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PARLIAMENT

WOMEN'S RIGHTS PROVISION FOR SEATS IN HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

GOVERNMENT OF SAMOA INDENTURED LABOUR PROBLEM Tile Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. LOCAL BILLS. The following local Bills, received from the .House of Representatives, were read a first time, and wore' referred to committees:—Wellington City Abattoir Loan Bill, Hawke's Bay Rivers Bill, Matakaua County Bill, Auckland Harbour Board Loan .Empowering Bill, Ingle«-004 County Bill, -Wellington City Empowering Amendment Bill, -Patea ltarbour Amendment Bill, lnvercargill Borough 'Boundaries Extension .Bill, Ilauraki Plains, 1 names and Ohinemuri Counties Bill. HOUSING BILL. . .The Housing Bill "was received from' the Lower House, and was read a first time. The second reading of the Bill was made an order of the day for next sitting day. WOMEN'S RIGHTS. 'The Hon. 0. Samuel reported thai the managers for tho Council had eon■ffjrred with ma.nagsrsi ,from "another' place' upon the-deadlock that had arisen in connection with the amendment thai "iu oe-n made by Hi? Council in the Women s'Parliamentary Eights Bill. The conference had failed, to come to an agreement. BILLS PASSED. J.he following Bills were put through tiheir nnai stages, and were' passed without amendment:—New' Zoaland University Amendment Bill, fyst and Tolegraph Amendment Bill, Howard Estate BiII.."'SOLDIER __."'SOLDIER SETTLEMENT. , .Sir Francis Bell moved tho third Iread-. ing of the Discharged Soldiers' Settlement Amendment Bill. ■ The Hon Te Heu Hen Tukino advocated tho setting apart, in t-ach big-dis-trict, of land for settlement by Maori soldiers. His people, he said, had placed in his hands 168,000 acres of land to givo to the/Government for returned soldiers. ' ' rV llie Bill was read a third timo and passed. - The Council rose at 3.35 p.m. : n House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. ; -.The Counties Act Amendment Bill'was introduced by Governor's Message and read a first time.. ¥ inister explained that the Bill dealt with tho wheel tax. ' POST OFFICE AMENDMENT. Mr. J. A. YOUNG (Waikato) moved 101 to introduce i:lie Post and Telegraph Department Amendment- Bill.- He said his Bill had' reference to the right oi appeal of postal officers. The reclassification of the postal service had been accompanied by the creation of a promotions board. If-the board could not agree with the Public Service Comnibsioiier regarding any appointment, the matter w«s referred to the Minister, it had been found thai; the right of appeal was defective. Tho Appeal Board was.fairly constituted, and its decisions uero linal, but no officer had any- right 01 appeal against the decisions of the Promotions Board. The right was lined to (matters of salary. A man wh(i tailed to get promotion could not appeal V. 11 , 1 ? 8 ?. '"s salary had been changed. Tho oolicitor-General had ruled that the .Promotions .Board determined classification am the Secretary of the-Depart-ment determined salary; - The • officer could appeal against tho decision of the secretary but not against the decision of tho board. The Bill proposed to extend the right of appeal to cover classification.

u i A- VEEDCK {Wmiganui) supporicd the Bill, on tho ground that it wouki make for contentment and increased efficiency in the service. ~%• jjj A- H- FIELD (Nelson) thought i i, : an • lm l' ol 'tnnl: - one and 6liould be taken up by. tile Government, u i.« '(Bfccartan) supported tne i3hl. Chnstchuroh postal officers approved its provision!!, , . silt JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) >aid it vns not desirable that the time of House should I>o taken up discussing a. Bill that had not bt»6i circulated and that possibly did not exist. There waa a defect in the Standing Orders. The proposal-might be a good one, and hewould lik(K to see the Government give it consideration. Mr. Jlnssey: I will,if members will stay. ' There are a dozen Bills, in fhe same position. Sir Joseph Ward said the right of the 5? a Department to suspend, an oilicer . for .a spccinl 'offence ought not to Ik interfered with. ~J-_r (Wellington North). ,9' (Auckland West), Mr. \Y. H. Field (Otaki), mid Mr. D, Sykes (Jlasterton)' supported the Bill, wliicli was introduced and read a iirst time WOMEN'S NIGHTS. ■ HOUSE ACCEPTS THE AMEND- , , MENTS. The managers appointed to confer with the representatives of the Uuncil ic garding the amendments to the Women's Parliamentary Rights Extension Bill reported that tiiey had failed to reach an agreement.

