THE PEACE TREATY

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 290, 3 September 1919, Page 8

THE PEACE TREATY

RATIFICATION BY '. PARLIAMENT

\ MR. MASSEY EXPLAINS ITS PROPOSALS ■ SAMOA AND NAURU In the Ho.use of Representatives yesterday afternoon the Prime Minister (tho Eight Hon. W. F. Massey) moved tho following motion: That tho House of Representatives of New Zealand, in Parliament assembled, resolves that this Houso assents to the ratification by His- Majosty the King of the Treaty of Peaco J witn Germany as approval by His j Majesty's plenipotentiaries at the recent Peace Conference. Mr. Massey said that he regretted exi ceedingly that it was not possible to supI ply members of the House with copies of tho Treaty. The Imperial authorities, had represented that the ratification of tho Treaty was a matter of urgency. He believed that at the present time ho and the Leader of the Opposition possessed I the only two official copies of the Treaty in New Zealand. A copy had been published in the London "Times," and' members had access to the file o'f that newspaper. Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt) asked if tho debate on the motion could be continued ! beyond the tea adjournment, i Mr. Massey replied that he did not object to the debnto continuing in tho Mr. H." Holland ferey) suggested that I members should be allowed an hour each for the discussion of the motion, instead of the half-hour permitted by the Standing Orders. He. eaid that members I who had studied the Peaco Treaty, whatI ever their opinions regarding its ratifi- ! cation, would realise that it could not i be adequately disoussed in half an hour. ! The Speaker sad there would bo other I opportunities of discussing tho matter. The' Prime Minister.- speakinjr to tho motion, said that the signng of the Peace Treaty undoubtedly had been one of the great events in tho history of the world. I The Dominions had been represented at the Peace Conference, and so had ceased to bo dependencies of tho Empire, and had become partners, with all the duties, privileges and responsibilities of partnerI ship. It would be easy to criticise the iTrenty adversely. There were points in jit that did not please him; but memwould realise, .he believed, that !there could be no more difficult task I placed before any body of men ! than the preparation of -a Poaco Treaty affecting the etatus_ and duties of great nations and involving vast and possibly conflicting', interests. Very manv questions had come before the con- | ference, and the delegates had not been in agreement upon them all. There had teen differences of opinion as to whether Germany .should be allowed to retain the status of a great nation, whether she should be allowed a.mercantile marino and colonies "and certain territories. There had been no difference of opinion as to her relation of! Tier navy, I but delegates had differed regarding her right to have- on army awl the strength of that army. ■ Germany, under the complotwl Treaty, was being called upon to carry a very heavy burden. There had been difference of 'opinion as to whether the burden was heavy enough or whether it was too heavy. Personally he did not think Germany had/been burdoned too heavily, taking into consideration the crimes, of which Germany had been guilty. She had been given an opportunity -to re-establish herself as one of I the most important nations of tho world. I He believed the Germans would., take adi vantage of that opportunity. He saw in--1 dications that the Germane wero working ! in that direction already. He would like ! to sec Germany in tho leading a I decent national life, but there were few j sigiis of regeneration about the country yet. Mr. Massey- proceeded to refer to the special disabilities that lmd been imposed uipan Franco and Belgium by the action of the Germans in destroying dcliWately as much'.of French and Belgian industry as they could reach. The Germaiis had set themselves to wreck the in- ! dtistries of tho ouoiipied provinces, arid ' they had succeeded so well that it would be impossible for France and Belgium to compete with Germany in certain lines for years to come. This wa9 a fact to 'be remembered in the examination of tho Peace Treaty. If the present unrest in Allied countries "continued the Germans would have a very good chance of captuiing trade that lmd belonged formerly to Britain, France, and America. The Geri mane wero going to fight for trade, and they were a very clever people in indwatrial matters. In some departments of industry Germany excelled Britain, notably in the making of aniline dyes, upon which the ! groat oloth-niakins industries of Britain depended. Fortunately now dyes were being very successfully made in Britain. So also Germany produced nitrates and j other munition requisites from atmusI phedc nitrogen, by processes not known in other countries. / ■. J An Unwieldy Procedure. ' The Peace Conference was still going on, and would go on for some time. Long I before- he had left members present had I beon "heartily sick" of the Conference, ! and were anxious to bring it to an end. : One meeting of tbe full Conference show.