PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Dunstan Times, Issue 314, 1 May 1868, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

(Abridged from the “Daily Times.”) Monday, 20th April. Mr. r Mouat moved, “That it is expedient to extend the boundaries of the Goldfields, as recommended by the Commission on the Goldfields Regulations, and that an address he presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to give effect to the same.” He trusted the Government would have no objections to the motion. There could be only one objection, but it could not apply, for scarcely any portion of the proposed addition to the goldfields was at all suitable for cultivation. The greater portion of the country was very mountainous, and was not affected by any question which might be raised as to agricultural land. It embraced country chiefly about the Lindis, and between Cardrona and Lake Wanaka, In several instances a considerable amount of capital bad been invested in bringing in water-races, and, unless the districts were included in the goldfields, there was no possibility of affording protection or a legal title to the owners. The Provincial Secretary, in reply, said that wherever it was absolutely necessary to extend the goldfields, to afford protection to miners, it should be done, and he thought it sufficient assurance to the House that the greatest consideration would be given te the recommendations made. Mr. Haughton could, from his own knowledge, state that much gold had been obtained in the districts in question, and it was necessary they should at once be inAftded in the goldfields. *v' v *r. Thomson moved as an amendment, •- That the question of extending the boundaries of the goldfields, as recommended by the Commission on the GoldFields Regulations, be referred to the Government for decision.” Mr. Shepherd had yet to learn that fortunes or money invested in quartz reefs in the Lake district, were to be considered as money lost. As he read the returns, the population of the goldfields was onefourth of tho population of the province, and he considered that a fourth of the propulatlon of Dunedin was also supported by the goldfields. As to the object of the motion, it was well known that many water-races had been brought through runs which were not within the boundaries «{ the goldfield*, and is was possible that

the race-owners would find themselves some day in a very awkward position. Mr. M'Dermid considered the appointment of the Commission by the Govern*' ment, so Soon after they had the manage* ment of the goldfields, to be a sufficient indication of their interest in tne goldfields, and that the matter might safely be left in their hands. Mr. Mouat had not expected such an amount of opposition to the motion. All the Government had to do was to communicate with the Chief Surveyor, and he would at once answer that the country was fit only for mining or pasture. He would have left the matter in the hands of the Government, but they were so disposed to leave such matters untouched that he thought it as well to bring forward the motion. The amendment was put, and on a division there voted : Ayes, 13; Noes, 11, The amemdment was therefore carried. Mr. Shepherd moved, " That this Council is of opinion that the Act of the General Assembly of 1858, intituled ' An Act to make provision for the Regulation and Conduct of Election of Members of the House of Representatives,' requires amendment, inasmuch as the present system is inexpedient and opposed to the fair exercise of electoral rights, and that vote by ballot should be substituted in lieu of the procedure prescribed by the said Act; and that an address be presented to hisj Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to take steps to bring this resolution before the General Assembly, and to cause a Bill |to be introduced therein, to give effect to the same." Mr. Mouat seconded the motion. On a division there voted : Ayes, 19; Noes, 3. Mr. Shepherd moved, " That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to take such steps as he may deem desirable to bring under the notice of the Colonial Secretary the necessity of causing Macetown (or Twelve-mile, Arrow,) to be appointed a polling-plaee for the Electoral Districts of Hampden and the Goldfields for the House of Representatives, and the Electoral Districts of the Goldfields and the Lakes for the Provincial Council of Otago," At Macetown one hundred and fifty miners were employed, and of that number a large proportion had placed their names on the roll, voted at the election of cf the Superintendent, in the Plebiscite, and on other occasions : and he apprehended that it would not have been omitted from the list of polling-places without some reaoon, and without some communication being made to the Colonial Government. Mr. Haughton said that, having seen the notice on the paper, he had called upon Mr. Gillies, the Registration Officer, and had been informed by Mr. Gillies that the reason of abolishing the polling-place of Macetown was : 1. That there was not the requisite number of electors required to constitute a polling-place; 2, That there was no place to take the poll except where liquors were sold, and that he