COAL MINES DISPUTE

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 266, 6 August 1919, Page 8

COAL MINES DISPUTE

CONFERENCE ADJOURNS AGAIN DETAILS IN COST OF COAL STATE MINE SUPPORTS OWNERS' FIGURES The conference between the Coal Miners' Federation and the Coal Mine Own; el's' Association was continued yesterday morning. Figures showing in detail items in the cost of coal ironi the faco in tho mine to the consumei were produced, as affecting the State mine, and us affecting a group of representative mines belonging'to private owners. These figures supported the contention advanced by the owners at the beginning of the conferenco • that the demands of the fed•Wition were impossible because of the increases that must follow in the cost of uwl. The coal miners' representatives asked for an adjournment until the afternooD to consider these figures, but Inter iisritul tor more timu, and the conference i≤ is meet this morning. Sir George Clifford presided.

Items in Cost. Mr. T. O. Bishop, Acting-Under-Secre-tary of Mines, made a statement. He said that a reniurk had been made by a delegate from the federation that the miners received some 3s. a ton for cut; tint the coal, rud tho consumer paid £& a ton for it. It was necessary to show in soine detail the cost of a ton of ooal from the face in the mine to the foal bin of the consumer. In addition to the miner the trucker had to bo paid for taiing the coal away from the face, and also load men, deputies, haulage men, and all tho rest of the mine staff }iad to be paid. The State mine had to pay tho wages of th-j railway men ana to pay for tlie upkeep of the railway to tak« the coal to the wharf, for although the railway was run by a separate Department it was the existence of the mine that made the railway necessary, and it .was used almost entirely for the transport of coal from the mine. At Greymouth wharfage charges had to be paid, tho wauee of the waterside workers ut Groymouth. the eea freight to Wellington, wharfage in Wellington, the wages of the waterside workers in Wellington, the cartage of the coal to the depot, and tho post of delivery to the householder. Although some of these charges might ba naid in the form of railway freight or marine freight, by far the greater pronortion of the. cost'of coal from the mine to the consumer was made up of wages. The actual cost of "n ton of coal from the ehip's side at Greymouth to the consumer was mado up as follow:— - s. d. Total cost per ton, f.o.b 16 11.91 Marino freight 9 7.00 Wharfage , 1 0 fiarlaec in 2 0 Trimming J 9 Labour, yard and delivery 5 0 Cartage to customers 7 .0 Kent and rates 0 7.71 Salaries 0 9.20 Repairs, etc 0 4.52 Sacks 0 7.39 Interest, depreciation, general expenses, postages, printing, and stationary, freight, etc. ... 0 9.68 Total .£2 5 6.« Actual Mining C,osts. Following was the direct labour cost at the mine:— ' .j s. d. Present cost of production (mean of both mines) 9 11.87 A. Increased cost per ton duo to increased rates of wages demanded • ;•• ° '• 1,1 B. Increased cost per ton due to decreased working time— 7-hour day 10-day fortnight... 3 U G-hour day 10-day fortnight... 5 i C. Increased cost per ton due to payment for fortnight's holiday each year ° 3 C.I Increased cost per ton due to free explosive. , :, etc. 0 1-5° 2. Overhead CostPresent overhead charges ••• 3 3,95 A. Increase per ton due (o reduced output owing to shorter working hours ° H

Total increase 7-hour day ••• 8 3.58 Total increase β-hour day ... 10 10.58 In addition to this increase, which Is a simple matter of arithmetic and beyond any dispute, it is, I think, necessary to make some calculation on account of the decreased output which would result from the nbolition of the contract system. The following; figures are based oh the assumption that this decrease in output would be 30 per cent:— s. n. Increased cost per ton at the mine 2 10.35 Increased cost per tun on overhead charges L_ i 2.78 Grand total- ,„ „„ 7-hour day 12 C.30 G-hour day. 1.36 The gross output from the mines last vein , was 214,919 tons, the total saleable output upon which all tip, cost figures are 'based was 205.358 tons, therefore tlie total extra cost of producing an output equal to that of last year, if the federation demands are exceeded, would have been .£155,205.