The 1 RIME MINIS'!'!®- said ho v/an >n? to ask for another conference, iiie Council s managers had been adamant, and- there was no chance of agreement. The Houso had. now t? cliooso between accepting the Councils amendments or losing fhe Bill. lld proposed to ask the House to accept tho lesser evil, and would move Hint tho Council s amendment,, making the 1 Bill apply solely lo tho Ilnus-s, should bs; greed to. He had arranged with his collen"ue in the Legislative Council to bringdown >n that Chamber a Eill containing the clause that had been -struck ont by the Council. This would give the Council a dianco fo agree to the prnoosal con. '•uned in the original Bill. He did not propose to criticise the aclion of theCouncil or the ruling of its Sneaker SIB .TOSEPiT AVAED (Leader of'tii? Opposilrcn) said the wisest course had been The women woull be assured -their right of admission to the House, and a special Bill would rt ivo the Legislative Council an onnortnnitv to onen.the door to women without tho ques. tion of privilege being Tt was mite like old times In find the Cnmioil tak ; ng up smcTi an independent attitude. Mr. ,T. 'M'COM-liS (lyttelton) 'aid th-it in Pritain women had been given the right to- entT f n ry ocennation "xceni fie Army, the Navy, and the Church, •Peeresses had lifi-the right to sit in the House of Lords in their o>vn right Tf the Legislative Council had. looked to the Howe of Lords for ib? precedent, it would hnvo found no iustifintion.for tho claim of nrivilege if had udonVd. . The Tin,i, ,T. A. HANA)Y ffniercoritill) said that, however,. linrenwnnble it might, be. th« Heu-'t,- v;es up- against •>n' insiinernble liirnor, and it was not in n iio»il'on tn-fifht the nu--«tion to the' en-'. Tills occurrence hnd bee" a tniv. e-<tv on democriey. and he honed it would h" fu"v' fl'sciis-ed before the people at l''e . T).-. \-pTOM.AN r.-id t'm| the I'i'ime Alinic'-M- vns inking the riL'lil nct'o'i. M v-Mild el: 'Kavt permit w'onieii r-*<lirli" l^ lo cateit the <i]eclions. 'I'l>f* at 1 il w '* n of the T-nn"!'House wns I 'iii-pn-sternns. A w'uno eould he elected Prpoident of I lie Strips, -rninpn ••r-11 1 "1 lie i t) |-!,n T.eiKril" V'IK ; ""S. 1-..' m „l,| „ n f rU 1.|,„ V„... r f. n ,— ;1 ; e-,"—,'l-irrn. ;i v*nv rf do(lg : ntr llie whole lllH'4in-\ Air iy. nrMv\n'. ctfivVT?'!' rlin We~M .-vVicpfi llp Prime M-'nisfer I" recn.il In (!'" "ipivM-v of Hie T.-I-.U-of the rnimril h J « stnfei"elits of Inst vcar, to show Sir Francis Bell.how deeii-

lv ho was committed to the Bill. "lie could not now merely introduce the Bill. Ho must do hij best to see that it. went through.

.Mr. jr. HOLLAND (Gray) approved of the. resolution as tho best thing to do under tin- cii-cumstimces.