could not recommend such a place. He (Mr. Haughton) had examined the Hampden Roll, and he found the number on the roll was thirty, and of these at least ten were absent. He had had a letter from the Twelve-mile, which led him to suppose that there would be established a building to which there could be no objections as a polling-place, and he had no doubt whatever that, when it was represented that there was such a place, and that the number of eleetors was over thirty, the Registration Officer would have the polling-place re-established. The mover thought some undue influence had been used in the matter, but, had he acquainted himself with the routine, he would have obtained from Mr. Gillies all the information he had now received. Mr. Shepherd found that the honorable member know more about the matter than he had given him credit for. He had still, however, a strong conviction as to thera being other reasons why the people of Macetown had been practically disfranchised. The motion was agreed to. Mr. Haughton moved, "That a Select Committee be appointed to take into consideration the petitions against the sale of the Wakatip Runs, which were laid upon the table by the Provincial Secretary on the 13th inst. Mr. Shepherd seconded the motion, The Provincial Secretary said that the Government had no objection to the appointment of the Select Committee, if the House thought the appointment desirable. He (the Secretary) had been told that there was a re-union between those who though that hundreds should be declared and those who thought that these runs should not be sold—each party to support the other. He would show the House how an agitation could be got np without any grounds for it. But Queenstown was dnll, perhaps, some excitement was needed; though the honorable members were hardly to be congratulated on their success is this case, considering the experience they had had in getting up agitations. In the Lake district there was now a comparatively small population, and there was an enormous area of land unoccupied, except under depasturing licenses. Twelve months ago it was proposed to sell these runs, but the sale was stopped on accoudt of the dispute with the General Government. That being at an end, the necessary steps for carrying out the sale were taken, and then the present agitation was commenced. What was the real meaning of that agitation ? That, not content with having about seventy thousand acres of land left for a small population, it was said that the Government were bound to leave them two hundred and fifty thousand acres also as commonage. The agitation was not carried on by those who were really interested : those persons desired the sale of the runs, knowing that was the best course for them. Could it be desired that the business of runholding should be carried out on a system of commonages ? When

men held two or three thousand sheep and hundreds of heads of cattle, it was to their interest that they should be allowed to become the owners of small runs, and he believed that those persons recognised that fact. Last year there were petitions sent down, and there was a letter accompanying them, which was signed by "H. Manders," who was to be regarded as the prompter, for the present, of the honorable member for the Lakes. [Mr. Haughton.: No, I have ho prompter.] That letter was dated February 22, 1867. It enumerated runs for which the writer believed there would be many bidders, and what the petitions a-ked was that the runs should be sold, not in Dunedin, but in the district. It was the intention of the Government that the sale should be held in the district. They found that there were assessed, in the Queenstown district, seven thousand nine hundred and forty sheep and three hundred and ninetyone cattle ; and in the Arrow district six thousand sheep or small cattle, and nine hundred and eighty-five great cattle. That was the result shown by the licenses taken out between June and Neveraber. The re: returns showed holders of one thousand four hundred, one thousand one hundred Jnd seventy, one thousand one hundred and fifty, and two thousand three hundred sheep, and the signatures to last year's petition, when a sale at Queenstown was asked for, seemed to show even larger ownerships : seven hundred lambs and one thousand three hundred and twenty sheep two thousand, two thousand, one thousand two hundred, one thousand five hundred, and so on. Seeing these returns, the Government thought that the greatest boon possible to such owners of sheep and cattle wsuld be to enable them to purchase small runs on easy terms. It was nonseuce to say that such owners had not money to buy with, A man with two thousand sheep and a small run could procure any facilities he required for business purposes. On the other hand, could it be said that leaving seventy thousand acres of splendid land for agricultural leases, and what was, in fact, commonage (the Arrow block and runs 1, 10, and 11 were proposed to be so left) was not enough for a population of one thousand two hundred and eighty-five men, women, and children, or about seven hundred male adults! Those who had gone in so largely for any industry, without any fixity of land tenure, ought to