PARLIAMENT AT WORK

Dominion, Volume 15, Issue 42, 12 November 1921, Page 8

PARLIAMENT AT WORK

BUDGET DEBATE CONTINUED

THE NEW ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES

GOVERNMENT AND THE B.N.Z.

The House of Representatives met yesterday morning in order that members might commemorate Armistice Day. Members met again for ordinary business In the afternoon.

The debate upon the Financial Statement and the adverse motion moved by the Leader of the Opposition was continued in the afternoon and evening. Tho Prime Minister stated in the course of the debate that tho Estimates already presented to the House would be under-spent if his .scheme of retrenchment was approved by Parliament. ,

The relations between the Government and the Bank of New Zealand

were discussed by Mr. C. E. Statham (Dunedin Central}, who urged that the Government was being prejudiced by the withholding of profits that could have been used to pay dividends. Mr. Massey replied that the Government was losing none of its rights. I

■ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES

' THE TARIFF '

MORE COMMENT IN THE

COMMISSION’S WORK COMPLETE

HOUSE

NEW SEAT IN THE WAIKATO Tho constitution of a new electorate in th© Waikato district, and. the disappearance of the present electorate of Bruce, as a result of tho work of the Boundaries Commission, was announced Zin the House last night by the Primo Minister.

FARMERS AND PROTECTION

Mr. Massey said that he had been informed’ unofficially, but quite correctly, that the labour of tho commission was finished'. They had taken away one electorate from tho south and given one to the north. The electorate to be wiped out was Bruce, and a new one had been established in part of the .Waikato. The present Waikato elect urate would be called Hamilton, and tho new' alctorate would. l have Te Awamutu as its central area. He was also informed that no licensed houses were interfered with. (Hear, hear.) That was always a source of trouble. His own electorate was cut about as much as any, go far as he could learn. In answer to a chorus of questions, the Primo Minister reminded members that their constituents would have two months within which to appeal. They could appeal at any time between tho present and January 10. A member; Are the maps available? Mr. Massey: They are with the Printing Office now. I don’t know when they will be ready, but it will not -bo very long.

Mr. L. M. Isitt (Christchurch North): Doe-, the appeal cost anything? Mr. Massey: No, I do not think so. There were several appeals last time, and some of them were upheld. There was an appeal from my electorate. There will bo one from mine this time, so far as I can gather,— ,

Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui): And from mine. Mr., Massey: I do not know nnythng of those details. I only know what the members of the commission have told mo, and I pass it oii for the information of the House.

“ AN UNKNOWN WARRIOR ”

The Beer Duty

SUGGESTION TO THE GOVERN-

MENT.

A suggestion that an "unknown New Zealand warrior” should bo brought from the battlefields, preferably of Gallipoli, fol, interment in tho Dominion was made in the House of Representatives by Mr. W.’T. Jennings (Waitomo). Other countries had honoured their deadZin this way, said Mr. Jennings, and it seemed fitting that Now Zealand should take a similar step. The Primo Minister said that he would take an early opportunity of consulting Cabinet regarding the suggestion.

NO INQUIRY

MR. McLEOD’S 'ALLEGATION.

When the Gaming Amendment Bill was under consideratioiv'in the House of Bepresentatives, Mr. A. D. McLeod (Wairat’apji) mentioned a rumour that money had been sent to Wellington by a cer-

PETONE’S CLAIM

tain club, which was anxious to secure the rejection of the Racing Commission’s recommendations. Subsequently, Mr. H. E. Holland (Buller) asked if the Primo Minister would arrange for tho investigation, of this allegation, Mr. Holland mentioned the matter again in the House of Representatives yesterday. He Risked if Cabinet 'had reached any decision regarding his re-

quest. . Mr. Massey replied that ho had not had an opportunity to consult Cabinet, which had boon'fully engaged dealing with retrenchment and kindred matters. He had thought over tho matter 'himself and had com ft to tho conclusion tlia.fi it wat? not necessary to set up a committee to inquire into tho remark that Mr. McLeod Wets alleged to have made.

