MR. ORMOND AT WAIPAWA.

Daily Telegraph (Napier), Issue 3064, 22 April 1881, Page 2

MR. ORMOND AT WAIPAWA.

Mr Ormond addressed his constituents last evening. The attendance was not large. On the motion of Mr Harwood, Mr Richard Harding was voted to the chair. Mr Harding said that when he came into the room he had no idea he would be asked to occupy the chair. He felt it an honor to occupy that position. Mr Ormond would be glad to see that his constituents took a lively and intelligent interest in the subjects on which he was about to speak, and would ■ no doubt be glad to answer any questions that might be put at the close of his speech. . ..v Mr Ormond commenced by saying he proposed to have met them at an early date, but postponed doing so in expectation that the Premier, or some other prominent member of the Grovernment, would have spoken and given some indication of the intentions of the measures for next session. Had such been done your representative would have had the advantage of speaking to them, knowing something of the probable policy of the Government. The only speech up to*" the present time was that of Major Atkinson at Taranaki, and that was mainly confined to a justification of the views of his party on the property tax, and vindicating a few measures wlich he stated would be dealt with next session. Major Atkinson conveyed the idea that some measures to be considered next session would be of an important character. What he (Mr Ormond) proposed to-night was to give some explanation of a few of the events of last session, also to point out wherein he differed with the Government in matters regarding which he considered it was essentially necessary that he should address his constituents. Before going on to these topics, he would refer in passing to the difficulties he had in not being able to meet the whole of his constituents at one time. This placed him at a great disadvantage, but the Press in times past had always given his speeches full publicity, and would no doubt do it this time, thus giving his views not only to his

COhStituents but others outside. The last session of Parliament was one during which a large number of measures had been brought forward, but practically little had been done—that was to say, that very few of the bills brought forward had become law. This could be accounted for in various ways. The present Premier was a man capable of an immense amount of work, and he apappeared to think that others were like himself, the consequence being a great avalanche of bills, and the result was that a number of useful measures were Bmothered. By way of illustration, he would refer to a number of useful bills which were introduced and came to nothing —The Impounding and Fencing Bills, and a number of others of more or less interest to colonists at large. It was not because the House had no time to consider these bills that they failed to become law, but by reason of the difficulties presented by bills being applicable to one portion of the colony and not to another. The great differences of opinion in the House on such questions would prevent such satisfaction being given as was possible in the old days of the Provincial Councils. In those days such questions were dealt with by communities acquainted with their own wants. In consequence of these great differences of opinion the attention of the House was lost to questions of more importance. There were other ways in which a considerable part of the time of the House was lost. The people of Dunedin or Auckland for instance, wanted a bill passed concerning a domain or reserve, a matter of considerable interest to themselves, but not to the community generally. These measures frequently caused what was called in tho House a Dunedin or Auckland free fight, rt(jd so obstructed the advance of useful legislation. Another source of inconvenience during last session was the relegation to Commissions of work which belonged to the House. Thus there were a Railway Commission, a West Coast Commission, a Civil Service Commission and others. While he would not undervalue much of the work done by these Commissions he could not agree with the system. Men were appointed on these Commissions who were well fitted by their experience to serve on them, and the consequence was that the members in the House on these questions usurped the position of the Government, and were constantly replying to questions, and otherwise taking upon themselves the duties of the Government, and then, not being members of the G-overnment, they were irresponsible. This was a great inconvenience, and would put an end to representative government a3 we understood it. He would refer to a Comission which ha 3 not yet sent in its report, but his imformation regarding it was obtained from the papers, the judicature commission. Those whose business frequently led them into Courts of justice would regard the work of this Commission as an important one. From what he could understand of it, it was composed of lawyers, judges, and he believed a few laymen, and the Government had done a great publio service in