PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Dunstan Times, Issue 578, 16 May 1873, Page 1 (Supplement)

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesday, May 6. messages. Messages No. I and 2 were read. The first enclosed copy of a despatch received by the Governor from the Right Hon. tho Secretary of State for the Colonies, conveying to the Council the thanks of the Queen for their kind expression of sympathy and congratulation on the restoration to health of JI.R. H. the Prince of Wales. [Tho following ja the concluding paragraph of the Earl’s ad dress: —“lam commanded to instruct you to convoy to the Council of Otago the Queen’s thanks for their kind expressions of sympathy and congratulations, and to assure them that Her Majesty warmly appreciates the spirit of loyalty to the British Crown, jnd of attachment to the person and family of the Sovereign which is displayed in their address.”] Message No. 2 submitted for approval the name of Mr William Logie as an assessor under section 142 of the Waste bands Act of 1872.

PETITIONS. The following petitions were presented : William Waddel, of Invercargill, praying for relief because of injuries received, by which his leg was f actured, and he had been unable to follow his occupation of cattledealer, through the inadequacy of the appliances for the transport of cattle on the Bluff and Invercargill Railway (by Mr Lumsden). —Henry Hirst, complaining that he bad had bis run cancelled and had been deprived of purchasing his pre-emptive right of 250 acres, and suffered loss to his stock by the action of miners at Orepuki, and praying for inquiry (by Mr Daniel). —Hugh Sutherland, claiming a reward for the discovery of a new goldfield in the Dunback district (by the Secretary for Goldfields).

WAIKAIA AND OLENKENICII SALE. In answer to a question without notice by Mr M ‘Glashan—Why the applications forland to be sold in the Waikaia and Glenkenich districts, advertised in the Gazelle of April 30, were to be made at the Invercargill and not at the Dunedin Land Office, the Provincial Secretary had merely to say that the Land Act provided that the Province should be divided into two districts, and in pursuance of that arrangement, which was ba-ed on the terms of the union with Southland, the land in question was within the Southland district ; hence applications were received at Invercargill. SESSIONAL COMMITTEES. The usual House and Printing Committees | ere appointed. papers, &c. The following papers, &c. were laid on the table, and the aftermentioned Bills intro diiced :—Correspondence with and from tho Home Agent and Colonial Secretary ; report of the Inspector of Schools ; University Council report ; account of the Southland Acclimatisation Society Trust Fund; correspondence with Messrs Grey and Turnbull relative to additional commonage at Alexandra; Dunedin Reserves Management Ordinance. Amendment Ordinance ; Dempsey Trust Fund Ordinance; Oamaru Hospital Deserves Charge ; Invercargill Racecourse Deserves Management; Invercargill Hospital Reserves Management; Port Chalmers Waterworks Empowering; Compulsory Land Taking.

Wednesday, May 7. The Speaker took the chair at two o’clock. Mr Thomson asked why the Hon. John Bathgate, who, as Provincial Solicitor, is ex ofiieio a member of the Executive Council, had not taken his seat on the Executive benches? The Provincial Secretary said Mr Bathgale, not being Provincial Solicitor, had not taken his seat as member of the Provincial Executive. Committees. On the motion of the Provincial Secretary, Xus. IS to 21 on the Order Paper, which had reference to the appointment of Printing and Private Petitions Committees, took precedence if other business. They were carried. XIrT’HOMSON, on moving for the appointment nt a Committee of Reference, said that although lie considered the proceedings of the Committee might he questioned, as he thought them illegal, he would move “That the Committee uf Reference, under the Provincial Compulsory hand Taking Act, ISGfi, consist of Mr Clark, Mr Lumsden, Mr M’Lean, Mr Sumpter, Mr Held, Mr Hallenstcin, and .the Mover.” Mr Bathgate considered that a person exlircssing an opinion of that character, without good grounds, disqualified himself from acting fairly as a member of it, and moved that his name be struck off the list. Mr Hutcheson, pro forma, seconded the motion, and was proceeding to speak on it, when Mr Bathgate asked leave to withdraw Ids motion, as he trusted Mr Thomson saw the imiiropriety of which he bad been guilty. The motion was carried.

ADDRESS IN REPLY. Mr Fish moved thefollowing address in reply to His Honor’s speech : “ We join with your Honor in expressing satisfaction at the steady advancement which 1m characterised the progress of the Province ilnring the past year. AVe have to assure you that the many important proposals suggested ly you will have onr earnest consideration. As respects the' Executive changes which have taken place during the recess, no doubt much may be said. AVe are of opinion, however, that I it will serve no practical purpose to discuss the I subject now, and shall he prepared to deal with the policy of the GovernmentAipon its merits.” Ho was inclined to regret that the practice in some other Provinces had not Been followed ot not moving any address in reply to His Honor’s message. He looked upon the abolition of that formality as a step in the right direction—a small one it might be, but it was in the direction of doing away with useless and unnecessary forms in connection with meetings of the Council. There might have been reasons why, in i this instance, the usual course was followed, ami, as the youngest member of the Council, it hail fallen to bis lot to propose the address in reply. He might take either of two courses : either to say little or adopt the course of criticMng the address itself. He did not think it *Ollll be wise to content himself with moving the address without saying something on the ■abject of it. He therefore requested the indulgence of honorable members, if he detained them longer than be might otherwise have done. He had been struck with the evidence given of marked prosperity in the Province for the last twelve months. It was unexampled in New Zealand. It was not a mere statement on Paper, but the statistics shewed it to be real. The export returns must strike every one both maml nut of the Colony. It was matter for pgret that none of the Customs revenue found its way to the Provincial Treasury; but all went to the general revenue, although one-third °f the Customs levenne of the Colony was rentributed by this Province. The yield of S"H shewed a small increase, and when it was considered that the number of miners was “js than formerly, it was evident the produce « our gold fields per man was increasing. On Hading the figures indicative of the exports, he w® amazed at the gigantic strides the Province had made. Such rapid advance was without parallel in any other part of the wurll. That fact of L7O per head must form a nse for thankfulness and gratulation. The progress had been greater and more sure than pany amongst us bad been aware of. Another '■Mi showing progressiveness was that a paper'll was about to be established. The bonus by the Government had, no doubt, been be immediate cause ; but it siiowed that those who suggested its being offered were right in judgment as to what was conducive to ""cress. With regard to the bank account, it w« gratifying to find the financial year Ruted with a credit balance of L 16,700, Instead 13 last year, a debit one of L-10,000. It 'wed a difference of L 57,000. His Honor "haled to the investment of capital in gold puiing. No doubt, large capital had been so jwested, and it was a proof that there was a .=2 amount of unemployed capital seeking » v «tment. Whatever differences o{ opinion

there might be, all would agree in expressing gratification at the prosperity of the Province The next item was that of immigration. He observed that 1,525 adults had arrived during the past year. He could not help regretting it was not much greater. He believed the Province was capable of absorbing 10,000 immigrants a-ycar, and if the scheme now being carried out was to be a success there must be not only in Otago, but in other Provinces, a considerable accession to the number sent to our shores. He was glad that during the present year there wore likely to be 4,000 or 5,000 immigrants sent to this Province. He did not think that sufficient, and that it was a matter for rejoicing that the Glasgow agency was re-opened. He might say that from no portion of Great Bxdtain could more suitable immigrants be drawn than from that source. He was glad to find a large number was likely to arrive from thence. He was glad that immigrants were likely to be brought by large steamers ; for to shorten the duration of the voyage was so much profit to the immigrants, the Province, and the Colony. He considered the immigration scheme should be worked by the General Government, which should seek advice from the Provincial authorities and make use of those agencies which had proved successful. He considered the present school accommodation quite inadequate to the requirements. It was true with regard to the town, and doubtless it was so in the country. If our admirable scheme of Provincial education were to be a success, competent teachers were required; he, therefore, entirely agreed with what his Honor said in regard to training schools, and an additional -inspector was a necessary, for it would be miserable economy to render schools inefficient through want of inspection. As a Commission was appointed to inquire into the High school management, he need say nothing on that head, but he considered the time had arrived when the High School should be abolished, for he considered the duty of the State began and ended with the district and grammar schools. If it was to be maintained, it should be self supporting. There were oidy 105 boys, who, independent of the fees paid, cost the Pro vince 1.2,000 per annum. That should be stopped, for he objected to continue the system which voted large sums of money for the benefit of a class. He was informed that in the grammar schools a high class education was given, and that it was sufficiently comprehensive and classical to enable boys to bike their place in society, with benefit to themselves and Otago. With regard to railways, the proposals required careful consideration. All agreed that the main trunk lines shoidd be completed, and every effort should be made to bridge the intervening space. Although not prepared to offer a definite opinion upon that clause of the Address, he should give it a general support. He considered lines should he let by tender, no matter by what means payment was to be made. Land fit for agriculture would be enhanced in value, and in the Waipahi Valley would probably fetch L3orL 4an acre. It

was, therefore, a question whether land should be sold before or after the railway was made. Under any circumstances, it should only be sold to botia fide, settlers ; for if the land were parted with to squatters or large capitalists, what would become of immigrants when they arrived ? The line from Moeraki to Dunedin was of equal importance. The General Government were making a survey, and if a scheme could be devised by which the line could be more speedily made by the Province, it should have his support. There should he an unbroken line from north to south. He was glad the Government had turned attention to making main roads through the goldfields, for he could speak from observation as to their necessity. He was glad subsidies to Road Boards would not be discontinued. and that the system was to be extended to the Goldfields. He considered the defence of the harbor should not bo undertaken by the Provincial Government. He admitted it should be defended. He trusted that the reserve asked for would be granted to friendly societies, for the value of tho ground would be small to the Province, but great to the societies. The societies did an incalculable amount of good. The proposals in regard to the Lunatic Asylum wore humane, and it was gratifying to find the Executive had not neglected moral matters, as they had turned attention to those cases of incurable insanity. He was glad the Government proposed to open the Hospital to all medical practitioners, as medical practice was necessary for the safety of all classes. He con sidered that the Hospital should be placed under trustees, as the public would contribute more largely. He would support a Harbor Trust. He approved of the system of selling laud on deferred payments, but saw no reason why the system should pot be generally adopted, instead of confining it to 30,000 acres. He had not made up bis mind as

to tlie suggested increase in the price of land. Throughout the address there was a wise breadth of view that was most refreshing, and contrasted very favorably with previous addresses. He did not know whether the Superintendent had more light or more experience, or that he had selected advisers who had larger or more extended views ; but tho Council might j fairly and thankfully congratulate themselves ! that the document was superior in tone and I quality to any that had preceded it. It depended upon tho course the Council took whether he should say anything more as to the last clause. He had no reason to object to the clause. Mr Hutcheson rose to order. Tho Speaker ruled Mr Fish in order. Mr Fish would not go largely into the question, as it might cause personal fpeling. He was of opinion the Executive were equal to any that ever sat on those benches, and no question of personal difference should be associated with their names. They should lie judged on their merits, and stand or fall by them. He trusted the time of the Council would not be frittered away in useless discussion, but that they might proceed at once to the consideration of the matters shadowed in the Superintendent's Address. Mr Reid rose to move an amendment to the reply just moved. It was not his intention to follow the lion, member in the remarks he had made. He might compliment him on his speech, and the Council might well be glad of his accession to their numbers. The reply proposed was the nearest possible approach to no reply at all, and the hon. member would have done himself justice had he expressed no opinion on the subject of the Address, for his actions and opinions did not correspond; but as he had expressed his views, he would not object to others expressing theirs. There were two points he wished to remark on : the debit balance at the Bank being entirely cleared off, and spending money more freely. If there was a deficit at the Bank twelve months ago, it showed the Executive twelve months ago were spending money freely. The hon. member’s arguments destroyed themselves. Had the hon. member had more experience, he would have known that all districts that contributed towards public works received subsidies to the extent of the Government’s power, but if for private benefit, it would not meet the approval of the Council. Mr Fish explained that he did not wish to convey such an idea. Mr Reid did not think he did. His object in rising was to move the following amendment “ That this Council is of opinion that the appointment of the gentlemen at present occupying the Government benches, and their retention of office, is in direct opposition to the system of responsible government sanctioned by tire Council; and this Council hereby records its protest against any Government being appointed to, or holding office under such circumstances.”