THE HOWARD ESTATE

PAPER FOR WRAPPING APPLES

A QUESTION OF RATES,

Sir'’George Hunter (Waipawa) yesterday askedi the Minister of Lands a question about a loss of rates to the Waipawa County Council. The Supreme Court, he said, had decided that the Howard Estate was not liable for the Tates demanded by tho County Council. One riding of tho county was dependent very largely for the upkeep of its roads upon the rates from that estate, and he suggested that as the roads were used by tho Government, which was now going to work tho farm, a sum of moncy should be placed on the Estimates to make up for tho 'rates lost. Tho Hon. W. Nosworthy said he was aware that the decision of t'he Court was against tho Waipawa County Council in regard to these rates, and ho had brought the matter before Cabinet, which had decided to take no action in tho matter. Ho realised that if the Govern, ment continued to tun the farm it would be rather unfair not to contribute to the maintenance of tho roads, but this opened up the very big question cf soldiers’ rates in the different districts where there had been disputes in the past. Ho would consult the Primo Min- \ ister and see if any means could be found \ io meet the difficulty

THE MARRIAGE LAWS

The Bishop, clergy, and laity of the Synod of the diodsso of Auckland have petitioned Parliament for the repeal of section 7 of tho Marriage Act of 19-0, and of section 4 of the Divorce and nfittrimtaial CafiW Amendment Act of %ho’ same year. Their petition was presented by tho Primo Minister ft emnlo/s the same arguments as have algjatly been set forth in similar petitions from other dioceses. The Auckland iiocese comprises members of tho Anglican Church in 22 electorates.

The Prime Minister announced that the Boundary Commissioners had completed the new electoral boundaries. They had decided to extin. '■ gulsh the Bruce electorate and to create a new electorate in the Waikato district. ' '

Members of the House of Representatives made further references to the new tariff in the House of Representatives yceterday. Tho first, speaker who discussed the matter was Sir John Luke (Wellington North), who said that the proposed tux on salt was justified by tho prospect of the development of a salt industry within the Dominion. Preliminary stope had been taken already. He believed that any industry ' that was built up behind a high tariff wall should be under control, so that the Government could be sure that the farmers were getting fair play. He did not think tho farmers could complain reasonably about a duty on agricultural implements. to encourage the local industry. The-im-plements had long lives on the farms, and tho charge, spread over a period of fifteen or twenty years, was very small. The farmers, in any case, had a very closely protected industry of their own. Import duties had been placed on many of tho articles they produced. The butter subsidy had been paid to help the farmers. It was mere camouflage to say that the butter subsidy had been intended to make things easier for the consumers. The subsidy was assistance for the farmer himself. Members: No. He could have sold in the open market. Sir John Luke: He got tho subsidy to maintain hie price.

Mr. Reed (Bay of Islands): To reduce ,his price. Sir John Luke: “Well, you would like to have the subsidy now.” Would tho farmers, ho added, bo prepared io find all the finance of the country if the industries were extinguished? Were all the young men who could not bo farmers to emigrate to other lands? Tho members of the House should regard the tariff with broad minds. Tho assistance that was being given to the mills engaged in the utilisation of scrap iron within the Dominion was fully justified, since tho industry was a very valuable one.

Mr. W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) was rather sorry to see the beer duty increased, as it had been. He regretted it on account of the working man, and lie honed the Government hud made sure that the 'effect would not bo to raise the price of a glass of beer above sixpence.

"We have advice to that effect,” said Mr. Massey. Mr. lysnar said lie thought, that the drinking of beer should bo encouraged—(laughter)—in preference to tlio drinking of spirits. He considered that the Government was placing a prohibitive tax on storage batteries. The batteries should be allowed in duly free, so that their use might be encouraged. They would assist in extending the use of electricity.

A MATTER OF RAQING PERMITS. Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt) remarked in the House yesterday that under the Gaming Act of 1910 the number of totalisator permits that could be issued in any one year was 250. Amending legislation in 1914 had given the Minister of Internal Affairs power to issue 31 additional pennits. The Minister had control of these additional permits from year to year. When the time camo to consider tho matter, rio’uld he remember the request that had been made by a deputation representing the Wellington Trotting Club? Petone had one permit, while Canterbury had 17 mid Auckland Lad 11.

The Minister of Internal Affairs said h/ would be glad to consider the matter when the time for tiie allocation of permits arrived.

