PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Dunstan Times, Issue 319, 5 June 1868, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

(Abridoid trom the " Daily Times) Tcesday, May 2G. Mr. Mou.at moved, "That the Council considers it desirable that an Act be introduced into the General Assembly, to provide that the system of agricultural 1 as s should be brought into operation in Hundreds that may be proclaimed wthin goldfields or in any Hundreds in which there may ba auriferous land." He should very much like to see uniformity in the land laws of the province. Three-fourths of the province were dealt with under the Goldfields Act, and the remainder under the AVaste Lands Act. A great deal of inconvenience was the result, and he feared that, as tho Hundro !s encroached upon the Goldfields, still greater inconveniences would arise. Ho was satisfied that it would be an advantage to extend the leasing system. He was fortified in that opinion hy the result of a similar system in Victoria, and he was also fortified by the general feeling of satisfaction with which the system was recived on the Goldfields, notwithstanding the vantages under which it labored, great advantages were the smallness of tie holdings, and that'provision was made fc r pasturage. What would be most advantageous would be a combination of the two systems—the leasing system of the Goldfields, and the system of allowing pastur. ago, as in the Hundreds. He did not wish to press his motion, but he would like to hear some discussion on the subject, and if the motion were adopted by way of experiment, they might see the proprietjMf adopting the system throughout the entire province. The Provincial Secretary could not agree with the concluding portion of the motion. To the other parts he thought there might be no objection. Mr. Hughes could not approve of tho resolution as it stood, but he should like to see tho honorable member bring up 6ome definite resolutions on the subject. Mr. Haughton agreed with Mr. Hughes, and suggested that the motion should ba withdrawn for the present. Mr. Vogel moved the adjournment of the debate, in order to allow a notice of motion for the following day. Mr. Haughton the question of adjournment, and intimated that he intended to speak till half-past 5. The Speaker interrupted the honorable A member, to afk a question with reference to M I

a motion on the paper as to Government business taking precedence for the remainder of the Session. After some explanations, The Speaker asked if there were any notices of .question. Mr. Haughton rose to object. He was in possession of the House on the question of adjournment. The Speaker requested the honorable member to resume his seat. Mr. M'Dermid gave notice that, at the next sitting, he would move, "That this Council has no confidence in the present Executive." Some reports were laid upon the table by the Secretary for Land and Words, and the House was adjourned. Wedxeday, May 27. Mr. Vogel was called upon to resume the debate on the following motion by Mr. . Mouat:—"That the Council considers it I desirable that an Act be introduced into I the General Assembly, to provide that the system of agricultural leases should "be brought into operation in hundreds that may be proclaimed within goldfields, or in any hundreds in which there may be. auriferous land." Mr. Vogel said that he understood the honorable member for the Goldfields (Mr. Mouat) desired to withdraw the motion, and, to assist the honorable member, he (Mr. Vogel) would move the previous Question. Mr. Haughton seconded the motion, and it was agreed to. Mr. Fraser presented a petition from residents at Manuhcrikia, and gave notice of a motion referring it to the Committee on Wekatip Puns. Mr. Shepherd moved, "That the petition of certain residents in the Mount Bengor District be referred to the Government for their consideration." The petition had been signed by four hundred and twelve residents, who petitioned that the interests of their important district might not suffer by any action of the Government upon the recommendations of the Goldfields Commission. The petitioners did not say that Switzer's should not have a Warden, but that it would be detrimental to the interests of their district if the Warden were to be removed. The prevailing feeling was that the report of the Commission was not the " correct thing" in the interests of the Goldfields, and if the Commission had not taken any more notice of some places than they have taken of Macetown, where they stayed thirty minutes on a wet day. when the miners were unable to wait upon them, lie did not think much weight could bo given to their recommendations. He trusted that the Government, in any arrangements, would arrange that, instead of the miners travelling to the Warden, the Warden would travel to tho miners. The matter of the petition was not so much a matter for the Council as fur an Executive in whom the Council had reliauco. Mr. Haughton seconded the motion. The Provincial Secretary promised that tho Government Would consider tho question on its merits, and do what was light towards the miners. Tiii'usdav, May 28. The order of the Day for going into Committee of supply having been road, Mr. M'Dennid moved, " That this Council has no confidence in the present Executive.', Mr. Tayler seconded the motion. Mr. Duncan would support the motion, but not with the least desire to again occupy aseaton the Government benches. Ho would not have continued to hold office during the recess, had he not considered it his duty to his constituents to do so. There had been strong attacks upon the late Provincial Secretary and Treasurer; but the House should remember that, but for the known ability of that honorable member (Mr. Vogel), and the action which he took last year, Provincial institutions would not have been in as goo la position as they now were. He (Mr Duncan) was in the late Government during twelve months and he was in the Government during 1864. The honorable member (Mr. Vogel) was the most honorable man with whom ho had had anything to do in connexion with public affairs; and he believed that if there was to be a general elec tion to-monow, that honorable member would be again returned by a larger majority than any other member of the House would have.