- ■ ed that it. would not be ' possible to ! transact business in such a full meeting. First of all there were language difficulties among the seventy delegates present from all Allied countries. Ho believed that every opinion expressed, every word said nt the plenary conference, was sent to Berlin as speedily as possible. So it was decided, to split up the work, aaid allocate special tasks to commissions. These commissions worked very much after the manner of Piwljiunentary committees, and theso commissions reported to the Council of the GreAt Powers. It had been intended that tho Council should be of ten,members, tvroiironi enc;i of the five Great Powers—Britain, America, France, Italy and Japan. But tho .number, was reduced to five, and for a time after the dispute about Eiume, ami Italy's withdrawal, the nujnber was reduced to four. Every motion submitted to the Plenary Conference was agreed to at once. . ' The German "Go-Slow" Policy. Mistakes had been made, of course. The- initial mistake had been that the Allies did not «t the signing of the armistice stipulate that terms of peace should be. dictated on German territory. The Germans had adopted a. "go-slow" policy—a policy .made in Germany, The Germans discovered that the longer tho signing of tho Peace Treaty was delayed the better tilings would be for them. A dreadful pluguo of Bolshevism threatened to overspread the world, and the Germans sftw.timt tho longer tlie signing was held back the more damage would be wrought by Bolshevism. Net tho End of War. • He could not beliovo that wo had by this Treaty seen the last of war. Mr, P.'Fraser: Wasn't it a war to end war?\ Mr. Mossey eaid that while the Peacfi Conference wns sitting there wero liil little wars going on in different parts of the world. Thore were hundreds of millions of people in tho world who understood no argument but that of force Admiral Jellicoe' had said 6ome tliinw recently which this country should tako to hoai't. Countries woro building liicger ehipe of war than the world had previously seen, and they were beiiitr built in view of possible war. While this was going on wo should see that our Fleet iras not interfered with. No one could deny that the League 01 . Nations had been formed for splendid ideals. If tliosi' idenls could ba achieved by the covoiinnt then the reheme would ho tho greatest ever launched in thu history /of the world. None of tho frnmers of tho Longue bnlievcd flint il would end war. All that was claimed for it was that it would make wars less frequent. Behind the Lenguo of rations covenant there must bo Hie sanction of force—the force of armies and navies. How this force was to be nnplied was a matter for experts. Tho war could not have been won without the British Navy, In soying this ho,

was not unmindful of the great tasks faithfully .done by tho land and eea forces of the Allies, and especially of the great efforts of heroic Franco. While this was so, while our freedom, our exi iistenco ns a nation depended on tho Navy, wo must maintain it at adequate strength. The Leaguo of Nations might need amendment, but he hop;d it would do much. Punishment. Somo people believed thai Germany should bo allowed to escape punishment. If there were any possibility of a regeneration of Germany he would be prepared to say to Germany "Go and sin no more." But ho was suro that wo were not done with Germany, and punishment must bo imposed as a deterrent. Ho spoko of the Crinie3 Commission, of which ho had been a member, and chairman. The record of crimes revealed bad been published, and he need not traverse it. First of all a difficulty arose about the punishment or oven accountability for. crime, of heads of States--. Ho had been surprised to find that representti; tires of civilised States on the Commie- | eion held that heads of State should not j b& held accountable for offences falling i outside of tho scope of Law., To meet this difficulty tho Commission rocommouded that tin international tribunal Should be sot up for the trial of such arch-oriminnls as the Ka.ise.