DEFENCE AFFAIRS

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 199, 11 May 1918, Page 8

DEFENCE AFFAIRS

GENERAL ROBIN GIVES EVIDENCE

TERRITORIAL TRAINING

A FEW SOBER FACTS

. Ihe Defence Expenditure Commission sat yesterday to hear evidence. Brigadierbeneral bir Robert Anderson presided,al \r ¥ r - c Mes Rhodes sat with him. . Maior-Gener.il -Sir A. W. Robin, Actnig Commandant of Die Now Zealand iorces-since October, Mi, gave evidence. He said that he was not what might be called a 'regular" soldier, hilt he had accepted permanent service in New Zea. land in 1898.

Mr. Rhodes: That's only twenty years ago, General!

-The chairman: You are not like some of your officers who have been before us. borne with 20 months' service have called themselves "regular." We think, as a mader of fact, your answer does vou infinite credit.

General Robin gave an account of his military career in New -Zealand, in South Africa, at tie War Office in England, and in New Zealand with the NewZealand Staff. He said that by force of war circumstances nnd the consequent .depletion of the higher rank and experienced officers to form the Expeditionary i ° he had to fill the dual position I?'? V- lld Q ' M ' G ' Tt ™ 5 verv difficult tor him to carry on, the principal drawback lieing that ho was unable personally to regularly supervise and inspect throughout the Dominion.

No Centralisation. He did not agree that tlhere was too much centralisation at Q.H.Q, Generally the officers commanding districts had powers at their disposal. In making comparisons it should be remembered that the districts in the United Kingdom, Canada,'and Australia, were selfcontained G.O.C. commands, each with greater establishment than the whole of New Zealand, except, perhaps, three dis-' tticts out of six-in. Australia. All of the so-called-"districts in New Zealand were in daily postal distanco .from G.H.Q., and throe were on tihe long-distance telephone connection. "I fancy," he said, 'the impression of undue centralisation lately raised .circle's round the recruiting question under tli'e Military Service Act; this the Adjutant-General will show is •not so centralised as is thought bysWe officers. I am of opinion that / the tightening up of accounting and the concriticism of a certain thoughtless section in regard to Defence generally in this time of emergency, has had the effect of involuntarily causing much matter to be referred to Ger2 oral Headquarters which cpuld easily have been carried out locally. 1 can think of no casp where initiative by districts has been discouraged or repudiated. On the contrary, officers commanding districts often write mo personally when/they have anything ontheir minds. ' I appreciate very much the work done by these temporary commanders and their stall's since the war broke out:' '

Finance,

Question:. In your opinion should officers commanding districts be allowed a discretionary expenditure limit, say, £100 to .£150? Does the present system of allowing them no margin lead to costly correspondence, laok of initiative, and ultimate want of efficiency?

Answer: In the matter of finance, contracts, and dealings with (the public, the Treasury and Public Service Itegulahons and Instructions must be followed as closely as possible. Although .not therein stated, throughout the war, since 11)1-1, district commands were, and still are, authorised to expend on necessities up to certain amounts at one time. "I cannot understand the reluctance to use this ..authority. The only condition required in such loca'. expenditure is that the transaction is afterwards properly ac counted for and brought to charge. Surely it is not suggested that such amounts should be expended without any accounting or recording whatever. If such is tho suggestion it cannot be acceded to. A number of stock cases of socalled 'red tapo' has been brought before you. You nave not beard of the scores of cases of initiative iii expenditure takon by districts, which were in no case re-1 pudiated -,vhen explained." -:

Officers' Pay and Allowances. General Eobin, replying, to n question, said that compared with other, Departments of the State, the pay of military officers was fair. Compared with (fther military foices of the Overseas Dominions the New Zealand Force was underpaid. Any increnso to bB made should be from the rank of captain downwards, und the elimination of cer. tain expensive dress uniforms. He would suggest the issue of service uniforms to all below the rank of colonel. Tlie chairman said that the Commission had noted the unevenness in salaries, and the big allowances made. lieal'.y, the system of allowances originated in Britain, where, owing to the fact that officers were very poorly paid, they were helped with these little extras. There was r.o reason why New Zealand should follow the British example. General Eobin said that he beneved such was the origin of the allowance. He did not attempt to justify the system. It had for years been his constant endeavour to bring about a consolidation of officers' pay and allowances into, one lump sum. He sincerely trusted) that the investigation into pay and allowances now going on might assist to make this vexed question more clearly understood.

