DEFENCE MATTERS

Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 287, 28 August 1920, Page 8

DEFENCE MATTERS

THE NEW TRAINING SCHEME

NO CAMPS FOR THREE YEARS

CONTROL OF RIFLE CLUBS

. ; Tho estimate.? oi tho Defence DepaTtment, considered by tho Housi of Eepre".sentatives yesterday* propose, expenditure : to' the amount of *6550,593 for the current .year. ' The. total vote last year was <£528,725, and the' expenditure was .->6502,465.' The-Minister of Defence (Sir :Heaton Rhodes) forestalled. criticism: by telling ; the House that. economies ' were ■going .to-bo effected; but many; members ' had- something to say on - tho. subject. -The Minister gave-some additional information regarding tho now -training ...system. ..-.-.-V Sir Heaton Rhodes, reminded members ■'that ho had been merely a few weeks at the head of the Defence Department. He had told them already that a now _ train-ing-system, designed in part-by his predecessors in office, wns under considera-,-tion. The estimates, in the meantime, iwero.based upon tlw,old system, but ho . was .hoping that the nw scheme -would he satisfactory to the country ajld would nt" the: same time reduce the Defence : expenditure'. The Minister's ■ were fully aware of tho desire of tho community •that Defence 1 expenditure should be cut ,flo)vn,- and ther wore prepared as far as .jo'ssible-to cut it down.- « That would b(>. ' their .purpose' during the current year. It • Vns v-ery likely that some of tho. items now on the estimates would not appear • again or. would be reduced substantially. / Afr; T. M. Wilford (Hiitt) agreed that economy in Defenco -expenditure was. "desirable. They believed that the Dominion should not bo called upon ..to military bills at ; tho -presnrit.'.time, and that reductions..warn' possible, Mr.-Wilford iirecd that the rifle- clubs should be encouraged. Tho ißiflo -Association was willing to assist .in the training of tho Territorials, and the Minister ought not to mako .an apparent.) •reduction in Defence .expenditure by' . transferring control of the clubs to a new .department outsido tho Defencn Department.

The Minister said it was thought that the'rifle., clubs had better manage their own 'affairs through'"the' Ififlo Associa-. tion-. : - The English Rifle Association was a very 6trong and-well-managed body, without any military, control. . If tho New— Zealand Association managed its own affairs, the young men. in the Territorials could join it and learn to'shoot .as its- members. It, was intended that additional concessions should given to rifln clubs.

Mr-OWilford: Then 'you-will-say-that the Defence,estimates are less. 1

. Mr. Massey: They will be less. The,-Minister of Defence said that it ■was proposed to cut the period of training in,the Territorials down from seven years to three years. It wonld not extend beyond -the age of 21 or 22 years. Tho cadet training l up to' the age of 18 years .would- bo retained. "It is suggested that at the end of the cadet training we should give the youths a poriod in.camp' and then draft Hi em to units, 'giving .them their own choice as far as possible as to which branch cf -the service'they will join. It is proposed then to give .them training of so many days each year in camp. There will be no .barracks--system and no training for periods of mouths. Thnt has never been proposed, and is not under consideration now. It has been suggested that the . period in camp for cadet training should be-frora a fortnight to six weeks, remitting training as the men proved efficient. I- think; myself. that a fixed poriod in camp; will be better. Tho half-day and wholerday parades have made the training system irritating to employers, and uro propose to di> ' away with- them entirely in tho country.. It may be more convenient, for members of . the Territorial forces living in towns to hold half-day parades, and very likely they will have an-option. "There can be no camps this year, ana I. think we probably, will have to dispense with training camps , for the'following year and the year after that. It is proposed in these years to traiu noncommissioned officers and officers in tHo camps. Men can be trained in a'short rperiorl, say three or four months, but officers and non-commissioned officers can r jiofc be {rained in that time." . An efficient staff of officers'nnd non-commissioned officers was essential for the success of.the general training system. The Minister added that the increaso in the estimates was accounted for chiefly by the higher cost of small anus ammunitions, lhe Department was paying, roughly, iICO.OUO for ommunitions that used to be bought for mOOfl. -...' . Some general discussion followed. Several members urged.that, physical culture should bo the chief object of tho training system. This fdea had already been incorporated in tho training syllabus ns'faH as the Cadets wero concerned. l Mr. Hanan (luvereargill) asked what the Defence Department intended to do in tho direction of dispensing with tho services of men who .bad not seen active service. He thought that enough men with war experience were available to fill all the positions. Mr. Wilford (Huti!) thought. that the Department ought to have a. civilian at its head. Tho civilian point of view required to bo considered in Dofonce administration, and • ho believed that Mr. Massev would have made a good Minister of Defence. The military rank nf tho present Minister was against him.

Some reference was mnde to tho league of Nations in the comse of tho discussion, tho antii-militarist element in the Houso suggesting that the exisSenco -of the League mado largo armed forces unnecessary.