—( Oh ! oh ! ) The ability of tho honorable member was not questioned: and he had used his ability most abvanta- . geously for the Province.—(Cries of "No, "; no," and " Hear, hear," ) As to the Land Policy of the new Government, they were adopting, in some respects, thecourse which they had so recently repudiated; and as to Hundreds, the late Government had always been willing to recommend the declaration of one, wherever it was-shown, by fair inquiry, that one was required. Mr. Mollison supported the motion. Mr. Burns charged the Government with having no policy, except that of stopping public works, and. so bringing the Province to a stand-still, as it were, because the members of the Govrnment had not sufficient brains to enable them to see ten daysjdn advance.—(Laughter.) By a majority of one, this Government had hopped into office ; and now they were going to throw out of work hundreds, or thousands of men, simply because the Government could not see how to provide for the payment of wages. The Province would not submit to such a policy. Public works must, and would be carried on, despite the present Government. Merchants were, and might well be terrified, at the prospect of having in office four such men as now formed the Government. Such opinions as the Provincial Secretary expressed yesterday, when they came from the lead of a Government, were ■enough to paralyse monetary transactions in any country. Mr. M'lndoe intended to Tote against the

Government, because he had not confidence in their intended policy. He had not been a factious opponent of the late Government. He could not give them support upon their general policy ; but he agreed with their financial policy. He saw that the present Government not only represented one interest only, but that they intended to ignore all other interests. For that reason he could not vote with the Government. Mr. Vogel disliked disceit ; and he felt sure there was deceit as to the Government. He believed that tho vacant seats were only being kept warm for members whom the Secretary dared not name to the House. That was a course which should not be countenanced. The Provincial Secretary : It is one you adopted, at all events. Mr. Vogel denied the statement. There was no member added to his Government after the prorogation, until the general election necessitated a change, one member not being re-elected to the House. He would not for a moment sit on the Government bench desiring a colleague, and yet afraid to name him to the House. He must repeat that it was a great piece of presumption to pretend that the present Government was one fairly representing the Opposition by which the late Government was defeated. No such thing ; it was a Government got up in a few hole-and-corner meetings without any promise of support from the general' body of the late Opposition, and trusting wholly to the generosity of those who really composed the late Opposition. The Provincial Secretary and others were fond of wholly misrepresenting the action of the late Government as to leases of runs. The Secretary had railed against the covenants made by the late Government. These covenants were worth to the country, he (Mr. Vogel) knew not how many thousands of pounds. There was probably not a run-holder who would not be glad to pay money to escape from the covenants. Would the Secretary venture to propose to the House to get rid of the covenants? The honorable member knew that he dared not propose any such thing. When the honorable member condemned the action of the Government as to the leases—quite apart from the covenants —was he not still aware that the runhol 1ers very much regrette 1 now, that they had agreed to pay an assessment of 7d per head for sheep? The Secretary had referred to the action of the late Government as to the Goldfields, last session ; but the honorable member know that, dtspite threats of prosecutions, the late Government pursued so legal, yet so firm a course that, except in matter of form, that Government got for the Province all it wanted. The Province had now the control of the Goldfields. If the honorable member had had the conduct of the matter, would not that control now be in the hands of those whom in his heart, the honorable member espoused. There was an exaggerated egotism in the Secretary's talk about a dissolution. Why should it be? There was no great question ~n which to appeal to the country —the appeal could simply be, whether the present Government should continue to hold office, as agains a Government v hich had been in office now for three sessions. That tho late Government had a claim to a dissolution, because of the factious opposition to which they were exposed, he admitted ; but the late Government had tho interest of tho Province at heart, and they looked on the Opposition as- ephemeral—as