Butter paper, Mr. H. A. Atmore (Nelson) observed in tho House yesterday, was permitted to come into New Zealand duty free. Would the Minister of Customs, he asked, sec that a similar concession was made to those who imported paper for the wrapping of apples ? The Minister of Customs (tho Hon. W. D. Stewart) replied that ho would bo Had to investigate the reason for the distinction. There was generally a good reason for such differences, 'he assured Mr. Atmore.

How is it that one never hears or reads of Chinese' in New Zealand being amongst tho unemployed? Tho answer, given by a Huncdin citizen who hns made a life-study of tho Chinese, is that it is due to clanship that recognises responsibility (says tho "Star”). Four years ago or thereabouts, when the Chinese ipopulation of the •Dominion stood at about 2500, nearly a thousand youngl Chinamen came. Such an addition to a self-contained community must have caused a certain amount of unemployment were it not that the Chinese stick to each other with a race attachment equalling that of the Highlanders, and rivalling that of the Jews. I'or every Chinaman who really wishes to work, and is able to work, some sort of occupation is found in tending a garden, or jobbing in a laundry, or, in some eases, opening a new shop, lienee tho new fruit shops in George Street, and throe or four new laundries in varioua parts of Dunedin.' In tho ordinary sons" of the term there are Chinese unemployed in Dunedin, but the other Chinamen always give them a start or such tern porary work ns will find them in food •<nd clothes, so that a general appeal i« never made on their behalf, and they are never publicly advertised as in 'want.

THE GOVERNMENT’S SHARE

MR. STATHAM & THE B.N.Z.

PROFITS THAT WERE NOT DIVIDED

The relations between the' Government and the Bank of New Zealand were discussed by Mr. C. E. Statham (Dunedin Central) during the Financial debate in the House of Representatives yesterday. Mr. Statham suggested that the Government had not eecured tho advantages that it had been led to expect under the new arrangement of tho shares. The profit of the bank last year, after paying income tax, had amounted to .£777,000, and of this .£150,000' had been added to the reserve, .£412,000 had been paid away in dividends, and £214.000 had been carried’ forward. It appeared that the bank had been almost afraid to disclose its profits for tho year. The dividend paid to the shareholders had been at the rate of about 20 per cent, on the original capital. But tho bank could have paid 30 or 35 per cent, instead of 20, and he thought the Government ought to inquire why this sum of £1214,000 had been carried forward. One-third of this undivided profit belonged to the Government and would have been of material assistance in recent months. . Mr Statham proceeded to say that instead' of assisting the Bank of New Zealand to make enormous profits tor shareholders the Government ought to take over the bank and run it as a State institution in the interests of the country. The Prime Minister had admitted tho success of the Commonwealth Bank and had congratulated that bank upon its management. A State bank in this country could 'be as well managed, as the Commonwealth Bank. Mr. Massey: The Bank of Now Zealand does more for us than the Commonwealth Bank does for the Australian Government, by a very long way. Mr Statham: It is able to do more for us because it has the Government behind it. But why should the Government have to go almost hat in hand to the bank to ask for assistance? If the Government owned the bank they could either reduce the charges or add materially to the State,revenue. Mr Massey: We have four directors representing the Government out of ax on the directorate of tho Bank of New Zealand. b Mr. Statham: Exactly. Why, then, do we carry forward £214,000 of our profit when one-third of that profit belongs to the Government? Mr. Massey:‘lt is ours now. Mr. Statham: It is buried away. 'Mr Massey: It is bearing interest. Mr Statham: You will get it perhaps when the Bank of New Zealand is wound up You will not set it before. Mr. Massey: The auditor is our officer, tO Mr. Statham: I know that. Why is it not, a State bank altoftethei. Wh should the Government have four directors out of six. with an auditor and an assistant-auditor, and yet see the bank run in the interests of the oidmaix shareholders? . , Mr. Massev drew attention to the fac that in addition to its dividends the Government obtained from the Bank of New Zealand £356,000 in income tax — Was "not •_ better off if it owned the Lank of Aei Zealand altogetner. £: else ami collect land tax upon t? Mr. Massey: If ™ one . would have to pay for • ~ • i o c the third of it, and we own one-thnd of profit carried forward. 1 Mr. Statham: Then why do not you act it now when you are hard up. Mr Massey: Wo will get the inteiest on it. and in the next division we will get th© capital. . g Mr Statham: There is no arrangement of that kind. We are entirely in tho hands of the Bank of New Zealand They can carry forward their profits and keep down their dividends io a IoW point, • +h» result that the Government W ll suffer Yet the bank would not h JJe been ’in tho position that it occurs to-day'but for the Government.