He might state that he undertook to move that amendment, much against his feelings, at the request of a large number of members who had given him a large share of support. He would give a few reasons why he thought the House bound to support the amendment. At the outset he wished to divest the question of a personal aspect, amt to keep out of sight that he himself was in some degree mixed up with it. He would deal with it purely in its constitu-tional-aspect. He would pot advert to matters which took place which led to the dismissal of the late Government, except by saying that if good grounds had existed for that course, h,e contended no reason was shown why the sins which ought to have been borne by that individual alone should have been visited on his colleagues, who, like himself, were appointed with the concurrence of the Provincial Council. Rut wjat took place when the Superintendent

dismissed the head of the Government ? Certain gentlemen of Dunedin had been asked to form a new Government. If his colleagues would have agreed to act with those who had opposed them, they might have obtained a position in the succeeding Government. The only proper course was to have relegated to Ids own remaining colleagues the reconstruction of an Executive ; and if they did not meet the approval of the Superintendent, there was the legitimate and proper course to take—to appoint another Executive, and immediately summon thepouucil. Instead of that, a number of gentlemen by one means or another got together, and notwithstanding a pressing request that a session should be held, and questions of great importance were to be dealt with; the request was treated in a supercilious manner, and they proceeded to exercise the functions that the Council would never have agreed to trust them with had it been in session. A case had transpired with the Hon. Mr Waterhouse, who thought it his duty to resign office. What would the members of the Assembly have said if his Excellency, instead of asking his colleagues to make new arrangements, instead of sending for Mr Eox had sent for Mr Stafford, and requested him to construct a Ministry, as matters of great importance were to he dealt with forthwith. Would not the Assembly have resented that ? Most undoubtedly, although his position was more irresponsible than that of the Superintendent. It was, therefore, the duty of the Superintendent to ask the colleagues of the late Ministry to form a Ministry and convene the Council. If it was objectionable not to take that course, how mu»h more so was it that the pieseut Executive had been taken from the Ministry in the Council ami were untried men. Notwithstanding the laudations of the bon. gentleman, be ought to have given some reason why they should have been placed in the prominent positions they now held. Had there been no other reason for calling the Council together, the fact of the Waste Land Act having to take effect in January, and that a new Board had to be appointed was not only sufficient justification but an imperative reason. He heartily concurred in his Honor’s opinion, that the weak point in the Laml Act was the appointment of an irresponsible Board. His Honor had opposed that in the House of Representatives, and said it was improbable that the Legislative Council would agree to an alteration. That was another reason why the Council should have been called together. (The bon. member member read His Honor’s reply to the request to convene the Council.) But was it understood by the Council that His Honor should dismiss his Executive, and appoint those who had not the confidence of the Council ? They had rather the new Land Act should not become law ; and then the Council was told, with a degree of modesty,—we have it in the correspondence—that Mr Turnbull and bis colleagues had taken office on the following conditions “To give the new land law, which will shortly come into operation, a fair trial; and to endeavor to get the Waste Land Board composed of competent and unprejudiced men, likely to administer the Act fairly and impartially towards every interest throughout the Province ” The trial the Act was to get was a very negative one. The least they could have said was that they intended to make the administration of the Act a complete success ; and with regard to the appointment of those competent and impartial men, he would take the opportunity of saying a few words which might not be out of place. The inference he gathered from that extract was that previous Boards were partial and incompetent. It appeared to him that the Government of the day were of opinion that if the Council had the opportunity of making the appointment they would still have had incompetent and partial men. Past Boards might be partial and incompetent, but their actions would compare favorably with the vacillating action of the present Waste Land Board. Their opinions were only public, and not private, and he thought it probable the acta of those competent and impartial men would involve the Province in litigation that was very likely to be successful. Other matters led him to conclude the Waste Land Board was not acting with heartiness, for notwithstanding they had advertised that persons might take up the depasturing licenses in the Traquair Hundred, they were told by the Waste Land Board they would not further take the matter up, although the matter had been settled by the runholder with the Government. If the Council negatived the resolution ho proposed, it would affirm one of the moat dangerous principles that had ever been adopted by anybody dealing with such large subjects as that Council deal with. In the correspondence that passed between the Superintendent and the members who wished to convene the Council, his Honor said that the principal function of the Council was to vote monies, and that he was unable to sec the public benefit of expending L 2,000. He contended it would have been beneficially spent in appointing a AVaste Laml Board approved by the Council, and consequently by the Province. If appropriation of revenue was a chief duty of the Council, there was greater reason why the Executive left in power should be in power when the Council met. If there was a necessity for his being dismissed, there was no necessity to dismiss lijs colleagues, so that the money voted should not be at the caprice of the Superintendent of the day. Many illegal acts had been committed by the Executive; for contracts had been advertised for and tenders invited in which the Superintendent and Executive exceeded their powers. The Provincial Secretary : Name them. Mr Reid could not at the moment, hut contracts had been called for works not sanctioned by the Council. The last paragraph of the Address spoke of responsible advisers. To whom were they responsible? His Honor retained the name “responsible,” but they were as responsible as the Waste Lapd Board. His Honor thought they should be responsible, and the Council was of the same opinion. Then the Address said they had been reluctantly induced to take office ; but there were two or three members who had taken office on the most trivial occasions, and he regretted to say he had been instrumental in removing them on other occasions, and should have to do so at present. He thought they had shown great desire for office, instead of reluctance in accepting it. That was commendable, and lie should be glad to see others ready to assist the Superintendent. Under the guise of public good great hoaxes wore committed. It was a sense of public duty that compelled the Superintendent to dismiss his previous Executive, as well as the present members to accept office. PuMjp duty covered a multitude of sins. According to the member for Dunedin, the Address was the handiwork of his Honor’s Executive, and they said ; ■“Weave administrators who have conducted the affaire of the country a long time ; we possess the confidence of the country.” But he thought the verdict of the Council would be: “ Whether they possessed the con. fidence of the country or not, the Council would not submit to its functions being interfered with in the way in which it had been done, without saying whether it approved of the change.” .Some admonition had been given not to waste time, and therefore he would not trespass further. He regretted being pressed into the position of having to move a resolution likely to disturb the members of the Executive, but he might take courage under that phrase “ public duty.” He did not see why sacrificing themselves for the public should be the privilege of one side of the House only. What lie did was from a sense of duty, and at the request of n large number yf members who wished him to do so.

Mr Lumsden seconded the amendment: The hon. member for the Taieri had expressed his own ideas. The Council owed to its selfrespect to protest against the mode in which the Executive were installed. The Council knew how the matter took place—the contest which took place on the land resolutions; who fought for and against them in the Assembly; and the initiation of that measure seemed by rigid that of the late Ministry. The great fpiestion before the country was, the settlement of the country : it had always been and would have to be fought in the Council. He understood his Honor’s address to provide for settlement on deferred payments. lie spoke of land designed for payment for railway construction, which was the only compact block left fog agricultural settlement. If that land were set apart % such a work it would fall into the hands of large proprietor's. It was well known that the land was valuable, am]" the present landholder was prepared to take half of it hirapelf; so that under the circumstances that

