TOTALISATOR PERMITS

Dominion, Volume 15, Issue 23, 21 October 1921, Page 6

TOTALISATOR PERMITS

PROCEEDINGS TO BE DELAYED MEMBERS INTERVIEW THE PRIME MINISTER A WRANGLE IN THE HOUSE MR. MASSEY’S BILL INTRODUCED. Further proceedings in Ptvliament concerning the report of the Racing Commission are to be delayed pending the discussion of the matter by members of Parliament at a meeting to be held next week. This announcement was made yesterday after a deputation of members had interviewed the Prime Minister and the Minister of Internal Affairs. Sir George Hunter, M.V., who introduced tins deputation,' told a Dominion riporter subsequently that the members present hud represented all shade,'; o; opinion on the racing issue, lie had placed before the Ministers the following re-.>lutions adopted at a meeting of members:— That this meeting is of opinion find there should be redistribution oi totalisator permits. That a strong protest be made against any curtailment or elimination of permits. That there should be an increase in (he number of permits allocated for trotting clubs. Sir George Hunter told the Minister that in his opinion much credit was due to the members of the Racing Commission for the good work that had been done; but lie thought that in preparing their report they had failed to realise the feeling of the House and of lhe country in regard to the issue of totalisator permits to country dubs. Among the metro politan clubs, Auckland still retained .even days, Canterbury (en days, witn an increase of one day, Wellington 10 days, with an increase of one day, and Dupedin nine days. Taranaki retained live days, with an increase of one day, Hawke’s Bav eight days with an increase of one dav and Wanganui six days. The one day dubs that had not been allocated permits bv the commission were: Porangahaii, Waipawa. Ashhurst, Amberley, Horowhenua,t Cartertoii-laraialu, Cheviot, Kumai'a, Beaumont, Lake County, Tapanui, Vincent, Wario, and Clifton, a total of fourteen. A general discussion followed, and most of the members present placed their views before the Ministers, either for or against the adoption of the report. The Prime Minister in reply expressed his wish to meet the wishes of memVers as for as possible. TIo agreed that further consideration should be postponed until Thursday next, in order that in the meantime Sir George Hunter might convene another meeting of members for the discussion of the matter in all its aspects. The result of this meeting wculd be communicated to the Prime Minister before any further action was taken. The members present thanked the Prime Minister and the Minister of Internal Affairs for so patiently listening to lhe views that had been expressed.

IN THE HOUSE MR. MASSEY STATES HIS POSITION THE BILL AND THE RESOLUTIONS The House of Representatives discussed totalisator permits again yesterday afternoon, the opportunity being provided by the introduction of the Gaming Amendment Bill This is the Bill announced earlier in the week by the Prime Mimster It proposes that the Minister ot Internal Affairs shall have authority to issue the number of totalisator permits recommended by the Racing Commission. The tone of the debate showed that feeling in the House on this issue is running strong. , Mr .1 M'Combs (Lyttelton) took the floor'when the Prime Minister moved to introduce the Bill- He said that the money put through the totalisator in the Tear 'l9ll-12 had amounted to a Hout ‘£■’.ooo,ooo. and hist year the total probably exceeded 4110.000,000. the Government was preaching economy to the people and was nt the same tune bringing down a Bill that would make possible an increase in the facilities for gambling. This increase would not have been possible had the Government not introduced the Bill. Mr. Massey and the other Ministers could not escape direct responsibility for what was being done Mr M'Combs proceeded to assert that racing clubs were encouraging credit betting, and he quoted in support of his statement the case of a bankrupt who nad owed substantial sums of money to several racing clubs. i is. Members interjected that the debts would be racing fees, but Mr M Combs refused to believe that this could be true. Mr .1 V. Brown. (Napier) said he knew' the facts about the case that had been quoted. The moneys due to the clubs were ordinary fees. Mr H. Campbelh (Hawke’s Bay) confirmed this statement. The clubs did not go in for credit. be Mr' g L. M. Isitt (Christchurch Northl said he did not know much about this matter—(laughter)—but he had always understood that the clubs insisted on the sending of a cheque with entries. Air. V. Brown (Napier): They sometimes telegraph them. Air. Isitt.: 1 make that statement on the word of one of the most reputable racing mon in this House. Mr. Brown: If they don’t pay the fee they can’t start their horse in another I3 Mr Tsitt asked how that could he so when th-i man referred to was owing such sums to the different clubs. went on to say that what was happening A-as rot «o much a reflection on the Prime AHnister ns an indication m the tremendous hold that racing had obt.nned on this country.

