THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 305, 20 September 1919, Page 7

THE HOUSE

BOARD OF TRADE BILL

COMMITTEE TALK

GENERAL APPROVAL OF MEASURE.

The Board of-Trade Bill was considered in committee..

■ Mr. 'I?.-. .A . . Wright .Wellington Suburbs) stmges'ed that a. committee should Vie allowed to hear evidence from persons likely to be affected- by the Bill. The House should be careful not to in. flict 'injustice.- • .'..'-,.

The Hon. A. M. Myers (Auckland East) suggested.' that .local committees should be set up to examine the-ques-tion of profits with- regard to 'local condi. tions. ... ..'..;.. .....

-. Mi;. L. M. Isitt • (Christchurch North) e.iifl the enormous powers to be given to the- Board of Trade, would- be disastrous to traders if used recklessly. He thought nersons convicted-of profiteering should have a--right of appeal-to ihe Supreme ■Court-

-Mr. W.-A. Veitcli.(Wanganui) said tho •House must either give the board extraordinary powers or else abandon altogether the attempt to stop profiteering. Prices must be fixed either by the Board of Trade or the profiteers: . Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt) argued that the. assessment of profits was not as eimple as some people thought. Consideration must be given to the position of the retailer when ie faced a rising market, and bad to maintain stock, fie did not think, a-right-of appeal was necestsary. _ The real danger was that the .board would .not prosecuto sufficiently often. Sir John Findlay (Hawko's Bay) described the Bill as ."an. advanced piece of. legislation without . 'rival in the world." . ...... An Elective Board? . .The Hon. G. W. Russell, (Avon)' said he 'bought it was a pity that all the members of the board'were to be appointed by the.Government. There should bo representation of. trro great commercial interesls—the manufacturers, tho Airport, ers. and the general public. Mr. l'-rasen. What about the worKers? Mr. Russell suid he would like to sco the Government take power by direct action to stop profiteering. The Government Should take power to take meat out of tho cold, stores, paying ln» export parity, and sell it here Oo consumers. The'.sanie might, be done in regard, tu butter and cheese. He urged' (lie .Gov eminent to reduce the price ot limber, and so reduce the cost of house building by setting up'its own sawmills. A Good Bill". The Prime Minister said he was glaxi that the criticism* or the .dill had not been adverse. As to Mr. Wright's suggestion that the Bill should go to a committee, it would not bo fair to allow a. committee of. tun members or so to overrule the decisions of the House. But it might bo the subject of a committee inquiry in the Uppsr House, lie mutt edniit that he was in sympathy with the utea that there sliottld no a, right or appeal. - -Sir John Findlay said that there was an Appeal on law and fact if the amount involved were more than .£5. Air.. Mnssoy said that if this appeal satisfied his friends of the legal profession, he was well pleased. . As to llio fiiig-restions of Mr. Russell regarding meat, his ideas were all in operation ]iuv. Some lli'J of the meat salesmen vi ,tnis country hud the righb to draw their meat from the freezing works. He ■was glad of tho reception given to the Bill. Admittedly it was a drastic Bill, but"ib had to be drastic to be effective. Mr. M'Combs declared that the pre sent Government would never liinke regulations s'uiheient to enable Ihe bouril to work effectively."' The House should insist on the right to clothe the Board of .Trade' with powers; Mr. Payne declared dial (he Governmcul: had been "cowardly" in setting up a Board of Trade instead of allowing. Parliament to do the work. • Mr. C. J. Parr (Eden) said he welcomed Ihe Bill, and congratulated the Government on having introduced it. His only fear was that the members of tho board to be set up might be. gentlemen showing no more energy than the Members' of the present board, whose fear veai's of oHicc had been character; Sed .'bv inactivity and -tiller futility. There "ought to be"have been hundreds of prosecutions for profiteering. Why hud they not been pressed? Possibly

