PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
Monday, July 7. PETITIONS. The following petitions were received: - I’rom 42 miners and others at Manuka Creek (Mr G. I l '. C. Browne); from Richard M'Keay, Lawrence Creek, Tapanui (the Hon. Ur Menzies); from owners and occupiers of laud at Makerewa (Mr Wilson) ; from owners and occupiers of land at Port Chalmers, in reference to the completion of the main road line from the northern district (Mr M'Glashan); from Mr James Stuart, Bannockburn (Mr M‘Kellar); from settlers at Awamoko (2) (Dr Webster); from Mr Andrew Thomson, Hawksbury, for redress of grievances (Mr Stout). PHICE OF LAND IN SOUTHLAND. Mr Tolmie moved that his Honor’s Message No. 4 be taken into consideration, and with that object he proposed “That his Honor the Superintendent be requested to ask his Excellency the Governor to raise the price of land in the Southland district to GOs per acre, under tire provisions of the 26th section of the Southland Waste Lands Act of 1865, as recommended by his Honor the Superintendent.” He had been led to think that the members representing Southland wished to raise the price of land in their district to GOs per acre, and that he thought was a_ question requiring great con- / sideration ; for it it was raised to GOs, it might I t>'i s very difficult to reduce it at some future vyuine. Eor his own part, he was inclined to think that it should be raised to 40s only, which he thought would meet the object they had in view. It was for the Southland members to express their opinions on the matter, which they should do clearly and distinctly. If they thought the price should be raised to L 3, he would throw no obstacle in their way. It was a question requiring grave consideration whether or not they should rush to the extreme limit of L 3. His own opinion was that the increase of L2 would secure the object they all had in view. The Goldfields Secretary seconded the motion. At the request of the Southland members, the Speaker adjourned the Council for twenty minutes, to enable them to consult bn the subject. Mr Wood said that during the short adjournment the members for Southland had debated the matter, and had decided to recommend raising the price to GOs. No doubt at the next meeting of the Assembly the whole question would be dealt with, whether the price should remain at GOs per acre or not; in the meantime, if the Government consented that the price should be raised to GOs, it would serve the important purpose of preventing sacrificing the land by the wholesale alienation of large blocks, and so tying it up as to prevent settlement. He would, therefore, move the substitution of the figures GOs for 40s. Probably hereafter it might be found prudent to reduce it to 255, on condition of bona fide settlement, in quantities of 200 or 300 acres. Were the price raised to 40s, lie did not think it would stop the sale. Mr M'Kenzie seconded the amendment. There was little choice in the matter, as it must be 10s or 60s an acre, and although Mr Vogel, as bead of the Government, considered the increased price should bo permanent, if it were found sales were absolutely stopped, he thought the General Assembly would consent to a reduction. Mr Lumsdf.N supported the proposal. liaising the price of the land to L 5 per acre having been objected to, the next beat resource was to raise it to L 3 per acre. What was to be done must be done speedily ; and he thought it would be wise to adopt the amendment, and when passed he trusted the Government would not lose a moment m communicating to the officials in Southland that the price of the land had been raised under the authority of the General Government. Immense quantities of land would be taken up next day, unless the Government took action instanter; and from the tenor of the reply from the Government, the Provincial Government would be warranted in adopting the course he had suggested. Mr Daniel supported the amendment, as he was of opinion that the raising of the price of land to 40s would not have the effect of stopping capitalists from buying up immense tracts of country. The construction of light railways in that part of the district would lead to large purchases of land if something were not done to prevent it. He did not believe in setting aside {docks of land for selection on deferred payments. Mr CiTMMiNfi supported the amendment. Mr Reid felt in a great difficulty as to how he should vote upon the question. It appeared to him that the General Government were not very desirous of assisting in preventing laud from passing out of the hands of the Province. It was true they were told in the reply of the Premier (Mr Vogel) that the Government had been advised that it would not be in accordance with the intention of the Act to set aside reserves. It appearcd’to him that the reply received on this occasion was so emphatic as to lead to the conclusion that land has never boon reserved under the Southland Waste Lands Act; hut if the General Government had resolved that this reserve should not be made, and that the price of the laud should not be incrcasedas atemporary expedient, ho must either become a consenting party to selling the land to speculators and seeing it occupied by sheep, or to increasing the price so much as to interfere with bona fide settlement. He felt quite convinced that if the Council increased the price to (iOs per acre they would not get it reduced again at a very early date. Ho felt it difficult to decide whether it would not he better to support the proposal for raising the price to4os rather than GOs, seeing that there was no probability of speedily obtaining a reduction. A reduction might certainly be brought about, hut lie feared it would only be ! after a considerable length of time. He thought raising the price to GOs was playing into the [ hands of speculators. To secure the agricultu- % ,-al lands for the settlement of the people, the best solution of the difficulty would be to impose a tax upon all unimproved agricultural land. When he looked at the inducements held out by the neighbouring Colonies, to settlers—the Colony of Victoria, for instance, which offered 320 acres upon as favorable terms as we in this Colony could, with all the Colony to choose from—and compared this advantage with the circumscribed area to select from in this Colony; they were met by a want of support from the General Government, the ultimate success of whose policy depended upon tire peopling of the country. What prospect had they of competing successfully with the other Colonies, particularly with such a Colony as Victoria? What superior inducements were there in this part of the world that they should be so chary of their land ? Perhaps the climate was superior, hut in every other respect Victoria was in quite as favorable a position as New Zealand. He feared, therefore, he could support neither the motion nor the amendment. He should feel disposed to raise the price of the land to 1,5 per acre, and if the General Government refused to disregard that proposition, they would be to blame for any results that followed. The Council ought to take steps to tax all agricultural land unimproved which had been alienated from the Crown. Mr Wilson considered the Council in the dark about the intentions both of the General and Provincial Governments, and he could not, therefore, support the motion of the Southland members, if it was intended to retain land at that price, though he was rather in fa\ or of increasing the price of the land to L 3 per acre. Mr Stout thought deliberation should be exercised before adopting the resolution, because if either the resolution or the amendment were passed, the result would be that an amendment of the Southland Waste I,amis Act would he asked for, and then there would come up claims for compensation, the same as the pastoral holders put forward when the Otago people wished to alter their Waste Lands Act. Of course the raising of the price to L 3 would necessitate an alteration of the Waste Lands Act, and unless the Government could suggest an alteration that would be safe, they should consider well before taking such a dangerous step. Seeing, however, that the matter was a very pressing one, he should support the amendment, so as to force an amendment of the law. The Hon. Dr Menzies explained that the applications at present before the Waste Land Board would have to he dealt with by the laws under which they were made. Nothing the Council could do would affect them. Further applications would be under the new conditions. He thought by raising the price to 60s rather than -10s less difficulty would be experienced in getting it reduced.
Mr M'Glashan supported the amendment, on the understanding that the price should be altered at some future time. Mr Tolmie stated that the Government, having heard the opinions expressed, would have no objection whatever to the alteration of the price from 40s per acre to 60s. The motion as amended was then put and earned, and Mr Tolmie announced that ho would? at once communicate the result to the General Government. The Provincial Secretary said the Government had no objection whatever to the words "sixty shillings" being inserted, in deference to the decision arrived at by the hon. members from the Southland district. The Government was only too anxious to co-operate with the Coun oil for the settlement of the land question iu Southland, so as to put an end to the alienation of the laud in large blocks. Speaking as a member of another branch of the Legislature, he would give all the assistance that lay in his power to bring about a more satisfactory state of matters. He agreed with the Southland members in thinking that 60s would be more likely to leave the matter open for further legislation than if the price were fixed at 40s. The motion as amended .was then put and carried. questions. The following answers were given by Government :—That the main north and the northern interior roads had been provided for in the Estimates ; and as soon as these Estimates were passed, the works would be proceeded with. — That the construction of a railway from Dunedin to Moeraki was under consideration, and the Government would be prepared to bring down a Message in reference to the matter. — That the Government would pass a Municipal Amendment Ordinance, recognising it as a principle incumbent upon them before handing over main roads, to have them put in a proper state of repair, and provision for this purpose had been made in the Estimates that would be brought down.—Government had no intention l to place a sum of money on the Estimates to I make the track passable leading from the Beaui mont to Tapanui, through the Gorge. To make be a passable track, from L 3,000 to L 4,000 would required ; and fcr one fit for buggv traffic, from LIO.OOO to L 12,000 would be required. The Government did not think they were justified in incurring that expenditure.—That since it had been found that a proper lease of that portion of run 48 which is included in the Traquair Hundred had not been taken when the compensation was paid to the runholder, it had been found impossible, owing to the business engagements of the parties concerned, to get the defect remedied. The Government was at present in communication with those parties—That Government had taken steps with the view of establishing bottle works on a satisfactory basis. They had exacted a bond from the parties to whom the bonus was awarded for the due fulfilment of their obligations.—That the Government was ignorant of the fact that it was absolutely necessary to construct a branch railway from the Kaitangata coal-pits to the main trunk railway. It would, however, be a considerable time before trains were miming to the Clutha. When those trains were run, it would be time enough to make arrangements for this line. queexstowx grammar school. The Provincial Secretary moved that it is desirable to establish a Grammar School at Queenstown. Mr G. F. O. Browne objected to the proposal, and concluded his remarks by moving an amendment to that effect. After the question had been discussed, the motion was carried. The Superintendent's Message No. 2 recommending the appointment of MrW. Logic, as assessor, under the provisions of the 142 nd clause of the Waste Lands ActJtS72, was given effect to. On the motion of the Provincial Secretary it was resolved that an Address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent recommending that 43a. 2r., in the town of Invercargill, be set apart for purposes of recreation, for the use of the inhabitants of Invercargill. On the motion of the PROVINCIAL SECRETARY it was agreed that an Address lie presented to his Honor the Superintendent recommending that 275 a. 3r. 24p., section 10, block 3, Cromwell district, together with section numbeied 11, block 5, Wakefield district, be set apart as an endowment for the Cromwell Public Library. On the motion of the Secretary op Works, it was agreed that an Address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, recommending that section 17, block 111., Cromwell, be set apart for a Racecourse for the use of the inhabitants of Cromwell. The Secretary por Goldfields and Works moved—"lst. That it is expedient that the coal pits at Green Island should be connected with the Southern Trunk Railway by means of tramways or light railways, and that his Honor the Superintendent be requested to communicate with the General Government with a view to such branchlets being constructed in connection with the main line. ' "2nd. That in the event of the General Government declining to construct such branchlets, the sum of L 3,000 be placed on the Estimates for this purpose." Mr Stout considered that it was premature to pass this resolution, seeing that so many gaps remained to be tilled up in the main lines. Mr Allan explained the line would be about one mile in length, and the immediate result of its construction would be to provide a large acquisition to the traffic on the main line. Mr M'Ken/.ik understood the Government to say that a commission would be appointed to inquire into the merits of these branch lines or tramways. He hoped the Government would carry out that intention, and bring down only such lines as were found to be payable. He suggested the motion should be withdrawn. Mr lIEID agreed as to the desirability of getting further information. He would, moreover, suggest that it should be an instruction to the Engineer to consider the propriety of bringing in the line in such a way that all the pits would get equal advantage from it. The Council adjourned without any decision having been arrived at. On resuming, Mr Stout rose to move the following motion: —" That this Council is of opinion that the Executive is deserving of the gravest censure for not officially transmitting to the Waste Land Board the resolution of the Council recommending the postponement of the consideration of the sale of land in the Maerewhenua district, applied for by the Hon. Robert Campbell; and for not urging and advising, through the leader of the Executive, who is a member of, and representative of the Executive at the said Board, the postponement of the consideration of the said sale, as recommended by this Council." After tracing the history of the sale from its initiation to its completion, the hon. member went on to say that after the sale was concluded on Thursday last he placed himself in telegraphic communication with the miners' associations throughout tlie Province, and asked their opinion in reference to this alienation of auriferous land. He was glad to say that those associations he had communicated with had come forward boldly and denounced the sale ; and also protested against it. (The hon. member read telegrams from Mount Ida, Clyde, and Arrow.) This was not a matter whether 5,000 or 10,000 acres should be sold on the Maerewhenua district, because if that were so the miners' associations at Naseby, the Arrow, and the Dunstan, not being personally interested, would not have come forward so boldly and taken the stand they did ; they did so, because they desired to see the public interest throughout the Province conserved, and to conserve that, they would do all they could, notwithstanding the action of any Executive that might be in power. It was not very creditable to us as a Province that it should be left to miners' associations to see that public interests were conserved, and to look after the due administration of the public estate. He would next deal with the excuses that would be put forward in reference to the sale. The first excuse would be that the Government was bound to sell. He failed to see that the Government was bound to sell; the application to the Board being neither a binding agreement nor arrangement. Underthe Goldfields or Waste Lands Act of 1566, he did not care which, the land need not have been sold ; and was it not the fact that, under the new Land Act, the Superintendent had reserved land, the Board agreeing with that reservation? And even if the Government did not think there was ample power under the new Act, the Act of ISG6 gave the