PURE SEEDS

the bill in suspense

PARTIES HAVE NOT AGREED

Tho Pure Seeds Bill, in which 'he had interested himself eonsderably last Jom was mentioned in the House again yes er lav bv Mr. W. T. Jennings (Waitomo) who reminded tho Minister of Lriculture that it hod been agreed to adjourn the matter for lh ® th ‘ evidence and to submit the Bill to tne House again this session, 'Tenni „ said that while-in England he had gathered a good deal of information m regard to seeds and would be glad to place ?t nt the disposal of the commit tee He asked tho Minister if he intended to D o on with this matter. ■ The Minister (the Hon. W. Ncsworthy) said that tho Argiculturo and Stock Committee would be very glad, of any information that Mr. Jennings could give. Tho Bill had been submitted to the seed merchants and farmers. Rather unexpectedly a good deal, of tho opposition to Ft had come from -Mr. Jennings’s own electorate and from the north R™ erall ’’’ The Bill was now under consiueiation. If he could come to a reasonable understanding and one that was satisfactory to the Government 'he was prepared- to go on with the measure. Mr G. Witty (Riccarton): lhe Bill must’ be on tho wrong lines if there is opposition to it. Mr. Nosworthy: There is evidence upon it'one wav and tho other. If too drastic regulations were made it might do the farmers more harm than good. I he could get t'he Bill into a satisfactory condition he would go on with it.

INQUIRY AGENTS LICENSE SYSTEM SUGGESTED

Mr. B, A. Wright (Wellington Suburbs) has given notice to -ask tho Minister of Internal Affairs whether legislation will bo introduced compelling privato inquiry agents to bo licensed with tho view of preventing disputable persons engaging in the business. Ho suggests that it would ho beneficial to all reputable private inquiry agents if only persons of good character were permitted to practise as such. ' NOJSONEV

MARTON NEEDS A SCHOOL

The need of a school at Marton Junction was urged in the House of Representatives by Mr. AV. S. Glenn (R-angi-tikei), who said that tho local people hud been given a promise on the point. Tho. children were being taught in the public hall, and tho congestion was being increased by tho erection of homes bj the Railway Department. The Minister of Education (Hon. C. J. Parr) said he realised tho school ought to be built. There had been a large increase in settlement in the district, and it was unfortunate that tho accommodation for the children was inadequate. But he had no money to build new schools nt present. The policy of tho Education Department just now was to make use of public halls and similar buildings when they wwe available. He could assure the .Maxton people that when money became available he would not forget their requirements

BUDGET DEBATE

YESTERDAY’S SPEECHES

MORE ABOUT RETRENCHMENT

DECLINING REVENUE

TASK.

Mr. C. E. Statham (Dunedin Central) discussed tho relation between the Government and the Bank of New Zealand in some detail. Turning to general finance, he said that the public accounts had fthown a cash balance of nearly X5,09(1,001) on Mauch 31 last. Yet a few months later tho Acting-Minister of Finance (Sir Francis Bell) had declared that tho Treasure had run dry. Was that the reason why the Government im-

The Budget debate was continued yesterday. The motion before the • House was the usual motion to go into Committee of Supply. An amendment had been moved by the Leader of the Opposition taxing the Government with lack of a policy and with failure to appreciate the needs of the country at the present time.