appointing this Commission. The object for which it was appointed was to enquire into the manner in which the higher courts were conducted, and to get rid of much of the technicality which surrounded them. In his opinion there was no matter requiring greater reform than the procedure in our higher courts of justice. Cases were frequently brought to light in which the plaintiff often failed to get justice in consequence of his not having complied with some form. He believed the appointment of this Commission would lead to a simplification of procedure, and would do away with the impression that justice was difficult to get unless a man had money to pay for it. The subject was first made prominent by Mr Travers criticising the frofessional charges of one of his brethren, t was reported that they would he indebted for any reform which came about, not to the judges, but to the other members of the Commission. He trusted that the Government would not be satisfied with simplifying matterd in the higher courts, but that the same reform would be made in the lower oourts, where it was much needed. To his mind this was a most important question, and if other members would take the matter up in their speeches to their constituents there would be more probability of the desired reform being brought about. He would not weary his hearers by going through all the events of last season, but there was one question in which they were all interested to which he would refer, namely, the provision for charitable aid and hospitals. In ,his speeoh the other day Major Atkinson had said he thought this question should be considered next session ; it had been before the House last session, and though accorded considerable attention was not passed. On this subject, as on most, there were two opinions in the House. A bill had been brought before Parliament which proposed that funds for these purposes should be raised by rate, and in that event the rateSayers to have the power of administration. ?his scheme was objected to on the ground that it was objectionable that a young oountry should have a poor law. There was no overlooking the fact, however, that we have to provide for tho hospitals and for the poor also, and there was no shutting our eyes to the fact that we had this class of people amongst us. The opinion of some was that these should be supported by subscription, but with this he did not agree. His sympathy was entirely with the Government, who believed that it was the duty of the country to provide for these people. (Applause.) Putting aside altogether the sentimental feeling which makes us feel it a reproach to have a poor law, it was our positive duty to provide for such people so long as we had them in the country. In connection with this matter there was a proposal brought in by Mr Stevens, of Christchurch, not exactly supported by the Government, proposing to set aside land in possession of the Crown as a permanent endowment for this purpose. He (Mi* Ormond) quite agreed with the proposal to make permanent provision by endowments for charitable purposes. Passing on he would now go into a question on which lie was extremely sorry to nave differed from his friends in the present Government. He referred to financial matters. He wished to say at once that it was a matter of great personal regret to find himself suddenly at variance with his principal and most intimate friends. He would explain, however, that he had, and still had, a difference of opinion with the Government on certain points which it was right and proper that he should refer to now. At a very early stage of last session the Colonial Treasurer brought down a number of proposals of which he would give a resume. The amendment of the property tax proposed to exempt what was called personal property, namely, furniture, books, plate, &c. He (Mr Ormond) at once saw that the exemption was in favor of the wealthy classes, and tho result was that, as soon as it was proposed, a number of members rose and proposed exemptions of the particular interests which they represented. The Treasurer at once saw that if this was carried the property tax would be denuded of its inside. The consequence was that no more was heard of the bill, the Government being glad to drop it. Referring to the beer tax he referred to the two proposals of 6cl and 3d per gallon, and said he had supported the latter, as he was of opinion that it would fall on the brewer, and not on the consumer. (Applause,) A more important bill was the Local Works Bill. Major Atkinson, in the early part of the session, told the House that the subsidies could no longer be continued, and this bill was introduced to meet the requirements of local bodies. Tho subsidies had gone, also twenty per cent of the land fund, and this bill to take their place proposed to double the rating power of local bodies, also to alter their borrowing powers, so that they could borrow at any rate of interest at which they could got money. The assistance the Government proposed to give was that Crown land 3 should be rated by tho local bodies, but they were to he rated at a