policy was hardly deserving the approval o' the Council. The large increase of revenue was owing to special land sales in Southland, where not less than LIOO,OOO had been realised last year. It was not likely, therefore, that the revenue would continue. The laud had been taken up by large proprietors for no other purpose than to shut up settlement. Unless the Government secured every block available for settlement they would not be doing their duty. He saw 2,500 acres proposed to be sold iu various places on deferred payments ; but was the Council sure it was selected as being really first-class land? Some proof should be given that it was likely to secure settlement. Would the new Laud Act have a fair trial ? Should it turn out that a great portion of the land was poor and unfit for settlement, it would be a great argument against it. As to the amount of public works proposed to be carried out, it was natural for a new Government to shew what they could do. Mr Thosi on considered that out of courtesy the Provincial Secretary should have at once replied to the speech of the hon. member for the Taieri. In his opinion the constitutional question should be settled before discussing other topics in the Address. That Address he concluded to be that of His Honor’s Executive, for he spoke disparagingly of the Waste Land Board. In the House of Representatives he used his endeavors to retain the clause in the Act providing for a Waste Land Board, as formerly constituted, hut was unsuccessful. Ho had given that opinion in his Address, but it was understood not to be that of his Executive; therefore as he was not present to reply, it was hardly fair to criticise it. The present form of Provincial Government was of such a mongrel character, that the sooner the Superintendent had a seat in that House the better, to shew cause why he did so and so. He decidedly disapproved of that clause iu the Address in which it was said, “ I feel sure they possess the confidence of the country, and, I trust alsp of this Council.” It seemed to imply, “I do not know what you think, but I know what the country thinks.” It was not a fair position for the Executive' or the Superintendent to take. The position he was inclined to take was that the constitutional question should he settled before considering other matters. It divided itself naturally into two parts. First, the action of the Superintendent with regard to Mr Reid. The correspondence between them was a curiosity in its way, hut he did not propose to deal with that. Party feeling ran high in the House of Representatives, and there was much in it that would not have been said by either side had it cooled down. It was not for him to say that the action of the Superintendent was illegal, for no doubt he had the best legal advice on the subject. But if it was not a properly constituted Executive, the Waste Land Board was not properly constituted. No doubt, therefore, he had the highest legal advice. In the old country, strictly constitutional questions were not subjects of legislation ; hut the Provincial Council did not abstain from Legislating on them. The first Ordinance was an Executive Ordinance, which, by the practice of England, was unconstitutional. No monarch in England had done so arbitrary an act. But as there were Executive Ordinances, the Council must, to some extent, be guided by them. The second clause in the Ordinance of 1861 as follows :—The administration of the Provincial Executive Government is hereby vested in the Superintendent, who shall act only by and with the advice and consent of an Executive Council, the members of which shall he appointed by the Superintendent, and hold office during his pleasure. The Superintendent, when present, shall preside, and shall have a deliberative, as well as a casting vote in all its acts and proceedings, and no act or resolution of the Executive Council shall have any effect unless two members besides the Superintendent be present, and iu the absence of the Superintendent from any cause, a member of the Executive Council, to he chosen by themselves, shall preside in the place of the Superintendent. That was the ground on which the Superintendent acted. A Deputy-Superintendent was appointed before his Honor left Dunedin, and Mr Reid appointed one of bis colleagues to perform bis duties; so that both gentlemen were in Wellington simply as members of the House of Representatives. They had no right to interfere in the affairs of the Province, being far removed from it. Of course they were able to pull the wires ; but the Superintendent hail no right to call for advice on any matters regarding the Province. If the action of the Superintendent of dismissing Mr Reid because lie was a member of the Colonial Executive were correct, it was utterly inconsistent, for the Act equally applied to the case of Mr Bathgate. He was a member of the Colonial Legislature, and whatever the hon. member at the head of the Government might say—which he was sorry to hear, in the face of evidence in black and white —he was ipse facto Provincial Solicitor, and ought to have been dismissed from that office. The only way in which he could resign it, according to law, was by resigning his position as a member of that House. The second aspect of the dismissal of Mr Reid- was more objectionable than the first. There might have been reasons for dismissing him, but the Superintendent immediately afterwards called on the hon. member for the Peninsula to form a Government. He had been but a short time in the House, took an active part in many questions, and was generally in a minority. Ho proposed certain constitutional changes, -but only a few members voted with hup. Ife moved certain resolutions on the Waste Lands Act, but so far from carrying them, he did not even call for a division ; yet he was invited to form a G nvcrmnvnt. As a matter of courtesy, a member of the Reid Government should have been asked to form an Executive. It was clearly a duty to call the Council together at the earliest opportunity, to see whether the Administration had its confidence or not. The Queen, under such circumstances as the resignation or death of a Prime Minister, woqld have summoned her faithful Commons ; and it vyas the duty of the Superintendent to have asked the advice of his Council as to whether the Executive possessed its confidence. He believed there were grave doubts whether the Waste Land Board was a legal Board, Thope were certain gentlemen in the House who had never resigned or were gazetted out of office —or at all events they claimed to bo the Executive, and a 'clever lawyer might raise the question in connection with the land, whether the Executive was legally constituted. Runholdcrs might raise the question whether the Board was legally constituted, and if not, their acts would he illegal. Of course an Act POuld lie introduced into tjie Assembly to set that rjgl)ti; Ituf the proper course was for the Waste Laud Board to resign. If the Council carried a vote of want of confidence in the Executive, it would he equivalent Jo a vote of want of confidence in the Waste Land Board, and if they were men of right spirit they would resign. If they did not, they would lower themselves ip the estimation ef the country and in their own, But that was not the question. Did they resign, it would never be known whether the Waste Land Board had the confidence of the Council and the country. Mr Cutten proposed the adjournment of the House to two o’clock the next day, as there were many members absent, and it would he unfair to them to adopt a resolution that might be important, without their concurrence. The Provincial Secretary moved the adjournment of the House to the next day, at two o’clock, to permit the attendance of absent members.

Mr Ci’TTEX withdrew his motion in favor of that of the Provincial Secretary. The Provixciai, Secretary might simply state that the amendment of the hon. member for the Taieri had taken the Government by surprise, and that was an additional reason why they wished an adjournment. Mr Shepherd drew attention to one matter which might influence his vote. He said Mr J. 0. Brown had gone about the country stating that Mr Bastings got into the Executive by reason of his support, and in order to take care of the other members of the Executive; and that he was in treaty with the Opposition members to support them again with a view to getting Mr Bastings into the Executive, should the present Administration be unseated. No doubt, when the debate was resumed, both Mr Brown and Mr Bastings would explain. Mr Heid was amazed that the Government should be taken by surprise. He was under tli'e impression they could expect no other motion titan wtyat hat} been ployed,

Thursday, May'B. The Speaker took the chair at two o’clock. After several notices of motion, the House proceeded to the orders of the day. bEPLY TO THE ADDRESS. The Provincial Secretary said, in speaking to the motion, ho wished to distinguish between the constitutional portion and that affecting specially the members holding office. Ho did not think the members of the Government had anything to do with the constitutional question. The view they took of the amendment was that it was a direct motion of want of confidence. Mr Reid : So it is.

The Provincial Secretary accepted it as such, ami wished to explain the circumstances under which the Executive were appointed. In the month of August or September, the Supei--intendont communicated to him that he hail dismissed the Provincial Secretary from office ; and with his colleagues he saw the difficulty, as things were, and after some time he agreed to accept the responsibility of forming an Administration. However, matters were allowed to remain as they were until the return of the Superintendent. Prior to his return, circumstances altered at Wellington, and the result was a change of Government; and the ground of compliant by the Superintendent being removed, he strongly urged upon him the desirability of asking the hon. member for the Taieri to resume his former position. He felt the position was an anomalous one, and that there were several important matters to he brought before the Government; principally the constitution of a Waste Land Board, as the Land Act came into operation in January, an' I as the hon. member for the Taieri had assumed the position of father of the measure, he thought it the duty of a parent to have the introduction of it. Unfortunately, he refused to accept office under the Superintendent, and the consequence was that he and his colleagues took the administration of affairs. What had been done since would bear the strictest scrutiny. They had done their best. He thought he had been the greatest delinquent, through his other duties having interfered with his giving due attention to public affairs. He considered the thanks of the House were due to his colleagues for stepping into the breach and saving the Province from unseemly and discreditable confusion. It was plain the complaint was that the Executive had the hardihood to nominate the Waste Land Board without consulting the Council; but he appealed to their common sense whether it was not better to do so than have one appointed after a hot debate, which would have resulted from a personal quarrel. Mr Reid: What personal quarrel? I never had a personal quarrel with his Honor.

The Provincial Secretary was not in the secret, hut he thought it was neither more nor less than a personal quarrel from the first, anil up to the present time ; anil that affairs could not be well conducted if the lion, member for the Taieri and the Superintendent were in opposition, and therefore affairs would suffer. With regard to the Waste Land Board, who dared to inpugn the honor and integrity of its members ? On the 24th April, the hou. member said : “ The new Land Act may be of great good if properly administered. I don’t exactly know what is meant by a non-political Board. If the object be to secure the services of persons who have never studied politics, the governing of the masses of the people, or the economical working of our Government —persons who have never formed, and cannot therefore express any opinions upon the subject—if, I repeat, that is a non-political Board, I can only say I have little faith in its administration. I would just ns soon entrust to a person who had never studied mechanics in the slightest degree, the repair and keeping in order of an intricate machine of which he had never seen or heard anything, as give to such men the administration of our Waste Lands Act.” And further : “I think the Waste Land Board ought to be composed of men who are not chosen haphazard because they have never expressed any opinion, because they take no interest in the subject, and the sole aim of whose existence has been that of money-grubbing and hoarding up wealth.” That was a pretty compliment to pay to themselves, and the members of that House. He had devoted a good deal of time to public affairs, and bo did not think they were such money-grubbers as to be spoken of in that manner. As to the other members of the Board, no one could speak of them in other terms than of the highest commendation. If it was sought to make it a political Board they must seek elsewhere for members. The measure would not have passed at all, had it not been intended to make the Board as non-political as possible. It was to remove the land administration from party feeling, and to make it a judicial Board. It was to be seen how it would work. The present Board would not rush haphazard.—(“Oh ! Oh !” from Mr Reid.) It had not such a stain onits minutes as the Traquair and Stuart’s Hundred, or M'Lean v. Macandrew. What was the position of the Traquair Hundred ? They were twitted with the statement that they had received money from the settlers in that neighborhood, and then refused to sell land on the Hundred. Very right, too. The lion, member said, when Provincial Secretary, he had settled the question. The runholder of run 48 received over L 2,000 for his rights. That was very well ; but it did not settle the matter, for although he paid the money, he had not taken a release from that runholder : the run was actually under mortgage, and another person at any moment might claim possession ; and there was another portion of run f)7 had the same ban over it. True, the runholder had fenced that portion of Ids run, but it remained in that position. It was absurd to hear the hon. member twitting the Government with the administration of the Waste Land Board, with those facts staring him in the face. The hon. member asked why he (Mr Tolmie) should be in that position on those benches. He should like to know why he should not ? He had done nothing to be ashamed of, and ilid not sec why be should not be there. T|ie lion, merqber fqr the Clutha wished tq know the experience he had had! His experience jyas, at least, equ;l to that hon. member's. Mr Thomson simply spoke qf his politics} experience. The Puovinoiaj, SKpRKTAHV specially rpferred to the motion ho (Mr Tolmie) tabled last session, which, as he nicely put, received no attention. That hon. member drew his inspiration from the Government Gazette and the Brvre Herald ; and in that latter journal bis (Mr Tolmie’s) sentiments were reproduced the other day, and no doubt he had seen the article. As regarded the right to the seats they occupied, they (the Executive) had not the slightest desire to retain them. He met the House as a matter of duty, and when the Council desired it he should be happy, to resign. He had taken office at the request of a large portion of the House, and from a feeling of loyalty to his colleagues. He would especially refer to one who came from the interior, broke up his establishment, and sacrificed much to aid the Government;, and how he had conducted his department > members of the Council and persons in the interior could testify to his zeal and ability. He referred to the member for Tuapeka, Mr Bastings. It was unnecessary further to detain the House. If it was the desire of the Council that the Executive should leave those benches, he would bo glad to be relieved from the trouble and responsibility of office. Dr Webster said he had to propose an amendment on the amendment. It was—- “ That this Council do not approve of the action of his Honor the Superintendent in dismissing the late Executive and appointing another without immediately calling the Council together, and while having confidence in the present Executive, thinks that from the mode of appointment, that in the interest of the Province, and to settle the question, they should resign.” He ought to have ascertained the constitutional bearing of the question, and posted himself up by speaking to his constituents ; but did not, as that was the place to speak to them in. With regard to the first portion of his motion, that the Council did not approve of the act of his Honor in dismissing his Executive he saw that account of the transaction in the newspapers ; nor was he shaken in his opinion when he read the correspondence. One point in it shewed his Honor was willing to retrace his steps, as he asked Mr Reid to resume his position ; but he did not blame Mr Reid for not doing so. He should be sorry to think they were not wilder constitutional government, and therefore lie should table a motion to withdraw the power from the Superintendent of appointing an Executive. A reason was given for not calling the Council together, which, had

there not been a larger majority, be should have thought sufficient, as it saved L 2,000. The Provincial Secretary said the Speaker, in reply to an objection by Mr Wood, ruled that the amendment was an amendment to a motion; but it seemed to be an amendment on an amendment. Mr Hickey submitted it must be a motion of that character. Dr Webster said it was so. Mr M‘Lean understood it to be an amendment on an amendment. Tho Provincial Secretary asked if there could be two amendments on one motion ? The Speaker said it could not be put to tho House in that way. The form was altered to the usual form. Dr Webster thought any antagonism between the head of tho Executive anil his advisers must be a bad thing for the Province. He considered there was rare originality in his Honor, and ability to discern his own and others’ conceptions for the good of the Province, and he was callable of sacrifiiiag his time and talent for public benefit. With rcgaH to having confidence in the present Executive, his Honor was left without officers, in consequence of Mr Reid declining to take office. Some were obliged to stop on until the Council met, and he thought if they resigned, the majority of the Council would put some of them again on the benches.

