THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 13, Issue 7, 3 October 1919, Page 8

THE HOUSE

financial debate The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. The. Financial Debate was resumed at 2.50 p.m. ' . Mr. J. ,P.' LUKE (Wellington North) first referred to tlie work of tho. National Government in the war period, expressing the opinion that the union of the parties had made the excellent record of New Zealand possible. The Government- was to be oomplimented on the buoyancy of the revenue, and the gpnernllv satisfactory' condition 1 of the finances. He wholly approved, of the idea of using the accumulated _ surpluses for tho purpose of repatriating the soldiors, but lie did not endorse the proposition that the country should have sinking funds. He suggested that tho Public Works-Depart-ment should co-operate' more with the. Railway Department to avoid mistakes frequently made in the past in the building, of railways. As, to the housing ■problem, the Wellington- City Council 'was doing its best to go on with a schemo 'of house building. Land had boen purchased, and tenders, called for tho building of the first instalment' of the houses; but no tenders were forthcoming.. He believed t&at this lack of labour was tho real reason for slow .progress in public works, but'he believed more rapid progress might be made if more energy were'6hown by tie.Denartment. He would like to see the State Advances Department making moro ad-' vahces to workers. The amount lent to workers was relatively small compared with that advanced iinder other heads. Referring to the industrial [problems of the hour he expressed the opinion that better relations - between, employer and employee ought to be possible, and that constitutional means ought to be possible for the settlement of all disputes. He gave some of his own ideas for the establishment of a council to determine wages and conditions. ' He advocated better rnilway transport to relieve the congestion ■ of the cities, and to this end he urged that some steps ought to be taken to, brwqf suburban boroughs surrounding Wellington and other cities in the metropolitan area.- He 6poke also of the superannuation schemes for the employees of local bodies nakini? for legislation to enable the local bodies to pay rotirinf allowfinceg to older employees. • He' nskPn for this "because if these people wore forced on to - the- superannuation 'funds, to bo established this would. im\ke the establishment of the funds-difficult or imnnssibV He advocated tbe nationalisation, of'the coal mines nnd the Stato mirclie«e of steamers to.bHnu.the coal from the mines. . He favoured also the State acquisition of tbe ferry service, i and the placing on tbe run of fast oil-burning steamers.; He urged the Government to press on with the Mangahao scheme. On the Labour Group. Mr. L. M. ISITT (ChristchuTch Norths said that he had been constrained to 6pealc on the debate by some remarks of the member for Dunedin West That honourable member had said that it was time this sham fight between the Reform and Liberal Parties ceased. The truth of the matter was that Mr. Downio Stewart had no quarrel with the Liberal Party, being one of the most radical men, in tho House, - but it was quite wrong (to Eay that there were no , essential differences between the two parties. This was a pernicious cry, for the efect of it must be-to drive.a large proportion of tho people into 'the arms of extreme Labour. The Labour people 'themselves had persistently tried to make the people believe that there > only two parties in the country, the Labour Party and the Massey Party. When the National Government was formed Mr. Payne had supported the proposal. Mr. Holland: Wis he speaking for Labour? , Mr.i Isitt: How did wo know whether lie spoke for tho Laboar l'arty or, not! They were all squabbling among themselves as they are now. How were you elected Leader of the Labour Party? Mr. Holland: The same way as you elect your leader, I suppose. Mr. .fsitt: "Wo have never put the names in a hat to select a leader yet." (Laughter.) He went c-n to say that although not a word was said by any momber of the Labour Party to disclnim ( what Mr. Payne had said, the National Government had scarcely been formed when Mr. M'Combs began to twit 'the Government with the name "Coalition Government." ' had assiduously tried to ine.ulcate the idei that tho fusion wns complete. The aim of the Labour people was to becomo .tho official opposition to some other party, which they called the Massey Party . If the question over arose in this shape, then ho would rather see the country run by bis friend Mr. Massey than that it should bo handed over to the tender uiorcies of the momber for Groy. Mr.. Isitt said that in all tho war the Labour leaders had done everything they dare do to make it difficult for this - country to bear its part in the. war. In all tho ■war they had said much about the pinpricking policy of the British Kmpire, but nevor a word against tho damnable policy oi, the German Empire. While the call was being made "or volunteers for the Army they did' everything they daTed short of sedition to discourage men from gol.ng to fight, saying, iu elfect, that .a man should not bo asked to go until something which was called "equality of sacrifice" was arranged. If ever labour had been be. trayeil, it had ken by tlie ilvo members of tho House who called themselves the leaders of tho Labour Party. Some time -ago a man in Ch.ristchurch had declared that he would rather live under German than under British rule. When that man was apprehended and convictcd it had been the Labour Party which paid his fine.