"ABSOLUTELY BULLDOZED.” Mr. Isitt added that the influence of the totalisator had so seized upon the community* that whereas a motion lor tho abolition ‘of the totalisator was a few years ago narrowly defeated in that House, the racing fraternity now had got the members of the House “absolutely bulldozed.” (Loud laughter and dissent.) There were men in the House who. when they thought that the feeling of the community was against an increase of licenses, not only voted for a reduction of one-sixth of the entire permits granted to the racing clubs, but spoke vigorously in support of that, reduction. and no man need tell him that if to-day the bulk of the community were against an increase these men would risk the forfeiture of their seats bv doing a marvellous u>oral somersault. Those men would again be moral refornmysjind would say that while they enjoyed racing they recognised that the young people were being demoralised by an excess of gambling, and that, therefore, they must vote against an increase. Tn giving their support to an increase, now they would bo in the most humiliating position in which they could be placed. Mr. 11. Atmore JNelson) vehemently protested against Mr. Tsitl’s condemnation ef the mom] attitude of other members. and upon his arrogating to himself the righ* to lecture, members. Mr. M'Combs: Oh, I say! From Nelson ! *Mr. Atmore: "The little man from Lyttelton again !’’ Mr. Isitt. he added, claimed the right to place himself on a su-

perior moral plane in this matter, wherein the question might not be one oi' morality at all. He strongly objected also to Mr. Isitt’s insinuation that members of the House had been bulldozed by the racing men. He himself had not been more than twice on «- racecourse in his life. But if other people wished to see horse races he was not going to interfere with their pleasure. "I am not bulldozed,” continued Mr. Atmore. "The racing rejxirt has given my district and Mr. Hudson’s district two more days to which they were entitled.” (Much laughter.) The two extra days granted in the distiicts he had mentioned were, he added, due to them, and if they were going to close down on country meetings it eimply meant that country sporting men would be driven to go long distances at great expense to the big meetings in the main eenti'es. .

Mr. AV. D. Lysnar (Gisborne), wlio spoke with much seriousniss and vehemence, condemned Mr. Isitt for having used such language to members of the House. As to being bulldozed ho should sjieak for himself. The Government, he said, was not responsible for the position that had arisen. It was lhe will of the people of the Dominion and the will of the people of the House. Bo himself had only attended one race Meeting in hie u'vn town in his lifetime. Uv got his amusements in some other direction. (Laughter.) He said the Prime Minister should go ahead with the bl.l and give the clubs Hie permits The House would knock out the commission-er-j’ report at one sweep. (Laughter.) Why should they have the Christchurch <lo"-in-the-mnnger btisinrss. (Laughter.) Ik would say to lhe Prime Minister go through with it this time and let there be no compromise. Air R M'Callnm (Wairaii) referred tu the "unholy alliance” that had been fc.imed between the members 4or Christchurch North and Lyttelton on this subject. and said that they should both bo iror’e tolerant of the ideas of other men. He had been only once on a racecourse in his life, but he had no desire tn prevent other people going there. As to Air. Isitt’s statement about bulldozing, they all knew that if the Rev. .lohn Dawson camo along with a message Mr. Tsitt would bo very seriously bulldozed. (Laughter.) He would have to toe the line at once.

THE PRIME MINISTER

The Primo Minister said that the statement made by the member for Lyttelton regarding the debts of an i’nfortunate man was another proof ‘hat the member never missed an opportunity to distort and misrepresent. It was trno that there had been an increase in totalizator investments -in recent /™ TSit was not correct to say that the whole of the increase was due to increased gambling. The increase in taxation had been a factor. , Mr. M'Combs: It had nothing io do with, taxation. Mr Afassev said that another reason had been the extraordinary prosperity that the Dominion 'had enjoyed. Money had been plentiful and some of the people used their money for gambling. h 7 did not wish to interfere unnecessarily with the enjoyments of the people ami as ft matter of fact the volume. of totalisator betting decreased in recon months. That applied particularly to So country districts. The member for Lvttelton 'had tried to create an impression that if the Bill became lan ’t would have the effect of increasing gam bling. The Bill would not have the sliJlitest effect in tliat direction. Air. M'Combs: Every additional permit increases it. 11.. Bill merely pro*v k r , wc—».n. /S/S T -a. m "J--(Ml1y clear the other « • " TtlXrf AUIJ by a senes ui wn ? T? That is the object of the Bill-

