THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 31, 31 October 1918, Page 6

THE HOUSE

, — i The House of -Kepresentativas met at 2 'The' n Christ's Colle ß e- Amendment Bill/ (Mr iBiW was introduced and read a '"'IIV'T M'Callum (Wairau) gave no- « 2 'to introduce the New Protection Bill. ' .

THE NEW CHAMBER. Mr J G. ANDEKSON (Mataura) askedthe Minister of Public Works if he would take steps to improve the acoustic nronerties of the new chamber. He eairt Sat t was impossible to hear many of he speakers. Something would have to be done to make menibors audible in tho H §m' WILLIAM FRASBR (Minister of Public Works) said members probabl) were aware that no. architect had ev r yet succeeded in being sure about -the acoustic properties of a binding ■ until it had been tested. The position appeared to be that some parts of the House were quite satisfactory, but other parts vere not satisfactory. He had directed the architect to test the chamber for himself (luring the preceding nights debate. The architect had since informed him that there were certain defects, especially in the galleries, and that measures must be taken to remedy them. It was proposed to put some cloth on the wall at the back of the Press gallery, and other measures would be taken as required. Every endeavour would be made to improve the position.

THE ADDRESS-IN-REPLY THE DEBATE RESUMED.. The debate on the Addrese-in-Eeply was resumed by Mr. G. Witty (Riccarton). He said that tho mover of the Address had spoken of a "dictator." There was a dictator in the.National Cabinet, lie quite agreed that the time had come v.hen no more married men should be sent to the front. This was not neces. eai-y under present conditions, sinco there were very many single men who had never been called up at all. He considered that Ministers hacUsome reason for feeling worried at the present time. The position of political affairs provided them with reason for unhappi J ness. Tn the Wellington North by-elpe-tion tho Liberal Leader had played the game, but the fame could not be said for the Reform Party in the Wellington Central by-election. Mr. Witty described the Government as "the limpet Ministry," and said the disturbance of the country by the Prohibition- agitation would have been avoided if tho general election had been taken at the proper time. The Government and the majority of members hod shirked facing the electors. He condemned the distribution of titles and honours to nil and sundry. The Governor's Speech had not been an impressive document. Various legislativo proposals were hinted at, including a remedy for tho high cost of living nnd a scheme of repatriation, but these wei-e subjects that the Government had neglected in the past. J\ T o definite proposals were brought down even now. The cost of living had reached a shamefully high level. Enormous profits had beoii made out of wool, hides, and other commodities at the expense of the consumers. The many were being oppressed in order that the few might bo enriched. No wonder there was unrest in the country. A Government with a statesmanlike policy would not lftive permitted a great producing country to be required to pay famine prices for its own products. The members of tho National Government were either woefully ignorant or wilfully negligent. Tho butter levy Bcheme had been a good one, but as soon as Sir. Massoy camo back to Now Zealand in 1917 lie said this scheme must/go. The butter producers must have every, penny they could get. Mr. C. A. Wilkinson (Egmont): The local price has not risen since. Mr. Witty: "The dairy farmers want to increase it'" Cheeso had been allowed to rot in the .stores while extravagant prices were asked the consumers. An enormous amount of bungling had occurred in connection with wheat. Ho believed "the Government had lost a million of money on its wheat transactions and had driven the wheat growers out of the industry. In fact, the Government had failed in all directions, and there was dissatisfaction throughout tho country. Even education had been neglected", although the children might to bo the first cure of the State. It was no reply to talk of shortage of money. The money wasted in other directions would cover the needs of the children. The Government ought to slop patriotic collections. A great deal of tho money collected in that way never reached tho soldiers. All tho money renuired for the soldiers should be raised by taxation. In conclusion Mr. Witty said that the war -was nearly over,