Mr. J. McCombs (Lyttelton) said that in addition to tho amount set forth in the Budget as expected revenue .from the year’s working there was £4, 920,000 cash balance from the previous .year, and other unappropriated surpluses, making a total revenue available for tile year of £34,260,964. Thus there was an estimated total surplus for the year of £16,132,232. The public finances weta, in a word, perfectly satisfactory. The Government was making a rebate of land tax for the benefit of all the landholders, using as its stalking horse tho position of tho pastoralists. Tho pastoralists had made good profits, and invested some of them. Some of the amounts invested were in war bonds, and he considered that the Government' might have given relief to the pastoralists by offering to accept payment of all ■ or part of the tax in war bonds. He Questioned the sincerity of the Government’s profession that it was actuated merely by a desire to help pastoralists in difficulties. The Government was making a concession fb all kinds of landholders—even to the man who held laud on which a bank was standing—because it was to the “big" man in the city and tho country that the Government party looked for support. The “big" men were those who wef® going to reap a substantial benefit. If the Government—which was, by the way, occupying the Treasury benches in defiance of the expressed will of tho people (laughter)—really desired to help the small man, it should lower the Customs duties upon articles in common use, the like of which were not manufactured in New Zealand and which were taxed for revenue and not protective purposes. There was nothing in the Budget' tha> was going to help the man with £3500 a year and less. In fact, additional burdens were being placed upon that man. Before going Home, the Prime Minister had spoken about a substantial surplus, but very shortly afterwards, in March and April, 175 men had been dismissed from tho public works. Some of the mon who had been put off tho public works, where they had been earning the award rate of wages, had afterwards been re-en-gaged on exactly the same work, but on a much lower scale of wages, .viz., 10s. a day for single, and 12s. for married men. Now the Government party was talking about reduction of wages generally in the public Departments, and one member had expressed the hope that local bodies would follow tho example the Government was to set. In its statements' about tho movement of the cost of living the Government preferred to confine itself to tho food figures, which, in a food-producing country, would naturally bo the first to show a decline. Ho Had asked in vain for an "all-groups” statement; and he suspected that the Government had good reasons for refusing to furnish the figures. Tho Government Statistician’s rent figures showed only a 10-9 per cent, increase in rents for Wellington between 1914 and tho June quarter of 1920. Between 1914 and September, 1921, according to tho Statistician’s figures, the increase was only 16 per' cent. It was upon such figures as these that the Government relied for its information upon tho cost of living. Following the principles laid down by tho British Statistician, he had calculated the "all-groups’ figures for New Zealand, and reached tho conclusion that since 1914 the average increase in tho cost of living ior all groups had been approximately 91.5 per cent, by September, 1921. The decrease in the cost of living in the six months ended September last was 5J5 per cent. The rise in wages had not equalled the rise in the cost of living, yet the Government was now proposing to make a raid upon wages. Outside the public Departments most of the workers had received a 65 per cent, increase in wages to meet a 92 or 95 per cent, advance in the cost of living. In the public Departments the position had been worse. Mr. McCombs assured the Government that reduction of wages was not tho solution of the country’s present problems.

The Minister of Education: Do you advise an increase in wagps? ktr. McCombs: An increase in wages is duo, and should bo paid.

RETRENCHMENT NOT A PLEASANT

j Sir John Luke (Wellington North) eaid the member for Lyttelton must recognise that tho financial position of the Dominion had changed entirely in the last twelve months. • There had been a heavier fall in the prices of New Zealand produce than had ever been forecasted. He did not know where the millions required to cany on the Labour policy were to lie obtained. It would have been a disastrous thing if Labour had occupied the Treasury Benches n't such h. time as this. The country was to be congratulated*- upon the stable Government it possessed. He did not believe in reduction of wages and salaries if it could be avoided; but ho did not see how it was to be avoided., During the war great numbers of new employees had been brought into the public service, and it was not possible at this period to carry the big administrative machine of the war days. The member defended tho land tax rebate and the suggested reduction in income tax. He was tired of hearing the catalogue'' of alleged sins of the Government in respect of labour. Did the Labour members think tho Government was pleased by necessity for retrenchment? Could the Labour members reasonably contend, that the Government ought to put men on relief works at tho highest cun-ent rates of wages? , If the highest rates were, paid, the works would cease to be relief works, and men would be flocking to them from all parts of the Dominion. Contrary to tho supresHon made by Mr. McCombs, the landlord, as tho sneaker could testify, was not having -an enviable time just now. Ho believed that in regard to the ordinary necessities of life wages had been kept abreast of tho advance in the cost of living. Reductions in tho cost of many articles in common use were plainly to be seen. Whit the Labour members needed to do wan face Ihe facts. Sir John Luke discussed public finance ot some length. He thought that the Public Works Department had dons very well under adverse conditions. Tie wan pleased to learn that the Minister of Public Works was making provision for nurses in the back-blocks and for the encouragement of the Phmket nursing system. Very valuable work was being done at Trentham and elsewhere among the crippled children, and be hoped to pee this work extended until every child fhat needed medical skill had received attention. DECLINING REVENUE.

posed a censorship to prevent the public statements of Ministers being cabled abroad ?