• sum to bo fixed and not in proportion to what was paid on the land. Although it was proposed to tax native lands, the tax was not to come from the natives, but a sum of £150,000 per annum was to form a fund out of which the rates upon Crown and native lands would come. A fund was also proposed to be started from which local bodies could borrow to enable them to carry out necessary works This fund was to be administered by a board at Wellington. Ho entirely dissented from this measure, as he could see no fairness in taking the native lands and make the country pay the tax. Altogether the measure was not received with any favor by any section of the House, and although one of the principal financial measures brought forward by the GrOTernment, it never came on for actual consideration. The measure was seen to be altogether unsatisfactory and wa3 dropped, and no provision was made for local bodies. The only other point in connection with tbe financial proposals was economy in public expenditure. The Government brought down their estimates, Which were extravagant and altogether excessive, and stated that thd country would have to submit to iarge taxation. This was the point at which he differed from those frionds with whom he had previously worked. It appeared to him that when the Government had to call upon the people to submit to increased taxation it was absolutely necessary that great reductions in public expenditure should be made. Ho was very much dissatisfied with the Government proposals, and did not hesitate to say so. The position of affairs at that time was made more difficult in consequence of a motion made by Sir George Grey, who at that time was in no way recognised as the leader of the Opposition, that the financial proposals of the Government were unsatisfactory. This meant a vote of want of confidence in the G-overnmont, and not coming from any recognised leader of the Opposition added to the difficulties of the position. Finding that the great bulk of his party did not care to take any prominent position in the matter, while his own opinions regarding the necessity for economy were strong, he, after the most careful consideration, went to the House and spoke his mind about their proposals, condemning them as he thought they should be condemned. (Applause.) To anyone accustomed to public life it would be evident that only a strong sense of public duty would have caused him to rise and oppose his personal friends. For some time after this he was, he might say, ostracised from his party, and falsely represented by some portions of the press as having joined the Opposition. After a time, however, it became known that he had only acted on his own convictions. He should state that on this occasion he was not alone in his protest, but was joined by two other gentleman, namely, Mr Saunders and Mr Reader Wood, who, together with himself, exerted such influence as the Government could not overlook. The outcome was that the estimates were reconsidered, and large reductious agreed to. He did not, however, agree with the form these reductions took in the way of a fixed percentage off the Civil Servants salaries. He believed good men were worthy of good pay, and that the fixed reduction mentioned was calculated to drive out the best men and leave the worthless ones. At this point Mr Ormond read some extracts from Hansard, giving the expression of opinion at his action at that time. He had insisted that a reduction of £250,000 would have to be made, and was twitted by Mr Hall and asked to try and do it. It was since proved, however, that he was right. Last session he had also pointed out to the House that further reductions could be made, for instance, in such places as Napier, where there are a number of heads of departments, which by amalgamating offices could easily be reduced to a few. A Commission consisting of Messrs Batkin and Seed had lately been sent out by the Government to enquire into this matter, but these gentlemen being heads of departments he doubted if any reform could be expected from that quarter. He hoped that Parliament would cut down the official expenditure to its minimum cost. In reference to the native policy he had last session agreed with it in some respects and not in others. Mr Bryce, the then Native Minister, had proposed to bring in a bill for the disposal of native lands, to secure that in future all such should be of through the Crown. If he had thought the system would have been workable he would have supported it, but he thought it was impracticable. In the North Island there were either eleven or thirteen millions of acres held by natives who did not in any way contribute to the welfare of the country by taxation or otherwise. His opinion, expressed in a few words, was that it is the duty of the Government first to set aside ample land for the requirement of the natives, and that done to facilitate in every way the passing of their lands into the hands of Europeans. A state of things under which we should be frightened of land speculators had come to an end, and land acquired would be used at once for public purpose, and be under taxation. It would make a great difference to the colony if these native lands were occupied and contributing to the good of the couutry. Mr Bryce in his speech, had told of a great many abuses in the Native Department, and had made as much of the matter as it was possible to make, and perhaps more than he was justified in doing. He claimed for one thing to have created a great reform in sweeping out the department. He (Mr Ormond) would give him every credit for having reformed the department in a degree, but differed from his policy in the mode of dealing with native lands. Mr Bryce had spoken as if he were the only man who had done any thing in the matter of native lands. He (Mr Bryce) had withdrawn tho claims of the Government over very large tracts of native lands, and there ho disagreed with him. He objected to the continuous " ego " of Mr Bryce, who was only one of a Government, and a Minister should refer to any proposal he made a3 coming from the Government. In their native policy he was thoroughly at one with the Government all through the West Coast troubles. He thought the action of the Government with regard to Te Whiti was one to be thoroughly endorsed ; it wa3 the best and most merciful that could have been taken both for the natives and the Europeans, The point when he ceased to be in accord with them was when that letter was sent by the advice of Ministers to Te Whiti asking that' he would allow the Governor to see him. This was unwise and impolitic—more than that, it was unfortunate that the letter was taken by an officer of the Imperial army, giving the natives an idea that there was a superior power to that of tho Government of the colony. The outcome of this letter was very ridiculous, Te Whiti declining to receive or open it. At length it was opened by some of his people, when Te Whiti made the now celebrated speech " The potatoe is cooked." Ho thought it would be difficult for the Governor in his despatch to tho Homo Government to explain his position and the reply he had received. Mr Bryce had stated that the reason he resigned was that the Government did not agree with his proposal to march a force to Parihaka in order to take Hiroka, which march he (Mr Bryce) believed would have ( resulted in the arrest of Te Whiti also. Had he have carried out this proposal ho (Mr Ormond) would havo given Mr Bryce the fullest support previous to the Governor's letter being sent to Parihaka; that action would have been the proper outcome of the Government's policy, but after tho letter had been sent the march upon Parihaka would havo been a breach of faith and altogether wrong. He would say no more about matters regarding the past, but would now proceed to deal with the probable action in the future. Selecting a few of the most important subjects to be brought before Parliament he ' would speak shortly upon them. As yet Major Atkinson's speech was the only statement of the intended policy of the Govern-