many men had escaped, and surely tho Government was not going lo semi any more married, men to the front. Mr. H. HOLLAND (Grey) said that the Labour members proclaimed boldly, that they stoou"\for the rebuilding of the social organisation and tlio realisation of the labour objective. The men on the Treasury bencues to-day represented powerful class interests, wjiich were opposed to the interests of the peoplo who rendered true social service. He did not deny tho existence of class war. He expected to shock unthinking members and anger intolerant members, but eventually the Labour members would convert intelligent members. Mr. Holland referred to tho result of recent by-elections, and said that the figures had forecasted clearly tho sentence of death that the people of the country were waiting tho opportunity of a general election to inflict on the National Government. There had been no real Parliamentary representation in -New Zealand since the end of 1017. The Government had refused to face the electors at the due date, booausc it knew what would happen. Ihe fight in'the future was going to be between Toryism and Labour, the Liberal Party could never recover its old .posi-tion-it stood to-day for the repudiation of the things that had mattered most in the policy of Ballance and Seddon. lne Labour Party indicted the Government on its legislation and on its conscription law, which had been an act of Prussian militarism that the people would .not have accepted if given a chance. Mr. Holland protested against "seditious tendency" being made an offence under the War Regulations, and said that between 200 and 300 of tho best men in the country were now in prison, while thousands of others were fugitives in the bush, as a result of the militarism of the New Zealand Government. He objected to the punishment of men who refused military service. Mr. Holland dealt witli the question of war profits,, and condemned the Governments financial methods. The Labour Party urged that an election should lake place early next year on the "round that the National Government had proved incapable of hand ing the situation that had arisen m. the past three years, and was incapable of riealinif with' the problems that would onee when the soldiers returned (o -New Zealand, ffe'urged flint, seeing that it was so unpopular, the Government should go to the electors early in the coming year. * Candid Criticism.

Dr. A. K. NEWMAN (Wellington East) said that tho last speaker had made an able speech, but it hatl been impaired by the fact that it had not contained a sijjgle note of patriotic thought or a single indication that the member for Giey would be prepared to help the Government through its war difficulties. It had to bo admitted that 'many of tho speeches made by Labour members were able, and he could not avoid a feeling of regret that many members of the Labour .Party had not helped the nation in the struggle for victory, and were not out to help it. This attitude was the more regrettable in that there was much truth in some of the statements made by the Labour members. One of tho chief reasons for the recent successes of the Labour Party had been the growing unpopularity of the' National Government. The Labour,men misinterpreted the position when they claimed that their successes were due to the popularity of the Labour Party.. They were not on sound ground when they announced that they Jifld come with a message from the country, and inferred that seventy odd other membi-ra had no message at all.

Mr. ?. G. Smith (faranakij: You won't go to the country for your mes-

Dr. Newman: "When it comes to voting fur a general election I shall bo found voting for going to the people.". It was idb to deny that from one end of New Zinland, to the other there was much djscni'tent with the Government. This discontent was not eplained by a mere statement that the people were war wtn'v. If Mr. Lloyd George went to tho country he would come back with a triumphant majority, Jlr. Borden had been given a renewed majority, if President Wilson weiit to the country ho would get a majority. But the ■ handwriting was ou the wall for the New Zealand National Government; and yet he believed that'tho members of the Ministry, in their own hearts, inenni to do the right thing. He had tried himself often to keep them from going • wrong. He had gone to them privately and earnestly. But they hnd never listened to anything he said, nny more- than -they listened to their own political friends. It appeared that they wero political super-men. They wore above criticism and above suggestion. In the old days, when he was on the Opposition benches, he had been able to go to Mr. Soddon, and if he had a good suggestion to make it was adopted. But it was quite different with the Ministers of to-day. The Ministers would listen to nobody. That feeling had grown up in the country.

The Government's Mistake. Dr. Newman said the Government had made n great mistake in refusing to attend to domestic legislation during the mil , . The policy of taihoa had created grent dissatisfaction. The Government had got an idea that there must be iio progress during the year. In England, on the other hand, the cry was for pro,gress. Enormous development had been made in industry, great shipyards had beon crested, huge factories had been constructed. England was forging ahead. But New Zealand lagged. No forward move was to be . made until after the war. The delay, in making a beginning with the Shannon water-power scheme was an illustration. Public works ought not to be at a standstill during the war, and the sooner the Government became active the belter. The proposal in the Governor-General's Speech to hand over all water-power to local bodies was a retrograde one. The Government could have no iden of the discontent that existed in the country over the lack of progress. Dr. Newman said thnt the most striking feature of the Speech was the lack of any reference to the liquor question. Six o'clock closing had. been a most popular mensure, but there was still much to be 'done, and he hoped .(lie Government would give serious attention to the liquor question. The people were dissatisfied at the importation of so much whisky.