-\ Tho objection to this course was that the trial miglit lur.vo gone on for ten years or more, and then it was proposed that the head of a fifcate ehould bo eubjeot to trial as a criminal. But this proposal was strongly opposed, and tlie end of it was that the Kaiser was to escape accountability as a criminal. He was being Wed as an offender against the moral law of nations. ' If found guilty the Kaiser could not be executed or imprisoned, so the great jurists said, but lie might be interned. Hβ (Mr. Massey) thought it was very wrong that tho Kaiser should escape punishment for lids crimes. Reparation. * There had been a great dr-al of difficulty about the question of ■ reparation, or—as it had at first been indiemnitiea. ' A Financial Commission was set up to discover or assess how inuoh Germany could pay. All wanted Germany to pay as much as possible, but the'members could Hot agree, and the Commission had to be abandoned. Then the Permanent Commission was sot up to deal with this series of questions. He could not tell how much we would receivo from' the' moneys to be paid by Germany. Ho believed we ehould receive something. . If asked for an opinion he would say that we might get ten millions at least, perhaps twelve millions, spread over thirty years. This might be sufficient to pay alwut half of our total pension charges. Mr. Massey wont on to sketoh very broadly the work of the . Labour Convention, and the aims which ihad led to the setting up of tho Convention. - Gallipoli Cemeteries. The Turkish Treaty had r.ot yet been completed, and he considered- .that New Zealand was interested in the peace to be made with Turkey. At the Imperial Conference following the Gcllipoli campaign ho had moved that the part of Gallipoli where there wore graves of New Zealand soldiers should be reserved under 6ome form of British or international control. This proposal was carried then, and it was to-be incorporated in the Treaty, Possibly it might be str&ck out, but the draft terms would include Cbis provision. / Samoa, He wont on next lospca'J of Samoa. At first, , he said, it was thought by him, and no doubt b,v others, that all territories in British occupation would be annexed. At one time during the Con-, feronco there lied been some little doubi as to whether Samoa ehould romnin British, and about this he had been much concerned. It was important that Samoa should bo held bv Britain, for it was the opinion of military; 'and naval experts that the two most important strategical points in the Pacifio were Eabaul and Samoa. , He believed that "\ew Zealand should have taken Samoa ?onjr ngo. as had been proposed by several New Zealand statesmen uf other years. For many years , tho revenue had been higher than expenditure in Samea, and he thought tho balance would still be on the right side. Improvements would be necessary, especially to the harbour at Apia, but the cost of these would be a charge upon Samoa. The mandate had not yet been issued ' for New Zealand. When ho appeared before the Counoil of Ton as . rupresentative' of New Zealand regarding tho mandate for Samoa, he had made the point that tho natives of Samoa were, of the same race as tho natives of New Zealand, and this hod been considered one of the strongest/reasons for giving Samoa to New Zealand. In reply .to n question Mr. Massey Eaid that one of the conditions of the mandate was that the island should not he fortified. ■ : Mr. Wilford: What about the Japanese islands-the Marshall Group? . -Mr. Massey: Well, the Jups .have got those, . , Mr. Wilford: They have made a Gibraltar there already. Mr. Massey: I am afraid that is so, and I am afraid there will bo trouble : about it. Mr. Massey said that if there ehould be a deficit [n tho administration of Samoa New Zealand would have to bear the cost meantime, but thij would lend to a readjustment of the finances of the j mandate at once. The inundate would bo perpetual, and, not bei-ig a lawyer, ho could not see the difference between the mandate conditions and complete annexation. Nauru. Mr, Massey then procet-ded to talk about Nauru Island, the phosphatic deposits there, and the conditions under which those phosphates would bo- obtainable in New Zealand. He fold of how Mr. Hughes had claimed the mandate for Nauru on behalf of Australia. This 1« had opposed, find in the end Britain took the mandate. Tl-o schemo for Hw acquisition of the asset? of tl)s phoscompany he explained.at length. He said that , the compulsory Jiurchase would liave.to be nrrnnral by the mandatory Powers-Britain. Thr price of purchase was still unfixed. A Teprosontativcof the companr hiul thrpi millions as the vnlun of fan company's ns'sfs. but on this he would not (&»■• opinion. New Zealand had full power to withdraw from the arrangement if Po.rliam-W: ilinni-lit «(-. The Purchase Agreement. Mr. Massev coflduded hip speech after thn dinner adjournment, with iurthnr references to Nauru. . Ho mndo use of several. Quotations with intent/.o show ilio enormous value of tho phosphate deposits on Nauru. ■ He had had uri iiicer-, view with the managing director of the'' company in