Mr. A. D. McLeod (Wairarapa) referred to a letter of his which tho Leader of the Opposition had quoted. Ho did not think Air. Wilfoxd had wilfully misquoted him, but ho’had been placed in -. wrong light. On his return from Australia ho had warned settlers against signing the petition circulated regarding Armour’s. The statements quoted by tho Leader of the Opposition were statements being made by others about the freezing companies. They were not an expression ot his personal opinions. Tho member vent on to discuss ’he Budget and ether members’ speeches upon it. He did not attach much importance to the “comic opera” speech of tlm member for Christchurch East, who had made charges of graft against the Government but him offered no proof. The Leader of the Opposition had not dealt with tin- large questions of the day, but had shown a new-found solicitude tor tho farmer. It was very welcome after listening tor two sessions to speeches in which the farmers were described by those on (iic- Opposition benches as robbers and

Mr. Massey said he had not heard any suggestion of the kind. Mr. Statham pointed out that the unauthorised expenditure last year haa amounted .'to over .£670,000, the largest sum on <ei."r.r<l. The surplus would not have existed, but for the abnormal Customs revenue. Mr. Massey: There would have been a surplus of £32,000,000 if the Customs revenue had been normal. Mr. Statham predicted that there would bo a very big decline in the income -tax this year. The amount collected might not exceed £33,000,000. Mr. Massey remarked that the sum certainly would bo larger than that. Some taxpayer’s might not be able to find the money at once, but tho asset would be there. THE FINANCE BILLS. Mr Statham said that much had been said in the House regarding retrenchment. \ But the Estimates showed that members were being asked to vote about £1,800,000 more than last year for the State Departments. Why was that necessary if the Government was in earnest about retrenchment? The Primo Minister: The answer is perfectly simple. Unless Parliament agrees to the legislation that I propose to bring down before this session ends, then this estimate or nearly the whole of it will be required. But if I can get the legislation through, then the retrenchment that I propose will be given effect to, and tho whole of the money shown on the Estimates will not be required. A member: Then surely the proper course would be to bring down .the legislation first? Mr. McCallum (Wairau): How are you going to make your savings before March 31 next? Mr. Massey: I have five months, or nearly five months. -The whole scheme has been prepared, and if Parliament agrees it will be put into operation. Mr. Statham said that if the intentions of the Government had been stated plainly in the Budget members would have been able to understand the position. They were being asked in the Estimates placed before them to vote £1, 800,000 more than last year for departmental expenditure. Mr. Massey: "You will get the reduction all right.” The ,Prime Minister quoted from his Financial Statement to show that he had foreshadowed legislation dealing with retrenchment. , \ Mr. Statham: There is nothing definite about it. We are not told what the Government intends to do. Mr. Statham said that it was buncombe for the Prime Minister to talk of reducing land tax and income tax when ho knew perfectly well that he would have to get the money from tho people in some other way—through the Customs—or have a big deficit at tho end of the year. Tho Government said that ’.