ment, and his speech r niight be summed up by saying that the next session would be a very brief one ; in fact, should be confined to the consideration of charitable aid, the redistribution of seats, and a licensing bill. Major Atkinson thought that after the consideration of these matters a little political rest would be the best thing for tho country. With this view he could not agree ; there were other questions to consider. Ho would explain that the next session would be the last of the present Parliament. He would limit himself to what he considered to be the most important measures. First, the redistribution of representation. Whole communities had grown uvj since the last distribution of scats, and other communities had not increased at all and were over represented. This question should be dealt with by the present Parliament before it expired. It was not a matter of great importance to Hawke's Bay ; although they had progressed, tho number of their members would not be increased. Proposals were made last session as to the course the Grovemment would take in this district. It was proposed to take from Clive the districts immediately round Napier, and to have a member for Napier, one for the country districts, and one for the Waipawa district. With regard to the bill he would strongly oppose an increase of members in the House, which would be an increase of expense to tho country. There were two opinions in the House upon this as upon all other questions—some who thought that population should be the only basis of representation, and others who thought that poyjulation should be the chief basis, but not the only one. He belonged to tho latter party. Ho was not sure that the Government would be strong enough to carry through such a measure ; if not, the matter would have to be relegated to a committee, which he hoped would sot to work and act fairly to all parts of the country. With regard to charitable aid he could only say that he agreed fully with Major Atkinson. Now he came to a question of considerable importance—the form which taxation shall take. He was always opposed to the property tax, and had been from its introduction. He believed it to be a tax that could be objected to on the broadest ground. The main objection was that the tax falls unduly upon the improving owner, and deters the introduction of capital. If the property tax was abandoned we must have direct taxation of some shape. For many years he had been in favor of an income tax. A man could fairly be asked to pay upon his income, and the tax would meet the oase of many who were at present exempt from taxation. An argument raised against the tax was that it would not raise enough. This was a false impression. Colonel Whitmore, in speaking to him of the income tax, had said that when he was in office he and Mr Ballance had calculated tbat the income tax would realise more than the property tax. Every one knew that there wa3 a large amount of money at present in the colony for investment, but the present tax prevented persons from borrowing money and spending it upon improvements. Those who had advocated an income tax had also advooated a land tax, and in his opinion land would in future have to bear heavy burdens. It was generally recognised that there was a difficulty in providing for the education system; large sums of money were wanted annually for buildings, and he thought that in future this should be a fixed charge upon land. If he were driven to choose between the property tax and an income tax with a land tax, he would say the latter was the best for the country. Last session the question was raised about railways, and his views had been misrepresented. He had never advocated the selling of railways, but when told that the taxation had to be so greatly raisod he said it would be better to sell out some of the railways. Since then he had thought over the matter, and it would be seen that the railways in many places did not get the full support of the districts, especially in short-distance lines. A trade was wanted to be forced, and the Government could never properly carry out that system without giving dissatisfaction to some districts. The whole thing wanted reforming. At the present time money was to be had, and little trouble would be necessary to induce companies from the old country to carry on the railways. He objected to letting lines to rich companies, as it would be a monopoly, but the Government could fix a maximum charge which could not be exceeded. Regarding our own'line he thought we had not been generously used oj the Government. The Railway Commission thought this line should be stopped, and he doubted as to whether the Commissioners were qualified to form a judgment on the matter. After further remarks upon the treatment of Hawke's Bay in railway matters, he said he would draw attention to the present position of local bodies in respect to roads and settlement. Since the taking away of the subsidies there had been no provision for these bodies. At present we were under two local bodies, and these bodies were engaged in the same work, their functions being principally road making and repairs. He would like to know, now that the subsidies were gone, how the main roads were to be kept open. He thought the time would come when the country would be of opinion that they could not have two bodies doing the same work, and when the road boards would be the governing powers. A proposal had been made last year to the Government that these bodies should continue as before, and be aided in their operations by funds to be distributed by an official board at Wellington. This he did not think would work in any way. In time past he had worked for the abolition of Provincial Governments, and although he still thought that the actions of some of the Provincial Governments were open to criticism, he thought that the total abolition was a mistake; they should havo been rectified, and not destroyed. They would have to recur to a simpler form of government. There were subjects which could be far better dealt with by a local board of works than by the House. To these boards might be given the administration of waste lands, and the charitable aid arrangements. The settlement of lands could also be well carried out under a local body. This would soon become one of the leading questions in the colony ; it was forcing itself more and more upon the attention of the colony. It would be necessary somehow to find money to developo the resources of the country. He wished, before concluding, to say that, although a portion of the press had imputed all sorts of motives to Ministers, he believed that the present Ministry was composed of men of the highest character, and actuated by the most patriotic motives. He did not agree with Major Atkinson that the time had come for a period of political rest. There were still important matters to be dealt with, and as the Houso was at present constituted the Government were not strong enough to pass them ; they had shown that they were not strong enough last session. The Houso should at tho commencement of next session pass a redistribution bill, and then dissolve, and go to the country. They would have to pass a short supply bill, then the redistribution bill, and then go to the country. Those who were returned to tho Houso would return with a knowledge of the opinions of the people upon the important questions yet to be dealt with.

Mr Ormond, after speaking two hours and a quarter, resumed his seat amidst loud applause.

Several questions were then put to Mr Ormond and answered.

Mr B. B. Johnson moved a vote of thanks to Mr Ormond, and of confidence for his past services.

The motion was seconded by Mr Shanloy, and carried amidst applause.

A vote of thanks to the chairman brought the proceedings to a close.