be glad of the oppor. tunity of buying small runs, and they were glad. When Mr. H. Manders wrote that there were a number of purchasers for these runs, he wrote what was perfectly true. The Bale would be held in the district, and those who were interested would have the fullest opportunity of buying. The most egrcgrious nonsense had been talked and written about capitalists wanting to buy up the land. The gentleman who applied for the land had not the most remote idea of becoming a purchaser. He was interested in the matter in quite another way, as honorable members generally know very well When the present petitioners said that the runs were now stocked up to or over their estimated capacities, this was to bo said—the estimate was a very much lower one than it should be, for any such purpose. J.t was twelve months ago that Mr. Rees estimated the carrying capacity of the runs : and he, (the Secretary) believed he was responsible for the lowness of the estimate. Mr. Rces had recently reminded him, that he (the Secretary) before the estimate was made, said something to this effect: "It matters little whether the carrying capacity is fully estimated ar not. If the estimate, and therefore the rent, is low, the purchase money will be large in proportion." He admitted that, at the time,, money was a great object to the Government; and he understood that Mr. Recs had assessed as for carrying capacity all the year round. Although there was a petition from the Lake district against the sale of the runs, the residents in the district had not sent down word that they could do without works—the requests were always on one side. There were heavy wo-ks p'oposed in the district. The Shotover bridge would cost, probably, between £SOOO and £Booo—£sooo might be estimated at the lowest. The road from Cromwell to the Lakes had cost an enormous sum--£27,000 had been spent on it already. If money was to be spent so liberally, the inhabitants must not grudge the Government a means of raising revenue, when it legitimately presented itself. The present opposition to the sale of the runs was but a mischievous attempt to make political capital by agitation. He did not think the Government had any objection whatever to the appointment of the Committee, if the House thought it desirable to hava a Committee ; and he only wished to get rid of the idea that great injustice and cruelty were about to be inflicted on the district. Mr, Shepherd thought that if there was anybody in the House, who could be called a professional politician, it was the Secretary. The Secretary spoke of the small stock on the runs. Why did he not tell the House what was now the case, not what was six months ago ? The Provincial Secretary : I gave the House the latest returns of asssessments. Mr. Shepherd: The Government should have attended to its duty, There had been &eat neglect in collecting the assessment. J The Provincial Secretary : Really, the Government have nothing to do with collecting asssessment. People have to apply for licenses, and to pay for them, or to be liable to have their stock impounded. | (Mr. Shepherd : And that's what they have done, in many cases. They have run the risk of impounding. The Provincial Secretary : They have done a very laudable thing, then, certainiy. Mr Shepherd believed the Government got as much for assessment as it would get in any other way ; there was now a larger number of men employed than there would be if the land was in a few hands ;

the land remained open for agricultural settlement, and was being rapidly taken up ; and its auriferous nature not being yet com pletely tested, it remained open to the miner, also. Mr. Mouat did not say that he was at all convinced that these lands, or some of them, should not be leased ; but he objected to the manner in which they were being dealt with. Those who had stocked this part of the Province, had as truly occupied new country as any runholder had done, and were, therefore, entitled to as much consideration; but a rack rent was pro: posed to be be taken from one class, while to the other, leases had been given on easy terms, he thought it very probable that what the Committee asked for would suggest leasing to some extent: and he hope d that the Government would riot continue to oppose the appointment of the Committee, — (Several Members : They do not do so at all) The motion wa< agreed to. Wednesday, April 22. Mr. Shepherd moved that the Duty on Gold be abolished at the rate of sixpence per oz. per annum. The House went into Committee to consider the motion. Mr. Shepherd proposed the motion as read. Mr. Mouat seconded the motion. He apprehended that it was asubjectupon which members generally had made up theia minds. The mauter had been discussed during four sessions, and, last session, an almost unanimous assent was given to the proposal. The chief argument in favor of the duty was the heavy expense of Goldfields management. They had to thank the Government, however, for a report which showed fairly that the expense was a mere fraction of the revenue derived from the Goldfields. They had a return showiug a revenue of nearly £20,000 from the Gold duty, and from other sources a revenue of £37,000, the proceeds