Reduction of Output. Assuming that the miner will produce an mucli coal per hour under the wages system as he does under the contract system the decrease in output compared with last year due to shorter working time would be 46,235 tons for a 7-hour day or 75 213 tons for a 6-hour day. and if the assumption that the output would bo further reduced by the abolition of the contract system is correct tho additional decrease would bt 47,730 tons for a v.-hour day and 39,052 tons for n 0-hour day. leo'vni",a total output from tho mines of UU73 lons for a 7-hour day and 91,123 tons for a G-hour-day. Figures From Private Mines. Mr. Alison then called on Mr. .Pryor to present figures on behalf of tho coal mine owners. ■ . Mr. Pryor f-aid that as a result ot the discussion that had taken place and the objections that had ken raised to the report of tho Board of Trade, it had been decided that tho mine managers in Wellington should go into the mater and estimate in detail the items in the ii'creased cost of production that must follow the granting of the demands ot tho miners. Nine mine managers Jim! been present, representing tho tollowin? mines:—Taupiri, Pukemiro, \Vaipa, -ftlillortoni, Domiiston, Wclitport-btoekton. Blackball, and Mount Torlase, so Hint it would appear that they had dealt with representative mines. The managers had with them their cost sheets, and they struck rn average of all the mines they represented. The average liad been a weighted average, taking -into account always the amount of coal coming from each mine. . . They hocl made this comparison qt present cost of production with estimated cost under the Miners' federation demands, showing estimated increase of demands were granted, with tho abolition of contracts, and on tlio basis ot a 7-hour day.

Estimates Based on Present Average Dominion Bates. Estimnte<l cost / of federPresent ation cost, demands Per ton. I'er ton. Class of work. s. <1. s. (I. Hewm-j » 81 4 0 Truckin* 1 3} '•* * Shiftmen 0 « « W} Deputies, sliolfirers. Ole 0 ■!.{ 0 81, Tlaulngo 0 HJ 1 3J Tippin.T. Fcri'oninjf, wciKhing, .vnrdiiien, Inadiny and lowerini', hlucksniillis, mechanics, carpijiilers, stnk- ~ prs, engine- drivers, liih rcpiiii'Pi's, siirfnco lalxiiirp; , ?, pliitolayers, rop? splioprs, lumpmen, timbermen, storemen 1 83 ,3 05 Mine management and clerical 0 3J 0 GJ 8 6 13 OS

Estra cost of 7 hrs. day 2 51 Extra cost of fortnight's holiday on full IWy... 0 73 Extra cost of free coal, light, (cols, etc 0-2 Total labour cost ........ 8 6 16 10} Deduct present labour cost 8 G Increase in labour cost 8 dj Overhead charges: Increased cost per ton due to reduced output 7 4 Total increased cost ... 15 8J Total increased cost of 8-hour, day would be 18 SJ Mr. Fryor explained that no account had been (aken of the extra cost of employing extra men, and doing extra development work to accommodate the extra men. to make up for the reduced output and bring it up, if possible, to the present output. The Production Problem. Air. ilison invited Mr. W. A. Flavell, manager of tho Westport Coal Company, tn read a statement bearing on the question of what,reduction there would be in the output if the miners' demands were planted. ■ ~'.,, Air. Flavell said that he thought that 1 the fluestion he had to deal with was perhaps ono that interested the public more at the present moment than did tho question of increased cost. The question was how to get coal, no matter dint the cost. His figures were ae artdor: — , . The output of,the New Zealand mines Inst rear was 2,068,41!) tons, or 8775 tons for 'Sβ day. Tho number of employees in niines was 3991, of which 1350 are colliers. The output averages 6.43 tons per man. . ,_ Tons. Therefore if ten shifts per fortnight were granted, we lose 26 day,-?' work at 8775 tons per day 228,100 Granting 7-hour day, means shr. Wmin. actual work, instead of 6hr. 40min., or a reduction in output of over 15 per cent., or 310,261 The present iolidays aro 9 during the yeefr, but .22 are now asked for. If we assume 4of . these days fall on Sundays and / pay Saturday, nine extra holij days aro asked for, representing 9 x 5775 lons 78,975 Now we have to consider what further reduction will result if we agreed to abolish tho tonnage rate system for the pound per day asked for, irrespective of the'results. From all the data obtainable a'conservative estimate is 30 per cent., and on the 1917-18 output this would amount tb /■ ■■ ,620,522 A total reduction of nearly 60 per cent 1.237,908 If the demand for 0 hours bank to bank vera granted, or 4hr. •lOmin. actual work, a further 310,261 Then it is asked /that men in v wet places work five-hour shift, or three and a half hours' actual work. Then, as though you were afraid that Mine loophole might still be open whereby this limited output might bo improved, you stipulate that not more than one shift be worked in twenty-four hours.