London, ami that gentleman, fluid that if tho company's rights were not hntrirht out the company would supply phosphates at the rule of Cd. per unit; f.o.b. Nauru. Assuming that tho rock contained Si per con; , , phosphate, which '.r;w the ratio claims! by rim comply, tlin cost, would then bo Xi 2s. per ton. Mr. ilaesey gavo to l.he Hoiun an outline of tjie agreement entered into by tho representatives of Britain, Australia, and New Zenlaud with regard to the acouisition of iho iissels of the Phosphate' Company. The /alue of the company's assets war! said by the company to be three millions. That would be subject to revision by valuers if any purchnso was 'tn bo made. . It was not correct to sav that New Zealand would 'nave to rav JCSDfI.IKM). Thiit figure was not official. No estimate or calculation could vet bo mndo, but New Zealand would have to nav Iβ per cent, of the <:ost for thn riirlit to 1G per cent, of '.he phosphates. Uo know in fact that in addition to tho share of 1G per cent, we should bo iible to get much of the -12 per cent, allowed '.o Britain, for Britain would not take by any menus \'i \t«.t cent, of the <iulmil:. Mr. Massev, in conclusion-, raid he had realised us he never did before tiie inilmrlaiiue of su developing d<. 1 neural re-snurcr-.i <u New Zivilaud nnu oi ilic w!ic> Kii!iiin>. Tlu , States mid (P'lK'nd'.'tiiV.s of (he- Kiiuiir'c could produce -'verytluu;,' veriuirod bv their people, 'i'.rnvisinn for nntiiiunl (IplViioc r(Mr.;iiiirul.a duty. 11<difl nnl Uiinlc an.vthinsj in th(> nature of n sraiidiii'.' armv was noce. , siiry for Xpw Ze:iln.nd. IStil. it was neci'i-.-ary '.o maintain ndemiate dcl'enco fornix, siiid'it wns thn diitv of Now Zenlniulcrs. us a maritime nnonlc. to do their full --hare in Ihe mnintcuanci! of lite British Navy. Sir Joseph Ward. , Sir Joseph Ward. Lcndor of tho Opposition, sud tho matters tbafc had been

brought forward. wore of great importance. Tho delegates to the Peace Conferenco had faced a tremendous . task— or rather the chief statesmen had done so, becauso the raal decisions of the Conference had been made by half a dozen men. Mr. Massey had done his best/ as other Dominion statesmen had done, but the power hod rested in the hands of the few representative men of tho great Powers. Tho Treaty was a wonderful document. It' represented in fact the work of the world.6 most capable lawyers and of experts 'in.many other branches. Tho 'House ought to endoreo the Treaty without hesitation. He believed that tho greatest work done at tm> Peaco Conference had been the creation of the League of Nations, which had power to appoint on "executivo council. This council would be a body of tremen-, dous power. The League Covenant provided for the limitation of armaments. That was a tremendous advance. Hβ had no doubt that Germany would enter tho League within two years. Euesia should also be included, and then tho great i Powers of the world" would be linked in ! an agreement that would bind all to a j oertaiu oouree of action in tl\o event of one trying to break iiway. The private manufacture of arms and munitions was to bo placed under control. The con. trading Powers woro to exchange full and frank information regarding -their armaments. ' Hβ felt that the British Empire oould never allow the League or any other' authority to diotate the strength of the British Navy. The Anio. rican. Government bod esoluded the Monroe Doctrine from League control, and he had not hesitated to say in London and in Paris that tho strength of tho British Navy must be decided by the Empiro. Tμ League Covenant provided that no country should go to war until its claims or grievances had been investigated publicly and the people had been given a chance to learn the facts. Sir Joseph Ward emphasised the importance to Franco of the neutralisation of the left bank of the Rhine and tho restoration of Alsace. Tho changes that had been made in the map of Europe were in the interests of justice to oppressed nationalities, and wore an additional argument for the ready ratification of the Peace Treaty. Judgment Withheld, With regard to Samoa, he had not yet seen the full terms of tlie mandate and did not know what they were. Mr. Masey: They are not here yet. Sir Joseph Ward eaid tho right thing was to confirm the Treaty as it stood. He could see tremendous difficulties ahead ot New Zealand about the Samoau mandate, and he would withhold hie judgment until future years. He believed it would have been better to have left the Samoan mandate with the British Empire, because ho felt that the handling of a coloured race woe going to be a big and difficult problem for New Zealand. He did not recard tlie Maoris as a coloured race at nil. The ruling: of Samoa would not be easv. and he considered that British