£4,600.€00 could be saved on its administration. What an-indictment of its methods! Tho member condemned the Public Service Commissioner system. Ho had altered his mind about its utility. Mr. Massey: 'You often change your mind. , . , Mr. Statham: No, I changed- my mind once and I am very glad I did. Mr. Massey: Oh, you’ll change it again. ASSISTING DEVELOPMENT. Air. AV. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) said that where land tax was paid it should be deducted from the fax u]»n income made from tho land. Tho land tax was too serious a burden at present but if it wore treated as he suggested it would bo fair. Many farmers with perfectly good security were not able, to raise money nt the 7 present time. The Government was permitting too much money from the funds of tho Public Trust Office to pass to the local bodies, which should really "o outside for their loans. V here there was good security and money was needed by settlers for the of the country, he hoped the money would bo made available andl that.the settlers’ claims would be pushed aside in favour of those of the local authorities. The present depression would not, last long, and er^ r ® endeavour should bo made torkeepcl. , veloping tho Dominion. If tho liquid* lion 1 of local bodies’ o Y e s d^f F 3 J nraeecd at once it would probably call ,„„« y v tS •» I, far .. ft W ««•■ "» G-’?™”™'” retrenchment scheme was’ There had been a combmg-out of tno Apartments, and it had not impaired theta efficiency. He did not agree wtah the Labour members suggestion th. . there should be no reduction of « a^rie s All surplus labour should be combed out. first; then every salary should bo reduced by a percentage equal to the Pintage decline in the cost of living. Salaries and tho cost of living were in a fixed relation now. Ho considered tha the people underpaid were the Judges and the Cabinet Ministers but he was prepared to apply his rule to then ’ J'„ Lysnar launched out into a condemnation of trust methods. The depression in meat prices, he declared again, had boon brought about by the throttling influence of tho big combinations. He ni-s-ed tho farmers to take concerted action, and to set up their ownretail shops at Home. Turning to Native affairs, the member expressed the opinion that the Maoris should not be encouraged to hope for tho success of their claims to the lakes of Now, Zealand. DR. THACKER’S VIEWS. Dr. H. T. J. Thacker (Christchurch East) saw mystery-mongering in the Budget Millions arose on the horizon, then disappeared. Political patronage was the first plank in the Reform platform. “I nm for my friends, and nobody dec,” that was tho principle. Its application was to be seen m the selection of the commissions that roamed the country and in the selection of the parliamentary committees. During the war “my friends” were put Into the lucrative positions in the public Departments. When one friend wan put m ho could not do the work, so three or four more bad to go in to help. The Departments were “stuffed with transitory parasites. Now, with retrenchment looming ahead, a difficult question arose: Were old and faithful Public servants to go or 'my friends” ? He predicted that the Government’s friends would rot be thrown out If he were cutting salaries, the salaries to suffer would bo those received by persons who had come into the Departments since 1914, and bad received rises from £3350 to £'iM fvqni £3700 to £BOO, or £BOO to £31200. He would cut down by half tho salaries of some of these people. i LIBERALS’ SOLICITUDE FOR THE FARMER.