Board power to refuse to grant the application, if it were prejudicial to the public interests. But hon. members would see that this application was not made under the Act of 1872, the only clause of which having reference to it was the 19th, which declared that all applications received under a prior Act should be decided according to the Act under which the application was made. Now, so far as the Waste Land Board and the Government were concerned, there was nothing in the papers laid upon the table to show that the Province was bound to sell; nor did he see how any hon. member could get up and say that the Government were bound to sell. He would assume that the Government were bound to sell. He would grant the hon. member opposite that point; still he said he was worthy of the gravest censure, as ifhe had not been bound to sell. And for these reasons, let hon. members look at the position in which the Council was placed. If the Government were bound to sell, why the trouble and expense of sending Messrs Shepherd and M'Kerrow to report upon the land ? (Hear.) Secondly, he wanted to know why the miners and miners' associations were deluded into the belief that their opposition might be successful if they were persistent in it, and only showed good grounds for it.—(MrßEin: Hear.") If the Government were bound to sell, why did they not come down to the Council when the member for Waitaki proposed his motion: — " Hon members may pass what resolutions they like, but the Government is in honor bound to sell this land, and wo cannot take cognisance of any resolution the Council come to." If they had done that, it would have been manly and straightforward; and it might have been put forward as some excuse for their strange conduct on this occasion. But not one word was said. Not only did they not oppose the resolution, but they actually consented to the suspension of the Standing Orders, the resolution passing without the slightest delay. If the Government was bound to sell, how did it happen that up to _ that time not one single word of explanation had been vouchsafed by the gentlemen on the benches ? Why did they not come forward after the sale on Thursday, and say to the Council: "We regret we cannot cany out the decision come to on Wednesday; the fact was we were hound to sell, and therefore did sell; we are very sorry for having had to do so." Instead of coming down with any explanation, the Government actually refused to answer questions in reference to the sale, except they appeared on the Order Paper. That was the way the Executive treated the Council. Another excuse would be that, even if there was not a binding agreement, it would have been breaking faith with Mr Campbell not to have sold. How was it, then, that up to that time the Council had not heard a single word about that ? Why was not the Council told it, when the member for the Waitaki proposed his motion on the day after, or on the night of the sale? If members were going to judge this question from a moral point of view—if the morality of the transaction was to be considered, he would like to know if the Province was not to be considered ? The miners had just as good a claim on the Government as the Hon. Robert Campbell. If the Government was in honor bound to sell, they were, at the same time, in honor bound to see that the interests of the district were not sacrificed ; and that no auri ferous land should be sold. He left it to the Government and the Council to say which was the more binding. As another excuse, it might be said that the constitution of the Waste Land Board was to blame, and therefore the Government could not help the sale. It was not necessary to go into that question. In the gentlemen forming the non-political element of the Board, the Council had every confidence.—(Hear.) Those members at first refused to sell, and if the political members of the Board —the leader of the Executive and the Chief Commissioner—had voted against the sale, it would have again been refused ; therefore the Government had no right to throw the blame on the non-political element of the Board. Another excuse would be that the Council had no power over the leader of the Executive, who was the member representing the Executive at the Land Board. That defence was entirely taken away by the action of the hon. member in the Council the other night when he stated that it was the intention of the Government to carry on the business of the country: ho said that he only held his seat on the Land Board so long as lie was Secretary for Lands : that when he ceased to be the one he ceased to be the other, therefore, it was absolutely necessary that he should have a s«at on the Board, in order that the Province might be properly represented there. So that so far as the hon. member was concerned he was not there as a non-political member, but as the representative of the Province supposed to carry out the resolutions of the Government and Council, And what did he do ? Instead of intimating to the Board what the request of the Council was ; instead of asking the Board to defer consideration of the question, he actually voted in favor of the sale. That in itself was, lie thought, sufficient to make new members vote for the motion, whatever their views on party questions might be. He could not understand the hon. member at the head of the Government doing this. If the Council had passed a strong resolution, saying, "we repudiate this transaction entirely ; we decide that there shall be no sale of this land," there might have been some reason for the hon. member voting for the sale. The Council did not desire to repudiate, but merely desired that there should be further inquiry and report, and only asked that consideration of the sale should be postponed. That was a request which almost any Board, or any Executive, would have been bound to have acceeded to. What possible reason could the Executive give for not acceding to the reasonable request of the Council for further inquiry ? Was it not the fact that the land had been open the whole year, and could it be said that the further delay of a week or a month would have been an injury to Mr Campbell, the Province, or anyone at all ? Why did the Executive not allow a select committee of the Council to consider the question ? Because they knew that the sale was wholly untenable. The policy or impolicy of the sale had nothing to do with the question ; it might have been a good or a bad sale ; but the Council was neither asked nor called upon to decide that. The Executive had assented to a thing one day; and done the very opposite the next. Was the Council going to sanction that! If that wore to be the case, the ('ouncil would at once become mere registering machine. In fact, that was the position the Government had taken up. Ever since the session began, there was hardly a question that came before the House, but no sooner diil the Government see that the majority were in favor of it than they got up and said they assented to it. Indeed they could not get the Government to disent from anything. There never was on those Benches before an Executive so pliant and so ready to do everything that everybody or anybody wished. That was a reason why the motion should be carried, because the Council should let the Executive know that it would not do for an Executive to agree to anything they were asked one day, and the next day do the very opposite. That was a kind of action which the ('ouncil, if it had any sense of its own dignity, could never consent to. The hon. member next proceeded to argue that the land sold was auriferous, and, referring to Mr M'Kerrow's report on the subject, said that however talented a person might be it was impossible that he could properly prospect 10,000 acres in about eleven hours. Still that gentleman proved that with imperfect prospecting gold was scattered over the land, and, in view of that fact, he recommended that the application should be either refused or granted intact. In the face of that report, in the face of the existence of 1,000 acres of auriferous land, in the face of the recommendation that the application either be granted intact or not at all —could it be said the Government were bound to sell when the memorandum that was annexed when the first application was put in expressly stated that no auriferous land should be sold? But there were other reasons against the sale, for not only was the land auriferous and fit for agricultural purposes, but within a few miles of it there was to be a railway constructed, and it had been intended to move that a railway should go right through it, and which, in consequence of the level character of the land, could be made at a small cost; so that not only was the land fit for settlement, and auriferous, but from the fact that railway construction was to go on there, the land would sell, not at LI per acre, but L 3 or L 4 per acre. It had been said that the motion which lie (Mr Stout) had moved was really a vote of want of confidence motion, He did not care whether it
resulted in the retirement of the Government or not. He did not wish the Council to look at it wholly in that light, but more particularly that if the motion were not carried it would form a bad precedent, for then they would be simply endorsing the conduct of the Government in acting in direct opposition to the wish of the Council. The Provincial Secretary : I feel that I am pretty well on my trial; at the same time, before I proceed any further, I must compliment the last speaker on the very temperate and polite language, which he used on the present occasion. I think, Sir, the speech he has just given utterance to should be held as a model of temperance and good feeling; and although he hit me pretty hard in many ways, he tried to do so in a manner which I thought gave no offence whatever. If the remarks of some hon. members during the past week, on several matters of discussion, had been made in the same spirit, I think the temper of this House would be far better than it is. But, Sir, with regard the to question at issue, which I take to be that censure should be passed upon myself as the head of the Government, and as a member of the Waste Land Board, for not transmitting to that body the resolution passed by this Council.--(Mr Reid : "No.") —well, Sir, before I proceed any further, let me say, with regard to my colleagues who sit with me on these benches, that the charge of blame being attachable to them, is unfounded, because they took a different view of the case to what I did. Before I took my seat at the Waste Land Board on Thursday, my colleagues recommended me to urge a postponement. Well, gentlemen, I thought differently; and though i thought differently from them, I am yet unconvinced that I thought wrongly. I assert and maintain that, when I took my seat at that Board I threw aside all politics, and being placed in a judicial position, was as free in that position as any other member of that Board. With regard to the case itself, it had been postponed from time to time; and it was arranged at a prior hearing of the case, that it should be finally settled on July 3. —(Mr Stout : " No.") I can assure you that it was the case, and based upon that understanding, Mr M'Kerrow, the surveyor, was sent up to report upon that portion of the ground which had not previously been reported upon. But I must return to preliminaries. Now, with regard to the sale of this block of land : I mean the first sale. Hon. members will please bear in mind I am not here as the advocate of this sale ; on the contrary, I think it was a mistake. —(Hear.) But is there any hon. member who will say that a transaction gone into honorably and straightforwardly by two men—the one to purchase, the other to sell—is not to be carried out ? I would also point out the very absurd and anomalous position the purchaser was placed in in regard to this transaction: he was invited to surrender his lease over a certain block of ground, and he was further informed that he should become purchaser of the ground ; and also that if any other person should tender for the same ground during the time the lease was in suspense, and the plans being received, which is generally twenty-four hours, the whole transaction should be cancelled. This is a statement which I am prepared to substantiate. The peculiarity about this matter is that any member of a Government who holds a position on the Land Board should bring up the matter before the Board, which consisted only of himself and another member ; for hon. members will observe that, on the 10th July, when the first meeting was held, there were present the late Mr Hughes, the member then at the head of the Government, and Mr Thomson, the Chief Commissioner—the latter not voting; therefore the House will see that actually there were only two members on the Board. On the following day, the 11th, the same process was gone through, and the same gentlemen being present, the land was actually sold. (Mr REID : " No.") It will be interesting to hon. members to have another view of the question. I made it my business, not being cognisant with the circumstances, previous to taking my seat at the Board, to obtain a statement from the purchaser, giving his view of the case. I received it this morning, and with the consent of the House will read portions of it. This statement is his version of how the transaction came about. Mr Campbell's explanation commences by stating that the Provincial Council, in its session of 1572, authorised the Provincial Government to sell an area not exceeding 50,000 acres, in blocks of not less than 10,000 acres, at a price not less than 20s per. acre. In pursuance of this authority, the Provincial Government entered into negotiations with Mr Campbell for the sale to him of 10,000 acres on bis runs IS os. 17 and 28, and these negotiations resulted in a letter from the Provincial Secretary to Mr Campbell, dated 10th July, 1872, agreeing to Mr Campbell's offer, made at the suggestion of Mr Reid, to allow the sale of an area of that extent, and requesting Mr Campbell to consent to the suppression of his lease over the land agreed to be sold. In reply to this request, Mr C !amj ibell, in a letter of the same date, consented to the suspension of his lease over the land agreed on. After Mr Campbell, in a personal interview with Mr Reid, had agreed to such suspension and cancellation, it occurred to him that he ought to guard himself against his property passing away without receiving some assurance from the Government that, in the event of his not becoming the purchaser, the matter should be restored to its original position. On mentioning this to Mr Reid, he assured Mr Campbell that in the event of anyone putting in an application for the land, all the documents connected therewith should be cancelled, and he be reinstated in his original position, the understanding being that Mr (. 