statesmen, with their wide experience- could have managed Samoa nioro conveniently thwi New Zealand could. The Labour charter, which was a part of tho Treaty, had a weak point. It was not endorsed by America or .by somo other countries, and the chajter could not aohieve much until it was a'doDted bv the wholo world. lurn ln f to'financial matters, Sir Joseph Ward said that the safe course would be to exnect no money from Germany. Xbe preferential claims of France and Belirium were eo great that New .Zealand could not hope to get anything for.the nest twelve or fifteen years, and it was imuossiblo to .say definitely that Germany would be making payments after that nnrind. The Germans were being re'auired to replace all the sunken British shins, and that in iteelf was an enormous task. An important point was that tho Peace Treaty had secret treaties, which ™» » senerallv to the whole world. Sir Jfljeph Ward ureed the importance of Imperial co-oneration and development. • A Labour Critic, ' Mr. H. Holland (Grey) said he wished to speak on the Peace Troa-ty as chairman of the Labour Party, and to show why the Labour Party did not agree with i those who thought that to ratifv the .Treaty. He P«>wetea against Parliament being asked to ratUT a Treaty which membera had not Seen. He thought Samoa x ought to have been ruled by tho League of .Nations. Mr, Holland announced ffiat ho VW&* bilk about "the basic oausea of warfare. He did not acfluit the German miWwisb from blame, but the basic « ° f wax W ere*economic, due to the. fact that the workers did not set the whole fruvbrof their service. Tho result was that: Wg surpluses were built up m.n\xm mwlcell. In the search for markets terntorial acquisitions wero made by States. Secret' diplomacy woe a nocessary concomitant of the ImpeTOlieticiivim the effort of nations to expand; their territories. So it was thut no treatywould ver hold any nation from a desire for commercial advantage. Every treaty in history (bad been broken so soon a one Power was ready to do it. He did not pS however, that breaches of treaties Cother peoples excused tfco tearing; up of the "scrap of paper" by G*™™h He found fault with the Low»« Nations Covenant on account of the constitution of &o Counoi of the League Under this constitution the five great war Allies would always hold supreme contool If Germany came in later, as ehj ! undoubtedly would one day, blw .would come in on tho same level as Siani The Treaty, be declared, « «"*»■»&.* traders' treaty in spite of the fact that fadN£ often bW said thaF never aeain would wo trade with Germany. Instead of boycotting Germany the Alies were wins to compel her to trade with S, on their conditions He spoke on the Shantung question, declaring that bv riving'over tho Chinofo to tie Japanew tho Allies were perpetrating a gret? injustice. Ho thought it wae an eUllont thing that conscriphon was to b& abolished in Germany, and an excellent thing that the German Weet shmild m out of existence, but it would be a -Setter thing if in addition miUtarpi "hould be abolished in other country, an-l if all fleets were to ceaee to exist. He did not agree that pay tho huge indemnities demanded But aspuming that Germany could pay them, no onomist would stand for an arrangement which must be more disastrous to the receiver than to the payer. would have to pay in goods : ftnd German industries would be running at high I pressure while industries in the cpuaitn receiving the j-oods would be stagnant. T! e Pefce Treaty, he declared, brought no peace. A black cloud of war hung ! over China, there was eimmermg insairectlon in Egypt and India, Ireland w h»ld 'by tho sword, and in Southern Europe countries there were red with revolution. Another Labour View, Mr. P. Fraser (Wellington Central) nr"u«l that Europe had been divided into two armed camps before Ihe war, by tie strnHo f° r markets, secret treaties ana understandings, the development of capitalism, and the struggle for tho undeveloped regions of the world. No Parliament had been able to control foreign policy. Tho peoples had been told that " the Gieat War would ond war. But the statesmen of the Empire had abandoned that attitude. They had made seoret treaties even during the progress of the war, and had assigned territories without regard to tho wishes of the peoples concerned. Mr. Frnsor proceeded to suggest that Britain and her allies had been guilty of (serious offences, and to quoto with'approval writings in favour of concessions to Germany. He objected to tho temporary control of tho Soar Valley bv France, imd tho "injustice" done to G'ormans and Austrians by various provisions of the Peftco Treaty. The Treaty had not made war impossible. J-hore wns nothing bei'oro the nations but war upon war, until Labour