Their Own Petard. "The unexpected statement made by the Mines Deportment," said Mr. Allison, "has completely altered the position, llie Department's figures are not based on the Boa.td of Trade's report, but are bo doubt compiled directly from tho books of the State coal mines. Now, sir, the federation stated that it was not impossible to confute the mine owners Sβ™** 3 ' It was quite simple, they said, I hey were prepared to take the figures of the State mines given in the report, and prove conclusively that the coal owners figures were 'wrong. That is the statement that was made. This morning we have the State mines' figures; they are clearly set out, and they confirm tho coal mine owners' estimate of the increase in cost of production and reduction in output. The figures presented by tho Mires Department so completely confirm tho estimate of the coal owners that surely the federation must now admit that the mine owners' contentions are correct. Upon the State mines' figures, which are quite outside the control or knowledge of the coal owners, Mr. Roberts must now be forced to admit that the miners' demands are not only unwarranted, 'but would prove disastrous to tho industries of tho country and to the welfare of the people, including those whom Mr. Roberts claims he represent?. On Saturday, Mr. Roberts said he would so into the figures for the mining cost of coal, and if it was found that the increase of Us. 6d. a ton would be the result of the granting of the demands of the workers, then the miners of New Zealand would not ask for them for five seconds. The miners wanted to have not a shortage of coal, but a surplus of coal for everybody in New Zealand, and ho wanted the public to understand that the miners of New Zealand couM not be held responsible for the shortage of coal in future if the coal owners refused to discuss these demands.

Mr. Roberts: I plead guilty. Six. Alison: Well, I'm i?lnd of that. I now call upon Mr. Roberts to carry out his promise. Mr. Koberts (ironically): Hear, hear, Mr. Alison: Whether Mr. Roberts does or does not carry out his promise, it must l>e perfectly clear to the public of New Zealand that the mine owners' statement,! and estimates of the overwhelming increase in the cost of coal and ot the disastrous reduction in output aro founded in fact. '

Counter-Proposals. "After the adjournment yesterday," Mr. Alison continued, "the coal mine owners met to again consider the position. It was found that owing to the failure of the federation to submit the promised 'return indicating the offects their demands would have on the industry, and ae there was no real criticism of the figures supplied by the employers, there was little or nothing to answer. The position is that the coal mine owners have submitted to the conference a statement showing what effect the-ex-tortionate, extreme, and unreasonable demands would have upon the. industry and upon the community as a. whole, which justifies them in declining lo discuss further the five principal claims in the demands. There has been nothing in the argument from the other side to cause employers to alter their decision, especially as opportunity was not taken by the federation to present any statement for tho guidance of the conference. "In response 'to the request that employers should submit counter-proposals it has been decided to request consideration of'the following:"1 That figures l;c submitted by both sides' to an independent Government nominee to decide on and iinive nt tho cost to the country of the federation proposals, and pending that decision, work to continue under the present ngiec"2 That after the cast of tho federation's proposals lias been definitely arrived a.t, a conference bo liald to consider a now agreement in tho li,rht of general labour conditions in New Zealand and tho increase or reduction in cost of living. "3 That tho offer of the ■ jovernmeut to tho minors in tho State mines io form a Board of Control, on which board employees are to be represented by one of heir number, will bo hilly considered by : ho mine owners and dhect/ors oi coal miniii" companies to ascertain whether tho adoption of soiuo similar .scheme is capablo of adaptation to their mines, the results of such deliberations to bo reported to the next conference. , "4 That every effort be made to olilain such legislation as will assist employees in securing homes by loans from Oovernment or otherwise on easy terms, eucu lIS provided for under the Advances to Settlers Act. Besults to be reported to conference. i " r i That the whole question of superannuation lie fully entered into. Besulv to be reported to conference. "]f Ihcso proposals are, lecepled by tho federation, it will be necessary to adjourn until after, the report lefwred to is received The conference ciui Inoii in' resume.!, and consideration given to I terms of a. new agreement, it, luwew , the employers' proposals are not adopted no further discussion can take p.'acc . until the live principal olmms are delinitelv withdrawn. It is tliernfore «igK e<ti«'d that tho federation sliou.d con- , Bidor the. proposals now iilaeod licfan; , them and arrive at a decision with cegarri , thereto. Tho responsibility is placed j upon the federation of stating wnether : they will agree to a cotireo of action , which will permit full inquiry into their