Mr M‘Lean would support the amendment ; not because he agreed with it, but because he disagreed with the origiual amendment. It had the merit of separating what was called in the motion the constitutional from the personal question. It was alleged that the. intention of tire amendment was to try a constitutional question ; but in reality it was levelled at the gentlemen on those benches. —(“No, no,” from the Opposition.) Not half an hour ago the member for the Taieri said it was a direct motion of want of confidence ; but it was neither more nor less than a disgraceful, personal squable, such as sometimes took place in families on trifling occasions; and it might have been settled without coming before the Council. He said deliberately the honorable member for the Taieri had been a good deal spoiled, or he would have been more useful to the country and himself. He hoped it was not too late to amend, and that he would not, fall into the same fault again. He would endeavour to point out the inconsistencies in his speech, so that he might see himself as others saw him. Tire amendment alluded to a system of responsible government sanctioned by tbo Council. What was it ? What was Die constitution? The constitution had not grown up and expanded through tho genius of the country, like that of Great Britain, but had been mended and patched by themselves. The Province had nothing but what was given it from England, which had created the various Provincial Council.-, on principles written on paper, and from time to time altered by themselves; and in an Ordinance was defined the relations between the Superintendent and his Executive, in which it was said they should hold office during his pleasure. Where then was the breach of the constitution? He challenged an answer. Clearly there was no violation of it. Tho Superintendent called his Executive, formed from the majority; but be had a right to call them from anywhere. The Council put power into his hands, and he had a right to use it. Why was the clause inserted, if it was to be considered a violation to act upon it ? Then the amendment went on to say : “ And this Council hereby records a protest against any Government being appointed to. or holding-office under such circumstances.” It was extraordinary to ask the Council to substantiate that. Tho Council made an enactment that the Superintendent might choose his advisers, and the Province looked to him to select them. He would be no party to such a resolution. The lion, member for the Taieri professed a wish to keep the personal question out. It was mockery to say so. No one regretted its being a personal question more than he (Mr M‘Lean), and "none would regret it more hereafter than the lion, member himself. He contended that there was no reason why his sins should be visited on his colleagues. Would not the same train of reasoning apply to visiting those sins upon those gentlemen on the Government benches ? It was astonishing how men could reason from themselves, but not to themselves, when it suited. Mr Reid explained that ids colleagues were equally appointed by the Council as himself, and the gentlemen on those benches were usurpers, so far as the Council was concerned.

Mr M'Lean said hon. members must know the Executive was not appointed by the Council. The argument was specious, but the hon. member knew better. Much had been said about Mr Waterhouse’s resignation, and it was asked what would have been thought if the Governor, instead of sending for Mr Vogel, sent for Mr Stafford ? He did not know what the Assembly might say, but the hon. member for the Taicri would have called him a sensible man who knew his business ; but it was known outside, and in Parliament, that the Governor did not choose his Premier from the majority, but one who had not held that office before, aiid Mr Vogel consented, rather than allow a third break-up in one session. Had there been a desire to keep out personalities, he would never have said ‘ ‘he wished the hon. gentleman to show what he had done to entitle him to hold office.” Was it necessary before a person took office to shew what ho bad done ? Was he (Mr Ecid) not once sitting on those benches with a gentleman whenever held office before, but who had been trained in mercantile and monetary business ? Did ho ask him what he had done before taking office to entitle him to sit alongside of him? No, he knew he was a good business man—the best business man in the Colony at the time. And those gentlemen who formed the Executive had been all their life-time fitting themselves in the best of schools. They were asked what entitled them to be there ? What training had the hon.' member for the Taieri had to justify hjs being in the position they occupied ? There had been a phange,' however, during the past twenty years, when a Taieri farm was looked upon as a school for politics. Many people like those gentlemen had left positions higher than they ijo w occupied, materially and socially, and the time hail arrived when every fine in the Colony should he qpen to the highest seat in the Legislature, whether he had been twenty years or twenty days in the Colony. The next grievance was—and, ho believed after all, that was the grievance—he ought to have put that land law into operation. All knew that he had been nearly five years concocting that law, and the grievance was, after being matured, it would not work. There was not a single clause that did not contradict some other, and it would not work unless administered by astute persons. The hon. member’s notion was to find a set of men to work it, irrespective of any Act at all. He {Mr M'Lean) thought that claim, the land question, was worked out. It had proved a shicer, and so he fell hack on the constitutional one, which he would find to he a duffer. Th his speech the hon. member spoke of leading the Province into expensive litigation. Had he nothing to do with a Government that sent a case to the Privy Council, and if the Council gained the case, all the value of the property would go into the pockets of English lawyers ?

Mr Reio said it was not tho Government to which lie belonged that sent it. Mr M'Leax said it was the Government to which he belonged that caused the difficulty. With regard to what- the hon. member said as to the consequence of the Council rejecting the amendment, he did not think it would be influenced by the hon. member, however much they respected him. It was said the Superintendent had eiceeeded his powers, hut it was beyond question that he had power to act as he hail done. The Provincial Secretary moved the adjournment of the House to two o’clock next day. The Speaker explained that the effect of carrying that motion would he to shelve all the questions before the House. The motion was opposed by Messrs Cpttex, Kkid, and DI'XCAX ; and it was withdrawn. Mr Ci ttex said the hon. member for the Taieri, in introducing his amendment, had swept away the ground for further arguments on the question at issue. The last speaker had converted it into a personal affair. He did not object to it, for there must he to some extent personal animus in it; and in pointing to the Waterhouse affair as a precedent, the argument was unanswerable. Had the Governor taken a similar course to the Superintendent, the whole country would have been in arms, as it would fcave given the minority command in

face of a majority. Tbo mover of the Address knew the constitutional question must fall to the ground if discussed. What would bo the use of forty members discussing bow money was to be spent, if immediately afterwards one had a right to overrule the resolutions of the Council; and that was the position of the Land Bill ? (“No, no,” from several members.) The constitutional principle was that the Superintendent could do no wrong, and therefore the punishment must be visited on his Executive. No doubt one man could conduct the affairs of New Zealand with an efficient staff; but in order to healthy government, some form was required,- and if the Executive were not immediately turned out of office, responsibility would be abandoned. They would be bound to turn them out. The last speaker did not understand responsible government. Of course the .Superintendent had power to dismiss his Executive. The Queen might do so, and raise a civil war. She had the power, but not the right; and the Executive had no right to take office, although they had the power to take it. As to the Executive being taken by surpi ise, it was not likely the glove would be thrown down without the challenge being accepted. In order to dismiss Mr Reid, the Superintendent was obliged to come down. He did not know by what means the member for Lawrence had been induced to leive his party. As to Mr Reid’s ability, he had left his mark. It was possible to judge of the way in which the Waste Land Board acted. They acted so smoothly as to deserve support. Mr Reid ought to have had the construction of the Board.. There was little chance of the Bill being worked. There never was a greater farce than to think the deferred payment clause was being carried out. The land for sale should have been distributed throughout the country in large blocks. With regard to administration, large sales of land had been made that were sanctioned by the late Government. Great credit was taken for reducing the debt by L 40,000, butthat was done before they left office. The Provincial Treasurer said, although the credit balance was L3OO, there wore outstanding accounts to the amount of about L 4,000. The overdraft was reduced by Clarke’s sale, for which he was blamed. Credit was taken for attention to the Goldfields, but the tour of tho Superintendent and Mr Bastings was for electioneering purposes. Mr Duncan and Mr Wood supported tho amendment.

Mr M'Dermid explained that he sympathised with the remarks of Mr M‘Lean, and should support the amendment. His speech was an answer to the member for the Taieri.. There was no argument in that gentleman’s speech. With regard to what had been done by the Executive, every vote that could be carried out was expended. (Mr Reid said a letter respecting the Taieri bridge was not answered.) Mr M‘Dekmid thought it was forwarded before the Government took office. jS o bJovemment could remain in office who did not carry out the business of the Council. The Executive desired to carry out the appropriations for public works. What, however, was the system of responsible government sanctioned by the Council ? In the Executive Ordinance there was a certain power, and his Honor adopted it. If the Superintendent had no power to dismiss the Executive, the hon. member for the Taieri had not acted faithfully to the House by retaining his position. If he had power, it became a question whether he exercised it discreetly. Though Mr Reid might not want to go into that question, it might be convenient for others to do so. If ever a case occurred where dismissal was justifiable, it was in the hon. member’s case. There was every desire to treat tho Superintendent with disrespect. Had he not dismissed his Executive, the Province might have blamed him. There were certain members who thought he had not half done Ins duty: what would they have said then? It had been said, if Mr Reid was dismissed, the rest of the Government should have remained. That question was set at rest by the affair of Mr Waterhouse. Then it was said that the Government should be chosen fiom the majority, but last session the hon. member was kept in office by the minority. Mr Armstrong would vote for tho amendment. The Government had done as much for the up-c mntry districts as any Government that preceded it; but he believed the constitution was violated when the Council was not called together for the purpose of forming a Government at the time of the dispute. Ho should vote fDr the amendment on account of the respect ho had for the Executive, for ho thought them in a wrong position : they were in the position of being nominated by tho Superintendent without being sanctioned by the House. If such a position were tolerated, the affairs of the Province would be administered to the satisfaction of the people by his Honor and four or live clerks. There would be no need of a Council at all. He should, therefore, vote for the amendment, to relieve them from their position It being 5.30, the House adjourned.