of direct taxt ation upon a population numbering a little over 12,000. Those living in towns had much to complain, but he thought it would be admitted, that the mining population, who paid £3 a head in excess of the other inhabitants of the Province, had certainly a cause of complaint. The general effect of such a tax upon capital and industry was universally known and acknowledged. The Provincial Secretary suggested the insertion of the words, in the motion, " Gold found in Otago." He thought that an arrangement could be made for the repayment of (id per ounce from the Provincial Treasury! or the reduction might be paid over to a fund for a useful purpose. Mr. Shepherd accepted the suggestion. Mr. M'lndoe moved, as an amendment, that the reduction be made at the rate of Is. per ounce. Mr. Mouat thought there was every roson to bel''evo that the Assembly would, next session sanction a largo reductio:i-say Is. an ounce to b gin >\Kh. The amendment was negatived, and the motion as amended agreed to. Mr. Hutcheson moved,' " That, ii the opinion of this Council, it is not expedient that the Waste Lan s of this Pr iv.'nce should be open for sa'o, until the same have been prochiimd into Hundreds, in accordance with Lectio"? 82 aid S(> of the Otago Waste Lands Act, 18G6..' He feared that steps recently taken were advances to. wards free selection in its worst possible form. Mr. Mosley seconded, the mot'on, and would give it his most hearty support. The Secretary for Land and Works spid that if the motioi was carried, it would almost slop public works in the Province, un til, at least, Hundreds could be declared, and that must occupy some time. The Government had no objection to the proclamation of Hundreds, properly recommended ; but lands outside Hundreds would certainly have to be sold. Three fourths of the whole lands of the Province were within Goldfields ; he would ask the Opposition how it would be possible, if the motion was affirmed, that even such works as were now under contract could be carried on. Mr. Juliu9 agreed that the mot'on was too comprehensive ; it would actually lock up from sale all the Lands of the Province. Mr. Beid said that, it would be better that public works should be stopped, than that a policy so injurious to the future of the Province, as that indicated by the Secretary for Land and Works, should be carried out: better that public works should ce:'se, and the Lands of the Province be ope-ied up for settlement, in the way they were originally intended to be. If 10,000 acres were to be sold in Shag Valley, without the declaration of a Hundred, of what value was it to the Province to have a Land Act, the whole policy of which was to prevent the sale of the lands until there had been a declaration of Hundreds ?There had been a Government in office, which, to their credit, though the Province was on the verge of bankruptcy, had refused to offer lands for sale in such a way as would enable capitalists to snap them up : and it would be well if something of the same spirit actuated the present Government. Why should the lands be opened up now, in a way more impolitic than that which a former Government refused to adopt, even under the pressure of circumstances such as did not now exist ? If the principle of free selection was to prevail, let it be open ly and broadly affirmed—let the principle not be put into operation in its worst form, of a selection restricted to certain blocks. That was not a good itselr, tut the reverse ; and it was not a carrying out of the Law of the Province, The Land Resolutions passed by the Council, and the Land Act itself, showed that the policy of the Counc 1 was this—Except in very exceptional cases, land shall not be sold, Unless it j has been declare I into a Hnndrel. What I was now proposed ts be done at Titpanni ? i There were over 100 lots of land offered,

Varying from 5 acres to 120 acres. Professedly, the object was to get revenue ; but the result would be the securing of the best laud in the vicinity by runholders, to the exclusion of settlement. So with the land in Shag Valley. # Thursday, Apbil23. Mr. Haughton was called upon to resume the debate on Mr. Hutcheson's motion and Mr. Mitchell's amendment, as follows : That, in the opinion of this Council, it is not expedient that the Waste Lands of this Province should be open for sale until the same has been proclaimed into Hundreds in accordance with Sections 82 and 86 of the Otego Waste Lands Act, 1866: That, in the opinion of this Council, it is not expedient that the Waste Lands of this Province should be open for sale, except for Agricultural Leases within Goldfields, Until the same have been proclaimed into Hundreds in accordance with Sections 82 and 86 of the Otago Waste Lands Act 1866 but this resolution shall not be deemed to affect the case of such Lands as shall have been surveyed, or shall have been advertised for sale previous to its being passed, Mr. Haughton said that he did not purpose offering any .further remarks to the House on the subject. Mr. Reid said, the House had heard an eloquent speech from a legal gentleman—the honorable member for Manuherikia (Mr Main) —The honorable member had asked, " Why should the squatter be excluded from purchasing land 1 Is not the squatters money as good as any one else's ? Nobody wished to prevent any squatter or capitalist from investing in land as much money as he had to invest: but there were many who did, and who would, object to such investment being invited by the offer of blocks of land, as to which other persons could not compete on equal terms.