demands, and an independent report being made upon what sum , be then effects, or whether they will withdraw their, principal demands and th.es in either way give opportunity for the conference to proceed to a successful eonelusion." "Based on Assumption." Mr. Koberts: i have to say first of all that 1 thank Mr. Bishop for his figures tins morning, and 1 want to say that this is tho first attempt that has boon mado to givo u= figures that throw any light on the piwenl position at nil. As for the figures themselves, they i based on the assumption that there would be a .decrease of production u the demands of the ■miners were granted, and they have this predominating it. I'or instance, I will take onu;. item-haulage. It is stated that the decrease of the production of coal will increase the liauiai?o cost. Wo account is taken ot tlie i*ct that there are going to be more> men in the mines under the better conditions, oud that production will thereby be increased. I a.«o thank M^ 1 J?h his statement, although I disagree ut& his figures. On the other hand, I h« e to congratulate Mr. Alison on the "J iu which he brings up TOintorcemenb. He ought not to be the Honourable M • Alison, but General Ahson. First ot aU ho called upon the Government through the Minister of Mines to help him. on another occasion he invited the 1 ic»s to assist him; and then he advised the Board of Trade to give us a doing. Ana on every occasion he has succeeded m bringing up reinforcements.

Whose Responsibility? We made a statement the other day that the attitude of tho miners was that they wanted a surplus of coal tor tJio workers of New Zealand. Mr. Alison: I am glad to bear it. Mr. Koberts: "It is no use anyone on your side saying that the reeponsiMitj is on the miners. The responsibility is yours, and the position to-day is that you have a coal shortage, which you canhot put down to the present position ot the wages of tho miners. You have obtained control of the mineral wealth ot this country ns far as coal i? concerned, and you have failed to give the counfaj an adequate supply, You must take the responsibility for that. The conditionsi in the mines are such that men will not go there, and the only way m which we think a sufficient supply of cenl can be obtained for the people is to ] improve: the conditions of tho mine workors, and so to attract labour to the mines. I think that is a fact everybody here must admit. Ml the figures that have been presented aro based on an estimate of a decrease of thirty per cent, in production, -iou are basing this on assumption meray. And you have taken Inst year as a basis of calculation, without mention of tho ftict that last year was a big working year owing to the abnormal demand existing for coal. You should have romem'bered that in some of the mines in other years the average working weeklies only been three days and a halt. You aro taking the best year on which to base your figures. We know what these figures mean. They may be right or thcy'mny bo wrong. We cannot test them.' We have had nothing from you except bare statements of fact. I know this, that in the first statement mado tn us there appears to be an increase of nenrlv a hundred per cent, for everybody. The miriers are not asking fot a hundred per cent- increase. Yon are basing your calculations on a thirty per cent?" reduction all 'the way down, and we say that nil your figures in this matter are based on assumption. - On "Ownership." "You ray that we have to take tho responsibility. I want to say m reply that responsibility for the production ot coal for tho people of New Zealand is not ours. It is yours. It is ypur industry, you have run it7»nd you have to run it to supply the demand of the public. If you fail in this the public will give the answer. We don't own tho industry. There is not a, mine in New Zealand that you cannot order one of us out