On the House resuming at seven o’clock, Mr Tolmib rose and said : Before the debate is resumed, I ha\e a few words to say in explanation. Since we met at half-past five o'clock, my colleagues and X have discussed the merits of the amendment proposed by the hon. member for Oamarn country, Dr Webster; seeing that that amendment recommends the Government to send in their resignations, and seeing that it comes from an hon, member who has always given his support to this side of the House, the Government have come to the conclusion, so as not to waste time, to send in their resignations.—(Cheers from the Government side, and cries of “Oh, oh ” from the Opposition.) I therefore move the adjournment of the House. The Si’KAKF.u: The hon. member cannot move the adjournment, having spoken already. The Hon. Mr Bathgatk expressed his intention of waiving his right to speak, to allow the 1 rovmcial Secretary to move (he adjournment’. He did not think any party in the Hmise would for a moment refuse' to follow the constitutional practice of allowing an ad journment;' when'the Government intimated tjjcy had resigned, or that the debate would hV continued after the statement that had been' made. '

Stout certainly thought the position the Government had taken a most unusual, cowardly, and shabby one The Xton. Mr Bathgatk rose to order. He held the word cowardly, as applied to any member of that House, was decidedly unparliamentary.—(Hear.) The SuKAKKit; I did not observe that flic hon. member for Caversham named any hon. member ; but T think the hon. member will see the propriety of refraining from the use of such strong expressions. Mr Stout : The resignation of the Government, in order to burke the question raised by Air Hold's amendment, was -lie would not use the word cowardly— most unseemly. Instead of boldly coining forward and defending thi-ir position, they attempted to sh'ift'the hlkine on to the Superintendent, which' was ‘highly censurable, am) an unfair position to place "the Superintendent in. What was the fact? In the face of the statement in the Superintendent s Address that the (Jovcrnment possessed the confidence of the Council, one of their own supporters came down and moved a vote of censure upon the Superintendent. One of their bitterest enemies could not have done more. The I’rovincial Secretary, in his speech, said he would avoid the constitutional question, as they had nothing to do with it; but that the whole question was, whether they were fit for office or nut. 'I hat was the only idea running tliroii'di Air Tolmie's mind. But it was the constitutional part of the question that had to he considered. Ha (Mr Stout) admitted that the Superintendent had the power to appoint what Executive he chose ; to dismiss the whole or part of the Executive ; hut the Council had the power also to declare that it should have the confidence of the ( onncil. The action now being taken was not without precedent; and he believed, had Air Alacandrew himself been in the Council now, lie would have been the first to take it. In ISfio, Air Alacandrew, then a member of the Council, when speaking against the then Superintendent's action in having altered ttie laud laws without the consent of the I’rovincial Council, was reported to have said : “ If the Council passed this matter over, they would be ignoring their own functions, and their duty was to express disapprobation in unniistakeahle terms. . , . The Council ought to have been called together, for they alone had the right Inappropriate revenue. He thought that reflection must show even the Executive that they had acted very uipviscly iq

attempting td establish a precedent which, if not repudiated, must tend to bring our Const!tutionalGovernmenttowhatmany WcreeVennow not slow to say it was—a delusion and a snare.” Notwithstanding that the Government resigned on that occasion, and that a new Executive came into power who did not wish that the reply to the Address should embody a vote of grave censure for a breach of constitutional usage, the Council, with a full sense of its dignity and responsibility, passed on Mr Macandrew’s motion the following paragraph, which was sent to the Superintendent (Mr Harris);— “ Without pronouncing any opinion at present upon the policy or impolicy of remitting the land tax, we regret exceedingly that any action should have been taken in this matter without the previous sanction of the House. The course which has been adopted by the Executive involves a principle subversive of the functions of this House, at variance with constitutional usage, and is deserving of our gravest censure.” After alluding to the danger of allowing the Superintendent to have the power of dismissing at will an Executive that had the confidence of the House, and selecting a gentleman from the Opposition to form a new one, the iron, member proceeded to discuss the reasons given for Mr Keid’s dismissal. He (Mr Stout) did not look upon it as a personal question between Mr Keid and his Honor. He was aware he was speaking the sentiments of the House when ho said that this Province was not dependent on the administration of one man. —(Hear.) If Mr Reid could be dispensed with, they could also dispense with the services of his Honor. When Mr Reid was dismissed, it was not the man, but the gentleman who possessed the Council’s confidence. And his dismissal was a most peculiar one. Ho could understand his dismissal if Mr Reid, as a Minister of the Crown, had acted as Provincial Treasurer. But when the dismissal took p'ace, no such contingency existed. Mr Reid had his substitute in Otago, and Mr Macandrew was not actually in the position of Superintendent, therefore no incompatibility of offices could have arisen. He next referred to cases in point: Mr Ormond, Superintendent of Hawke’s Bay, while Minister of Public Works, and Mr Bathgate, Provincial Solicitor, while Minister of Justice. Surely there was greater incompatibility between holdingtheProyincial Solicitorship while Minister of Justice. —(Opposition cheers.) He knew it had been said that the hon. member had resigned the Solicitorship when he took office in the Colonial Government, but that was a mere quibble. He (Mr Stout) challenged the Government to produce the vouchers, when the House would see whether or not the person who signed the forms was the hon. member himself. —(Cheers.) Referring to Mr Tolmie’s remarks in reference to the Traquair and Stuart Hundreds, the hon. member said he was surprised to hear Mr Bathgate “hear, hear” when the Provincial Secretary was speaking.—(Cheers.) Not only was the hon. member a member of the Government that was being condemned, but its legal adviser; and he presumed it was on his advice that the steps taken by the Executive were taken. Mr Tolmie seemed to think Maclean v. Macandrew t terrible tiling. He (Mr Stout) did not pretend to say whether the Government acted legally or not; but the hon. member must have forgotten that it was not the Government who went into Court, and that they were urged by a number of the residents of Tuapcka to exercise powers which it was assumed they possessed, and throw open for settlement land included in the Bellamy run ; and, having done so, injunctions came from the Supreme Court, and the matter was subsequent!} fought out in the Courts. Was Mr Reid to Ire blamed (or acting on the advice of his legal adviser? Why this matter of Sir Reid’s admin

istration was brought up, or why bitter anil sneering remarks were made in reference to it, he was at a loss to imagine. There was no necessity for it: the sole nuestion was whetherthcSupcrintendent’s action was constitutional? He had no fault to find with the manner in which the present Executive had acted : he was not aware of anything having been done beyond what the I Council authorised. The only new scheme I they proposed was the removal of some lunatics to Tokomairiro.—(Laughter.) All the other matters referred to in the Address had been brought before the public in some shape or other already. There was the fortifying of the harbor at a cost of from LIO,OOO to Lib,ooo. They knew his Honor’s opinion on the best way of fortifying the harbor—running a railway from Dunedin to the Heads down his own side of the bay ; but after the experience of tip; Colpnial Government in purchasing the Port partway, hp did npt tiling 140,0(10 or 143,000 V'tui'ld pa sufficient for such an object. The progress and present prosperity of the Province were certainly the most surprising things alluded to in the Address. But the two or three months the Executive had been in office could have had nothing to do with them. Everyone knew what Buckle in Ids “ History of Civilisation” said, “You generally find Governments do very little good: thegreat thing they have to do is to do as little harm as possible.” Otago would have been just as prosperous had the present Government not been appointed. It was true that the Executive had resigned: they were afraid to have their actions discussed by the Council.—(“ No, no,” from the Government benches.) If they wore not afraid, ft was most strange, after the Superintendent and pup of fhoir supporters sajd they possessed the confidence of the (louncil, that they should resign. If they were certain they had done no wrong, they should have remained at their posts. They should have said to the Council—‘‘We arc guiltless: you may say what you please,” instead of tacitly admitting they wore wrong, and attempting to throw the blame on the Superintendent and to go free themselves. He saw some members on the Government benches, against whom ho had no grudge; and whom he would like to see in the next Government that might he appointed. He hoped such a dangerous precedent as the Superintendent disuibsingatwillan Executive that possessed the Council’s confidence would not be allowed to be established. Let the Council come forward : and boldly say, “ Not the Superintendent alone, but the Executive is culpable, they having taken office knowing well the whole facts of the case;” and he was sure it would act as a lasting lesson to the Superintendent or Executive, who chose tp disregard the ppinioiis pf'the frpyiuplat C'opnpij. The Him. Mr Bat gate said it would have been more consistent with the constitutional law and practice that were followed in all politic pal assemblies guided by ordinary constitutional laws, if the debate had endpd without a single word more pping spoken, after flic explanation

of t!u- Provincial bpprptitr.V. It. however, hail ilionsr'l tup Opposition to pot forward their "I'eat gun, who liad fired his shot before the debate ploseil- Before speaking to the constitn-. tional part of the question, he desired to refer to some allusions, personal to himself, that had been made, He had been made the scapegoat or the butt of the debate, From the moment the member for the Cloth*, opened the ball, until the wind-up, the Provincial Solicitor had been the word upon which the changes had been mn rr . He Could have fancied that they be. lieveil, and through the Press they wished the country to believe that he had been guilty of some grievous wrong. His facetious friend, Mr Cutter., went the length of saying that be was not Provincial Solicitor : that he was only Provincial Solicitor when there was a salary to draw. —(Laughter.) He (Mr Bathgate) used to have a feeling that when different members of ail Executive differed, good taste required them to hold their tongues aboutauyof their previous Colleagues. But Mr Cutten—the funnyman of the party—had set him an example, and lie had done it in a pleasant way j and it being such a good one, he (Mr Bathgate) would, in the greatest possible good humor, tell the House that it used to be remarked among the members of the Executive of which Mr t’ntten was a member, that Mr Cntten never appeared at an Executive meeting except on the appointed day when his salary was due.—(Lond laughter.) He did not think Mr Cutten would speak to him (Mr Bathgate) about his salary again. He assured the House and, through the Press, the country, that he had never drawn a penny of public money without having donpgood work for jt, The country had got good value, and more than value ; lip had up hesitation in sayinn- so. Hp never allowed pecuniary considerations to influence his actions ; and lie hoped Mr Cutten would he able, after a little more experience to lepeat that, Then there was the member for Clutha—that wiseacre—who went strongly into the law question, and knowing that be spoke with such deference for office, he (Mr Bathgate) was carried away for the jnoment by that learned pundit-the Chairman