Mr. I!. M'CAId.UM (Wairau) said he was glad to seo that the Prune Minister had adopted a reasonable attitude. He dissented from the view that tho Upper House ought to pass all measures sent up from the Lower House. Tho motion was agreed t.o samoa" PROVISION FOR GOVERNMENT THE MANDATE. SIR JAMES ALLEN (Minister of Defence) moved the second rending of the Treaties of Vtfibc Bill. It had been hoped that it would have been possible to tiring down a comprehensive Bill dealing wilih this subject, no said, but tho Treaty had not be?n proclaimed, and consequently 110 such Bill could be introduced this session. But something must bo done this session, and the short Bill before tho House was intended to give the Government power to proclaim by regulation certain of the provisions for the carrying out of the mandate of tho New Zealand Govei'nmenti. over Samoa, so soon as tho Peace Treaty should be proclaimed. Definite information had been received from the Imperial Government that New Zealand would be given the mandate for Western Samoa. The terms of the mandate were already defined, but they could not 'be published, until they hati been approved by the League of Nations. This might ho . done at any\time, and news of it, might come any day. • Under these conditions the Bi)l being submitted was tho best provision that could be made, but he regretted exceedingly.that it was not possible to deal with the mutter finally by legislation such as ho had hoped to introduce. On August, 13, 1911, some 1400 men left New Zealand for a des. tination unknown to then). They occupied the island without loss, and this Bill was the outcome of that successful adventure. Ono of the burdens of tho war, to.New Zealand would be that of responsibility for the future control of Western Samoa. The native people of this island were nearly related to our own Maoris, . and it was our clear duty to those people to take charge of the future destinies of Western Samoa. He hoped thati there would ba no objections to the acceptance of the niaildule. liis own opinion was that' no Government was so well equipped as that of New Zealand to care for these brave and chivalrous and- generous Polynesian people. Eor this he would suggest that New Zealand ought to accept 1 he mandate. The advice tho Government hnd was Samoa would not be a British possession, nor even a British protectorate. Authority over .Samoa would be conferred by an Imperial regulation under the loreisn Jurisdiction Act. Ho assured members (if Parliament that tho Government desired to take members of Parliament into full confidence regarding the government, of Samoa. Before tho end of the session he, would circulate copies of the proposed Order-in-Council/ It was tho desire of tho New Zealand Government not to take away any of the liberties of tho native people of Samoa. The crest • Administrator was advised bv two m:i chiefs, and this practico would con inue. Provision would be made also for representation of the white people in the Government by the appointment to th? Legislative Council, consisting of not more than four members. of certain Public Servants in' executive positions m the Administration. For tho present there would bo no election of representatives. This could be provided for later, but for the present the Government would proceed bv appointment. Ho thought it would bo wise to make tho Civil Service 1 of Samoa part and parcel of the New Zealand CiviJ Service; Probably the term of service in Samoa would be limitedt to three' years. The mandate would open Samoa to trade with New Zealand. With resrard to land in Samoa the. position was different from that in tho Cook Group. The lamia belonged to the natives, and their rights would bo preserved to them. The Government was directed to protect the natives by preventing them from obtiining firearms or intoxicating liquor. With regard to the liquor question, it would be wise to put native and Euronean on the same footing, and this could lie' done onlv'by putting Samoa under total prohibition. (Hear, hear.) He regretted that this could not all be submitted in the form of a Bill, but the Government .was alNSolntelv prohibited from doing this. Ho spoke of finance also. The salaries of administrative staff would be borne by the revenues of Samoa, and ho beli-sv-.'d that the w.hole cost of Samoan government would bo met by the, revenues of Samoa. If thero was a loss if must be borno by 'the New Zealand Government. Leader of tho Opposition, SIR . JOSEPH WARD (Leader of the Opposition) said that lie thought next session Parliament should commence de novo to produce legislation to take the placer of the Order-in-Council , proposed providing for tho government of Samoa. Ho thought. the native races should 'havo representation in the Samoan Legislature. Mr. Payne: Not on equality with the European members, surely ? ' Sir' Joseph Ward: In this country the representatives of the Native race ihave equal rights with the European members. Mr. Payne-. Which they should not have. Sir Joseph Ward urged that, steps should be taken to keep tho New Zealand currency in Samoa, and not to allow American money, from. American Samoa, to become the general medium of exchange in Samoa. The New Status. . Mr. W. D. STEWART (Dnnedin West) said the signing of tho Pence Treaty by tho British dominions had raised ' the whole question of their status. Constitutional authorities had agreed that the right to decide the issues of pence and ' 'war was the final test of independence. | The issue that bad been raised was going to be of. the gravest importance in tho future. Had the representatives of New Zealand considered what tho effect of their action was going, to be when tliey signed the Treaty and so placed upon tho Dominion the duties and privileges of an independent Powir? The signing had been regarded by many people as a now 1ml; of Empire, but it aiicrht provo to be the first and most important step towards complete independence. New Zealand and the other dominions had assumed the Status of sovereign Powers. Their citizens could not own allegiance to two sovereign Powers. What was going to be tho position of-New Zealand in the future if the Dominion disagreed with some Eastern Powe:r regarding Samoa, for example, and its views did not asreo with the views of Canada? Had New Zealand signed the Treaty as a sovereign State or had it merely indicated approval of the action of Britain in signing? If it had signed as a sovereign Power, a very anomalous position' had been created, and sooner or later foreign Powers would want the nosition defined. Thii' signing, from a le!, r nl viewpoint, had been an act of separation and- not of union, and 110 would lilco to know if New Zealand's representatives had given any serious consideration to the position. He approved of tho acceptance of tho Samoiin mandate, although it added to the implication of tho signatures to the Peace Treaty. "Anti-New Zealand," Mr. H. HOLLAND (Grey) said tho proposals for the government of Samoa had no democratic feature, and certainly would not be approved by the workers. Wa.s it not a, fact that Samoa was almost, entirely anti-New Zealand already? Sir James Allen: No. Nonsense. Mr. Holland quoted a letter from Samoa regarding tho censorship, which ho said was oppressive in the extreme. The Samoans wero capable of r,olf-govern-nient and' ought to l>? allowed to govern themselves. Their history proved their ability i?i this respect. Mr. Holland proceeded to survey Snmonn history from aM American viewpoint. >! ( .ml,rr.< of the House wive signs nf w.-ai-i'irss after li'l-ii'M': fp"- =oi>"> tim" to what one member called "»ecn»d primer stuff," and Ibov were warmly reproved by Mr. Hclland for nit taking the business of III? country seriously. Mr. Massry's Vi:w, The Right Hon. W. F. MAS-