'ampbell should become the purchaser of the block at the upset price of 20s per acre. Mr Campbell's letter was considered at a meeting of the Waste Land Board, held the same day, and it was then agreed to open the land for application under Sections 83 and 123 of the Waste Lands Act, 1866, and Mr Campbell formally applied to purchase the land. On the following day, 11th July, Mr Campbell's Application was brought before a special meeting of the Board, and it was resolved that the application should be received and registered: the survey to be made by the applicant, the surveyor to be approved, and the right to rereserve such lands as might bo found to be auriferous or necessary for public purposes. I would direct the attention of members to this explanation of what was meant by the term "public purposes." With reference to the words used—"public purposes " —the late Mr Hughes, then a member of the Board, asked what this term meant. Mr Reid replied that he meant by this term reserves for roads that might be found ncces- : sary, water races, Sec. Mr Reid also assured Mr Campbell that nothing would be reserved except as above, unless the land were found to be payably auriferous, and occupied for goldmining purposes. Since these, negotiations were commenced, now twelve months ago, not one acre of the original purchase has been occupied for gold-mining purposes, and this notwithstanding the constant and reiterated assurances to the contrary by those who have agitated on this question. The question arises— Why, if it is such rich auriferous land, the miners have not applied for it? The Government had agreed to allow Mr Campbell ]() per cent, in land for survey of the block ; and on the 18th September, 1872, Mr Campbell rej quested that the percentage area allowed for I :survey should be surveyed in a position to be i mutually agreed on between himself and the Board. The Board approved of the position of the area allowed for survey as sketched on the plan attached to the application. Subsequently to this, in September, 1872, an agitation was got up against the sale of a portion of the land, on the ground that it was auriferous, and the Waste I/and Board resolved to refer the matter to the Government for their consideration, so that they might take proper measures for obtaining local information, and a Commission was appointed to report. That report was i to the effect that a portion of the land included in the application was auriferous, and it was recommended that it should be reserved. The Government, acting on the report and suggestions of the Commissioners, again entered into negotiations with Mr Campbell on the subject; and it was finally agreed that about 5,000 acres on the south of the application should be reserved, and a corresponding area on the north of the application sold to Mr Campbell, in lieu of the part reserved. This agreement was submitted by the Government to the Waste Land Board on December 31, 1872, and it was . ,resolved to amend the application of the
Hon. Robert Campbell for 10,000 acres in the Maerewhenua district. That piece of the area surveyed south of a line from Black Hill through Trig. Station H was refused, and about an equal area north of the original application added to it. in accordance with a sketch approved by the Government, produced. This was understood by both parties to be a final settlement of the question; all that remained to be done being the final approval of the plans by the Waste Land Board. Mr Campbell would only remark in conclusion that he cannot suppose, either the Government or the Waste Land Board will be censured for having honorably carried out an engagement entered into in behalf of the Province, and having thus avoided the injury to its credit which would have resulted from an attempt at repudiation: an attempt which, had it l>een made, would have certainly resulted in litigation, which, so far as Mr Campbell is concerned, would not have been allowed to __cease until he had sought to enforce his rights in every. Court in the Colony; and had he not succeeded in obtaining them in the Colony, then before the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. I shall explain to the House the reasons why, on the Ist of May, Mr Campbell's application was declined. His agent at that time pressed for a reply, and based upon the statement which I have just read, which was that there was a payable goldfield, the ground having been worked for the last few years, and for other reasons,such as the existence of acoalfield, &c. ,the Board declined to grant the application. On the following week the application was renewed, and the Board were of opinion that, in regard to the 5,000 acres that had been previously reported upon by the Commissioners, that might be granted; and with regard to the other 5,000 acres —that a report should be received as to the condition of the ground. Mr Campbell's agent again pressed for a reply. On that occasion the other Waste Land Board Commissioners voted against the application, for the simple reason that they did not know the particulars; while Mr Thomson and myself, being conversant with the particulars, voted in favor of it. After that application was again refused, Mr M'Kerrow was requested to go and report upon the ground for a second time, and upon that report, for the last time, the Board took action. And, Sir, in regard to this application : when the first objection was raised, the Government sent two Commissioners to report in reference to the nature of the locality, and they urged and arranged for striking off half the application. That having been done, all the people who opposed the sale up to this time seemed to be satisfied. One, a principal and most persistent objector to the sale, Mr Taylor, of Oamaru, refused to go on any further with his objection to the sale ; and others who had opposed the sale considered that their interests were conserved by striking off the 5,000 acres. But apart from that, the Government and the Board both considered that a contract had been entered into with Mr Campbell by the previous Government; and that it was an absolute necessity that it should be carried out, not on account of the sale itself, but as a matter of honor between one party and another. There was a solemn and proper contract made ; and it was the duty of the Government to see that that contract was carried out faithfully ami honorably. Of course I shall bow to the decision of the House, if it should think that I was wrong in endeavoring to do what I considered to be my duty. Permit me to say it would be a absurd thing to suppose that a contract entered into should not be carried out faithfully, though the attempts that were made from time to time to alter this transaction prove to my mind that fair dealing was hardly to be expected. I, therefore, think the course the Board took to be the only course tbey could take. They weighed the matter carefully and calmly, and then gave their decision that the purchaser was entitled to his land. They received no official intimation of the resolution of this Council, because no intimation was directed to the Government. The intimation was directed to the Superintendent of Otago, and was not transmitted to the Waste Land Board, for reasons which, to the Superintendent, are no doubt satisfactory. The Waste Land Board arrogate to themselves this position: they are independent of all Government whatever; they are in a judicial position, and, acting judicially, any matter that conies before them is dealt with in that manner. It is true that the Commissioners were aware of this resolution. I was particularly aware of' out, because I heard it from this place; but, as I have already said, as soon as I appeared on that Board, I threw away my political position, and to my mind I could act there as freely as any other member of the Board. I might have carried out the wishes of my colleagues, and it might have been a political move to have done so, but I took my stand as an independent man, and as an independent member of the Waste Land Board, bound to act according to my judgmentin both capacities ; and declined to resort to political moves. I might have trimmed my sails, and gone to the Board and said, "This is a political move, and wc must be careful. Don't act to-day ; let us push it off for a week, or until after the Council is over." If I had done that, then I might be lulled a political member of this Board. But I did not take that stand : I took a judicial view of the matter, and I am quite prepared to stand by the result. I consider that in taking the course I did I acted fairly and honorably ; but if the House thinks differently I cannot help it. It is not necessary to detain the House any longer. I have given my reasons for doing what I nave done; but whatever the House may think, I hope they will not visit my iniquity upon the beads of my colleagues, because they were innocent of it. Mr Reid : The hon. member has stated that a contract had been entered into between the Hon. Mr Campbell and the late Government that this land should be sold to him. Will he state the date of the contract, and will he produce any document that bears upon it? The Provincial Secretary : I cannot produce any further documentary evidence than is containedin the papers laid on the table. There is aletter from the Secretary of Lands agreeing to sell this land to Mr Campbell—" The Government having agreed to your offer to allow the sale of 10.000 acres of your runs"—and so forth. Mr K.EID : Allowed it to be sold? The Provincial Secretary : There are the Waste Land Board minutes, which will prove the sale to Mr Campbell. Mr REID: Will the hon. member refer to those minutes and find that proof ? The Provincial Secretary : On page 4 '• Received and registered. Applicant declared the purchaser." The application was signed, LI,OOO deposit paid, and a receipt was given for it. Hon. Major RICHA.RDSOS : I wish to ask the hon. member this question. He stated a short time ago that the Superintendent did not send the resolution of this Council to the Waste Land Board ; will he supplement the information which he has given to this Provincial Council by stating whether the Executive Government, as represented by the gentlemen on the benches, requested his Honor to send the resolution to the Hoard? The Provincial Secretary : I do not think it came before the Executive at all.—(Laughter). The Hon. Mr Bathgate condemned the conduct of the hon. member for Caversham for coming into that deliberative assembly as a member of it, to advocate a case upon which he was and bad been professionally engaged. Referring to the question at issue, be said it was not whether the land to Mr Campbell was auriferous or non-auriferous, but whether the Executive were deserving of the gravest censure for their conduct. But had the Eon. member for Caversham proved bis ease ? The Council might pass anything they liked; but tbey could not clothe the Executive of the day with power to enforce an illegal resolution of the Council. —(Hear.) There was in the correspondence this fact: that on July 10 Mr ('ampbell wrote bis first letter stating that he would allow 10,000 acres of his land to be sold, on consideratii in that lie received compensation. Would the Council believe that Mr Campbell would make sucha proposal as to surrender 10,000 acres of his run, if be bad not previously made a verbal agreement with the headof the Executive that lie was to lie allowed to purchase tho same ? There was no doubt about it. Mr Campbell himself states so ; and be (Mr Bathgate) defied contradiction of his assertion. Mr REU): I may state that there was no special agreement that Mr Campbell should be allowed to purchase. There was an understanding that, if the land were sold at all, it should be sold to Mr Campbell, There was no
special agreement. But it was specially agreed that if the land was proved to be auriferous, it should not be sold.—(Hear.) Mr Bathgate remarked that the explanation only made out exactly what he anticipated wa« the fact, viz., that, the head of the then Executive made a private verbal arrangement with Mr Campbell for the sale of this land. They had Mr Campbell stating so : that in consequence of that understanding, as it was called, he agreed that his lease should be suspended, and the land laidopenfor application. Then circumstances occurred which he had no hesitation in saying constituted such an agreement as Mr Campbell, by the aid of the law, could compel the Province to fulfil.—(Cries of "No.") He did not ask hon. members who cried "no" [so strongly to take his opinion, neither did he intend to take theirs, but he believed that by that memorandum Mr Campbell was advised by his counsel that it was in his power to enforce the fulfilment of the contract. Mr Cummtng alluded to the novelty of the position in which he was placed as a new member of Council. After listening to the remarks that had been made, the impression left on his mind was that the present was a much better Government than the Opposition was inclined to give them credit for being. With regard to the question more immediately before the House, it had not been proved to his mind that a mistake had been made by the head of the Government. For these and other reasons he would oppose the motion. Mr R. Clarke said that he had been connected to a great extent with miners' associations, and he was prepared to bear testimony to the fact that the alienation of auriferous land was a point upon which they felt very strongly. The Council had been informed by Mr Stout that he had been communicated with by those Associations. Had the members of those Associations had the papers now lying before members, they would have seen at a glance that die Government was not to be blamed for this transaction. Unless more convincing evidence against the Government was forthcoming than had yet been brought forward, he for one was prepard to record his vote in favor of the Government. —(Applause.) Mr Reid : When the members at the head of the Government rose to address the Council on this occasion, he stated that he felt he was being placed upon his trial. If that was really the case, I must say that he managed very cleverly to shift his ground and place me upon my trial. Well, I am quite prepared to meet the charges brought forward against me. I find the first statement made by him was that he hail been urged by his colleagues to agree to a postponement of this sale in order that further inquiry might be instituted, and that he would not agree to that course. I think it was a great pity he did not twenty-four hours' previously inform the Council of the stand he intended to take as a member of the Waste Land Board. Instead of bemg a consenting party to the resolutions as passed by the Council, if he, as a member of the Government, felt tbat the Province was in honor committed to the completion of this transaction, it was his duty to rise up in his place in the Council and say he would be no party to the postponement. It appears to me that the explanation made by him to-day is altogether a second thought. The high and independent feelings wdiich operated upon his mind ought to have been fully explained, and urged as a reason why the resolution should not be carried. He consented to that resolution in the Council, and then immediately afterwards he retires to his position at the Waste Land Board, where he feels that he must act independently, and accordingly he lays aside the movement in the Ceuncil and takes what he there conceives to be the more proper course—that of agreeingto the application. The other statement made by the hon. member I think requires refutation. He says that a bargain was entered into between two men that the Hon. Mr Campbell should be the purchaser: that bargain having been made between myself and Mr Campbell. It must be clearly understood that I do not rise to defend myself in this very serious matter. It was quite true that there was an understanding between Mr Campbell and myself, tbat if this land was