—[A Member : How so ?] The squatter, in such cases, would purchase with the right to graze cattle over his run, as well as over the block which was taken from the run ; but small purchasers would have such a right only within the particular block. The class of settlers we got here were not men with thousands of pounds to invest: they required that, as soon as they conld possibly get a few head of cattle, they should be able to gain all the benefit which could be gained from the ability to graze them, without buying more lond. He (Mr. Reid desired to see all the capital invested in land that could be attracted here—but it must be a fair attraction, not by means of an unfair advantage to capitalists, as agi'inst the rest of the community. Th* Provincial Treasurer replied, when a lengthy discussion followed. The amendment was put and negative*. The original motion was then put, and was also negatived. Mr. Fi-aser moved, "That a select Cotn-niiU'-e be uppoiuted to take into consideration the u>eossity of retrenchment in the public service, consequent upon a diminished and diminishing land revenue. Mr. Muiv seconded the motion. Mr. Main laid upon the table a report from Mr. John Bathgate as the Chairman nf ii ronmiis&ion which had, in 1860, been appointed t-i inquire into the Civil Service of the Pr'ivinc), and which from from various circumstances, had not previously reported th" result of their inquiries. The recommendations it contained, he considered, wen; worthy of the notice of such a Committee as that proposed. Mr. Miller moved the omission of the words " consequent upon a diminished and diminishing revenue." Mr. M 'lndoe seconded the amendment. Mr. Shepherd thought that the number of the Government should be reduced to three. Mr. Reid proposed, as an amendment to the amended resolution, " That a Select Committee be appointed to take into consideration the necessi,y of retrenchment in the public service, and the best means by which such retrenchment con be carried into effect, and to report whether any, and if any what, reduction can be made in the number of officers in the Civil Service, or whether any reduction can be made in the cost thereof." Mr. Murray seconded the amendment. The amendment proposed by Mr. Reid was accepted by Mr. Fraser and his seoonder (Mr. Muir) and, after some discussion, it was adopted. Friday, 25th April. Mr. Brown presented a petition, signed by about two hundred miners and others at Waitahuna, setting forth that the petitioners " have heard with surprise and regret that the Government are about to withdraw a certain portion of land from the goldfields situate near Waitahuna, and have advertised the same as now open for selection." The petition was received. Mr. Muir, on behalf of Mr. Haughton, asked the Secretary for Land and Works, "When the Report of the Martin's Bay Expedition will be laid upon the table, and whether the Government will state under what vote the money for the expedition was expended." The Secretary for Land and Works said the report would be laid upon the table before the rising of the House. The money was taken out of the vote for general contingencies. Mr. Fraser moved, "That it is desirable that an efficient system of supervision should be exercised over the mode of working the various coal mines in this Province leased by the Government to private individuals." Mr. M'lndoe seconded the motion. Mf. Shepherd supported. The motion was agreed to. Mr. Shephherd moved, " That the petition from miners, farmers, and settlers at Black's for throwing open land in the district of Black's Goldfield for settlement laid on the table on the 9th inst., be referred to the Select Committee appointed to cpu-

aider the petition against the sale of the Runs." This was one of the many cases on the Goldfields, in which the inhabitants were desirous of having land for settlement and commonage} and he thought the subject could best be dealt with by the Committee on the Wakalip Runs. The motion was seconded' The Secretary for Land and Works cotild not see what effect the Committee coul I give to the petition. The hon. member must know that under the existing tenure of the runs, it was an impossibility. If the Council recommended ascertain block to be taken out of a run, unless the runholder agreed to it, it could not be done. The Government has already taken action, and had asked the runholders to fix a sum for compensation, or leave it to be decided by arbitrition what patches or blocks of lan-i should be taken for pastoral use until settled; but in some cases they objected, and the Government could not compel thein to comply. In all cases, tlw runholders said the Government might take what was wan. ted for the use of miners, but they would not fix a sura, or allow the Government to take the block at once from the run. The motion was agreed to.