A TIE IN THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 305, 18 September 1920, Page 8

A TIE IN THE HOUSE

POLITICAL RIGHTS FOR CIVIL SERVANTS

OPPOSITION AMENDMENT DEFEATED ON CHAffIIHAVS VOTE

Immediately tho Eailway estimates were reached in tho House of Eepresentatives yesterday afternoon, tho leader of the Opposition (Mr. T. M. Wilford) moved that the total vote should be reduced by £5 "as an indication that tho time has arrived when the Government can fairly grant full political and civil rights to Public Servants." Mr. Wilford did net speak to his motion, and, no other member rising, it went to ;i division at onco. After the bell had been rung, Mr. Nash (Palnierston North) made a belated attempt to debate the point. He asked the Chairman if it was not a fact that full political rights had already been granted to Public Servants. Ho was proceeding to mention statements made at the general election when ho was ruled out of order, the time for discussion having passed. The division resulted in a tie, 30 members voting on either side. Tho division list was as follows:— Ayes (30). Bartram Newman, A. K. Craigie Parry Dickson, J. M. Poland Edie Savage Forbes Seddon Praser Sidey Hanan Smith, S. G. Holland Statham Horn Sullivan Howard Sykes Isitt Thacker Jennings Yoitch M'Combs Wilford Masters Witty Mitchell Wright Noes (30). Bitchener Lvsnar Bollard ' ■ M'Nicol Coates Mandor Pield Massey Glenn • Nash Guthrie Newman, E, Hamilton, A. Nosworthy Hamilton, J. E, Pomare Hcnare Powdrell ! Hemes Eeed Hockly Rhodes, E. H. Hunter Ehodes, T. W. •Tones Stewart Leo Uru • Luke Young Pair: M'Callum, Aye; Hudson, No. luo chairman (Mr. Malcolm): As I understand 'hese rights are already given, t will give my vote with the "Noes." the 'Noes" have it. Mr. Fraser (Wellington Central): Is that a statment given with the authority of the Prime Minister? Mr. Massey: Yes. Members ought to know thfat railway servants have practically full civil rights now. We allow them to become members of local bodies, even mayors of borough councils.- I think I am right in saying that men who are in the employ of the Eailway Department are mayors of boroughs in tba South Island now. At the last general election two men employed in the railwav workshops wanted to become candidates'. I permitted both. I offered to put both of them back in the railway service after the election. Only one of ttsem wanted to come back. I allowed this division to go because I wanted to see what would take place and then take the opportunity of explaining. The railway service have got the rights they asked for. Mr. Holland (Buller): They have notgot them as rights. They (jet permission. They are not allowed to sit as delegates at political conferences. I have a letter that yoii wrote to me on tho point.

Mr. Massey: I should be very sorry to seo rnihmymen taking part in some of the conferences to which you Tefer. I have never stopped one of them. They can do what they like. Mr. Hampton, wlib is president of the A.S.E.S., has taken part in political conferences over and over again.

Mr. Holland: I have a letter from you Buying they will not 'be permitted to take part. Mr. Mnssey: I don't care -what the honourable gentleman has got. I have stated the position, and I know what has taken place. Prior to 1012 thiey did not have the rights to which thov were entitled. They have got them now. Mr. Yeitch (Wanganiii) stated.tkit the ■ railwaymeu mentioned by the Prime Minister had been required to resign before thev stood for Parliament at the general election. One of them, a casual employee, had rejoined the service. The other had not rejoined, and it appeared that if lie had done so he would have had broken service, with consequent loss of superannuation. Mr. Mnssey retorted that the question hail now been put to the House, and the House had said "No." For that the public servants could thank the members on the other side of the House. WAR "EXPENSES AND THE GERMAN INDEMNITY. Several questions about tho war expenses vote of were asked in the House last night. Mr. Veitch (Wanganui) asked how the money was to be provided for the war expenses account. "Was it proposed to add the amount if nearly three and a half millions odd to tho Public Debt, and'would the Minister tell the House that it could rely on this being the last amount charged to the war expenses account? . ' . ~ m The Leader of tho Opposition (Mr. T. M. Wilford) said ho understood that the war oxpenses account of "the country amounted to something like 76 millions. To that must be added three and a half millions for this year. He wished to know whether tho House would bo given details of the expenditure of those 76 millions. Ho did not 6Uggest that there was anything wrong, but the House should bo taken into the confidence of the Government. Replying fcrst to Mr. Veitch's question, Sir William Hemes said that this was the first time that the war expenses account had appeared on the Estimates. Exoept for accounts that ho bolieved were in dispute—ast there were some accounts in dispute between New Zealand and the Admiralty, and between New Zealand and the ■ War' Office—the accounts before tho House woro the last accounts. With regard to Mr. Wilford's question, ho thought that the statement asked for could not be presented in the form of a! balance-sheet, because the Government would have to put on the "assets" side tho amount it hoped to get from Germany. Ho would be glad to consult his colleagues in order to ascertain whether a full statement could not lie made concerning the wholo of the 70 millions. , Hon. J. G. Coates: There is no objection to giving a. statement. "We could almost undertake," Sir William Berries concluded, "to have something of tho lrind laid, on the table of tho House before the expiration of Una session." : (Mr. Wilford: Hear, luar.) LOCAL BODIES InFtHE FORESTRY DEPARTMENT "Got in early, vith your application and I am perfectly suro you nifl receive from the Forestry' Department eevry consideration." sold tho Hon. D. H. Guthrie, referring Inst night to the Department's I policy of supplying at cost price trees to 1000 l bodies which wero willing to plant them. The Minister added that in some cases trees had been given away-when, for instance, they were wanted for the establishment of forests or for tho reclamation of land. NOT IN THE "GOOD BOOK" Dr. Thackor (Christchurch East) yesterday proposed that in his capacity as Minister of Railways the Prime Minister should for several years, in an experimental way, carry freo upon the railways all children under tho age of seven. The member spoko eloquently of thelustre that suoli an action would shed over the reputation of Mr. Massey both hero and abroad. The description culminated In tho following sentence: "It would then bo said, as tho Scriptures say, 'Well done again, the Prime Mini*: ter of New Zealand!'" Dr. Thncker dio. not state in what part of tho Bible thio splendid tribute to the Prima Minister wna to be found, ..