of Committees—and began to think there might be something in it; but, on cool reflection, ho connected him with the jackal providing food for the lions, who were the lawyers : no, he did not think that was his right name, which, not being parliamentary, he would not use; but he would ask hon. members to drop the last letter of the word jackall and substitute the “ ss,” which would be it. The question raised by the amendment of the hon. member for the Taieri divided itself into two points: first, its constitutional aspect; and second, the appointment of the gentlemen then occupying tire Government benches, and their retention.of office. Eirst, as to the Superintendent’s position in the matter. Whatever tlio division might have been on either amendment or on the original resolution, it would have been his duty to clear the constitutional aspect of the question, so far as his Honor was concerned ; ami he stated fearlessly, and without any manner of doubt, that not only was his Honor legally justified in every step he took in this matter, but, as the constitutional ruler of the Province, no other course was open to him. —(Opposition cries of “ Oh, oh.”) It had been admitted on all sides that his Honor had power to dismiss his Executive ; indeed that power could not he called in question. There was no need to go further than the second clause of the Executive Council Ordinance, 1865. It gave the power to appoint and dismiss to the Superintendent alone, and not to the House, as some members would like it to be. The true source of power was the people—(cheers) - and upon the action of the Government, and whether or not his Honor had the confidence of the country in regard to it, he believed he was warranted in saying that his Honor was ready to go to the people to-morrow. —(Loud cheers). The Executive Council Ordinance of 1863 made no alteration of the law already laid down. Would any Constitutionalist dare stand up and say that the Superintendent, who was elected, not by the Council, but by the people, could not, if a deadlock arose between himself and his advisers, bring the matter to the proper forum for decisionbefore the people of Otago?—(Cheers.) Having stated what was the undoubted law, he would proceed to take up the other question, and the peculiar circumstances of the case, in the order in which they followed. But before so doing, ho contended thattheamendment of the member for the Taieri was so much waste paper: was ultra virtu of the House. The House had no right whatever to dictate how tire Superintendent, who was head of the Government, and elected by the people, should act in regard to iris Executive. It was beyond the Council’s powers ; and they were attempting more than they could legally do. What was really occupying the time of the House was only a personal dispute between the former head of the Executive and the Superintendent. They might disguise it as they would— talk of Constitutionalism as much as they pleased—but that was the real truth, and but for this mere personal squabble between his Honor and the former head of the Executive, tin's splendid constitutional motion would never have been brought before the House for its consideration. What had happened? He (Mr Bathgate) happened to know more about what took place than any gentleman present.—(Mr Reid Hear.”) It was well known that the hon. member took office under Mr Stafford : that happened on Septemoer 6, 1872. Several members of the Assembly - -persons of all shades of political opinion—thought that a gentleman could not hold the office of Minister of Public Works, which required that his whole attention should he concentrated in his duties, and also act as chief responsible adviser to the Superintendent in Otago. There had not been the slightest argument on the other side to justify such a proposal; they rather shirked that part of tho question. The Superintendent was on the spot, and might have been consulted with; and he (Mr Bathgate) knew lie felt it very much. [Mr Reid: The Superintendent never was on the spot; tho member for Port Chalmers was,] The Superintendent spoke to him (Mr Bathgate) on the subject after ten days had elapsed; and told him that Mr Reid had not spoken to him as to what his intention in reference to the Provincial Secretaryship was; and said he would write him a letter calling his attention to the point. He (Mr Bathgate) also believed that the Superintendent told him several members had spoken to him on the subject, He (Mr Bathgate) said to Ids Hqnqr “ Do nut write ; I as a friend will sneak to Mr Reid on tho subject"— (hgarj -aud be took occasion to speak to otv Reid, and laid the point before him. But Mr Reid happened to lie on his high horse, and treated him with an amount of personal rudeness and discourtsey, which he certainly did not deserve at his hands. Had the member for the Taieri on that occasion treated him with the ordinary courtesy of a gentlemen, all that afterwards took place would never have happened; and it was unfair for him now to attempt to put obloquy ou an absent man, which lie did not deserve. In consequence of what happened, he (Mr Bathgate) said to himself, “ 1 shall never give Mr Reid a second opportunity of being rude to me.” Mr Reid had treated him with such rudeness, and his remarks were made in such a loud tone, that tile attention of several members of the Assembly who wore in the library, where the conversation took place, was drawn to what was going on ; and lie (Mr Bathgate) felt a little small. However, lie pocketed the affront. It was due to the Superintendent to say that his Honor from the first showed that lie was anxious to exercise the duties of ids office, and treat Mr Reid, as the head of his Executive, with the greatest possible kindness ami courtesy.—(Cries of “Oh, oh.”) Itwasuot for the Superintendent to come down from his high position and treat with any member of ids Executive : it was the duty of any member of the Executive, if circumstances required him to do so, to seek the Superintendent. The hon. gentleman next commented on the correspondence between ids Honor and Mr Reid. His Honor, in writing the letter of Sept. 16, calling Mr Reid’s attention to Ids anomalous position, had done nothing discourteous in the slightest degree; on the contrary, had excised Ids hounden duty as head of tjip Government, with a view to having jha affairs of the Province propprf y parried qif.—(Hear.) 'Mr Reid’s reply should have had the postscript—“ This is written sarcastically.” All his speeches and writings were rather much tinged with it. It was Ids failing, and he spoiled admittedly gqod ijualities by that absurd habit of sayeasip and dpscontcntedness. Sir lipid ligd hyep dizzied by his temporary high position : had forgotten Ids true relation to the Superintendent: considered lie was so muck above Idm as to be able to look down upon him, and administered what lie thought an attempt at good snubbing, but which lie (Mr Bathgate) tbflUgkt cvepy right-thinking >n»n wmlid emnddpr a piece of intense vulgarity. There was not the slightest attempt in the correspondence to vindicate his position ; and had any good and valid reasons beep given why his Honor’s views should not have been given effect to, no doubt they would have been considered. But after the discourteous letter of September 1(1, there was nothing left for him but to remove Mr Reid. That Mr Reid did not accept ttie olive branch that was held out, and retake ffice was ids weakness. He was of an unforgiving disposition I If a man offended him in politics, be never forgave him : and instead of accepting the offer in tiie kindly and courteous spirit in which it was made, he sent the discourteous reply before referred to, which necessitated Ids dismissal. In consequence, lie was gazetted out on November 19, He (Mr Bathgate) had no hesitation ill saying that the time (if the country was now being taken up by a wretched, miserable, personal quarrel, and lie was sorry to see a majority of the Council identifying themselves with such a dispute. With regard to the second part of the question. The present Government had taken office with great reluctance, and at great personal sacrifice, and had reason to believe, up to the time they met the House, thatthey possessed the confidence of the country. It was a notorious fact that it was only from forbearance that on the last day of th 6 last session a resolution of want of confidence in the Executive of the day was not brought forward: and but for that circumstance the then Executive was doomed. He did pot ehrjut from saying sn, He (Mr Bathgate) wju disliked ; Mr Cutten was particularly disliked ; the Secretary for the Goldfields was disliked; and he was notconcealing the fact when lie stated that, with the exception of Mr Reid, they were a doomed lot, ami that the Government, as then constituted, did not possess the confidence of the House.—(Cheers.) The present Executive enme forward to transact the

business of the country till tho House met, and were entitled to the highest credit for hiving done so. He referred to the recent election for Dunedin, and said he had no doubt if the Superintendent went to the country on such a question as this, the people would place him at the head of the poll by a majority ten times as great as that wdiioh he had ou any previous occasion.—(Cheers.) He contrasted the administrative abilities of the Government with those of their predecessors ; and said the former weie entitled to the thanks of the Council for stepping in to fill the breach. His thanks were cordially given because they had done well. It was true, as complained by Mr Thomson, some members of the Government had not had years’ experience ; certainly not experience like that hon. member’s, the length of which seemed to have brought on obfuscation of intellect.—(Laughter.) Rethought, judging by the increasing experience of some members, that the best thing they could do would he to retire, as Paul did, for three years, in company with themselves, ard then come out again as new. —(Renewed laughter.) He concluded by answering the member for Caversham as to the Provincial Solicitorship, and suggesting that the adjournment asked for should he granted. Mr Bastings rose for the purpose of moving that the House adjourn till Monday at two o’clock, and would press his motion. It was the intention of the Government to have moved the adjournment at the earliest stage, only that the Provincial Secretary had spoken. Many members who were not in attendance, owing to business engagements, had sent telegrams advising the Government not to resign; but the Government feeling convinced that the majority of the Council would carry Mr Reid’s amencl■ment, determined there should not be a waste of time and public money in a discussion which would last seven or eight days, and the result he the same. So they had resigned ; and he moved the adjournment to allow those who had brought about this state of things to make arrangements for the future. Mr Reid opposed the adjournment, and intimated his intention of replying at a later stage to the attack upon himself by Mr Bathgate. The motion for the adjournment was then nut and negatived, the voting being as follows ;

Ayes, 13 : Messrs Bastings, Bathgate, Browne G. F. C., Daniel, Fish, Hickey, M‘Arthur, M‘Dermid, M‘Glashan, M'Lean, Tolmie (teller), Turnbull (teller), Webster. Noes, 23: Messrs Allan, Armst oug, Barr, Bradshaw, J. C. Brown, Clark, Cutten, Duncan (teller), Green, Hallcnstcin, Henderson, Hutcheson, limes, Lmnsden. Mcnzies, Mervyn, Mollisou. M'Kenzie, Reid (teller), Shand, Smith, Stout, Sumpter, Thompson, Wood, Mr Shand rose to express the reasons why he did not intend to give a silent vote. He had heard nothing to justify the action of the Superintendent; nor could he see where credit was due to .Mr To’mie. He hold a great deal of Crown land, on which he employed, perhaps, one man to every 40,000 acres. Had he been a man of honor, he would not have taken upon himself the position he had ; while instead of good a great deal of harm had been done by bis appointment to the Waste Land Board. His appointment was a great mistake, and he feared there would be great trouble in getting him removed, vvhich was still worse. Ho (Mr Shand) complained of the small acreage thrown open for sale under the deferred payment system, and said there were 40,000 or 50,000 acres of available land in the Mataura district, and close to the railway, that could be thrown open. To his own knowledge there were 10,000 or 12,000 acres which had been applied for by Mr Logan while Mr Tolmie was Deputy-Superintendent and refused by Mr Cutten and himself, who were then acting as the Government; but which had since been granted to that gentleman. Ho should like an explanation given of why this land was given to Mr Logan without being put up to fair competition. Mr Reid remarked that he felt it due to himself to reply to the vinl-nt attack which hj id been made upon him by the Hon. Mr Bathgate. His speech might be divided into two parts. The first part was made up of a very violent attempt to cast opprobiumupon him (Mr Heid); and, in doing so, the hon. gentleman had made use of language derogatory to his high office, when ho termed certain correspondence that had passed between his Honor and him (Mr Reid) as “ intense vulgarity.” He thought he was justified in saying that the first part of the speech was an unnecessary personal attack upon himself, and that the second part was made up of what was generally' known as clan-trap. The hon, gentleman had referred to what he termed administration. The simple reason why the works referred to were not constructed years ago was that the Province had never had the means to make them. He maintained that the course he himself took in avoiding reference to the personal aspect of the question, in introducing his amendment, was one that commended itself to the good taste and sense of hon. members. It was desirable to banish the personal question from consideration altogether; and he could not conceive why it had been dragged in, unless to fasten upon himself the very coarse and rude teiins which the hon. gentleman had used. How well the hon. gentleman had acted on the admirable suggestion that members of one Government were chary of saying anything in regard to their predecessors’ administration I It was the hon. member himself who had been the weak point of his (Mr Reid’s) Government; and if he (Mr Reid) had staked the fate of Ids Government on retaining him, he thought that that gentleman should turn round and make such an attack as he Bad made that evening was repaying kindness with ingratitude. (I’beers.) The threat held out by the hon. member was most paltry. How would the hon. member himself stand, if he went to the I mil to-morrow? (Hear.) He appeared to think that because at.bis meeting the other night he was allowed to pass off without a severe heckling, and legalise he received a vote of confidence pi him,' that the i»copie of Dunpcrtn were with him. It was just possible to imagine tbatsome membevswho fancied them, selves so secure might find themselves in as un. satisfactory condition with their constituents as any other members. At a]l events, the threat would not debar members from exercising the trust reposed in him. Recurring to the alleged personal matter, lie said—and he did so solemnly—that there had been no personal diiferen e between his Honor and himself during the whole time lie had been associated with him. Political difference? there had been, no doubt; but after their occurrence he had no ill-feeling towards his Honor. In order to show that, there was no personal feeling between them he mentioned that, after all these occurrences, and when the Otago Land Bill was before the Legislative Council, lie consulted in the most friendly manner with his Honor, and had many conversations with him regarding the measure, Therefore, he said, whatever lie might have felt, he had no feeling beyond what related to ids own position as a public man. Referring to his dismissal, he said he never intended nor expected to be able to hold luith the offices of -Milliter of Public Works and Provincial Secretary, for it was impossible to do so, and satisfactorily discharge the duties of both. But what wore the reasons that had led to such summary action lining taken ? Recollecting the speech of MrVogel on his “no confidence” resolution with tlie events that transpired, and with the hon. member for Dunedin’s remarks that evening, lie was of opinion that it was only a deep-laid parliamentary tactic in order to throw odium on the Government of which he (Mr Reid) was a member. He believed it was instigated by political opponents, and unfortunately—for he need hardly say he did not caro for office or its emoluments —his Honor had been easily led by those who advised him. The member for Dunedin had said complaint was made to ids Honor of his (Mr Reid) holding the two offices. But that was not the case while he remained in Wellington. Was not his deputy in Otago? Taking all the circumstances into consideration —his duty to the Council and to his colleagues —lie had no other course open to him than the one he took. The member for Dunedin said, as if it were a great merit, that lie resigned bis Provincial office the day he was appointed Minister of Justice; but there was just this distinction between Mr Bathgate’s case and his; he (Mr Reid) was perfectly well aware that if lie tendered his resignation, seeing that he was the head of the Government, it might be construed as the resignation of Ids colleagues alsiw The reason he did not resign, was, not that he desired to hold office, but he desired to treat Ids colleagues and the Council in a proper and constitutional wanner, The bon. gentleman