the GOVERNMENT’S DUTY. Air. Hamilton (Awarua): AVhat will these ■ honourable gentleMr. Massey. meeting this man was that meeting was adjourned in OTd^ rs U ’^^ e Xd P "n .SLtVI?- A l ™,. n c «!l«d to ..V tw «» “ ”... th I" '"'ft.’Sy .r presented a good rep . , re _ Of (Flutha): Will lhe Government press the report upon the House ?

NOT A PARTY QUESTION.

Afr Afassev- That makes it necessary for me to reprot wh\t I said the other day This is not a party question. The Government will not press upon the House. I may say that, even among my own colleagues there is a difference of opinion and , sorae , v . l ’ 0l ° ia one wav on the' proposals contained i fhe Bill and some will vote another rev. Lry member of the IT-'-nil be'free to vote exactly a-s he likes. Mr Malcolm: Do I understand from von that you are going to let the reixirt, be laid aside? M- Afassev: It is for ti'. e ITo " . 1n ded with thereiporf. lam bringing down this Bill because it 1- tlm eisie. ,o take the sense of the House on the proposals contained in the report. There te no other way that I know of. . . If n nmiorily of the- ’"om’’crs ”f 11 House disagree with tire LH ’’ an md of the whole reniyt and we nre back where we were. If is not a paiti nl Mi‘ C Malcolm: I never drejinred it was. T thouglit it was going to be a Governin'"! t matter. Afr. AL.ssey- Tt is th‘> Guvemmeiit ’ duty to introduce this liiil. Me are not going any further. Air. Arfombs: The law nrovidcs that Hie r-norl mirel b o Wit n” the table for aporoval or rejection. Hill the reniirt bo submit te-l to I In' H ouse in accordance with the legislation after, tl-o Hill is passed? Afr. Alns-sev: Tho resolutions will he submitted to the TTous» awl tire, ropore will 1)0 laid on the table. Tho law will he complied with in both letter and spirit, as far as I am concerneil. Tho Bill was introduced and read a first time.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

REQUESTED TO DEFER ACTION

Tho Attorney-Genera) (Sir Francis Bell) yesterday laid upon Um table in the Upper House the Order-in-Council made under the Gaming Act. 1920. This was the Order which hud already been laid on the table of tho House of Representatives. "Honourable gentlemen will remember." said Sir Francis Bell, “that when tho Act of 1920 was brought before this Council it contained a provision that the Order-in-Council should take effect until and unless a motion was passed in the House of Representatives negativing it. I, in defence of the privileges of

this Council moved an amendment injecting in lieu of the weirds ‘House of Representatives’ the words 'either/House of Parliament/ giving to each House the power.

“The matter is now before, the House of Representatives, and though by reason of that amendment lhe Council could if it thought fit initiate and duil with the matter, any such action on file part of the Council would paralyse the action of the House of Representatives. I only wish to remind the Council that it has the power by reason of the motion I made in defence of its privileges. The Council will have exactly the same power to deal with Hie matter as the House of Representatives has expressed Council not to deal with it until the Huose of Representatives has expressed its view on the subject.” (Members; Hear, hear.)

TRADE UNIONISM BIG CHANGES IN THE LAW SUGGESTED.