not worthy the notice which would be given to it, if a dissolution was asked far. It was one of the greatest shams ever perpetrated when the present Government pretended that they could secure the declaration of Hundreds, and have the land surveyed and sold, so as to get revenue that could come to account during the remainder of the financial year ; and that pretence might be taken as a guage of tho sincerity of the professions of the Government. It had been asked what interests the late Government represented. There was an interest that the Secretary did not represent—that of the working classes. A more autocratic individual than the Sec retary, on that subject, could not be found he even thought that there should be a legislative enactment to reduce wages. The Provincial Secretary : I say positively that I never hell any such opinion. What is more, tho laboring classes will bear very different testimony as to my character, from that ventured upon by the honorable member. Mr. Vogel knew the Secretary's opinions very well. Immigration as a means of settlement, indeed ! No, the Secretary lookel upon immigration only as a means of getting cheaper labor on the Taieri farms. The distress that would follow a* stoppage of public works—if such a stoppage was the policy of the Government—seemed not to be thought of by the Secretary ; but it would lie very grievous, nevertheless. The Provincial Secretary : It will soon com . Mr. Vogel • The Secretary might be glad to be able to say to the farmers, "See what I have done for you, by giving you cheap labor " The House constantly heard that the small farmers were entitled to Hundreds—that they were entitled to runs taken away for them, if they wanted to keep sheep or cattle; but it could not be supposed that the farmers were entitled to have labor supplied to them, by indirect means, at l«ss than market rates. Mr. Mosley replied to Mr. Vogel, a3 to the working classes. Mr. Hughes moved. " That a division be now taken. On a division, there voted— Ayes,'l6 : Messrs Burns, Duncan, France Fraser, Hughes, Main, M'Dermid, Mlndoe Mollison, Robertson, Seaton, Shand, Silbald, Tayler, Turnbudl, Vogel. Noes, 13 : Messrs Barr, Clark, Green, Haughton, Henderson, Hutcheswi, Mitch-

ell. Mosley, Muir, Murray, Reid, Shepherd, Thomson. Pair: For, Mr. Driver; against, Mr Mouat. Friday, May 28, ' Messers Vogel, Duncan, Haggitt, M' Dermic!, and Hughes, tpok their seats on the Government benches. A message from the Superintendent was read intimating that consequent upon the resignation of Messrs. D. Reid J. W. Thomson, D. Hutcheson, and H. Clark, he had appointed Mr. J. Vogel, to be Provincial Secretary and Treasurer; Mr. George imncan, to be Secretary for Land and Works; Mr. B. 0. Haggitt, to be ProvincialSolicitoa; Mr. Hugh M'Dermid and Mr. John Hughes to be members of the Government without office. The Speaker said that the Superintendent had also forwarded a copy of the "Gazette" of May 29, containing announcements of the appointment of Messrs. Vogel, Duncan, Haggitt, M'Dermid, and Hughes, to be members of the Executive Council of the Province' Ehe Speaker read the first Order of the Day—Committee of Supply. Mr. M'Dermid said he presumed it would be expected that he should say a few words on what had transpired during the day.— (Hear, hear,) He had been " sent for " by the Superintendent, in consequence of the vote come to last night, and of the resignation of the Government which had resulted from that vote. In the course of the afternoo, he had submitted to His Honor the names of the gentlemen who now sat on the Government benches. It would be out of place for him to say anything further —("Oh no," "Goon," and laughter)—for it would be readily understood that the honorable member for Dunedin, Mr. Vogel, had been elected as the leader of the Government. —("No, no," "M'Dermid," "You're the leader," &e.) He had no statement of policy to make.—(Hear, hear,.) There was, he thought, no necessity for any statement, --.(hear hear)—seeing that the new Government was almost the same as the old one, and their policy was sufficiently well known to the House.—("Hear, hear," and "Too well known. " ) To put in order members who might wish to speak, he would move"That Government business take precedence for the remainder of the session. " Mr. Burns seconded the motion. Tho Speaker said that he would take the proposal as to Government business as an amendment on a motion to go into Committee of Supply. Mr. Shepherd opposed tho amendment. The position of members in tho House showed that the struggle now was between j the outlying districts and Provincial CenI tralism. The change in the Government j had been anything but a satisfactory one, and the House ought not, by passing the j amendment, to shelve important motions, including one, standing in his name, fur a ! dissolution of the Council. j Mr. Haughton said ho found that the ! Provincial Secretary had, at a previous sit- j ting, talked about his (Mr. Haughton) having the kite Government in bis bands as ] puppets. Honorable members on his side ; knew what truth there was in that, lie! had worked very cordially with members on his side, and he hoped to continue so to work until they had destroyed thi> faction now represented on the! lovcrnment benches Acant phrase with the Provincial Secretary was " bringing Provincial institutions into contempt," and the Provincial Secretary had charged him (Mr. Haughton) with acting with that object and effect. The Provincial .Secretary said that tho Government pledged themselves, if the