had said that if he (Mr Reid) had treated him with the ordinary courtesy of a gentlemm, this affair would never have happened. He (Mr Keid) was not so well versed as to what proper courtesy was as the hon. gentleman ; nor did he know that it was one of the perquisites of a gentleman to call a letter written by a colleaguecoarse vulgarity;” but bethought it exceedingly indelicate that the hon. gentleman should have been the means of communication between his Honor and himself. He (Mr Reid), as chief of the Executive, was the proper channel of communication between his Honor and the Executive, and he thought he very justly resented Mr Bathgate’s action. If he had .spoken at all loudly to the hon. gentleman, it resulted from being aware of his infirmity. The hon. gentleman had also expressed the opinion that had it not been for his strong temper he would have re-accepted office ; but it was a sense of the icspcct due to himself and his position that prevented him from doing so. And after the lapse of time that had occurred, the course he then took still commended itself to him. Seeing it had been attempted to get his colleagues to join another Government, and that Mr Tolmie had endeavored for weeks before that to form a Government, it was adding insult to the injury previously inflicted to j ask him to re-take office. Mr Bathgate had referred to what would happen in the event of a dissolution. His reference to the Superintendent, and his being returned by a majority ten times larger than he had before, was exceedingly indelicate. He (Mr Reid) was not prepared to say that his Honor would be opposed ; and for any- ' thing he knew his majority might be twenty . times greater. When he refered to the Dun- ' edin election the hon. gentleman forget those of Invercargill and Caversham. He seemed to t imagine Dunedin was the country: but there ' was a country outside Dunedin. After alluding I totheGellibrand-Smithapplication, in reference to which he said the action of the Government had been irregular if not illegal, and was a | pandering to popular opinion in order to gain support, ho concluded by expressing the hope that his amendment would be carried before the | Council adjourned. | After a few words by Dr Menzies, the amend - l ment of Dr Webster was put and negatived, and that of Mr Reid carried on the voices. Friday, May 9. The Speaker took the chair at two o’clock. A few notices of motion were given, after which ( The Provincial Secretary said : Before proceeding further with the business on the Order Paper, he wished to make a statement in reference to what transpired yesterday. The Government, finding the feeling of the House was against them on the amendment of the hon, member for the Taieri, tendered their resignations to his Honor the Superintendent last night. He had to inform the House that they had been received, and that the Government recommended His Honor to send for the hon. member for the Taieri as mover of the amendment, and to ask him to form a new Administration. That was the position of affairs ; and the present Government merely held office until successors were appointed He moved the adjournment of the House to Monday at two o’clock. The motion was seconded by the Secretary for the Goldfields, and carried. Monday, May 12. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented ; From William Williams, poundkeeper, Clyde, asking for compensation, his stacks at Dunstau flat having been maliciously set fire to, —(By Mr Shepherd.) From the Mayor and City Council, asking the Provincial Council to pass a resolution, that it is desirable imme mediately to remove the Hillside, Water of Leith, Wakari, and Anderson’s Bay tollbars to a distance of not less than three miles from the City bounds. -(By Mr Fish). unauthorised expenditure. The Speaker laid on the table the following statement of unauthorised expenditure : —Law costs, LI 15 6s 8d ; refund of rent Unive sity reserves, LBCO 9s 81 ; compensation for cancellation of pastoral leases, L4IG IGi 6d ; Kascby Athemeum, L2OO ; purchase of block 5(1, Dunedin, LI, 160; Arrow valley road, 1.1,009 ; approaches to Bannockburn bridge, L 2,000; expedition to Martin’s Bay, LSOO ; Cromwell to Queenstown, L 465; Dunstan to Cromwell, LI20; railways—fitter, smith, and carpenter, LI 80 ; compensation to officers on retirement, assessing runs, Ll2l 17s 6d ; compensation to Mrs Muir, L 2.000; police station, Roxburgh. 1 460 ; harbor reclamation, Ll5O ; do, L 179; Lunatic Asylum buildings, 1.160 ; Government House furniture, L 2,000 ; total, 1.42, 099 9s 4d, NOTICE'OF MOTION. Mr Barton gave notice of the following motion That this Council desires to record its appreciation of the efforts of Mr Plimsoll, M.P. for Derby (England), to obtain a Parliamentary enquiry into bis charges against English shipowners for sending to sea passenger ships overladen, undermanned, insufficiently found, tin seaworthy, and uninsurable. That this Council declares that the colonists of this Province are deeply interested in this matter, having suffered in bodily health and comfort when emigrating to Hew Zealand, and damage to their trading interest, and anxiety regarding life and property at sea. That this Council hopes that the attention of the colonists throughout Australia will be given to this subject, and declares that it will assist Mr Plimsoll with a money vote to aid his defence in the prosecution for libel which the English shipowners have combined to bring against him. That the Government ho requested to telegraph the substance of this resolution to Mr Plimsoll.” message. The following message from his Honor was read :

“ Referring to the amendment to the proposed reply to bis opening. Address to the Provincial Council, the Superintendent desires to .express his regret that a majority of the Council has seen lit to censure the .action which, in the exercise of a public duty and having regard to the public interest, he felt constrained to take in connection with the late Executive changes—action which the Superintendent has yet to Ram was unconstitutional, and which he should feel hound to adopt again under similar circumstances.— (Cheers.) The fact that the leader of the late Executive by accepting office in the Colonial Ministry assumed a position both incompatible with that of head of the Provincial Executive and with his responsibilities to the Provincial Council—amply warranted the Superintendent’s action in the matter—action which was due alike to the dignity of the Provincial Council itself and to the Superintendent’s own position. The constitutional position of the members of the Executive is not as some would have it—to be a check upon and to thwart the Superintendent, but to render him advice and assistance on all questions of policy and in promoting the public interests—advice and assistance which in the nature of things could not be rendered by a Minister of the Crown residing at Wellington. In order to the successful working of the Constitution, of which the Superintendent and the Provincial Council are each an integral part, it is of the utmost importance that more correct notions should prevail as to their position in relation to each other, so that neither may arrogate to themselves the functions of the other. Probably it would serve no good purpose to dilate upon this question at present ; let it suffic ■ to say that the Superintendent deprecates nothing more than being at variance with the Provincial Council: he would willingly sacrifice much in order to work together harmoniously : at the same time he cannot ignore the fact that he has responsibilities equally with the Provincial Council; and he is fortified in the conviction that his action in the matter in question has vindicated an important principle, baa conduced

to the publio good, and baa met with the approval of the people of Otago, to whom ho is primarily responsible. “ Eeferring to his opening Address, the Superintendent had hoped that the Provincial Council would have reciprocated at least some of the opinions expressed by him with regard to various matters bearing upon the advancement .of the Province, instead of which, however, the Council appears altogether to have ignored the matters referred to. As it is, the Superintendent cannot but feel that there is between the majority of the Council and himself an abaenee of that mutual desire for progress, and of that community of sentiment which are so essential to the promotion of the public weal.” “ Under all the circumstances of the case, therefore, the Superintendent is of opinion that it would be better to afford the people an opportunity of electing a Superintendent and Provincial Council which may work together harmoniously, and with which view he respectfully solicits the concurrence of the Provincial Council, in an application to his Excellency the Governor for an immediate dissolution. “J Macandrew, “Superintendent. “Dunedin, May 12 " Mr Cutten proposed to give notice for to-morrow of a question: whether the message just read had been sent with the advice and consent of the Executive? The Provincial Secretary : I will answer the question, and have simply to say that the mssage just read has not been sent vyith the advice and consent of the Executive Council ; and L beg to give notice that, on next sitting day, I will move that his Honor’s message be taken into consideration.