sold he would be preferred as the purchaser. It was clearly understood that no other person was to lie allowed to come into Mr Campbell's lease ; but it did not follow that the land was to be sold, and that he would be the purchaser. On the very contrary, the resolutions passed by the Board went clearly against any such understanding, and ho (Mr Campbell) as clearly understood that if the land was found to bo auriferous, it was imperative on the Government to refuse the application. Mr Campbell was present at the Board meeting when that resolution was come to, and he could not possibly have been mistaken with regard to it, as he quite agreed in it. How, then, can it be said that a bargain was made between two men that the applicant should be the purchaser? Then the hon. member followed that statement by another assertion—that at that meeting of the Board the land was actually sold. A perusal of the resolutions I have now read will show him that such is not the case. An article in that morning's paper professed to show the position of matters. The writer stated that the applicant had been declared the purchaser. That was precisely the mistake into which the head of the Government had fallen. A perusal of the printed forms of application will show that it is the duty of the Board to receive and register these applications ; but it docs not follow that because they are obliged to do that, that the applicant is to be declared the purchaser. It was evidently owing to a misconception of this kind that some hon. members' minds had become impressed with the idea that the applicant was declared the purchaser, at the time the application was received. That was a fallacy, and I beg that they will have such an impression removed from their minds that this sale took effect, as the application was simply received and registered. The blank space left in the application had to be filled in and signed, which might be done months after, the application was received. In the case of unsurveyed land, the filling up and signing does not generally take place for a considerable period afterwards. We have had a statement before us, made by Mr Campbell, and I must say that that was a most unusual course to have followed. Besides being unusual, I look upon it as a most improper course for the hon. member at the head of the Government to follow. Mr ('ampbcll may have entertained one opinion on the point, and the members of the Board another. I for my part never at any time entertained any other opinion but that he (Mr Campbell) was to be the purchaser, if the land was soid to any one. My interpretation of the reservations made against the land being sold at all, was that they implied any roads that might be found necessary, laud found to be necessary for the construction of water races, or for the residences of those who might be engaged working the land. That was the opinion I expressed to the Board at the time. I state most distinctly that there was no contract between Mr Campbell and the late Government to sell any laud at all. On the very contrary, the Board reserved to itself the right to retain any land that might prove to be auriferous, or which might be required for public purposes. Having sold the land in the face of these facts, I consider the Government to be deserving of most severe censure. In answer to a question put by Mr Haorttt, the Provincial SECRETARY said the members of the Board were fully aware of the resolution having been passed by the Council. He went on to say : After I had left the Board, I observed from the public prints that the hon. member for the Clutha went to the meeting and inquired why this sale had taken place. He also asked the Board if the resolution had been placed before it. I understand lie was informed the resolution had not been forwarded to them, and that even although it_ bad been, they would have taken no notice of it. Mr HagGITI : Then that explanation decides my views upon the subject, if anything were wanting to do so. T could not believe for one moment that members of the Waste Land Board were ignorant of what took place in this Council, and that thoy were not fully aware of this resolution. I certainly approve of the conduct of the Board in declining to be guided in any shape or way by resolutions of this Council. That resolution this Council had no business to pass : it was entirely contrary to the intention of the Legislature, and entirely beyond the powers of the Council. T have only to refer hon. members to the Waste Land Acts of 1572, to show that these observations are strictly within the letter of the law. After quoting sections of the Act, he proceeded: I content myself by asserting, that it is, clearly intended
by the 6th section of the Act that neither tha Executive nor the Council has any right to interfere with the Waste Laud Board in its decisions. By the consent of the General Assembly the Council might pass resolutions regarding the waste lands, and if these were approved of they were framed into an Act by the Assembly. Still, the question must not be shirked tbat we have no further right to legislate upon the Waste Lands Act. I now coaie to the question before the Council, viz. : That the Executive is deserving of the gravest censure, &c. I was asked to do so because the leader of the Executive at his place on the Board did not urge the postponement of the sale. With regard to the first part of the resolution, the reply just made by the head of the Government is to my mind a sufficient reply. To come to the actual facts of the case. I have to congratulate the mover of the resolution on having made a very good case out of very trifling material. That hon. member is one of the most dangerous men in this House, simply because ho possesses the ability of being able to make it appear that black is white and white is black, in the most plausible manner. It might be said that I too had a personal interest in this matter, for, like Mr Stout, I have also been consulted professionally. I was consulted by Mr Campbell as to tins very sale before I became a member of Council, and I advised him thereupon. I trust, however, the Council will do ine the justice to be" lieve that I will not allow myself to be carried away by professional zeal in the matter. The hon. member who proposed the resolution assumed one thing necesary to make good his purpose. He assumed in the first place that the Board had the right to refuse to complete the sale. Second, that the Government had and might exercise an influence over the Board. Third, that a member of the Board being a member of the Executive, was bound to exercise his vote as the Council might direct. Some of these I have already answered, and as regards the rest, I will be able to prove that they are untenable. With regard to the proposition that a member of the Board, being a member of the Government, is bound to exercise his vote at the dictation of the Government, I hope there is no member in this House who would be found willing to place himself in such a despicable position. The other question, as to whether or not Government had a right to refuse this application, I am conscientious when I argue that they possessed no such right. The first question I will put to you is whether the application, as made by Campbell, does or does not bind him to purchase if the Board agreed to sell? He (Mr Campbell) was bound to purchase, or forfeit his deposit—forfeit a sum of LI,OOO sterling. Now, Sir, what does the Board say ? They said, agreed; application received and registered, with right to reserve the whole land? No, nothing of the kind ; but simply to reserve such of the land as may be found to be auriferous, or found to be required for public purposes. There is the contract at once. —(Heai', hear.) The right of reservation simply applied to such land as might prove to be auriferous. That is the only right retained in the hands of the Board. The Board, therefore, bound itself to grant Mr Campbell something. What then was it bound to giant? It was bound under the resolution of this Council to grant him not leBS than 10,000 acres: that was the smallest amount the Board could grant. The next point alluded to was the character of the ground. Sufficient time had been allowed to test the question as to whether or not the ground was really auriferous. Some three specks of gold were found in a tin dish, after the parties had been at work for a whole day. That could not be called auriferous laud, seeing that the whole country was more or less auriferous. Twelve months had elapsed, and that was sufficient time to decide the question as to whether or not the ground was auriferous. The miners had asserted that the ground was auriferous, but they contented themselves simply with that assertion. They did not think it worth their while to take the trouble of testing whether it really was or was not. I will go a step further and say that they actually misled the Board in regard to this land. It was represented a.s containing a valuable coal mine, whereas the fact was that the coal mine was eight miles distant from the land. Eor these anil other reasons, I shall voto against the motion. The Hon. Major Richardson' spoke in favor of the motion, and Mr De LatoUß against it. Mr M'Kki.lak moved the adjournment till next day, which, after debate, was agreed to. Tuesday, July 8. The SPEAKER took the chair at 2 o'clock. On the minutes Wing read, the SPEAKER pointed to the omission of a request by the Hon. Major Richardson to be allowed to interpose a question to Mr ('liver during the course of the debate on Mr Stout's motion. Major Richardson wished to know the name of the person who authorised him to say that the pupils of the Girls' High School had signed the petition presented by the Major without the knowledge and consent of their parents. He asked permission of the House to amend tha minutes. The minutes having been amended, Mr OLIVRE said he was informed personally of the matter for the first time, but not seeing the bun. member in his place, lie presumed he was unable to ask the question. Permission of the Council was unnecessary, as since the discussion took place he gave Major Richardson the name. Had he been there to receive his reply, he should have told him also of several other gentleman, parents of children whose signatures appeared, who approved of the action taken by him (Mr Oliver), and that bis statements were correct. PETITION From the Trustees and Committee of Management of the Otago Museum, praying the Council to take the subject of its maintenance into consideration ; and to adopt measures to forward the object of the institution. (Mr Clark.) REPORT. Mr Hazlett brought up Interim Report No. 1 of the Select Committee on Private Petitions on the petition of Henry Hirst, as follows : " Your (lominittce has to report careful consideration by it of this petition, and that owing to the liberal manner in which the petitioner permitted the construction of water races through his run, prior to its being proclaimed a (ioldneld, and the losses sustained byhiminconsequence, the Committee has agreed to the following resolution, viz:—'To recommend that the Government allow petitioner to take up plans of his pre-emptive right not required for the township outside of dotted line marked in tracing No. 293, at the upset price of 12s (id per acre, on the deferred system of payments.'"' John L. Gillies, Chairman. Dunedin, July Mb, 1573. Mr Li'Msdkn, without notice, asked whether any reply had been received to the communication to the Government respecting the Southland land sales. The Provincial Secretary replied that no reply had been received up to Lot) p.m. ; but a few minutes afterwards a telegram was placed in his hands, which he read to the House as follows :—"Order in Council re Southland lands prepared—will be passed to-morrow morning. Please send copy of resolution." QUESTION'S. The following answers to questions were given : Government had laid upon the tilde a return showing the expenditure in the Peninsula and Cavershara Provincial Electoral Districts respectively, for roads, during the past financial year. —lt was true that session before last a resolution was passed recommending an endowment of the Oainaru Mechanics' Institute of 500 acres of land; but there had been no further communication on the part of the promoters, and the Government were waiting for their moving in the matter.—The Government had received no further information than was given last session respecting the issue of Crown giants for educational purposes, benevolent institutions, and hospitals. The Kxecntivc would gladly assist in obtaining them.— The Provincial Surveyor had not been on the Teviot yet, to form an estimate of the probable cost of a reservoir at the head. It was the intention of the Executive to send him as soon as he had time to spare.—-The Executive were not aware that the settlers were mending the Pine Hill road with logs of wood and pieces of fern trees. On notice of the question having been given, be sent instructions to the Engineer to report upon the matter, and would be able, to report the next day. To a second question, theGovernment had madeno provision fur carrying the road through during the present financial year,—lt was almost impossible to get al|
documents, pap*r», telegrams, &o. (or certified copies of tho same) that in any way refer to the taking of land or road lines, the construction, repair, alterations, maintenance, and the purchase of the Port Chalmers line of railway, together with any letters and telegrams that passed between the General and Provincial Governments respecting the taking over the management of the said line by the Provincial Government. They could he supplied more readily at the Government Offices than in the Council. The hon. member could adopt the alternative of moving for a Select Committee to inquiro into the matter.—Mr Green said if the Government would support him he would adopt that course.