amendment was passe 1, not to make any attempt to preclude the bringing on of any business on the paper, or to shut out anything that should be fairly brought before the House. The amendment was put and carried, there voting—ayes, 10 ; noes, Id. The Provincial Secretary moved, "That this Ho use do now resolve itself into Committee of Supply." Mr. Shepherd (after several interruptions on points of order and on a claim of precedence) moved, as an amendment, " That it is both expedient and desirable that this Provincial Council should lie dissolved, f:o that new elections may take place about the first day of September next It is therefore expedient that an Address be forwardel trf his Honor the Superintendent, praying that he would agree with the above resolution, and that be would request his Excellency the Governor to give it practical effect, in accordance with Clause 13 of the Constitution Act." He said that it would not be necessary to give many reasons why the amendment should bo agreed to, as reasons already had been given by members on both sides of the House ; and if the pledges made to support the resolution were fulfilled, it would be carried by a largo majority, it was well known, that parties were so equally balanced, that upon most important questions the decisions rested upon the casting vote of the Speaker, and for that reason alone there should be a dissolution. It was impossible to. conduct the business of tho House with such a state of things. There was, no doubt, strong difference of opinion existed upon one of the most important matters, the administration of the Waste Lands Act ; and it would be for tho interest of the Province, if it was appca el to. Ho felt convinced, that tho motion was one which would meet with general approval. Mr. Shepherd by the permission of the House, substituted, in the motion "Decern ber" for "September." Mr. Muir agreed that the state of parties during the session left no other course open but a dissolution. He denied that the Government were justified in charging that theao had been a faction?. Opposition ; there had been nothing of the sort. The Secretary for Land and Works would snppcrt the motion. He reviewed

the discussions on the Land Policy. He declared that as to the declaration of Hundreds, the only diflerence between the Government and the Opposition was this— The Government said, "Let their be enquiry, so as to show where Hundreds are needed, : ' while the Opposition said, "We want Hundreds in certain districts, and we do not want inquiry." Ho admitted that the evidence before the Wakatip Pains Com mittce had caused him to change his opinion that those runs should be sold ; and if the result of Committee inquiries was not to be to help members to form correct opinions, thoroughly based on facts, Commit, tees were of no use whatever. Mr. Henderson supported the motion. The Council had been seven weeks in session, and all the business yet done might easily have been done in twelve or fourteen days. There was so even a division between parties, on certain important ques--ions, that it was evident the business could not be carried on ; members had made the Council a moving spectacle to the public. The Government had not the confidence of the Council. The Provincial Secretary said the question was one of great difficulty, because it affected not only the Council, but the Superintendent. If he was asked his own private opinion, he would say that he was not opposed to a dissolution, and, if he w«S only a private member, he would not give it a strong opposition. The request had been made before, and the Superintendent had refused, Major Richardson had been very indignant, and in his refusal had sai'.l that the decision should have been arrived at in Committee of the whole Hons —the only true field where the sense of the House could be obtained. Mr. Haughton thought that, in the present position of parties, there could hardly be two opinions as to the desirability of a c isolution. It was no doubt a hardship that the Superintendent could not dissolve the Council, without dissolving himself. If it was decided that there should be Provncial institutions—and he would not say that there should not b>—if it was decided that there should be Provincial Government, cither by the present mode or by Local Boards, he thought there should be v little elasticity, and that the Superintendent should have power to dissolve the Council without himself appealing to the country Put in this instance there was a necessity for dissolution. There were two partus equally divided, and the Government had not a workina majority. He was not going to say which party would find itself in the right; but he knew that the whole of the country press were with the side with whi li he was indontitieil, and lie for one was quite prepared to abide the issue. Mr. Hay would vote for the motion, in | order that there might be an appeal to the j country on the great and important ques- j tion, "What shall be the laud policy of the province !" Mr. Burns would vote for the motion. It j would be in every respect better that, in- ' stead 01 the Council continuing to wrangle j about tin- land policy, the decision should j be left to the constituencies. I'pon a division, there voted for the amendment, IS ; against,".. The noes were j Messrs. Muir and Roi'!, who explained that ' they gave their votes with the noes solely that the remit of the debate should be! placed on record on the journals of the j House. I Mr. Shepherd's amendment—a motion in I reality—was therefore adopted.