"Lack of Human Sympathy." Dr. Newman said he was disgusted with a\good many things that had occurred in connection, inlh the government of the country. In respecFto the soldiers there had been a lack of human sympathy and a lark of human kindness. Soldiers returning broken from tho seat of war had to go through the tropics with thick clothing. .Surely such a state of things needed remedying. Men had been discharged in an unfit stale and told to get light jobs. How were they to get light jobs? They might as well try, .to jump over ' the moon. (Laughter.) To turn men out of hospital at a place like Tiotorua without having a job for them to go to was most unkind. Tile Government should guarantee work for the men. Somebody should live with the men and find out their wants. The reduction of pensions was .also a. cruelty in many cases. Such mutters as that needed looking to. The administration of the Red Cross Funds was unsatisfactory. He luul been told that at Plymouth there were great numbers of cases of goods lying unopened. That was not right as the soldiers at the front required the goods. More attention should be paid to education, and before Parliament dissolved it should institute a better system of technical education. The primary system of education was first-class, but he thought the secondary system could be vastly improved. The university was oldfashi'oned and the Senato was out of date. Instead of time being wasted m the leaching of such things as Greek, he would give instruction in such subjects as music. Tho education system required modernising. Tho treatment accorded aliens in our midst was altogelher wrong. They should employ large numbers of them -who were idle in the execution of useful public works, such as the construction of roadn. There were men of German blood occupying high places in the land, and instances hail occurred where the sons of some of them had refused to go to the front on account of their fathers being German. There was something wrong with the formation of tho National Government. It reminded him of an unfortunate marriage. /Ihere were such things as happy marriages— from love and affection. But there were others which were marriages of convenience, and the National Government was one of them. (Laughter.) It's married life was nothing but discord. Tho Government was not progressive enough. TJiO

country required real leadership and a policy'of progress. There was a good ileal of •"drivel" in the. Governor-Gen-eral's Speech. "For Heavens sake, added Dr .Newman, "como down with a policy and tell us what you are going to do" The .spirit of discontent in tho country was more, or less a righteous one, and it would go an until something drastic was done to :remody it. Progressive schemes, suoh a » water-power projects, must be put in hand straight.away. Hβ concluded !)y aßpcalinj to the I'rimo Minister and thfr Minister of Finance to do their duty to the country and bring down legislation of a comprehensive and progressive character. The General Election.

Mr. J. T. 3L BOBNSBY (Wairarapa) saiil he had heard a good, deal about tho need for a general election, but ho was not convinced that the people wanted an. election while the war was in progress. When the National' Government was formed it had been, agreed that there should be no election until six months after the declaration of peace. Was that agreement to be torn up? But, beiovo they had an election they should idopt the principle of proportional representation, with the preferential vote. • Jake the case of Wellington Central. l.te member elected certainly polled more votes than all the o.ther candidates put together, but 4500 people never recorded The Hon. W. D...5. Mac Donald: That shows they do'not'want an election. Air. Hornsby: "Exactly. They dont want to be bothered with it.' 01' course he quite recognised that ft good many people did not vote because they entertained a feeling of disgust at the inertia of the National Government. Iho pay of school teachers needed to be improved, and there should be more money voted for education purposes. There was a good deal of reason why Labour should be asserting itself. Take the case or the engine-drivers. Three men positively had no homo life, and on their behali he demanded that something should be done for them. All they desired was the right to live in a decent way. 'The men in the Civil ■ Service were in as great straits as were those in the railway service. As many as could were leaving the service. The wages system of the country had utterly failed, for every time an increase was granted up went the price of commodities. What had tho Board of Trade been doing when it did not prosecute those profiteers who were robbing the people? An hon. member: It has no power to prosecute. , Mr. Hornsby: No, but it has tho power to make ft. recommendation. The Prime Minister: Any recommendation of the Boarti of Trade «ji; be given effect to. ' Continuing, Mr. Hornsby advocated the adoption of a system of ic-operation. which, ho thought, would tend to improve'toe lot of the people. He condemned those who had unjustly raiEed the price of commodities and necessary articles. An hon. member: War time. Mr. Hornsby: War time! -Swindling time, or robber time, or whatever you like to call it. There is no excuse for it. After referring to 'he need for better treatment of returned soldiers, Mr. Hornsby went on to speak of the land question. Unless steps were taken to limit the size of' holdings, Parliament would be false to tho people of the country.