SKY said ho had listened to a spcfcli. .that wider other circumstances might have been interesting. But what an extraordinary disposition a man must have when he coijld say a good word for every other country in the world and not one guud word lor tho country to which he belonged. The member for Grey had quoted some correspondence criticising adversely tho administration of Samoa since the Germans were ejected. Tho sentences quoted had earned their own impress of prejudice ngainst Britain. There wero a good many people in Samoa still who had a prejudice of that kind. Mr. Payne: German extraction. Air. Massey said New Zealand had not wanted Siimoa bccausc it happened to 1)0 a fertile island. Tho position had been that Samoa and Rabniil, (ho two most important strategical points in the Pacific, had been -hold by Germany. That had been a- dangerous position from a : British point of view, and so Samoa and Rabaui had been brought under the flags of New Zealand and Australia, because ] the dominions could not afford to be ; threatened by an'enemy in their vicinity. Dominion Status. ■Reference had been mads by Mr. j Downio Stewart to the signing of the , Peace Treaty by tho representatives of ' the dominions! The member had asked ! if the effect of the sisnatures had been ' understood. "The position was thoroughly understood," said Mr. Massey. "We isigned not as independent nations in the I ordinary sense of the term, but as nations within the British Empire, as yart- ' ners in the Empire. I mean partners ! with everything that the name implies. It has. been suggested that the groat change that has taken place in the British Constitution dates from the sighing iof the Peace Treaty. My opinion is that the change that has taken place, and it is a. most important chnnge, dates from the time when the representatives of the dominions were called into the councils of the Empire. It dates from the setting up of the first Imperial War Cabinet, when the dominions were asked to.srnd representatives totakepartin the discussions and deliberations arising out of the war." Another Imperial Conference. "There was very much more i to k be done," added Mr. Massey. "But ■ the British Constitution had always proceeded from precedent to precedent, and tho problems that remained would bo .worked out. There was an understanding among the representative men of the British Empire, that when matters got back to normal a conference would bo callcd and an attempt .made to draft, a Constitution that would be suitable to the' changed circumstances of the Empire. New Zealand would be represented at that conference, "No Dominion has power to mako cither peaco.or war,'' snid Mr. Massey. "The Dominions joined with the Government of the United Kingdom in signing the Peace Treaty. If it: incomes necessary in the future for Britain to declare war. it will declare war as an Empire, not as England or .the United Kingdom, but as the British 'Empire. In the making of peace and war the British Dominions, as partners of Empire, will have full.say. There is no such thing as a tendency to break away on the part of tho British Dominions. What has happened' since tho Imperial War Cabinet was set up in 1917. when the.Dominion statesmen were called to assist the Empire at a difficult and critical time, his brought us closer together. We have been brought closer together than ever before. Tho Empire is more .united than ever before. . . We have one Empire and one constitution, and I believe wc- will form in alliance • that will last for all time." The Alternative. If New Zealand did riot accept 'ho mandate, then there was only ono.alternative—the island -must go to a foreign Power. He had been impressed before going to the Conference with the idea of Samoa being annexed by Britain. But the Conference would not allow annexation. A form of mandate ■ had been provided, and under it New Zealand would not bo interfered with. And we dare not let Samoa no: Ho believed that it would bo self-supporting. Ho had found in England that there was a good deal of interest in Samoa, especially among the soldiers. Numbers of officers had consulted hirri with regard ,to. Samoa as a field for settlement,' and he had no doubt that li good class, of settlers would be 'attracted' to' Samoa./ When he was cnlled beta the Council of the Powers to put- the views of New Zealand on the Samoan question, he mentioned that the natives of Samoa were of the same race as the Coolc Islanders and the Maoris, all speaking nearly tho same languase. Somewhat to liis; snmriso a great deal of importance was attached to this point. Ho said that lie liked no better than other member" the method of dealing with the problem proposed by the Bill. But it was the only method possible at present. Next session he honed that the whole matter would be dealt with fully by Parliament by way of <i Bill. Pacific Defence, ; Admiral Jellicoe in his report -had made many important recommendations. His <»wn opinion was that tho next war would bo a naval war, and the_ storm centre would be the Pacific. Evidences were accumulating of preparations for this war by nations borderine the Pacific. We mur.t begin to prepare at once. Possibly we might, not be able to. do so much as Admiral Jelliroe recommended, but we must, do something at once. He believed that if tho Empire ever should be engaged in a naval war that the Dominions would stand bv the Mother Country ,15 they had stood in this war just ended. In Arcadia, Tho Hon. A. T. NGATA (Eastern Maori) said that the greatest advantago the Polynesian races had obtained from the war would bo tho extension of Bri-. iish dominion in tho Pacific.' Ho believed that New Zealand wa.s better, fitted to carry on the government of Polynesian " people than . any other country. He eluded Mr. Holland gently on some little imperfections in his