THE UNIVERSITY. Mr Barton asked the Provincial Secretary whether he is aware what stops were taken to obtain from the body of the legal profession the fittest person for the office of Law Reader ; and what steps are being taken to secure the services of the fittest person for the office of Law Lecturer to the University ? The Provincial Secretary : In reply to the question just put, I can only say that the Government know nothing about it; they were not consulted in regard to the appointment, and had nothing to say in reference to it. Apart from that I think as the Government are simply holding office until their successors are appointed, it is not competent for the House to go on with any business. As you arc no doubt aware, sir, his Honor was recommended to send for Mr Reid on Friday last, and if the hon. member for the Taieri has nothing to say, I shall move the adjournment of the House. The Speaker : It is quite competent to go on with the business; and a great deal of formal matter might be disposed of. The Provincial ■‘•ecretary : The Government are not disposed to go on with anything. Mr Barton then gave notice of the following : -

“ That this Council request the Council of the Otago University to lay on the table of this Council the correspondence ttat took place respecting the appointment of a law-reader and law-lecturer to the University, and all the papers relating thereto, together with such other information as will enable the Council to ascertain what steps were taken to obtain from the body of tholegal profession the fittest person for the office of law-reader and law-lecturer.” EXPLANATION. Mr Beid rose to second the motion for adjournment, and explained that on Saturday afternoon he was honored by his Honor’s message, and having waited on him, the Superintendent desired him to undertake the task of forming a new Government. He informed his Honor, as no doubt many hon. members were aware, that as the bulk of members were absent from town on Saturday, he did not expect to be able to make any progress until some time on Monday afternoon. Ho had not been idle in the meantime ; but as many members were still absent he had not yet been able to make any great progress He did not know how far the message just received might affect bis progress. In the meantime he seconded the motion for adjournment, and hoped when the Conncil met to-morrow to be in a position to r port that the names of gentlemen who were likely to possess the conlidenoe of the Council bad been submitted to his Honor, or else that he had abandoned the task. Tuesday, Mat 13. UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE. The Provincial Auditor transmitted the following special orders issued during the current financial year Purchase of block 51, Dunedin, L 520 ; harbor reclamation, L4OO ; Dunedin to Portobelo, L 389 18s fid ; main road to Kuri Bush. L 135 : expenses of Governor’s visit, LI, HU 18s; contract surveys, LLS7 7s lOd ; general contingencies, L 142 Ifis fid ; Southland old debts, L 217 3s 8d ; dredging harbor, LOGO ; salaries, Dunedin and Port Chalmers Railway, L 450 3s 3d; collection of jetty dues, L4l 15s; Tokomairiro to Tnapeka, L 267 ; Shotover bridge, L 740 14s; Lunatic Asylum building, Ll2O 6s fid ; general contingencies, Ll5O ; Moke Creek to Upper Moonlight, LIC2; Approaches to Bannockburn bridge, L 75; Camp Reserve to Duff’s store, LIS!) Ss ; Survey department, L3O ; approaches to Waipahi bridge, LOG; arbitrations and actions, LI 50 10s. Total LG, 197 15s. PRIVATE PETITIONS. The Committee on Private Petitions reported (I.) In reference to D. ami J. Malloch’s petition : That the petitioners had no substantial claim upon the Government. The Committee called the attention of the Government and Waste Laud Board to the fact that leasees of the Crown had been, and in other cases might be, illegally sub-letting; and recommended that the attention of the Government should bs carefully given to the requirements and necessities of the public before any existing reserves he parted with ; and in every case full public notice should be given of the determination to dispose of such, so that they may be open for application by the public.—(2.) William Waddell’s petition : That the case could be more properlydealt With in a court of justice.— (3 ) Petition of William Williams : l hat it was not a case justifying a grant of public money. (4.) Petition of Thomas*Turncr : This case was recommended to the favorable consideration of the Government for compensation for his fencing and improving, and for leave to obtain a freehold, it ho should desire it, in the neighborhood of the land in respect of which bis application to purchase, which had been refused, was made.

The Provincial Skckftaky, in moving the adjournment of the House, stated that, so far as ho understood, the hon member for the Taieri had not yet been able to form a Government; and as the present Government merely held office until their successors were appointed, they did not intend going on with any further business ; and therefore, in order to give that hou. member every opportunity of forming a Government, he moved the adjournment of the House until Thursday, at two o’clock. Mr Keiij explained that he had not yet been able to submit the names of a new Government to his Honor the Superintendent, nor had ho yet been induced to relinquish his task. He, the’efore, seconded the motion for the adjournment. Mr M'Clashan thought the Council should have some sort of idea as to the pro-

gresa the hon. member for the Taieri was making in the tarnation of a new Government. His statement that ho had not ye ■ made sufficient progress was very indefinite. It was possible the nex* diy nr next week might elapse before he had done so. The Council knew very well, whan the amendment to the Address was brought down, the hon. member for the Taieri stated he would put out some members now on the Government benches, and would do so now ; and seeing that he was so sure of his position, he should have been at once prepared to como down and take possession of the Government benches.—(“Oh! oh!”) Itaup arod to him they were trifling with the country altogether, and at an expenditure which would have made several roads and bridges; probably a road from the .North-cast Valley to Blueskin. Surely the hon. member was able to state specifically whether he was prepared to bring down the natri'-s of the new Government, or whether he would give up the task iu despair. Mr Barton moved as an amendment that the House adjourn until this evening at seven. His reason was that he thought the position of affairs was very peculiar. Either the hon. member for the Taieri ought to be able to form a Government without difficulty, or he could not form one at all.— (Fear.) As he entered the House he had been informed of the names of two of the proposed Government; and as he understood the present temper of the House, it was utterly impassible that they could command the confidence of the Council, or indeed of the public. At all events, so far as he was concerned, he would feel compelled to oppose such a Government.— (Cheers.) Hehopcd there would be no waste of time ; as he would have to ask the House for leave of absence for a time, and had desired to take some part iu the matter, though he had not done so up to the present.

Mr Fish seconded the amendment, but did not wish to throw any obstacles in the way of the member for the Taieri, in his negotiations for the formation of a new Government. Still, he thought the time of the House was being unnecessarily and wantonly wasted. It appeared to him, and he said it with a great deal of diffidence, there had been ample time since the amendment of the member for the Taieri was carried, to enable him to form a conclusion as to whether or not he could form a Government that would possess the confidence of the Council. If he had not already succeeded in his attempt, he feared his chance of success was very small indeed. He could not help alluding to certain rumors which had reached his ears; ana it appeared he was not singular in the matter, for his colleague—Mr Barton—had heard something more than rumors. If the rumor he had heard as to some gentlemen who were to form the new Government was coirect, there was no use in frittering away the time of the Council, because he felt perfectly certain that such a Government could not command the confidence of the Co mcil. The hon member ought either to declare his ability to form a Government, or recommend his Honor to send for a gentleman on that side of the House to form one.—(Hear.) He was astonished to find such a‘want of organisation among the gentlemen opposite. He would have thought that when the amendment on the reply‘was brought down, the Opposition would have come to some conclusion as to what was the result of success on their part; and would have selected from their ranks gentlemen to displace the Government. In the lute debate, which was only memorable for the amount of nonsense that was talked—(hear)—the hon. members opposite had not said one word against the present Executive : they did not challenge one single act of theirs j nor anything they proposed to do. He repeated that the Opposition should have been prepared : and he entirely dissented from the time of members being wasted from day to day, in allowing the member for the Taieri to mature his futile jplans for the formation of a Government, which, when formed'—if the rumours he had referred to were correct—would not last far a day.

Mr Heui desired to express his very great thanks to the member for Dunedin (Mr Fish) for his advice, which was entitled to g eat weight from the long experience of that member on matters of the kind. But when he cams forward to lecture and instruct members who had had much greater experience than he of the condition of parties, it would be well for that member to mature his ideas a little, in order that he might form a more correct estimate of the feeling of the Council. He (Mr Reid) had heard with surprise the remarks of Mr Barton—remarks which that hon. member’s knowledge of parliamentary practice should have informed him were out of place at the present time. What length of time had elapsed ? What great delay in public business had occurred since he (Mi Beid) had been entrusted with the task of forming a new Government? He was entrusted* with the task on Saturday after the bu kof the members wbo resided in the City and suburbs had departed for their homes ; and ho had no opportunity of consulting them earlier than mi - lay on Monday; and, according to tbs order paper, this was 1 uesday. Ho had put himself in communication with gentlemen —being desirous of allaying, if possible, the bitterness of party which had existed ; and had endeavored to make advances to them in order to form a Government which would not only meet with as much support as possible from both sides of the House, but hold its position until the termination of the session. Ho had only received an answer from the gentlemen to whom the overtures wire made on Saturday afternoon, at one o clock that day. It was, therefore, almost impossible to make overtures in another direction before that time. Whilst he and those who were acting with him were desirous of forming a Government, if possible from both sides of the House to a certain extent so as to carry on fairly and immediately the business of the country—though the party with which he acted was itself quite powerful enough to hold its own with the Council and the Province—(hea')- - if they were to be m t in the unseemly way they were that afternoon, the course that would commend itself to him would be to form a Government from among his own party.—(Hear.) He regretted very much that Mr Barton should have so very suddenly —and he thought quite unnecessarily—(hear)—and, in the circumstances, so un-called-for a manner have submitted his amendment, which he hoped would not be agreed to With reference to the observations of the member for North Harbor, he knew that gentleman was annoyed that he (Mr Raid) should have taken any part in the discussion ; but his attempt to get up a storm about waste of time would be estimated at its proper value. He (Mr Reid) was desirous of forming a Government that would command a clear working majority, and which would, if possible, work in harmony with all sides. He hoped that the Council would show more respect for its own deliberations than agree to the amendment. Mr Wood ,vas understood to point out that the amendment was tantamount to an expression of want of confidence in the hon. member tor the Taieri. Mr Bauton said that what he meant by his motion was that he had no confidence in cither the present Government, or Mr Reid, upon this subject. Mr Reid explained that the proposal for adjournment did not come from him.

The Provincial Secretary thought the | adjournment till Thursday should bo granted, in order to give Mr Reid not only time to tarn a Government but to consider the affairs of the country, in order that he might he prepared to go on with tha business on Thursday. Apart from that: as there would he an incoming and outo nning English mail on Wednesday, he thought it would he for the convenience of many members who wei a connected with business to adjourn till Thursday. Mr Barton was quite willing to adjourn till Wednesday, but still entertained tha opinion previously expressed that the diffl. culty of forming a Government was not one that could be got over by time. In moving his amendment, he had intended no dial courtesy towards the members of the Govern, ment, in whom he had expressed that he had no confidence, nor towards the member who had been charged with the formation of a new Government, in respect of whom he made a somewhat similar expression of opinion ; in other words, he me?,ut no personal discourtesy, and as it had been thought personally discourteous, he would withdraw it altogether. It was only moved because he thought the time of the House was being wasted, because, if the member for the Taieri did not succeed that night, he was not likely to succeed at any time.—(“Oh, oh”), " ’ Mr Stout said that Mr Barton had un. thinkingly moved his amendment, and without understanding its meaning Mr Barton said he knew its meaning perfectly well. He was determined that in no sense should he be a party to any expression by the Council of want of confidence in the Superintendent. (Hear.) Mr Stout was not aware that want of confidence in his Honor had ever been ex. pressed. He was certain that the Council and his Honor could work very well together. Want of confidence in the Superinten. dent had never been mooted in any of the speeches in the late debate; the Council knew that bis Honor well expressed the feel, tags of the community, hue the Council found fault' with him ou a mere constitutional question.

After a few remarks by Mr M'Lean and MrM‘GLASHAN, Sir F. L). Bell said he hoped the member for the Taieri would not be discouraged by what had been said from endeavoring to introduce a spirit of conciliation between the two leading parties in the Council, in order that the very large questions affecting Otago -the importance of which had not yet attracted attention—likely to come before the Assembly might be considered in a manner that would help the Otago members m their efforts to see justice done to the Province. The motion for adjournment till Thursday was then put and carried.