Clerks in Khaki. Question: We have found that the men employed by you i.re not\ all under the same authority; some are under the Public Service Commissioner, othqrs seem to be neither soldiers nor under the Public Service Commissioner; others are enlisted soldiers. Please explain the system of employment, and what is, as the result of your' experience, your preference with regard to control? Answer: The condition noticed is aggravated by war .-onditions and the shortage of men. The employment of men under other control has in the past been unsatisfactory. The establishment of the Ordnance, Pay and Army Service Corps even under the strain of war was to eliminate ns far aa possible tho dnal control. The position at present is that beggars cannot be choosers, and we have to get men how and where we can. It is hoped even yet to get home service made compulsory, but even then trade ■ and commerce, nnd the producing industries must to a large extent have first call on men not taken for the Expeditionary Force. My preference is that all should he under one control. Question: Is it necessary to put Into uniform men of various ranks temporarily employed on military work? For Instance, men engnged purely on clerical duties. Is not such action prone to convey an erroneous impression' to the pub.\nswer: In uniform means that the man hns enlisted and assures his sor-T-ices at nil hours of the seven days oi the week with disciplinary control. In time of necessity, and especially war, there is no limit to the time of a soldier when there is work in be done. Tho public, being n'ccustnmed to office hours, may form an erroneous impression, not heir,* aware of the fnct. There is no necessity for purely clerical men fn he in linifflfm, but if .hey are n»t. enlisted there is, and has been, trouble whni overtime is required. A Contrast, Question: Have you a. topographical surveyor? If so, is he a civilian or a soldier? Answer: Yes. The iopogrnphicnl surveyor, who is in charge of the toposrrnphical w.Hin of the branch of the Chief of the f!em""il Ktnff, ir. a Public Servant, under the Public Service Commissioner. is Tated ns n civilian nnd not ns a soldier. There is not considered to ho any reason for changing his present status,, since he does not come into contact with soldiers; Tt i.s intended Inter to form a Works and Tlupinnnr. faction of the Force with nunlihVd officers on demobilisation of tho Expeditionary Force. Tho chairman had a little to say about

this. He had seen the work of the topographical surveyor, and it was excel, lent. The Intelligence Section of the British Army was the creme do la crerae. Here this man was not even a soldier, whereas when a dentist or a lawyer was taken for professional services ho had to be made an officer and given rank, uniform, and 11 high snlary.

Soldiers

Question: Are military representatives on tho military sirvice boards appointed because of military or legal experience? If the latter, why do they always appear in uniform? Have you noticed how unsoldierly some of these military representatives are sometimes in ill-fit-ting uniforms, worn not in soldierly fashion, long haired, and in other ways of slovenly appearance? Would it not be more comfortable for these mon (this criticism applies of-course only to portion) to wear mufti and thereby proceed about their business less obtrusively than at present? t , Answer\ They are appointed principally for their legal experience, coupled witli some previous Territorial or military experience. There were not enough legal officers to meet the demand, hence a few for the first time wear uniforms. I am sorrv to say that it k not only sonic of tho military representatives who do not parry their uniform t-marlly.