Mr. Holland'and Mr. M'Combs: Not a penny of it. Mr. Isitt: Then who paid it? Mr. M'Couilw: Tlio National Peace Council. Mr. Isitt: "And how many of tho members of the National Peace Council belong to tho Labour Party? You can't separate them. They are all interwoven and mixed up." Mr. Isitt went on presently to discuss the Budget. He said that he did not approve of the proposal to spend .£IOO,OOO on a War Memorial. Ho hoped tho Government would retain the sum as a nucleus of a. larger fund to be formed by public subscription for the establishment of some memorial which would have eomo usefulness. He did not apnrovo of tho recommendations of tho Industries Committee regnrding the fostering of for wino production. Ho produced figures to show that the culture of grapes for wino growing in California was not comparablo

in profit with the culture of grapes for dessort use or for raisins. He Baid that tho Industries Committee had been sadly "takon in." In Australia the wiuo shops ivero the most disreputable of tlio liquor-selling places in tho country. In South Australia they worked deplorable harm among the young people. More People. Mr. A. HARRIS (Waitemata) spoke of the financial position, stating his opinion that it was one for concern, though riot necessarily for alarm. The heavy taxation of the war period had al been borne by people of wealth. He urged the Government to embark on, an immigration policy to supply workers for public works and industries. He strongly ' urged the Government to adopt' a vigorous! housing policy. Mr. Harris urged the Government to deal with the "go-slow" -policy now in operation at the coaf. niinefc-. He taid that the proprietors of the Iviripaka mine had killed the "go-slow" scheme ii: «• week-'by telling the men that until they worked in a normal way the. mine would be closed down. What was the Government going to do at the Stato mine? Miners' Grievances. Mr. R, S'EUPLE (Wellington South) accused the Government of "slaughtering hundreds of miners" by failing to secure proper conditions of work in the quartz mines. He discussed the coal production and supply proWem a-iong familiar lines. His chiof point was that tlie miner got 3s. a ton while tho consumer paid .£3 10s. a ton. Discussing the rationalisation question, ho said that no one would suggest that the Government should buy all tho mineß in New Zealand. Some of them were white elephants, and lie'named a few of them.' But tliero were profitable mines, and the Government if it bought mines would do so on oareful valuations after exhaustive prospects had boon made to discover the probable resources of the mines. He dedlared tliat direct action teachings were adopted because the workers were losing faith in ' Parliament.; About "Root Causes." SIR JOHN FINDLAY (ITawke's Bay) discussed the proposition that it was a common error in the body politic to mislake the symptom for the root cause. And he said again that the root caußO of tho higher; cost of living was the depreciation of. the currency by inflation. So, also, he said, that the Land for Settlement Act, framed for tho purpose of helping the poor man to get on tho land, a beneficent purpose, had had the evil result of causing much of tho "present high price of land: With numerous instances he sought to show that much of the :abour unrest of past days wns due to the' oppression and ill-trentment of workers. Until the workers' status was determined by his service to the, community the.' radical errors of past days would never bo corrected. Those services most .vital to the community were often'those, least esteemed, as,in the calling of coal-mining. The basis of assessment of tho work and the worker must not any longer bo one of profit-making merely,- without thought for the human clement. England had risen , to ' industrial pre-eminence by methods of which every honest man must be ashamed, (Hear, hear.) All these influences in the past bad done more to give rise to the class war and the sense of wrong cherished by the workers of to-day than any causes giving rise to sense of real Wongs of this day. Generally his conclusion. was that in future there must bo more co-operation between employer and omployed, not only in the operation of industry, but in tho controlof it. The hard, bitter commercial spirit must be banished, and we must look upon these groat problems of 'Labour and Capitol from the viewpoint of tho brotherhood of man. Labour and Bolshevism. Mr. R. A. WRIGHT (Wellington " Suburbs) said if what 1 th«i member for Welliigton- So.uth had Baid about the '.sufferings quartz miners was true, the mines ought to be forever closed. But to abuse members of tho Houso and the Government for what had happened was absolutely wrong. More money than enough was wasted on bolstering up gold mines. The .Government hod spent money on prospecting when the-sole, result was to give, some people comfortable billots at public expense. All the evidence showed that goldminiug was deadly and injurious. Let the mines be closed. llie country had got along vfery well for four years without gold, and he thought tho country could do without it permanently. Mr. Semplo had said he did not believe in force, and that the Labour Party did. not believe in force. But he had siud publicly on another occasion that no "gloried in the Russian working mans pluck, and that if he, were in Russia lie would be with Trotsky and Lenin.' Did not these men believe in foroe? Mr. Semple and other Labour men had said, that the statements about these gentlemen were not true, but the evidence went in the other direction. The extremists in Russia ha<i produced conditions untold horror, and their aims and ideals were simply those of the extremists in this country. They wanted to control the means of production and exohange in the interests of the workers. • Mr. Semple: You used to believe in ' Mr. Wright: "I never believed in theft or robbery in my life." Mr. Semple stood with tho anarchists,' with those who wished to wreck society on the offchance of 1 being able to build something out of the wreckage. Affcor traversing -other statements of the member for .Wellington South, he spoke of-failures of.'Socialism, making special reference to the Australian colony tnat went to Paraguay some twenty-five years ago. That colony had a perfect chance to try out their theories of Socialism, but the scheme failed .because of inherent faults in the theories. The people would not'work, and they were to starvation. They had stop-work meetings, would scarcely work at all, and presently the colony dispersed,-the whole venture having been a dismal failure. Mr. Wright agreed that the inflation of the currency as indicated hy tho increase of the note issue from .£2,000,000 to 000. was responsible largoly for the increase, in the cost of living. •Mr. H. G. ELL (Christchurch South) said no man had a right to say he represented the workers when lie expressed disapproval of the nation's effort in the war. There wero mon who had no loyalty'l who had turned a deaf ear to tlie call of the boys at the front, but .these men did not represent the workers of New Zealand any more than they repre-' sented the soldiers who had won tho war The Houso had tried to improve tho conditions of mine labour already and would undoubtedly accept any fuitiler remedy that would be devised by Labour members. Mr. Ell denied that since Air. Scddou's death the Libcial Pnrtv had drifted on tho stream of reaction. Badly-Paid Teachers. Mr. T. A. H." FIELD (Nelson) also devoted some little time to discussion of tho extreme Labour Party.. He. declared that the extrcmo Labour section were often aliens in New Zealand ofton not British, representing tho Bolshevists, the Sinn i'ein element, and the faddists. The samo sort of invasion by Bolshevist aliens had been noted in Lnglaud, and they'liad been distributing their poisonous literature there.' j An hon. member: Any of it coming h Mr. Field: " I don't know, but I am inclined to think so." He said tliat there wns amplo evidence that the funds lor all this propaganda woro being found in Russia or in Germany. The five membore of the Labour Party were not entitled to call themselves tho lenders of the workers in this country. When these people were going round the country they talked very moderately to audiences of farmers, and a little diflorontly to other listeners. He made an npnenl for more consideration for the secondary school teachers. These teachers werenot nearly so well treated as those in tlio primary school service, and t'hey could not get into the public school service. Theirs was really a dend-end employment, Tho salaries .were high enough to befin with to tempt young students, but those men who wished to progress often left the profession altogether. It was an urgent necessity that these teachers should receive bettor pay, and he advised Hie Govemmont to adopt tho schomc formulated by tlie Secondary School Teachers' Association. Even tlio primary school teache-rs were not sufficiently well paid, and in his opinion the Government would be wiser to spend money on belter salaries than on now schools. Promotion