"lecture," which, lie suggested, was the produce of "crammed" and partly digested history. Mr. Ngata said that' be ■ would very much like to seo a representative. perhaps two representatives, of tho Samoan natives in the Upper Houso. for he was sure that the good relations between the whites and the Maoris was in 110 small part due to the presence of Maori representatives in Parliament. He referred to the remark of the memliei' for Grey Lynn flint Maori representatives should not lie on the same footing as European members in Parliament. Mr.' Payne said that he liad meant that 110 Maori should have the right to decide tho fate of a Government, that ho white, 1 man' should be ruled by a Maori; 1 Dr. Pomare: Tliats democracy! Mr. Payne: We find the. vote of one Maori deciding the fato of tho Government. Mr. Ngata: "I remember that alter the election before last the honourable gentleman had a good s deal to do with the making of the Government of this country. \. . . Tho -honourable member is a white man. But yet. the people of Dnnedin might 1 resent being governed by tlio member for Grey Lynn. . I know ">ll about the member for Grey Lynn, nis is the only picture show in the country Which allows 110 Maoris to go into the dress circle." Mr. Ngata stroke of the great boon of education to the Maoris in New Zealand, end lie believed that much good would bo done, by the education of the Samoans. Ho w'o= not prepared to exnrcss confident oninions mi indentured labour, but he did rot like it. IT" had a "reet obiection to bringing Asiatic people into 0011tac 1 with Polynesian people. What he wished was that tho Government shou'd not stress the tre'le fnefnr over much, and that we should fry the experiment 111 the last home of romance in the Pacific of aiming wholly at tho happiness of the Samoans.