— THE MAEREWHENUA LAND SALE. Mr M'Kenzie, who said the question had been raised that the Land Board was not bound to regard a resolution of the Council ; but although that might be true, it was the duty of the Provincial Secretary to have urged upon them the wish of the Council. Not having done so, it was impossible to place confidence in a Government who, during ten months, might disregard the resolutions of the Council. When the Provincial Secretary allowed the resolution to pass, and refused to give effect to it, it was really saying the Executive knew better than the Council what were the interests of the country. It could not be supposed that a Select Committee with full evidence before them would bring up a report likely to involve the Province in an expensive law suit, or, if they did, the Council could throw it overboard. If the Province was committed to the sale, the Waste Land Board only discovered it after the sale had been declined. Mr Reid's letter did not commit them to the sale, and the Board had no right to take into consideration a verbal agreement. Although Mr Tolmie urged that his sins should not be visited on his colleagues, they could not be disassociated. Although Mr Haggitt said the Council had nothing to do with the waste lands of the Crown, not a day passed but resolutions were adopted dealing with them. He did not think it fair to blame Mr Reid for selling land in large blocks, when every member of the Council agreed to it. The Executive had done notliing for the Province, and had always opposed a liberal land law. They had not opened up hundreds for sale. It was plain that they were proposing to enrich a few individuals at the expense of tho country. Mr M'Kellar said the rumor that he intended to vote against the Government was correct, although the district he represented had been pretty well attended to by the present Executive, except in the matter of commonage. He believed they had to thank the Secretary for the Goldfields. ' Although Mr Haggitt assumed there waß a legal contract between tho Government and Mr Campbell, the papers laid before the Council demolished that proposition. No deposit had been paid on the application until the 7th October. Everythin" went on legally, to the 10th April, 1873. Mr Haggitt said Mr Campbell could compel the sale of the land to him, which amounted to Baying that Messrs Strode, Buttorworth, and Tolmie did not understand their business when they refused the application. In the whole debate not a word was said about the 9,000 or 10,000 interested in the matter. It was said that, had not the sale been confirmed, Mr Campbell might take the case to the Privy Council. Who was he, to presume to dictate to the Colony? He supposed it was on account of his wealth. When Mr Tolmie said he acted in the mattor as a member of the Waste Land Board, and not as one of the Executive, it was a proof that he could not serve two masters. Mr Davie, after having given full consideration to the terms of the motion, would vote against it. After the exhaustive manner in which the subject had been dealt with, he should consult the convenience of the House by making his remarks brief. Legal acumen and knowledgo had been brought to bear on the interpretation of the papers. For his part, ho had applied to them the test of common sense and business knowledge, and he considered there was in them what amounted to a contract, by which Mr Campbell was bound to buy and the Provincial Government was bound to sell 10,000 acres ' of the waste lands of the Crown, provided it was not auriferous in tho true sense of the term. After all that had been said, he had yet to learn that gold was to be found on the land sold, in sufficient quantities to warrant it being •withdrawn as auriferous land, and therefore the Waste Landßoardhadno alternative than to take the course adopted. With regard to the immediate character of the motion reflecting on the Executive, and especially on its head, he considered if any evil were attributable to him, it was that of being too straightforward for a politician. He might not possess the qualifications of a politician to the extent that some deemed desirable; but, in lieu of it, he brought to bear qualities quite as good—straightforwardness andhonesty. Had he mentioned the resolution of the Council at the Waste Land Board and there was nothing to prevent it, as a matter of policy, the Council could not have blamed him. He might then have gone back to the Council and said he had discharged his duty, and nothing more would have been heard of it. As it was, he seemed to have overlooked policy, and in his usual straightforward way confirmed the contract entered into by his predecessor. The Hon. Dr. Menzies considered, from examination of the papers before the House, that it might be fairly asked, when was the contract entered into ? He could not see that any agreement had been entered into beyond the usual application to purchase. Hr Haggitt said the contract was entered into on the 11th July, 1872. If so, the evidence of it should be embodied in those papers. He thought Mr Stout's admirable speech showed that on the 30th July there was no contract. But if a contract had been proved, it did not bear on the point at issue. It was not whether it was right or wrong, judicious or not, but whether, under the circumstances, tho action of the Government gave expression to the resolution of the Council. The Government, though r.bstaining from opposing the motion, became a party to it; but on the following day the Provincial Secretary attended a meeting of the Board, and voted for the motion confirming the purchase, That was what the Council ought to censure. He found no fault with the action of the Board, and saw nothing to find fault with as to the members of it. A political Board did not give satisfaction, and the Assembly had given much consideration to what its constitution should be. It finally took the shape of a judicial body, with a member of the Executive to represent the Government. The experience of its action would not justify approval or condemnation as yet. As a judicial body, strict adherence to law in its decisions should create no surprise. But there was an element in it ' which kept the Board informed of the policy of the Government, and Clause (>(> in the Waste Lands Act gave a discretionary power to the • Board to stay its proceedings at any stage of an application. The course, therefore, of a member of the Executive was clear, and tho Go- ' vornment must stand or fall by its action. If I the Council supported the Government, the i time would come when they would regret having done so. i i Mr M'Lean said that if the Government 1 were turned out, it would not be on the merits I of the question. There was a curious error in ' tho printed papers before them. It was this : ] Tho documents state " that the Hon. Mr Camp- ■ bell made his application on the 10th July, i 1872, and it was agreed to on the 11th July. ! The receipt for Land Revenue was dated 7th * October. He believed that had created an im- ' pressiou that there had been no contract, and if 1 those papers were correct he should not be of = opinion that there had been one. The vouchers < for the money had been kindly placed in his : hands by Mr Livingston, and, with the permij- t sion of the House, he might state that the 1 cheque he held in his hand was dated on the I day Mr Campbell made application—the 10th 1 July, 1872. This cheque was for LI,OOO. He i also held in his hand a voucher from the Re- i cciver of Land Revenue, dated the 11th July : \ " Received from the Hon. Robert Campbell, ( LI,000." If receiving a deposit of ten per cent c did not establish a contract, he did not know I what was necessary to constitute one. Mr Roberts was of opinion that the charge c against the Government had not been substau- s tiatect. 1 The Provincial Treasurer said at the time i the contract was entered into, the late Provin- b cial Secretary wanted money for public pur- v poses. He (Sir Turnbull) was in a positioi. to 1' say that the hon. gentleman not only sold the P laud in good faith, but that he chuckled over F making the bargain with other parties in search g of land. A survey was ordered which cost hj L3OO, and was in course of completion when I a
I a deputation came down, urging the propriety I of not completing the site. After the new Go.'emnient was formed, on the return of the members of Assembly from Wellington, they appointed a Commission to go into the whole qucs- ! tion of this block. That Commission consisted [ of Mr T. L. Shepherd—who was Bupposed to ! represent "the miners, and to be acquaiuted with I the nature of auriferous country—and Mr s M'Kerrow, of the Government Surreys, who ) was as competent a man perhaps as anyone they ) could have obtained for the purpose. ThatComs mission reported that a certain portion of the f land surveyed was auriferous, and they drew up 1 a fresh plan excluding that portion, and including another which they were satisfied was not auriferous, and theyadvisedthe Government thatif they \ I would adhere to that new plan, it would be for t the public interest. Of course, Mr Campbell . did not like to change the original boundaries, 3 but after some delay he consented to the lines j drawn by Messrs M'Kerrow and Shepherd. r That was a liberal act on the part of Mr Campg bell, because it was a much worse bargain for him. Nothing further was heard of the matter ' until the hon. member for Caversham appeared r on the scene after the appointment of the new 0 Waste Land Board. He believed that hon. r member visited the district and succeeded in . convincing the miners that they would sufj fer — 3 Mr Stout : May I be allowed to explain that, j I did not visit the Maerewhenua Goldfield in B reference to this matter at all. j Mr Turnbull said all that he could say was, . he appeared first before the Waste Land Board y as the representative of two persons in the dis- . trict. One, Mr Turner, afterwards intimated j that he was entirely satisfied, and that his name e would be no longer used as opposing the salt. . The new Waste Land Board apparently were 1 exceedingly cautious in the matter, and before t deciding they asked tho Government to again 3 send Mr M'Kerrow to the scene. He satisfied 3 them apparently that there was no auriferous s land within the block, and they then agreed te t the sale. Of course the Council had no power 1 over the Waste Land Board. They were there , in a judicial capacity to do what they thought , was right. The Government did not wish to . shirk any responsibility on account of Mr [ Tolmie not opposing the sale. The Government , would stand or fall by that hon. gentleman. It t was nonsense to say they did not know of the resolution of the Council, on the contrary, one of . the members stated they did not care two pins . for it. 1 Messrs Wood and Sumpter supported the ; motion. ' Mr M'Glashan opposed it. Mr FISH contended that an impartial jury ; would give the Government an unanimous ver- , diet of acquittal. First, had the Province been , committed to a sale of this land? He sub- . mitted that it had been fully proved that there . was a bargain between the Hon. Mr Campbell , and Mr Reid, which the Province in honor and ; in law—but if not legally, certainly in honor—- , was bound to carry out. He supposed the sale , to have been brought about this wise. The [ member for the Taieri (Mr Reid) sent for Mr Campbell to his office, and told him that the , Government, of which he was then head, was . willing to sell him this 10,000 acres, or put it . up for sale in such a way as would secure him . becoming the purchaser Mr Reid : Might I ask the hon. member to . repeat his statement ? Mr Fish was only putting a suppositious case. If the member for the Taieri was prepared to have tho case investigated, he was prepared to prove that the suppositious case was the actual fact. _ Mr Reid: I am quite prepared to have it investigated. I demand that it should be. Mr Fish remarked that tiie other side had argued as a corroboration of their contention that there was no sale; that Mr Campbell's cheque for LI.OOO, the amount of the deposit, was not paid till the end of October. Now be (Mr Fish) had it from Mr Campbell himself that the deposit money was paid into the Government coffers on July 10, the same day the application was made. Was it likely that he would have paid that money if there had been no agreement between Mr Reid and himself that he was to be the purchaser of the land. He (Mr Fish) honestly believed Mr Campbell was led by Mr Reid to believe that tho land should be his. He did not say Mr Reid was to blame. The necessities of tho Province forced him into that position; but he blamed him for n )t coining down boldly and stating the facts. Next, was the land payably auriferous ? He asserted, upon the evidence of the documents produced, and upon the evidence of the hon. member for Mount Ida (Mr De Lautour), who had been over the ground, that it was not payably auriferous. Then, was the sale a good one ? Had he to decide the question now lie should say it was a bad one; but had he been asked the question twelve months ago, when the sale was made, and taking into consideration the financial difficulties, and the fact that it had been agreed to sell 10,000 acres he would have said unhesitatingly the sale was a good one. Was the Government deserving of censure for not transmitting the resolutions of the hon. member, Mr Sumpter, to the Waste Land Board ? He said that when he recollected that the resolutions were practically convey oil to the Board through the medium of the Pre :s from which they could glean as much information as from fifty official documents; also, that the case had been argued by the learned counsel (Mr Stout) for the petitioners, he considered it was idle to say the Board would have done anything, even had they had fifty resolutions liefore them. Indeed, one of the members of the Board said they would not have taken notice of the Council's resolutions. Mr Shand, having referred to his action when connected with the Reid Government duriu°their absence in Wellington, refeirel to the motion which he brought down to the House a few days ago, and on which he was defeated. Perhaps, he said, he was a little indiscreet in the matter; but he did not wish to move the motion when he did, and his reason for ultimately moving it was because he was threatened by the Hon. Major Richardson that if he did so, he (Major Richardson) would leave the Council Hall, never to return. He thought ho was just as good and as independent a member as the honorable and gallant gentleman. When that hon. gentleman walked past him with ids grand and stately bearing, it came to his mind that he was the bell-wether of the flock—(laughter)—and there was the flock creeping behind him. He wondered that his colleague, the member, was able to go out at all. It was just five years ago since he (Mr Shand) was first returned, and on that occasion both his colleagues voted against him ; indeed, Mr Allan used all the influence of his family against him, but he could not keep him back. He felt that he had a duty to perform towards his constituents, and though he had been absent from the House for a few days, he had come back refreshed for he I la would do his duty as a member for tho Taieri, and claimed now to be an independent member: not allied to any side; and he should take good care not to ally himself to any party till he saw a good Government on the benches. He owed a duty to his constituents ; and when he went back after the session he would hold meetings throughout the district' and leave it to the electors to say whether he did wrong or not. If they disapproved of his conduct they could call upon him to resign. Now, he did not believe in the resolution of the member for Caversham; it was by no means so good as the motion he himself moved, which there was no mistaking, Mr Stout's motion ' was a legal quibble. He (Mr Shand) would ' keep dark what he was going to do on the pre- ) sent occasion—(laughter);—he was not going to 1 commit himself. He thought that instead of ' a lot of private individuals being left to discuss ] the question, it would have been better for a I body of lawyers to have done it. When he (Mr i Shand) came into that House five years ago, he 1 found'that his vote was of very great service : ( it was the deciding vote, and by means of it the ( member for the Taieri had gained the leadership i which he had continued to hold till now. He 1 (Mr Shand) had his reward on Friday ; but he f dared say lie would yet he even with the mem- < ber foi the Taieri.—(Laughter and cheers.) He I was annoyed that it should have been left for s one on the Government side of the House to f second his motion; he only wished he could a have entrapped one of the party into seconding t it—though he would never be at a loss for on;— ) because his hon. friend on the left (l)r Wcbf- : 'er t would second any motion of his. When he mx 1 left to go to a division, he believed one of the I party was left with him—the member for Tua- f! peka (Mrßrown)- but he would have taken very hj good care not to have gone to a division with s him.—(Loud laughter.) He would have voted d against the motion himself, and Jeft the hpn, e