of. Mr. "Roberts appealed to Mr. Weston as to whether this was not tho law. Mr. Weaton said that it was the law. but in hie-repiy.he insisted on saying a little more than this, "If a man is in your employ," he said, "you have to terminate his employment. There is no doubt about it that in these days oi blades unions you cannot terminate the employment of a man owing to the loyalty of his maws. 1. admire their loyally although sometimes I think it 15 misplaced. .But there is that loyalty, and it is impossible to terminate the engagement, of any man without losing /me or' two shifts of work, and it may bo havin? u slrika of -fceeks. _ That is so, and the sooner we realise it the belter. So that when you say that a working man is a slave, I reply that that michfc have been so thirty or forty years ago-I don't know-but it certainly is not so now. Jtr. Roberts: "As I said, the coal mine owj.ers control their property, and they have a right at law to order any other peieon off tlioir property, out of any of the mines.' For that reason- tho duty of supplying coal to the people of New Zen land devolves on you. If you can t supply coal we say w= can, but we want an opportunity of supplying it under reasonable working conditions. Certain demands have bemi put forward by tho fedoration and the more I examine them Ihe more I agiv.a with them as complyiii» with the general conditions of emnlovment of other workers of New Zeii'"The owners havestated that we must withdraw the five points, which means thai we must withdraw all the demands. There nan be no different conclusion about that. Tho meaning of that is that the miners' demands should be withdrawn en bloc. ' "A 9 far as the figures produced to-day are concerned they nro based on assumption. .Furthermore, there are several statements in the whole of this information which do not count at all in m nuinion from our point of view. What we do want to say, and what we hero repeat,. is that tho miners are prepared to do everything in their power to supply coal to the people of New Zealand. For their services, for that work, they ask for reasonable working conditions, unci reasonable humane living conditions. If is a reasonable request. All she figures in the world will not alter that modest demand, and all the figures in the world produced here will not attract men to the mines, and unless somethiiig ie done lo attract mon to the mines the coal supply cannot be guaranteed, for all the figures you produce'will not produce one skip of coal. "A Note of Warning." ' "Hut I liiay say that the statements made to-day ar« invaluable to me, showing us they do that the cost of height, and handling of coal is four or five times more than tho miner gets for cutting it. Then you blame the miners for (ho inoresiso in the cost of coal. In my opinion all the discussion of the past fow .lav:- has been worth while if only lo get these figures. They arc figures whicli some mine managers will be making hasto to deny in the course of a very lil'llo t.ime. We are as anxious as anybody to makb a settlement, but wo are met with statemonUi that unless this is done, unless that is done, there oannot be an agreement. Wo know what that means, and the people of New Zealand knows what it menus, and I suppose you men know what it means wheu you say you don't want to discuss at all tho miners' demands. And listori! I van!, to strike this noto of warning hero. The miners have put their demands down. Havo you discussed them? You hiivo refused" to discuss them. You h,ivo refused to discuss tho fivo main demands of the minora. You htive not given us j UlO courtesy of discussing them. I want tho public' to know' that. . That chows only too clearly that yon are not 100 anxious to go into the proposition at all. And then you raise this i)iiestiou hero about superannuation, about the Government providing us with Joiins 10 build houses. Now, goudomoii, we khoiv wry well that without your assistance wo cull approach Iho (jovcrnmpnt on our own and get these loans to workers. \ You arc not giving us anything. \\\< bi'licvo wo can get all that by approaching Hit' Government. As a mailer of fiiei; ymi arn somewhat Into in the tiny 111 giving attention to tlio housing question. 'J'licsn things are all that you havo oftVral us You havo refused to discik? the live nuiin demands of the miners.. You have not "iven (iicin consideration, or. you will not i»ive them consideration or discussion from the minors' point of view. Yon havft givon us figures based on assumption or estimation. And you say to tho workers: 'If you don't agree with thetso fijrurae,

and if you don't bring in a Government auditor to look over these figures or some other figures, then the responsibility is yours.' Now, responsibility is an easy thing to pnes across the table in talk, but actual responsibility is not such mi easy thing/ , to shift. Itesponsibility for the production of 'ioai must bo placed on tlio shoulders of the people who own the coa.l supply. We have i.ot froe access to the mines, and while wo have not free access to the mines ire cannot accept responsibility.

An Adjournment. "In conclusion,. Mr. Chairman, I want to say that there has been a decided healthy tone in this conference to-day. . . . 'Aβ , far as 1 am concerned in this matter I am prepared to leave it in Hie meantime. I would not ngroe to reply directly to you to the statement given by Mr. Alison. I can't reply off-hand. Personally I ain in favour of on adjournment until such time as we can go into these figures. That is all the reply I intend to give to the statements at preAf'ter consulting with his colleagues .for a moment, Mr. Roberts moved the adjournment of the conference until 3 o'clQc-k in the afternoon. The action was seconded by Colonel Holgate, and supported by Mr. Alison. Sir George Clifford seked about the counter-proposals, to which no reference had beon made. Mr. Roberts said that they would deal with the counter-proposals during the adjournment. .' . The adjournment was taken, but the federation asked for further time nt 3 o'clock, and the conference now stands adjourned until this morning.