"A -Black Man's Country." Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) snid that it was a matter of rejoicing to bim that the. Parliament of New Zealnnd was dealing with such a. Bill. ■ Ho did not wish to «eo members for Samoa in Parliament heciu-" hi -id not wish to see repented the that hnd occurred in New Z.\-i!-iii.'. where a ,\ii:-:-:-i menibpr, elected bv i .'0 humh(\i votes, was the eijual as a nu.-aber of the Hon?" of a member eicc-ted i\v four or five thousand votes. Ma.iris sfrsnld have the right to vote on all matte;:.'affecting their own people, but flier sh<v,'d not havo the right to make and un'Y;'' Govei'nments, to control

white people. As for indentured people, he was of opinion that Samoa was a black man's country, and ho could not understand the Labour people fyii't? to force white men to go there to work. Labour could bo indentured under lair conditions, and. the people indenwould bo very mucn better off than in their own country. Mr. C. 11. POOLE (Auckland West) said he dissented strongly- frotn the view that Maori members ought not to be ennui with white members of the House. Ho feared the possible result of introducing Asiatic labour on . the Samoan neople. Under German rule the' coolies wero forced to'work as slaves. Cruelties were practised by the Germans in Samoa Which would provide a second volume to "Uncle Tom's Cabin." He suggested that the Government should not indenture Asiatics, but rather negroes from the West Indies, British subjects, who could understand Iho contract they were making whsa they signed. So long as there was no slavery, ho would not obiect to the mandate. " Unfortunate But Inevitable. Mr. C. J. PAIiR (Men) said he would vote for the mandate because he aiw no other way out. He would have preferred to see Samoa administered as a Crown colony. . There was veal danger, as had Ibeen shown in the debate, that Samoan affairs would b» the subject of party conflict in the House. He was sure thai; under the Colonial Office the natives of Samoa would have fared well. But it appeared that Britain wished in' be relieved of the burden, and if this .were so New Zealand could give only one answer. Although the prospect of keeping Samoa in Arcadian simplicity was attractive, it was the clear duty of the Government to develop the country, and this could not be done without labour from without. Unfortunately the danger from indenturing labour was real. The problems at Rnmsa were such as to deserve the attention of a special committee of the House during the recess.

The Hon. J. A. HANAN (Invercargill) said that he was opposed t.o indentured labour, and he thought the Government should take a referendum of the people 011 the question. They would assuredly turn it- dowii. Rather than have 'tho people of Samoa destroyed and depraved, he would prefer to see Samoa go back to nature. What' the Government might do was to educate the people. Mr. P. ERASER (Wellington Central) said he regretted that the mandate made no adequate provision for representative Government. He also expressed strongest disapproval of the indentured labour proposals, If they 'were adopted it would bo diffisult to keep Asiatics out of this country. He never could havo believed that the Liberal Party would have stood 'for indentured labour.

Sir Joseph Ward: I have never expressed myself in favour of indentured labour.

Mr. Ri M'CALLUM (Wairau) said thai the method of dealing with tfiis matter now proposed was wrong. The Government should ask both, Houses -U> agree by resolution that New Zealand should take up the mandate, and next year tho Government should bring down.a Bill. He would never support any system of indentured labour. . There must bo .absolutely freo contract, between worker and employer.

3lr. J. M'COMBS (Lyttelton) opposed indentured labour Minister in Reply, SIR- JAMES ALLEN, in reply, said the Peace Treaty gave the New Zealand Government power to take over all iho assets of Germans in Snmoa, and tho Government would use the power. He said that the indentured labour yf Samoa was not so badly controlled as was represented. Ha liked indentured labour as little as any member- of the House, but they wero faced with facts, and tho islands could not be carried on without imported labour. What they all hoped was' that gradually the Samoans would be educated up to work, and then they would work tlio plantations 'for themselves. But this process would take more than a generation. Tho Government could not allow the island to return to nature. The world needed, the raw materials, and it was the duty of New. Zealand to make i the! , island as productive , as possible. He. explained that it was.. impossible to delay the passing of the Bill, and_ also impossible to'inlrodnC-e a-Bill providing in detail for the government of Samoa. The Imperial authorities would not allow this, so that this bigger task would have to wait until next year. If the prosent Bill were not passed, the military occupation would have to reninim and ho was anxious to get rid of this as soon as possibFe. l ■ Tine Bill was read a second time. EXTERNAL~AFFAIRS BILL, SIR JAMES ALLEN moved the second reading of the External Affairs Bill, explaining that it would be necessary to have a "responsible Minister to taltc charge of tho administration of the mandate. Even without tho mandate it was desirablo that all external affairs should be concentrated under tho control of one Minister. ,

SIR JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) asked what was .intended nnder ( lie Bill. Was there to bo a new Minister appointed, 'to increase permanently tho number of Ministers?