THE GOVERNMENT'S WORK. HON. G. W. RUSSELL. LN REPLY. Tho Hon. G. W. RUSSELL (Minister of Internal Affairs) said the Government had no reason whatever to object to criticism. In fact, a keenly critical feeling was to be expected under present conditions. As a member of the Government, he was not prepared to say that it was immaculate, or that it had not made mistakes. But the National Government had been formed for one pur-' lioso only, and that was to give full expression to the determination of the people of this country to take its full' sharo in the war. That had been the main purpose of tho Government throughout its existence. That also was the reason why there had been possibly less attention given to domestic policy than there should have been. Tho Government liad now foreshadowed, in tho Governors Speech, several very important matters that would come before the Houso during the present session, and these wore not all the matters 'that would come before the House. Members would know that it was not tho custom of Governments to disclose the whole of their policy proposals in the Speech. Referring to the spseches of Labour members, Mr. Russell said that he congratulated tho member for Grey on being a member oi the House. Mr. Holland had made an üblo speech, and when he had changed some of his opinions, as other men had done in tho House, he might become a man of influence. ■ But the member for Grey was an Australian, and ho did not understand the high patriotic ideals that were the inheritance of New Zealand from great men of the past. The men of New Zealand had not needed the;spnr of conscription to send them to the front. The Dominion had sent 03,000 volunteers away before a single balloted man left the country. But conscription hud been required in'order to secure equality of sacrifice. The men who were ready to volunteer objected to somo other men evading the call of duty and-taking ad-. Vantage of the depleted labour market. One man should not be required to fight while ' other men equally ableto go to tho front were staying at home. The conscription law had put all men on a basis of equality. Mr Russell said that the National Gov-. oinment, had just as much regard as anybody else for the rights of the'people. But-a tremendous responsibility had rested upon the Government to see- that the nation did its duty effectively and remained united in the face of the enemy. The Ministers had to act in dischargeof that responsibility solely us a matter of fairness to the men who were away.. The rcgradiiig of the men in the Public Servico had been postponed. What had been the result of the entry of New Zealand iuto the war? Let them rend of the Anziics at Gallipoli, let them read of the records of what their men were doing now. Did not their blood run faster at the noble feats put up by those men? The hon. member for Grey should ponder over those fncfe=. New Zealand had sent away 100,000 men to fight for the Hag, three times as many men as the Duke of Wellington had under him at Waterloo. Was not that a fact to be proud of? The Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance had sat in the inner councils of the Empire, thus showing that New Zealand was taking a higher place in the affairs of tho Empire. ■

The Cost of Living. In regard to the cost of living they all knew of the tremendous increases that had taken place. He was not prepared to say that everything possible luul been done for tho purpose of lessening the cost of living, but ho wanted to impress upon the House the fact that the increase of prices from, which the people were suffering wns world wide. He would place.before the House figures prepared by the Government Statistician showing how tho cost of living had increased in various countries; In Australia, to July, 1918, tho increase had been 31 per cent.; in New Zealand to July, 1918, it had been 39 per cent.; United States, to April 1918, 50 per cent.; Japan, to July, 1917 66 per cent.; Canada, to July, 1918, 75 per cent;.; Netherlands, to July, 1917, 81 per cent.; Italy, to September, 1917, 88 per cent.; France, to January--1918, 91 per cent.; Switzerland, to March, 1918, 90 per cent.; United Kingdom, to July, 1918, 110 per cont.; Germany, to OctoTjer, 191(i, ]09 per cent.; Sweden, to April, 1918, 117 per cent; Austria, to August. 1917, 17,3 per cent.: Norway, to-March, 11118, 195 per cent. Therefore he would ask lion, members to bear in mind, and to ask themselves the question, that considering the upheaval that had taken place in all the country's trade relations, ,md oiving to the economic conditions, how could they expect to escape one of (lie certain and inevitable results of war by holding do\v;i their prices to the normal level at which they were situated before the war? lie came to another paint. The member for Grey had read on I o number of figures showing the increase in value of the Dominion's products siiwc the war. Those figures were' unquestionable. The member for Grey had also raised a question with /reference to the Government having in its possession a secret supplement of statistics. The trade figures .were held confidentially 'by the instructions of the Imperial Government, and the document lo which the hon. member had referred ras issued only to those heads of Do-