member for Tuapeka to go to the member for the Taieri (Mr Reid), because their natures were much more alike.—(Loud laughter.) With these few remarks he would sit down ; and he would take a perfectly free and independent course during this session.—(Cheers and laughter.) Mr Stout, having replied to the various arguments used against his motion, said that there were other matters besides the sale of this Maerewhenua block in which the Government had not shown that it looked af ler the public interests. It was announced on the previous day that a telegram would bo at once sent to th» Premier; and that before any new applications for Southland land would be received by the Waste Land Board at Invercargill, the price would be at once raised to L 3 per acre. But, through some blundering or other, what happened?- He held in his hand a telegram from Southland, stating that that day the Lan Office was crowded with applications amount ing to 20,000 acres. Mr Turton said that before the motion was put to the vote he might be allowed to explain, on behalf of the Government, that the resolution come to by the Council on the previous day, with regard to the price of land in Southland, was communicated by the head of the Government to the Government in Wellington, immediately after the resolution was passed. The reply received this day was to the effect i—" An Order in Council, re land in Southland, probably will be passed in Council to-morrow morning. Please send literal copy of the resolution." The House then divided, with the following result: — Ayes, 17: Messrs Allan, H. Clark, Green, Hallenstein, Ireland, Kinross, Lumsden, Menzies, Mollison M'Kellar, M'Kenzie, M'Neil, Eeid (teller), Stout (teller), Sumpter, Wilson, Wood. Noes 23: Messrs Bastings, G. F. C. Browne, R. Clarke (teller), Cumming, Daniel, Davie, Delatour (teller), Driver, Fish, Haggitt, Hazlett, Mills, M'Dermid, M'Glashan, M'Lean, Oliver, Roberts, Rogers, Teschemaker, Tolmie, Turnbull, Turton, Webster. Paiks.— For the motion: The Hon. Major Richardson and Mr J. 0. Brown. Against it: The Hon. Mr Reynolds, and the Hon. Mr Bathgate. Thus it will be seen that there was a full House, Mr Slnmd being the only member who did not vote. The result of the division was received with loud cheers and a few hisses from some occupants of the gallery.
Wednesday, July 9. T PRIVATE PETITIONS, * The Private Petitions Committee reported:— a (!•) In reference to Richard Mackay’s petition, J recommending the Council to grant a lease of . five acres of land to the petitioner, care to be taken that the public road, &c., was not inter- ‘ fered with. (2.) In reference to Warden Beel tham’s petition, that the petitioner should be ' recouped his expenses in defending himself from the charges made in the Chinese petition ; ' that the bill of costs should be taxed by the ’ Provincial Solicitor; and the committee drew J attention to the heavy expense and loss that were often entailed on the Province, becamse of the indiscriminate presentation of petitions on ) matters which ought first to be made subjects of Executive investigation and action. * GOVERNMENT EXPLANATION. , The Provincial Secretary rose and : said; * Before proceeding with any of the busines is on the Order Paper, I wish to read to the Ho use a . Message which was received from the Premier last night. This message is in reply to : % re- , quest by the Government as to whether? the L application made for land in Southland yesterday, could be made retrospective in regal’d to * the resolution passed by this Council the other night, or whether the Order in Council, \ diich * it is supposed was passed to-day, coni d be , applicable to applications prior or subsen [uent ’ to the passing of the resolutions of this Coi incil. ’ Tim reply to that is : “ The Government are ! advised that it is quite impossible that any order in Council can be made retrospective therefore it seems that the Order in Council which, I have no doubt, was p ossed to-day, though we have not yet heard of it, will be the first check of a monopoly of land in. the : Province of Southland. I have to make another statement, and it is a statement which applies to myself and to the other members of the Government._ I am sure that the Hiouse will give me a patient hearing while making the few remarks l am about to make, especiall .y as in all probability the present occasion i s the last on which I shall address the House from these benches. I may at once inform this House that my resignation is in the ban ,ds of his Honor the Superintendent. I told this House when wc met about seven or eight days ago, that as the session progressed, I should I find it to be my duty to retire from the honorable position in which I am at present pi aced, and I have adhered to this resolution. My resignation is in the hands of his Honor. I think it is a fitting time to make a few remarks in reference to my* conduct in the past, and during this session in. particular. I am sure that hon. members will, give me some little credit if I state what my views were in taking the prominent position I have done in the administration of the Province during the past eight months. It was very much against my will and inclination that I w: is induced to accept the honourable position > vhich I held during the late Provincial Council, and prior thereto. It was forced upon me b y circumstances over which I had no control, a nd I may go so far as to say, that on my acce; oting office, I did so at very great personal incon vein-, ence, and probably at personal loss. And now I am satisfied that the result has been as i t is. I went in with a view of using what little i nfluenco and power I might possess to check wl latl considered to be a Government of prejudice, and not a Government of reason. I wished to • see introduced into the Councils of this com itry more reason and less prejudice. I wished to. see the men who occupied a prominent positioi i at liberty to express their opinions freely and fully, and not be forced into positions wl lich they themselves would not occupy were t hey allowed to use their calm judgment upon th em. I especially refer to this in the case of my fri end the late Provincial Secretary—the member for the Taieri. I am sure this House will bear me out in saying that that hon. member \ vas forced, was compelled to do things he wo aid not have done if he had been left to act on his own free will. But he was in this unfortun; ite position: he was elected to be head of a par. iy, which I call a party of prejudice—a party th iat goaded him into positions which he, in calm .er moments, would not have assumed. The position of the Council was such, and such thin gs were enacted, that I felt it my duty, and n iy colleagues joined with me in that feeding, th. at in meeting the late Council, we shordd do so i!n a bold, straightforward manner.— Reid : Hear.) Onr tactics, if you choose ti* sall them so, were, perhaps, peculiar to the Jion. member for the Taieri. We went on the principle That he who fights and runs away May live to fight another day. And wc have lived through it. AVc advisc'd the Superintendent in the course which he has adopted not only in dissolving himself but al so in dissolving the Council; and I unhesitatingly say that the result has been the retur n 0 f the" best ( ouncil that lias assembled he* sinro I biave been in the Cobnv. And if been obtained by thecourse ‘adopted, I think the self-sacrifice and inconve nience that I and my colleagues experienced ir % attaining that end have been well rewarded. S’ mce the Council met various efforts have been made to oust the present Government troir 4 these Benches. At the outset, intimated . to lion, members, it was my intention, as sor , n as the business was fairly started, and all • the information I could give in reference to • the Government and the conduct of business wa elicited from me, to retire from these benches I had a two-fold reason. .• 1I j > I considered j ; 0 was incumbent upon me to do so, seeing that j j shoukl sllortly kave to take my place in »Velliugton. However, hon, members did not r receive that intimation in the spirit in which I gave it. During the last ten or fifteen days I har e been the object of all sorts of aspersions and iv miarks from different parts of tins House, and i regret exceedingly that in my place at the pit ,-sent time I should have to refer to these things again. Not only were attacks levelled again? ,t the Government as a body, but I was single'd out as the black sheep of the nock, and to get me ousted was the great aim of non. membe? ;s who were opposed to my presence here.. The resu it 0 f last night’s debate, and of the division, is to ane the greatest triumph that coitfd possibly be obtained
within these walk Sir, I stand acquitted of everything charged against me. I stand acquitted of the insinuations thrown out against me in regard to past administration, and also in regard to administration since the Council met; and further, I stand acquitted of that most particular personal charge in reference to my administration as a member of the Waste Land Board.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore the present, I think, is a fitting time for me to retire from these benches. _ I retire with an unsullied reputation. I retire at a time when probably most men would follow up their victory, and pessibly goad the other side into rebellion again. But I take a different course: I have accepted the verdict of this House—(Mr Rbid : " Hear, hear") —I have placed myself unreservedly before the House, and the verdict has been in my favor. And now regarding the question as to who will be my successor, I may simply state that I have requested his Honor the Superintendent to ask Mr Turnbull to take my place here; and if my resignation—if my retirement from this honorable position in which circumstances have placed me, should have the effect of facilitating the transaction of the business of this House, I am sure hon. members will at least accord me that to which I think I am entitled: their belief that I did not attain this position from any desire on my own account. I was afraid a few days ago, from the attitude of the House, that the business of the country would be delayed unreasonably and improperly by factious opposition, but I hope the resignation of the present Administration, and the construction of a new Government will be of snch a character as to please both sides of the House, and to ensure the business being proceeded with to its termination. The Estimatea will be laid on the table abnost immediately, and I would strongly urge upon hon. members to adopt the course which I have endeavored to pursue, and let bygones be bygones, and direct their minds wholly and entirely to furthering the business of the country. Let them bury their wretched personal animosities, and if they have any sacrifices to make, let them make them, as I have done on the present occasion. (Applause.) The new Government will, in . all probability, take their places on the Treasury Benches this evening, and with that view I ask the House to adjourn uitil seven o'clock, when I hope the business of the country will go on uninterruptedly.—(Applause.) Mr Reid said he had listened with considerable surprise to the tone and matter of the speech of the hon. gentleman opposite. Instead of explaining his own conduct, he had made un-called-for charges against those who had preceded him in the administration of the affairs of the Province. He had stated that the preceding Government was not a Government of reason, but one of prejudice; yet the hon. member, during last session, supported that Government of prejudice, and as far as any private communications took place between that hon. member and other members, he (Mr lleid) was certainly under the impression that they had his warmest support, and that he did not think they were prejudiced at all. But now his object was to remove this Government of prejudice, and to bring into existence the Government of wisdom and reason they now saw before them. It would have been as well to have allowed other hon. msmbers to have drawn the contrast, instead of the hon. member rising in his self-laudatory style and telling the House that those who preceded him wore unreasoning, prejudiced, and incompetent individuals. (Hear.) Another of the hon. member's reasons was " that men in prominent positions should be allowed to express their opinions free and fully." He would like to know when they were prevented from doing so, unless since the honorable member's Government came into office. Then the honorable member said that he and his colleagues considered it right to "meet the House in a bold, straightforward manner." He really thought that the more closely the veil was drawn over the matter, the better would it be for them. When did they meet the Council in a bold, straightforward manner ? They met it in an indecisive and unworthy manner on the last occasion. Then the honorable member gave a little soothing salve to new members. The present Council, ho said, was the best that had ever been elected. What had yet been done to earn this high encomium ? Where were the great, able, statesmanlike proposals submitted to us by the Government, and supported by their followers, to justify them in saying that this was the best Council ever elected in Otago? Where were they? And echo answers, where?—(Applause.) No doubt the hon. member would have followed up that statement, had not his modesty prevented him, by saying that the present was the best Government that the Province ever saw. He certainly implied as much in the commencement of his speech.—(Hear, hear.) Then the lion, gentleman said that various efforts had been made to oust the Government. Well, all he could say was that he was not aware of them. One effort certainly was made last session, and it was successful; but the Government would not be ousted : they stuck to their seats. The. Hon. member has also talked boastfully of what took place the previous evening, but there was nothing to boast of. The question put was so involved by the bungling of hon. members on those benches, that it was not very easy for other hon. members to come to a decision upon it; and had the hon. gentleman not informed hon. members last evening that he was about to retire, the division would have been very different from what it was. Wh then boast about it being a verdict in his favor ? Did he not tell hon. members that he would retire as soon as the motion was lost ? (Mr TOLMIE: "I have to give the assertion a most emphatic denial.")— Well, if the hon. member did not do so, hon. members of this House were informed to that effect, and that information influenced their votes. (Cries of "No.") Some hon. members said "No," but there were other hon. members who did not say " No," and who, he had reason to believe, were guided in what they did by the information that the hon. members (Mr Tolmie's colleagues) conveyed to them. Yet, that hon. member said the division was a thorough vindication of his reputation.—(Mr Fish : "So it was.") The hon. member (Mr Tolmie) also regarded it as a great hardship that those opposed to him should endeavor to oust him from office. He was not aware that such a proceeding was a great hardship. Indeed it was rather the invariable practice, the invariable rule for an Opposition to do that; and therefore there was no necessity for the hon. member to prate about it.—(Hear, hear.) If it was'the opinion of the hon. member that the Government which preceded him was a Government of prejudice, why did he give them his support, when he had it in bis power, with the aid of others, to eject them from office? The statement carried with it its own refutation. After further debate the motion for adjournment till 7 p.m. was carried. On the House reassembling at seven o'clock, The Provincial Secretary explained that Mr Turnbull had not quite completed the formation of the Government; and lie therefore Moved the adjournment. Mr Tukniiull mentioned that he had been very busy during the four hours that had elapsed since his Honor sent for him, in endeavoring to form a Government; and his arrangements were in such a forward state that he confidently believed that, by two o'clock the next day, he would be able to state to the House the names of an Executive that would command the confidence of a majority of the Council. Mr Stout said it would have been better had the Government consented to the motion of Mr Green for an Imprest Supply Bill. He was told that contracts for metalling the main roads could not be entered into without money being voted. Mr Haghitt was surprised at the remarks of the member for Caversham; for no one knew better than he that an Imprest Supply Bill could not give the Government power to enter into contracts.—(Hear.) The Council then adjourned.