Sir James Allen paid, that the Minister of External Affaire would administer the Cook L<ands and Samoa, and he would also co-ordinate all matters affecting New Zealand's relations , with the 'Home Country and oilier countries, lie would be resident in New Zealand. The Bill was read u second time. In Committee. In Committee 011 the Bill, . Mil. Hoi'.-and moveit itn amendment to tilt effect that tho Ordcr-in-Council to be made under the Bill should provide that 110 indentured labour should ue permitted in Samoa. • Sir James 'Ajiten said that he must ask the House to reject tho amendment. 11 it were carried lie would have to recommend tho House , not to accept the mandate 'at all, because, it would mean that 110 .labour could be introduced into tho Islands.

Mr! l'Yaser: Not at all. No indentured labour.

Sir James Allen said that some form of indenturing would bo necessary. Tho workers had to bo brought from a great distance, and transport was (iifficnlt and costly. The indentures would have to bo properly scrutinised, but some scheme of the sort would have to 'bo provided for. Sir Joseph Ward proposed that, the Bill bo held over, and the Order-in-Coun-cil circulated. He would not vote for indentured labour.

Sir James Allen suggested that tho Bill be passed. It did not 'provide for labour at all, so that the passage of tho Bill would not settle the question. Next week he would circulate the Order-in-Council.

Mr/Massov said that the Government would undertake to bring tho matter up next session. ' He was opposed to the indenturing of labour, and hoped even vet that it would not be necessary. But the noed for labour was urgent, and unless tho . plantations were tended they would be mined. Some, lie had been informed, were ruined already. | Dr. Newman urged that it would be verv cruel to bring a lot of alien workers into Samoa. Tho Houie should lcok upon the question from the Samoan point of view. In tho interests of some planters and a little wealth the Government was going to do a great wrong to, tho Samoans. Ho suggested tho postponement of the Bill.

Sir. Massey: Wo must have some legislation to. carry 011 with.

Mr. Massey said that tho choice must bo mado of tlio less of two evils. If we did not take, up the maudato then Samoa would go to another Power, and Samoa was perhaps tlio most important strategic position in tho Pacific. Labour could not bo obtained at pvient without indentures. and much ho disliked the idea, ho had to ask tho House to accept it. Hb had hopes that one day the Samoans would be educated to work, but for tho present they would not work.

Sir James Alien spoke npaiu of the deterioration of the plantations owing, to lack of labour, When war broko out there were two thousand Chinese at Samoa, and vhero were now eight hundred. It, wa.s not possiblo to get free labour from other Pacific islands.

Dr. I'omare said that he had just come bnck from the Islands, and labour was the crying need there. Tho Samoans would not -work, ami the labour for the must be obtained from outside, No inducements would make tho Samoans work. The plantations were going to d'uin now, and they would re-

■vert to jungle very soon. The -Arcadian idea was nil very well, l>ut the Government must get revenue to run the country. Tlie alternative was to put the additional- burden on the people of New Zealand. Mr. Wittv Fftid thnt the Sumoans could lie induced to work if they were properly treated. Mr. Forbes confessed thnt he was in a Miandary, He did not know enough about the question to vole on it, but he fenred that if no labour-were brought into Samoa the inland would be ruined, ami wo would be wiser to refuse the inundate. After some further discussion both Bills were passed. The House lmrat 2.5 a.m..

Permanent link to this item
Hononga pūmau ki tēnei tūemi

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DOM19191018.2.73

Bibliographic details
Ngā taipitopito pukapuka

Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 20, 18 October 1919, Page 10

Word count
Tapeke kupu
5,462

PARLIAMENT Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 20, 18 October 1919, Page 10

PARLIAMENT Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 20, 18 October 1919, Page 10

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