partinonts whose business related to the exports of the country, and also to the Imperial Government ior imperial putposes. So that it would be undorstood that the holding of the documents as confidential aud secret was not tlio action of the New Zealand Government, but the action of Uio Imperial Government, in order-that the enemy might not become aware of the trade that was being done.

Mr. Holland: It was tho war profits that I was referring to.

Mr. Russell: What does Hie honourable gentleman expect to be done? Does he for one moment suppose that when America, the Argentine,- Australia, and other competing countries were able to sell their produce at prices that were offered by tho Imperial Government, that the Government!; of New Zealand should have said: "We decline to take any increase on the value of our products?" What had been the. effect o; the large sums of money that hod comt into the Dominion, since the war started? New Zealand had raised <£4G,000,000 for the purpose of pfiying the entire cost of tho war from tlio standpoint of New Zealand's responsibilities. The policy which had been arranged, providing that the money which tvqs being received for our produce should be in turn transferred to the exdhoquer of the Dominion for the purpose of carrying on the war was the soundest that could possibly have been d/svised, and without it New Zealand could not have borne its responsibilities. The Dominion's war record was one of -which they might feel proud. He was proud to be a member of Parliament at a time when ;t had risen eo magnificently to its responsibilities. (Hear, hear.)

Elections and Loyalty. Mr. Eussell said that he did not regard tho elections tor Grey and Wellington Central as accurately representing the feeling of the people. The time would come when a general .--'ectiou would take place, and when that time came he was confident that the men returned would bo men who were marked by loyalty. The number of men returned whose loyulty was doubtful would be numbered on ihe fingers of one haiff, and that was precisely the position in the House to-day.

Mr. M'Combs (Lyttalton) ttiised a point of order. Tho Minister' had said that there was a disloyal group in the House.

The Speaker ruled that the Minister had not relloctod on any particular member of the Houbo.

. jlr. Busselli 1 am pleased to find that tile hon. meinligr for Lytteltou is sensitive on the point. It indicates a lurking feeling of repentance, and 1 feel sure that the feeling will become acute before tho next election. .1 am sure the member will not be prepared to stand as a candidate for Parliament and declare anything in the nature of sentiments of disloyalty to the Crown or Empire. It is only those whose loyalty ie doubtful that my remarks apply to. In couclusioni Mr. Russell emphasised llio' importance of repatriation. He said that tho preparations for the return of tho soldiers ought to be comprehensive. It was not enough to promise the men the chance of working on co-operative public works. The Government and the patriotic funds ought to provide for the returning soldiers in ninny directions. They should find land and homes, even furniture, for them. Measures should l>o taken to develop the great mineral resources of New Zealand and to promote industry. The utilisation of waterpower was of the utmost importance, and he thought it; better that local .bodies should be allowed to develop the power now than thnt all schemes should be hung up/until the Government could take action. The extension and elaboration of the education system was also a matter of tlie greatest iiniinrtance. Ho hoped to see local authorities permitted to spend money in perfecting the facilities for technical education. The ipeople who were predicting the early death of the National Government could be assured that the Government either as an entity, oi' in its two parts, would (jo to the country at the proper time, and would submit a policy that would meet with general approval. The debate was adjourned, ami the House adjourned at 10.27 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. to-day. ,