Tho Minister of Dofenco Baid that tho. league of Nations had not abolished ■war or removed the need for military training. It was noil yet a body of assured status, <uid in any caso the decisions of tho League oould only bo enforced by armfes and navies. Tho members of the League wero expected to ninintaiu armed forces, which wcro to be used as required to uphold tho failings of the League. Eofoirmg again to the warning -system, the Minister Baid"Tt'"was" : proposal' that after. ■ ;tK» first-period-of from-a. fortnight-ta.-fjix Vei6fe*-sft- "camp, tho men-of 'Territorial fe" should bo trained-in camp for ftfovon daya in each year. - 'Die details of tho scheme' had not! yot beon sotilod finally.< ' ■ Bonw tnombora had epokan of golfl

[lace" and "brass lulls." TJie Minjster i said that jeers of this kind, against the senior officers'of the Defence staff were not reasonable. Officers did not wear gold lace in theso days', and the .socalled "brass hata" vers Alio men who had led the New Zealand troopa to victory in tho Great War. People, .who were proud of. the deeds of New . 'Zealand's Expeditionary I'orco could not overlook the achievements of the senior officers who had led that force. Tho Defence staff tfc-day consisted almost 'entirely of officers who had distinguished themselves in the field. He mention' ed that the strength of the,staff-in the Wellington distrioti was 202 men . this year, against 245 men kist year. -■ • Reductions were beilng inado as the work arising from tho war was completed. The discussion of Defence _ mattere was. continued during Mio evening.. .Mr. Luke (Wellington North) said thought .the future defence system would be 'on the lines advocated by the National Defence League. lie would like to see the Government/ state its intentions plaitaly. . .vMr: Howard (Chrfttchurch South), who had talked earlier' of the "brass haAs," apologised handsomely. , The term, he sn'tl, had not been used- in Jin insulting sense. It had been merely a nickname, used as "Tommy" was applied to. the private soldier. Mr. Glenn (Rnngitikei) told the House that he did not think officers wore uniform; for fun. They hated "swank," and they did their job from a sense of duty. Defence expenditure was absolutely neces sary, and the Defence Department was proceeding in theriglit way by concentrating on the training of field. officers | and n.c.o.'s. The men could be trained •quickly if the training staff were available. I

Dr. Newman (Wellington East) thought that most] New Zealanders were quite sound on''the question of having• an effective army. I3ut they were; not sure that tliey were getting value for- their money at present. They saw a great many men going about in uniforms, and they enspeeted that money was being spent."unnecessarily. '-The people wanted to know exactly .what was the policy 'of'the'Government. Br. Newman added that he would like to see every, young man receive tho physical advantages tlmt recruits had enjoyed in. the camps during tho war. The big percentage of medical rejections during the war was n lesson thai the Government ought Jiot ■to : forget; ' : , ' ■-'•'■

War prospects were discussed bv several members. Mr. Atniore (Nelson) pointed to the overcrowded lands of the Old .World, and said that nearly nil 'the •territories capable of' settlement bordered'the Pacific. Mr. Potter (Roskill) -.was'sure that another war was coming in Hie not very distant future, and that Its scene would Be tne Pacific Ocean. Something'had been said about bad'language in camps. He thought '-lie boys learned very much more bad language at the pictures and the street corner than in the training, camps. -. ' Speaking late in the evening, Sir Heatnn- Rhodes said the policy of the: Department was to prom'ote the officers wlm had distinguished themselves in the field. He bolieved that policy would give satisfaction all round. He agreed that there were dangers to bo faced in Hie Pacific, A. nation at present, allied to Britain might wish in the future to : extend its boundaries. Featherston camp, would be. broken up altogether when lit was no longer required for storage purposes. The huts would be sold, preference being given to Government Departments. Trentnam camp would have to lie retained Inr a longer time. The increase in the number, of officers in the Defenc? Department was due chiefly to the granting of honorary commissions to non-coms who had won commissions with the Expeditionary Force. The Minister referred to many matters of detail that had been mentioned by members. New. Zealand's senior officers were, not well paid in mmparison with the officers of other,-coun-tries. : , j ' ■' ' '

fifr. Sidey (Dunedin. South) referred to a Tepcit that the military districts were going to be rearranged; the South Island to form one district and the North Island to contain two districts. This apparently would mean the abolition of the Otago military district.

Mr. Massey: It would mean smaller expenditure. ,

The Minister of Defence said it was true that the Department proposed.to redace the number of military districts to three. There was a general demand for the reduction of Defence expenditure, and the easiest way' to do tli.it was to reduce the number of military districts. He suggested that Mr. Sidey should appear before the Defence Committee when if;'was considering the new. scheme, and thrush out the matter there. The Department had to cut down its expenditure, and trie creation of larger military districts was one of its proposals.'

Mr. Eraser (Wellington Central) quoted the covenant of the League of Nations to show that the limitation of armaments had been proposed. What had the league done in this respect? Had it determined the extent of New Zealand's armaments, or wsas it merely a hollow sham ? The Chairman ruled that the discussion of the League of Nations- did not comu within the scope of the Intimates.

Mr. Wilford urged the Government not to make the mistake of losing the services of the Director of Military- Training (Lieut.'-Coloiiel Sleeman), who had laid the foundations of a splendid training system. A warm protest against the iraining of young men in camps was made by Mr. Ilolland (Buller), who insisted that the moral tone of the camps was low. ' He talked of , bad language mid venoreal disease.

At 11.40 p.m. tho House divided on Mr, Holland's amendment, which was rejected by -13 votes to 9.

Mr. M'Cailum (Wairau) moved that lhe estimate should be reduced by J;200,00!) as an indication that the House desired economy in defence expenditure, and that the future defence policy of the Dominion must bo in the direction of increased naval expenditure, This amendment was rejected oh the voices without debate, and the Defence estimates were passed a few minutes later.