it was becauso the board had not enough power. Ho hoped this was the only reuson. He hoped for immediate results from tho passing of this Bill. Mr. J. A. Hauan (Invercargill) said that whon tho Arbitration Court was first set up it gave general satisfaction. No one would say it did so now. He hoped that tho same process would not bo observed in connection with the Board of Trade. He thought it would in tho end provo hopeless to control tho prices of commodities whilo the price of land re-, mained uncontrolled. The Simple Rustic. The Hon. A. T. Ngata said that farmers' meat was commandeered at' about ijd. a pound, yet the local butcher near where he lived charged to the farmers who' grew the meat Is. a pouuu for it. Sir. PayjH>: Why don't you kill your own—or kill the butcher? Air.- Ngota 6aid that tho "man in town," tho middleman, had been getting all the profits. Fawners had had their produce, taken at low prices. .."'..- Mr. Isitt: "How do you account.for all the trade in motor-cars, then? Thoy havo been buying motor-cars by the thousand." He said that the only class that hod better not be represented on the Board of Trade were the farmers, for they could hot circumvent the city men. ■They must, set a thief to catch a thief. (Laughter.) The 'farmers' representative would never be able to beat the'middleman. Ho'would suggest that Labour bo represented on the board. Labour members: Hear, hear. Mr. Veitch: First you say you need a. thief, and then you say a Labour man! In Defence of the Board. ■Mr. Isitt (Christclmrch North) said he regretted that members had passed unfriendly criticisms on the Board of Trade. The reason for the inactivity of the board was that they had not sufficient legislative authority. The chairman of the board' was a man of boundlesa energy and enthusiasm and great ability. He hoped that the Government would be able to 'make real use of the powers to prevent unfair competition; •Mr. X. G. Smith. (Tarnnaki) said that lie would support the Bill, but lie was not verv sanguine as to the results of its unless the Government kept chise control of the board. One of the faults about the present board was that m fixing prices it had taken too much expert advice from interested parties. He gave instances which seemed to show that the board had been fouled by some of its advisers. .He said that someof the present lack of coal was due to the control of coal by the Coal Board. The Government had not been fortunate in the policy of- setting up boards. Dr. Thaeker (Christclmrch East) said •that the people'in this country were absolutely sick of boards and' Royal Commission's.* which were used as balloons to qee how political winds blew. He said also that members of these boards were scouts for the ■ Government for party purposes. There had been preference in the purchase of meat for freezing, preference in the allocation of space in the steamers, and preference in the apportionment of nif-nt among distributors at Home. The man "farming the farmer" had mpde ."'I the tn<">ev. not the fnvni»r.

Mr. IT, Holland (Grey) said that the Bill would never stop profiteering, but would limit it. merely. It was merely a patch-work attempt, and it would be a source of great profit to lawyers. Period of Appointments . On clause 5, Mr. M. Seiitple (Wellington South) moved that the period of appointment, of members of tho board .should be three years instead of fire. The .Prime-Minister said the Bill made •provision for the removal of members of ,the board in case of inefficiency ur misconduct. . . . Sir John Filur.ay (Hawke's Bay) asked for.tho retention of tho longer term. The board sh'ouM be as independent of political control as. possible. Strong independent administration of the Act was desirable. The amendment would mean that members of the board would have an eyo'on the Government. The best men ■would not. leavo their own businesses for a short-term appointment. Dr. A. K. Newman (Wellington East) said that insecurity of tenure would bo fatal to independence in such an office. Ta-cii good men might liot ploase the Government of tho'day. : ■ Mr. ■■Seintftj: Tho great bulk'of tho-wage-carnerehavo not forly-eight'hours' tenure. : -.•'-,

: Dr. Newman: T (hiiik dial, is an outrage. No man should have such a tenure. Hut. you won't help tho wage-earner by. culling down the term nf theso men; The'amendment, after iliscussion, was rejected liv : 52 votes to 7. ■" Mr. : TT. Holland (Grey) moved n further amendment' providing that; membejs ;>f the board should not be engaged in; any industry that came within tho jurisdiction of the'board. The amendment was rejected on the voice?. Mr. P. Eraser (Wellington Central) moved an amendment, intended to prevent iiiflntio-*- of pricesduring, the transfer of goods from one whnlcsalo house to niioi'lmr wholesale house. ' Mr. Mns.-ay Paid the House would make it an offence for one wholesale house to sell to another at any profit at alii. Exorbitnnt profit wua covered by (he Bill alrr-adv. •Mr. ,T. M'C'omhs (LvtMtnn) said the Bill would not prevent wholesnlo houses raising prices enormously by a series of .enles fn- their niiitn.nl advantage. ■Mr. Massey said the Bi'l d'vilt with eoml:inations for the increase- of prices. Tho amendment was rejected on the voices. A new sub-clause, submitted ' by the Prime Minister, provided that no prosecution should he instituted except with the consent of the Board of Trade. -The clause was agreed to. The B : ll was reported with amendments at 11.15 p.m. A few members spoke briefly on the third reading. • Sir Joseoh AVard expressed his great rrgrft that owing to an unfortunate accident- Mr. Mac Donald. under whose djroction the Bill was prepared, was unable to be-present. The Bill was read a third timo aid passed. The. House roso at 11.35 P.m.