Thursday, July 10. On the Council assembling at 2 p.m,, Mr Turnbull rose and said ; Before proceeding with the business on the Order Paper, I wish to make a single remark or two in reference to the position I have now the honor to occupy. As I intimated last night, I have made certain progress in forming a new Executive ; and I have to announce to the House that those arrangements have been completed as follows I am Provincial Secretary and Treasurer; my henorable friend the member for Oamaru country (Dr 'Webster) is Secretary for Lands ; my honorable friend the member for Tuapeka (Mr Bastings) is Secretary for Goldfields; my
honorable friend and colleague for the City (Mr Turton) is Provincial Solicitor; and the honorable member for the Taieri (Mr Shand) is a representative of the Government without office. I have only to say, on behalf of the newly-formed Government, they are anxious, if the Council wishe3 that they should continue on these benches, to proceed with the business as fast as possible; at the same time, we have arrived at the conclusion that it would be better for the Proviuce and for the convenience of hon. members that we should get through the whole of the business this session, so as to avoid the necessity of having another session immediately after the session of the General Assembly.—(Hear.) We have thought we should be "consulting both the interests of the Province and the convenience of hon. members if we endeavor to push through all the business necessary before the next meeting of the Council next year. I do not think it necessary that I should indicate much in regard to the policy of the present Government, which is the same as that of the one which has just preceded it. I will simply indicate its opinion on two points —the railway and land questions-on which I hold decided opinions. In regard to the railway question, we have arrived at the conclusion that the object of the Government and this Council should be to urge the inimdiate completion of the main lines, as they are called, viz.: Balclutha to Mataura, Dunedin to Moeraki, and Winton to Jacob's river. We consider that it is absolutely necessary that these three lines should be completed immediately. We propose to press the General Assembly to have them completed immediately; and failing that we propose to ask the Council to agree to a proposal authorising the Government to take what steps may appear best to them, in the shape of contracting for their payment in cash, or giving the security of some of the waste lands of the Crown. We believe these three works are urgently required to promote the prosperity of the Province ; and propose that if the General Government do not do it, the Council and Proviuce should do it themselves. With regard to brauchlets and tramways, there is the one from Riverton to Orepuki, and that from Orepuki to Otautau, which are already authorised; and these, along with the branchlets connecting the Green Island collieries with the main line and the branchlet up the Waireka Valley, we propose shall be undertaken during the present year. There are other branchlets which we consider of great importance, but we believe that until another year it will not be necessary to proceed with their construction, inasmuch as the main lines, with which they will connect, will not be completed. These are : The Southern Trunk with Kaitangata and Outram ; the Waihemo Valley, and Tuapeka and Waipahee. In the following year the Government will be prepared to bring down plans, if they are in office next session, so as to have these and other lines that they may consider necessary, after full investigation, constructed. That is the position we intend to take up in regard to railways. With regard to the land question : We met last night and compared our views, and we find that we are very much at one on the main points. We propose that all absolutely agricultural laws—purely agricultural lands- shall be set aside for settlement under the deferred payment system—(hear)—or may be used as security for the construction of our railways. The setting aside of land as security in this way does not interfere with its being used as required for settlement under the deferred payment system, because under it the occupants would have the use of it until the time came for taking up the Crown grants, by which time, no doubt the Province would have found other means of paying the liability, in respect of which the land was set aside. In view of the resolutions carried by the member for Caversham for increasing the quantity of land to be set aside in one year under the deferred payment system, we propose to bring down resolutions intimating in what positions the increased quantities shall be set aside. We also intend to declare several new Hundreds ; and that in'.one, two, or three of these Hundreds, blocks of laud shall be set aside under the deferred payment system, so thatsettlcrs under the deferred payment system shall have the same advantages as to depasturing rights as the purchasers of freeholds. — —(Hear.) We are advised that any person purchasing land within Hundrels set aside under the deferred payment system, is entitled under the Land Act to the same grazing rights over the unsold portion of the Hundreds _ as those who purchased freehold There is only one other point, and it is, if we are to carry out all our engagements to the fullest _ extent, the Government should bo authorised to sell such purely pastoral land as is wanted for revenue purposes—{Mr Keid: Hear.) The hon. member said "hear, hear:" no doubt he knows, from past experience, it must be had, and was aware that land at a certain altitude was only available for pastoral purposes, and he did not think there should be any objection to sellingit. In reference to the Waste Land Board the Executive had considered the pointfully;and taking into consideration the large interests of the Goldfields, they think that the Secretary of the Goldfields is the proper person to appoint to that Board, and a minute was passed recommending the Governor to appoint Mr Bastings as a member of the Board representing the Government, and he would go to that Board representing the views of the Government. QUESTIONS. The following answers were given to questions put:—The Government were preparing a Bill embodying the desired amendment of the Southland land laws, and intended to have it introduced into the General Assembly. The Government had received no application from miners or others requesting the proclamation of the Dunedin goldfield, which was proclaimed in December, IS7I ; and were not aware of the reasons that induced the Government to proclaim it, nor were they aware if there was the color of gold on the ground.—The Government were not aware, except by public report, that dummy applications had been put in for a large quantity of land in the Waitahuna district. If the Government obtained evidence of anyone getting land in this surreptitious manner, they would take means to prevent it. They believed the practice was pursued, but it was difficult to obtain proof.—lt was true, as stated in the Daily Times loader of the 9th inst., that grants of books had been given to St. Paul's library, and to Knox Church Sunday School library. On one or two occasions, when there was a surplus of books in the hands of the Education Board, schools and others were allowed to purchase them at cost price, but no grants of the character mentioned were made. —No negotiations had been opened with the General Government for the sale to it of the Bluff and Winton railway. -The principles upon which the Police department was guided in giving effect to promotion in the department—so far as tho Government knew—were efficiency and seniority, and the recommendations of the Commissioner.—The Government had every desire to take the petition of Messrs Fowler, Murray, and others for the consideration of certain grievances in connection with agricultural leases which were refused to them into their favoraWe consideration, and would have no objection to placing a sum of money on the Estimates. —The Government had had brought under consideration the question of declaring either the road between Pukeuri Point and the Waitaki the main road. They would consult the Engineer, and get a report. —The amount of money expended upon Pitt street works during the last twelve months was Ll9O 10s sd. Arrangements had been made with the Corporation in the matter ; that fresh steps were being taken, and the work would be let and proceeded with at once.-The cost of theMaerewhenuaJSale Commission had been L-12 2s od. —It was the intention of the Government to define the boundaries of commonage in the Roxburgh district, and to give access to it by proclaiming a roadway to it. The reason the Government had not done the work up to the present time was that they had not a sufficient number of surveyors at their command to do the necessary work throughout the Province, and it was the intention of the previous and present Governments to revert to the system of having a surveyor for the goldfields district. It was necessary, in the interests of the goldfields, that surveyors should be under the control of the Government, because if the Government bad to pay surveyors for every little thing done, great expense would be incurred, as well as inconvenience and expense to the mining community. The arrangements would be completed as soon as possible. TAPAROI ATHEN.WJM. The Secretary, fug Gw,dieu)§ asd Works
moved—"That an address be presented to his | Honor the Superintendent, recommending that sections 9, 10, and 11, block 8, Tapanui, be set apart as a site for an Athemeuni." Carried. SCHOOL AT WAIHOLA. The Provincial Secretary moved—"That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, recommending that sections 14, 15, and 16, block 6, Waihola, be set apart as a site for a school." Carried. COMMONAGE FOR TAPANUI. The Secretary for Goldfields and Works moved—"That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, recommending that 509 acres 1 rood and 25 poles, more or less, situate in Glenkenich district, being section 02, block 13, be set apart as a commonage for the inhabitants of Tapanui." Carried. CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES. The Provincial Secretary and Treasurer moved that Mr E. M'Glashan be appointed Chairman of Committees. Mr Reid was proceeding to object to the appointment, when The Provincial Solicitor rose to order, and asked if it was customary to discuss the qualifications of members proposed either for Speaker or Chairman of Committees. It had been done on the election of Speaker, but he garnered from May that the practice was, when a member was proposed, if another was proposed in his stead, the vote was taken without discussion. He thought it was not the practice to make any remark as to the qualifications or fitness of the person proposed. He considered that a proper proceeding, as an omjosite course had a tendency to engender ill-feeling. The Speaker said the Provincial Solicitor was quite csrrect, provided the member objecting did not intend to propose another member. 