The Hon. J. MacGregor has given'notice in the Legislative Council that he intends io move the following motion "That, in the opinion of the Council, paragraph (d) of section 2 (1) of the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act, 1908, which empowers the Court to grant preference of employment to members of industrial unions, should be repealed ; that a provision should be on. acted abrogating all provisions in awards of the Court of Arbitration or in industrial agreements purporting to grant such preference; that section 11 of the same Act, being a provision forbidding the registration of more, than one industrial union in the same locality or industrial district except in special circumstances, should be repealed; that the Act should be amended by the enactment of provisions depriving the Court of Arbitration of the power to restrict the number of apprentices and of the power to forbid piecework, and abrogating all provisions in industrial awards or agreements purporting to impose any such restrictions; that section 18 of the War Legislation and Statute Law '■ Amendment Act, 1918, should lx? repealed; that legislation should be enacted prohibiting the affiliation or. federation of any union or association of Government employees with any other union or association, and making provision for the dissolution of any such union or association in the event of its taking any Corporate action by way of bringing about or promoting a strike.” ORGANISING TEACHERS THE BACK-BLOCK CHILDREN. Tho proposal of the Education Department to reduce the number of organising teachers in the Taranaki district was warmly condemned in the Bouse of Representatives by Mr. R. Masters (Stratford) last night. The children of tho back-block districts would suffer if these teachers were withdrawn, he said. One organising teacher, to quote an example, had made a journey into the back country and found two families, with seven children, who haff never been to school at all. Airanglements had been made for the instruction of these children. Without the work of teachers wdio could move beyond the established schools, many back-block children woula continue to get no education at Mr. Masters contended that the Dominion could not possibly need to economise at the expense of children who were a» much entitled to the advantages of education as the children of the towns. - The Minister of Education, in a brief reply, said that if 'he thought for a moment any injury would be. done to back-block children by tho withdrawal of a few organising teachers, he would not take the step that was contemplated. Ho realised that these children were entitled to special consideration. The system had been made very much, mole liberal in recent years. The capitation rate had been largely increased for the verv small schools and a system of instruction by mail was being developed for the benefit of isolated families m the back-blocks. Then arrangements were being made to use skilled itinerant teachers in the backblocks. Half-time instruction under a good teacher gave better results than full-time instruction at the hands of a poorly-equipped teacher. The Minister insisted that the Taranaki district had possessed too many organising teachers. He could guarantee that the changes now proposed would not preju-, dice the interests of the back-block children.’ IMPREST SUPPLY • The Imprest Supply Bill, which was passed by the House shortly after midnight last night, appropriates a total amount of .£3,835,255 for various purposes. , , ~ The Prime Minister Informed the House that there Had been very heavy expenditure during the past month and that'there would be heavy expenditure next month also. The Government had keen called upon to meet heavy payments particularly in connection with the Railway Department—for coal, rollingstock, and material. In h ol^ 6 ’ quence, it had been necessary to aric ter or 41800,000 more than usual. The schedules were as follow:— First Schedule. Consolidated Fund— Ordinary Revenue Account 2,500,000 State Forests Account 9,500 State Coal Mines Account 30,000 Scenery Preservation Account 7,500 Nauru and Ocean Islands Accent 26 ‘ 62a Public AVorks Fund—- • General Purposes Account 850.000 Electric Supply Account 100,1100 Separate Accounts— Land for Settlements Account 5.000 Land for Settlements AccountOpening up Crown Lands for Settlement Account 7,0N1 Native Land Settlement Account 500 Fishing Industry Promotion Account M’ar Expenses Account Westport Harbour Account ... 6.000 413.795,125 1 Second Schedule. Government Insurance Account ... 10,000 Government Accident Insurance Account Slate Fire 1 nsuraiico Account ... 6,<50 Public Trustee's .\eeount 19.000 Native Trustee’s Account LObO State Account. Advances Io Settlers Branch Account Advances to AVo'.'kers Branch Account Advances to Local Authorities ' Branch £10,130 “URGENT PRIVATE BUSINESS” The continued absence from the House of two of the Labour members seems to afford a little amusement to their colleagues. When Mr. F. N. Bartram (Grey Lynn) moved on Wednesday that All. Al. .1. Savage (Auckland West) be. granted three days' leave of absence on "urgent private business” there was a. general smile. The Prime Minister: I think we might be told what that business is, Mr.. Speaker. < f,slighter.) Air. Bartram then moved for three days’ leave for Air. AAL E. Parry (Auckland Central), on lhe grounds of illness At this there was renewed laughter, and some expressions of inercdulilv were uttered. Mr. Bartram rc'nrlod: “I may stale for the licmfit of those members who laughed that Mr. Parry has Iwen in bed for the last week.

"We’re no! half through yet.” said the Primo Minister yesterday, when Mr. A. S Malcolm (Clntha), in advocating reductions in public expenditure, made reference to what hud already been done by way of economising.