ruled. Approval of Nauru Scheme. Jlf. 3i. Newman (Kangitikt-i) eaid (he lust two speeches had Ijmii so contrary In tho feeing °i the I'ooulry that he was imiii'lletl l<i «iv ii few words. The vast majority «f the yi'L-pio were cntirelv shiisScd with (lie wurk that had been' done by Air. Massey and Sir Joseph Ward at ihe I'ciiei! Conference. He diet not believe that ever again would the U<-iLißh Empire permit Sniiioa lo pas 3 into the hands of an enemy. It would have been better to have hiul Samoa under the control of Hie Imperial Government, ami he hoped that the mandate might become eventually an .Imperial mandate. The creation of the Le«i"uc. of Nations was a tremendous step forward. The hopes of the civilised world wore centred oil that League. The

acquisition of a share in the phosphate deposits of Nauru Island was a matter of great importance to New Zealand. The farmers had learned the value of phosphates, but the' price had risen year by year. He hoped to hear Boon what the price of the Nauru Island phosphates would be in the Dominion. Mr. Newman said he hoped Mr. Massey was right, and not Sir Joseph Ward, in regard to the prospects of reparation from tferiunnr. The Germans could not pay the cost of tho wur, but they should be made to pay all they could pay. It would be just and reasonable to ask Germany to replace the' ships sunk by Germany in this war. The brave men who had eoue down in those ships could not be replaced. The services of the mercantile marine had been beyond praise. Hβ considered that the Peace Conference had been one of the greatest events in history. New Zealand had been ably represented at that Couferenoa bv> Mr. Massey and Sir Joseph Ward, and these gentlemen had earnod the thanks of the New Zealand Parliament and the New Zealand people. He hoped that the pence would bo lasting, and tnnt the world after its years of trial would eniov a period of happiness.

Men "Without a Country." Mr. T. M. Wilford , (Hutt) took Mr. Holland and.Mr. I'rnser gently to task for their failure to say one word in favour of the Treaty or of the League of Nations. If in 1914 the Leaguo of Nations had been in existence the war would havo been impossible. (Heafi hear.) Eventually, the League . would almost wholly abolish intrigue which miizht lead to world war. Hβ characterised as "tripo" the statement that the Socialists of the world could prevent war. The German Socialists had all voted for the vw erudite, and for this he admired them. Thev had a eauntry. Hβ understood the Socialists wer-3 opposing him at the elections. He would 6ay now what he would eav to his constituents—that he did not want, the votes of men without a oountrv. He would think it a shame if lie. a yobhk New Zealander, proud of his oountry. were retnrued to the House , bv thn votes of such men. Sβ went on to discuss eome of the big issues dealt with in.the Treaty. The motion was carried on the votoes, without dissent, at 11.15 p.m. RATIFICATIONIioTiON IN COUNCIL CAUSES OP DELAY. In the Legislative Council, Sir Francis Bell moved: "That the Council assents to the ratilicattoi; by His Majesty of tho Treaty of peace with Germany as approved % the plenipotentiaries in the reoent Peace Conference. , " Sir Francis Bell explained that it was BOt the fault of the Imperial Government, but of the df»lay la transmission of the -mails, that the 'full text of the Treaty was not before the Council. The motion ho had moved was' not really necessary at all. Ordinarily, the ratification of His Majesty was all that wp required. But on this occasion tho Treaty stipulated that it should be rail. lied by a certain number of the Parliainente of the Powers that had executed It. The Imperial Government had aeked the Dominion: Parliaments to net with it in the mattea-; and it had asked that what the New Zealand Pai'Hament was going to do it should da quickly, Pβ invited the Council to pass the resolution in conjunction with the House of Representatives, and. so to accept and assume what was offered to it for the flret timo —"almost an equal part with' the Imperial Government in the Imperial affairs of the Empire-." Tho Hon. Sir William ■Hall-Jonas said ho was sure that New Zealand was going to etand loyally by the Empire and bj those who had acted for it at tile Paris Conference. T " o3e wll<> i that the conditions imposed on Germany were too severe should remember that at tho time of the armistice there were no foreign armies on German soil, an<l that Germany had escaped the horrors of such an ocoupation as Belgium had suffered. The Germans could secure a meditation of the Treaty by showing that fhoir old militaristic spirit was dead, but to-day there were indications that the Empire, must be as much as ever on its guard against Germany. The resolution waa carried.