profiteers. The leader of the Labour Party had made a good party speech. He had referred to the accumulation of wealth in’ the hands of a few land-own-ers. The speaker was sure that such accumulations wore very few to-day. The huge amount of t:-xaLii>x; imposed on big l land-holders and to wealth did not leave enough for : rreper development of the country. T.ic hiucli money passed into the hands of the Government, and too little was left outside for development. Land values had been talked of, but no man knew what the value of land was to-day till he had sold and got the cash.

It was absurd io/Say that the increased values of a year or two ngo were maintained to-day. Ho thought it well that it was so, and that there was a tendency to return to real values and a sounder basis. A levy on wealth had been spoken of. That was a difficult thing ho far as land was concerned. It would mean that t’he land would have te be turned into cash, and immediately the effect of the sales would bo felt severely bv every farmer, down to the smallest. Bolstering up of tho secondary industries based on tho primary industries of the country did not present very encouraging prospects in tho light of the experience New Zealand had had with the boot trade. The country would probably nave (o face some loss over the purchase of land for soldier settlement. But if there was'To’be a loss what could those members eav te it who had advocated the payment of a gratuity two or three times larger than the one actually paid? The gratuitv wea well earned, but it was, in the bulk, wasted; and if it had been put into the business of settling the soldiers on the land it might have been more profitably spent. BETTER MARKETING FOR PRODUCE The primary products of the country and the prices for them were at the root of the questions of unemployment, heavy taxation and retrenchment. If the difficulty was to be overcome, it would be, he believed, by the restoration of the nrimary products to a sound position. \7fien New Zealand had 5,000,000 or 6,000,000 people it could talk of using up its own primary products. In tho meantime there must be a bold fight for a better position on the Home market. The Prime Minister had been accused of not having done enough in this matter.. Mr. Massey would have had to bo superhuman to attend to all the .’C° unirv’s requirements in the time available. Visits by tho Prime Minister for a few weeks were not going to do what was needed New Zealand must have men stationed in London to watch its interests closely. Now it cost so much to transport produce that the producers must tackle the question of obtaining their own ships. He did not believe in a State-owned shipping line, but believed the right course was for the producers to own the ships. A. beginning must be made, perhaps in a small way at first. If the farmers were given the opportunity to borrow money for shipping on tho lines on which they were able to borrow for hydro-electric reticulation, he believed sufficient funds for an effective start could be obtained. A recent Wairarapa poll over a small area for the raising of £3200,000 for hydro-electric reticulation had resulted in the carrying of the loan by ten to one. This was an indication of how the money might be raised. It was high time , that tho farmers faced the problem definitely. He had a complaint to. make. it was not doing the sheep-farmers any good to keep saying that everything m tho garden was lovely. The sooner the country realised how serious was the position of an industry from which so much revenue had been derived in the past, the better. The farmers were not receiving for their beef and their mutton anything like tho amount indicated in official figures. He lipped the market would but in face of the cost of transport and the had handling at Home, there must be a determined effort for improvement. With all the good work the Agricultural Department was doing, he believed that if a third of the amount it cost were spent in London the country would receive morn benefit; and in saying that he was not depreciating what the Department was doing. The shipping ring must be more effectively dealt with. At 11.15 p.m. Mr. G. Forbes (Hurunui) moved the adjournment of the debate.

TURKISH JOAN OF ARC

From the time that the memory of man runneth not to the contrary tho Turks have been involved in war. At the present time they are waging a war with the Greeks in Asia Minor, along a front as extended as that of the Western front in tho Great War, and with some 200,000 troops engaged on both sides (says the New York “American"). The immediate cause of the conflict their refusal to abide by the Treaty of Sevres, which reduced Turkey enormously in size and gave Greece concessions of territoiy around Smyrna and in Thrace. The two great Turkish leaders in the conflict are Mustapha Kemal Pasha, commander in chief of the army, end a woman named Halideh Hanoura, who is fighting in the field with him. From a land where women have been held little better than beautifpl chattels, to bo secluded behind veil and lattice, now comes a Jeanne d'Arc, on horseback to help her country in its need. Like Jeanne d’Arc. Halideh Hanoum dreamed dreams. They had to do with tho freedom of her people from tho despotic rule of Abdul Hamid: with the emancipation of the masses from ignorance and superstition through education, and with the completed Turkification of the Empire. She was more than a dreamer, however; she was distinctly a woman of action. Although it is only within a year that she has hold any public office or title, her personality intellectual power and fearlessness havfe given her a political power which few women have possessed even in the Western world. After the disaster in Syria, when the Turkish n.rmy was so completely defeated bv Allenby, and the armistice which soon followed, Halideh Hanoum was ono of tho first, of the Turks to urge the necessity and desirability of an American mandate. She eondimted monster open-air meetings in support of the idea. With'the nwistanco o f A-hmed Ermin Bey, the editor of the "Tkdam,” she enlisted r.’l but two of the Constantinople iiewsn-ipers. She was one of those who nctn.’l'v drafted tl'o mandate-y scheme vd'ich was submitted to the Paris Conference.

When the last imne of an American mandate vanished, Hol‘deh Hanoum allied herself with the Nationalist movement In Anatolia, which had arisen as a protest to tho signing of tho Treaty of Sevres by the Constantinople Government. . Again elm held great meetings in Stnmboul. calling num her hearcs as loyal Turks to dewrf the papier-mache governmer.t of the Sultan. The Allied officers wh.-. were responsible for the- peace of the city soon discovered ibrt it became necessary f“ arrest her. Itol-Jnh Hancnm fieJ in disguise to An-g-.ra. tho can; to’. of tic Nationalist Government in. Asm Minor, ffrnn her arrival th-u-e she war in niedml-lv lulled to a Cabinet nosstton. that of Minister of Edunation, by Mustapha Kemal. Such, an appointment of a woman to a. Cabinet position is. without precedent in tho histow -of the Ottoman Empire. She lai or resigned, ami now is in th? field wifi the army, in command of some ISOO women.