bars were raised against the teacher by tlio district boundaries'. Soldiers' Needs. Mr. G. HUNTEII (Wuipawa) congratulated the Government on being able to show a. substantial surplus in the first year of reconstruction. The exports hail remained at a most satisfactory level. Ho urged that land hoards should be more liberal in the advances to soldiers for improvements. There was great difficulty at present in pereuadiug laud boards to inako full advances. The returned men required sympathetic assistance. Ho was sorry tho Lands Committee had not supported the request of the South African veterans t<> be placed on the, some footing as recently returned soldiers. These men had a claim upon tho country. The i'lnancial Statement had made reference to swam)) laud in liis district, namely, the Poukawa Lake. The 'alive owners of that swamp ought to bo treated generously, but they should be required to part with tho land in order that it might be made reproductive. An area of first-class land in tho neighbourhood of a railway should not he allowed to remain idle.' Mr. Hunter advocated the rapid development of tho Waikarcmoana power scheme. The utilisation of the accumulated surpluses for soldiers' settlement was a sound move. This inonev had always been regarded n* an emergency fund, . and 110 greater emergency had arisen than the repatriation of tho soldiers. The improvement of the accommodation for teachers in the hack-blocks was ail absolute necessity. The children of the country districts could not. get the education they were entitlsil to unless the Government made it possible for teachers to serve the country schools. Mr. C. H. POOLE (Auckland West) said the Board of Trade, while composed of ablo men, hc.d.yet proved ineffectual because of weakness of the legislation under which it. worked. He spoko of the danger threatening , this country from over-capitalisation, 01' land and industry. Some years ago a catastrophe overtook Victoria, a very rich 'State, through over-canitalisating, and we seemed in this country to be following along tho saino easy paths. This Government ought to exercise care and not go in for lavish expenditure. Mr. J. A. ANSTEY (Waitaki) said that he did not think the State would make a success of nationalising the coal industry or other industries unless it had the services of practical men. The proof of this was tli.ot the Stato managed its present affairs badly. He was strongly 111 favour (3f a State monopoly of insurance, especially accident insurance, which at present was a fruitful field for a small group Of financiers. The debate was adjourned 011 the motion of Mr. Talbot (Teniuka). The House rose at 1.10 a.m. .