3 Mr Reid said it appeared to him most unreasonable to expect a vote should be given for or against a person proposed, without permitting reasons to be given for it. It might be Parliamentary, but it was contrary to the usual mode of conducting ' business and opposed to common sense. If the i Speaker ruled that the matter could not be debated, he would go to a division retaining all the wisdom he might possess, and other members would be in a similarly unfortunate position. Mr Stout commented on the passage in Mai), and gave his views of Parliamentary usage on the matter. The Speaker said in any remarks the name of the member proposed must not be mentioned. Mr Reid said that a Chairman of Committees found it more difficult to maintain order than the Speaker, as in Committee a member could speak as often as he thought fit, while in the House he could only address himself once to a question before it. A Chairman of Committees sliould, therefore, have greater powers for conducting debates than even the Speaker, combined with firmness and decision. He trusted that the choice would not be based on party feelings, for, as the appointment was for a long period, care should be taken that nothing should be done which might be regretted. No other member being proposed, the motion was put and earned. The following motions were agreed to : By Mr Green— "Thata select committee lie appointed to inquire into all matters connectedin any way with the promotion, construction, purchase, and taking over by the Provincial Government of the Port Chalmers Railway; the committee to consist of Messrs Bastings, H. Clark, Davie, Stout, Reid, Roberts, and the mover." By Mr HazletT— "That an address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, requesting that effect be given to the recommen elation of the Private Petitions Committee in the case of Henry Hirst, as contained in the Interim Report." By Dr MENZIES- "That a respectful ad-* dress be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting that effect be given to the recommendations of the Private Petitions Committee in the case of Richard M'Kay, of Tapanui, as contained in the Interim Report." By Mr Hallenstein—"That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting that effect be given to the recommendations of the Private Petitions Committee in the case of Warden Richmond Bectham, as contained in Interim Report No. o from the said Committee." By Mr Mackellar—" That the consideration of the Goldfields Bill, proposed to be introduced at next meeting of the Assembly, be referred to the Goldfields Committee; Report to be brought up within three days." By Mr Green—"That it is desirable the most dangerous curves on the Mam North road should be immediately rendered less dangerous by either electing strong fencing or widening the roads at such points as may be deemed advisable by the Provincial Engineer."' RAILWAY TO CROMWELL. Mr Hazlett moved— "That a Select Committee, consisting of Messrs Bastings, Davie, Hallenstein, Ireland, M'Kellar, J. 0, Brown, and the Mover, be appointed to report as to the advisability of, with the least possible delay, extending the railway from Tuapeka to Roxburgh, Alexandra, Clyde, and Cromwell. The Committee to have power to call for persons and papers, and to report within three days." Carried. IMMIGRANTS RILLS. Mr Daniel moved—"That, in the opinion of this Council, the prosecution on the part of the Provincial Government, in respect of immigration bills, in cases where the immigrants are unable to pay in full, is inexpedient and impolitic ; and that the Government be requested to take such steps as it may see tit to deal with each case on its merits, with the view to remitting the whole or a portion of the outstanding claims." In speaking to the motion, the mover said that he was aware that these debts pressed heavily upon a certain class. In his opinion, the amount contributed by these parties to the Customs revenue more than compensate:! the Province for any deficiency that might exist in the payment of'their bills. Moreover, the sum due under these bills amounted to Ll7 or LIS per head, whereas Government was now bringing out assisted immigrants at a uniform rate of from L 3 to L 4, and in some eases altogether free. Mr James Wilson seconded the motion. Mr Oliver opposed it. It seemed to him that the Government now possessed all the powers sought for by the resolution. Judging each case upon its own merits was simply the policy pursued by the Government for many years past. It was, he urged, a bad example for the Government to countenance any proceeding savoring of the repudiation of a just liability, and he for one would protest against anything of the kind. Mr U'Lean also spoke against tho motion. He thought the motion would not alter the present position of the question. To pass the motion would Ire like placing the (fovernment in a position to purchase political support by relieving certain parties from their liabilities, Mr StoCT said that it seemed to him that the motion was altogether unnecessary. If the parties were not in a position to liquidate their bills in the Provincial Treasury, nothing in the world could compel them to do so. The Provincial Secretary agreed so far with the mover of the motion, that something should be done in regard to the arrears due upon these bills. Two months ago lie caused a return to be made of the outstanding , debts, and to his astonishment he found that they amounted to a sum of 1,15,000. A large proportion of that sum had been due for a period of ten years, and was now irrecoverable. He thought power should be given to the Government to do this: to go into each of the cases, and wipe off from the books all such debts as are irrecoverable. (hie ease of nonpayment of these bills within his own knowledge was that of a person well advanced in years, who had paid L7O or LSO out of a debt amounting to Lll9 or Ll2O. That party was no longer able to pay a shilling more, and it was most unpleasant for a person so placed to have his name, week after week, and month after month, appearing in the pages of the Gazette. A resolution like the one proposed would strengthen the hands of the Government in their endeavor to have expunged from their books sums that were in reality irrecoverable. It would do no harm for the Council to p.iss the motion. Mr Reid demurred to the motion. He thought the previous speaker must bo aware the Government had all the powers that were necessary in order to compel those who could pay to do so; and also the power, in the case of those unable to pay, to remit the same. The enforcement of the debt was, no doubt, a haul-
slap m some instances. On tho other hand, it must be remembered that it might be hekl to be an inducement to loose parties, who were quite able to pay, from their bonds. Those persons who had hitherto evaded payment would bo encouraged to believe that they would be enabled to escape from their obligations altogether. He did not like to countenance a proceeding of that kind. Moreover, if theso debts were ten years old the statute of limitations would apply to them. He did not see that it could be considered n hardship for parties in arrears to be advertised of the fact. If so, arrangements might be made to have the names omitted, and the announcement simply made "the passengers, by a particular vessel one, reminded to pay." The Provincial Solicitor suggested that the motion should be withdrawn, which was eventually agreed to. DISTRICT ROADS. Mr Cumming moved-" That the District Engineer be asked to inspect the road from Wallaoetown to lliverton, and from Kiverton to Otautau, before the end of next month, with a view to his being able to give in a report of their real requirements." ■ Mr M'Kenzie moved as an amendment that * an inspection be made of all the district roads in the Province. He argued that other roads were in quite as bad a state as the road indicated by the motion. The Secretary for Works promisod that the Provincial Engineer would receive definite ""i instructions to give the subject of theso roads T\ his early attention, and on that understand."-' 1 P la( ? theniotion and amendment were withdrawn. ""* ! The House then adjourned to 2 p.m. next i day.
Friday, July 11. QUESTIONS. _ The following answers were given to questions The (Government were not aware of having in their possession any papers referring to the appointment of District Judges for Oamaru, Tokomairiro, and Invercargill, but would make enquiry.—Government wore quite prepared to recommend the extension of the telegraph from Naseby to the Dunstan via St. Bathans. BILLS. * The following Bills were committed, read a third time, and passed The North Shag Valley School Reserve Sale Bill, the Dunedin Reserves Management Bill, the Frankton Racecourse Reserve Management Bill, and the Invercargill Athena;urn Reserve Management Bill. MISCELLANEOUS. The name of Mr Hali.enstein was substituted for that of Mr Bastings on the Goldfields Committee j and it was resolved to present addresses to the Superintendent, recommending that sections 7 and S, block 10, Blueskin Villagc, beset apart as a site for an atheiueum : that sections 1 to 18, 20, and 21, block 45, Invercargill, be set apart as a site for immigration barracks ; and that section 41a, block 2, Minton Hundred, be set apart as a cemetery. FRANKTON FALLS. It was agreed—“ That in the opinion of this Council, it is desirable that bridges should be erected over the Kawarau at the Nevis Ferry and at the Morven Ferry, Frankton Falls, and that an address he presented to his Honor the Superintendent, recommending that such conditions be offered as are likely to induce private persons to undertake these works.” free schooling. Mr G. F. C. Browne moved—" Ist. That in the opinion of this Council it is expedient for the interest of education that free schoolin'' should be provided throughout the district schools. 2nd. That the Government be requested during the recess to prepare an Ordinance, to be brought in at the next session, to give effect to the following resolution, viz.:—- ‘ Any parent or guardian desiring to have a child or children admitted to any district school as free scholars) shall make an application to the Committee in the district in which he resides (power being vested in School Committees to give an order of admittance); and on any Committee being satisfied of the inability of such parent to pay school fees, shall then give an order of admittance; fees for such scholars shall lie paid by the Board out of moneys voted by this Council.’” The him. member stated that there were 5184 children in the Province, beti\ eon the ages of five and fifteen, who received no education. The Provincial Secretary opposed the motion. After a short discussion, the debate was postponed, and the House adjourned till Monday at 2 p.m.
In the Provincial Council, on Mondav, the chair was taken by Mr M'Glashan, in the absence of the Speaker. Among tho notices of motion given for to-morrow were a string by the Secretary for Works having reference to his Honor's Messages. The first of those affirms that the main line from Waitaki to Invercargill should be at once completed right through ; that the cost of construction should be provided out of the Public Works and Immigration Loan ; that application be made to the General Government accordingly ; and that, failing such provision beiny made by the General Government during its present session, the Provincial Government is empowered to proceed with the construction of the line from Clutha to Mataura, and from Dunedin to Moeraki, both lines to be sub- - nntteel to public tender, the first to be paid for out of the proceeds of land contiguous to the lino, such land to be reserved from sale ponding the construction of the line • the second to be paid for by the sale of 500,000 acres of pastoral land in terms of section 150 of the Land Act, 1572. The remaining resolutions authorise the immediate constrU(" ,iCl tion of a light line up the Waireka Valley,;. Xjs> distance of fifteen miles, at a cost not exceeding L 31.000. said cost to be defrayed by tho sale of 50,000 acres of pastoral land in tho Northern district; and the immediate construction of a line from Riverton to Orepuke, and from Riverton to Otautau, payment to be made in cash or in land in the Western district, at the option of tho Government, such land to be valued at tho rate of 20s an acre ; that tho Winton-Otautau line be constructed at a coat not exceeding L 20.000, payment to be made out of revenue. That L 6.000 be placed on the Estimates for connecting the Green Island colleries and meat preserving works. The resolutions name the following lines to be surveyed this, and commenced next year :—Waipahee to Tapanui; main trunk hue to Kaitangata.; do. to Outrain - Palmerstoa to Waihemo. The Provincial Treasurer has a motion affirming tho desirability of raising L 30.000, to be spent on giving increased school accommodation ; such loan to be a first charge on the Education Reserves. Mr Davie will move that L3OO be placed on the supplementary estimates to aid the Dunedin Cricket Oval Improvement Fund. The Provincial Secretary stated in answer to Mr M'Dermid, that they had'not received any official notification of the contract entered into between the Colonial Government and Messrs M'Mcckan, Blackwood, and Co., but had seen the telegram stating the terms, and they were decidedly opposed to the contract. The Government proposed sending a strong remonstrance on the subject as soon as they received official intimation of the contract. Message No. 9 was read, recommending that three new Hundreds should be declared—2o,ooo acres in runs 185 and 160, 10,000 acres in runs SS and 161, and 15 000 acres m runs 137 and 123 Messa-e No 10 recommended the following land being thro wa open under tho deferred payment system : 5,000 acres in run 111; 5,000 acres "in runs 107 A and 78; L',500 acres in runs 168 and 1/oa; 6,500 acres in run 199; 2,500 acres m run 261 ; 3,000 acres in run 340 ■ 2 500 acres in run 109; 2,000 acres in run 215; 0,000 acres in runs 123 and 137.
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Dunstan Times, Issue 586, 11 July 1873, Page 3 (Supplement)
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21,511PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Dunstan Times, Issue 586, 11 July 1873, Page 3 (Supplement)
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