The Territorials. Question: (1) Would it be possible to allow a longer period between the date of ballot and ilio actually calling into camp of the men who have had considerable Territorial training? (2) And would this not be a big economic saving as,well as a lightening of tho duty of the men involved? (3) Does it not seem a large unnecessary cost to the country to withdraw from productive work men who have had, for instance, five to seven years' Territorial training to put tlhcm through an amount of preparatory work as soldiers of the Expeditionary l'orce equal to that undergone by inen joining up quito raw and inexperienced. Answer:' (1) and (2) The necessity does not exist. (3) The Samoan, Main force, and earlier reinforcements practically depleted tho Territorial l'orce of all fit and eligible men of 20 years of age and over. It was due to this that tho banioan and Main Force and first reinforcements were able to proceed without preliminary training.

Partly-trained Men. Questions: When men are enlisted for the Expeditionary Force, is N a difference made between men who have had training in tne Territorials ami those coming in as recruits!' if so, why not? is it, ia your opinion, wise to make men wiio have had some years Territorial experience commence at the very beginning in their recent training for tho Expeditionary Force? Is not such a proceeding rather a reflection on the _ value ot the training received in the Territorial I'orce? ~ . . . implies: The position really is that in 1908-IW, after every effort by the late Council of Defence had been made to improve the old volunteer system of the Dominion, it was decided to prepare a universal training scheme to take the place of-the volunteer force. In 1909 Parliament passed the Universal Training •Vet to come into operation the lirst of the'following year. In the meantime, however, arrangements having been made whereby the late Field Marshal Lord Kitchener would visit the Dominion early in 1910 to inspect the volunteer forces and advise on the 100U Act, it was decided to over the coming into operation of the Act awaiting his opinion. As a result certain suggestions by tho Field-Marshal were discussed by tlie 'I'JIO Parliament and embodied in the Act, the principal suggestions being to share with Australia iu the Duntroon Military College, form a staff corps 'and permanent stall' of n.c.o.'s, and in view of 'tho short time available,, for training per year to increase the years of service with the colours. , The New Zealand Staff Corps and Permanent Stall, as now known, was initiated iu a lengthy camp of instruction commencing in January, 1811, at Tauhereuikau, from which place, after a special course of preparation in tlhe working and application of tho scheme, all ranks proceeded direct to duty at general and tile various district headquarters, groups, and areas, etc.,, to bring the Act into operation and evolve tne Territorial Army out of the'old volunteer system. ' it may be of interest here to state that the scheme normally required seven years to become automatic in its action) viz., youths at tho age of 18 to pass but of cadets into Territorial training-till reaching the age of 25, and then to the reserve, the force being found by an annual quota of lads of 18 posted in 'Juno of each year in sufficient numbers to include wastage, and maintain the 30,000 authorised by Parliament. Within this 6even years it was intended to spread the cost and to complete the services "necessary to fully equip and maintain the Territorial Army of ]S : ew Zealand. i

In March nnd April of 1911. the In-spector-General of the Overseas Forces (General Sir lan Hamilton) inspected the Territorial 'Forces in so-called divisional camps by districts. His report supported the scheme, commending generally the progress made and suggesting certain administrative improvements; these were duly- worked out and were being introduced when war broke out. Despite this strain the Ordnance and Pay ■ Corps, Army Service Corps, and Medical Services have been reorganised in accordance with the ndvice of Lord Kitchener and General Sir Inn. Hamilton to standardise with Imperial require mentt>. ■The War Came Upon Us. In August, I'JM, the strain of war fell on the system 8i years before the schemo was fully developed, but, even so, right well has it proved its value. I should like to correct an impression arising out of certain evidence or reports of such. It has been alleged that the expended on the Territorial Force might as well have beeD thrown into the sea. The fact is that for all services from 1910 to March, 1917, the total amount expended waa £3,Vn,%'i, including payment for equipment, guns, armament, etc. It is this expenditure and liability contracted in peace time which'made the Expeditionary Force possible; it provided equipment, supplies, armament, and maintenance. In like manner the proportion spent out of the above in training the Territorial Force before the war made it possible to dispatch within a fortnight, a fully equipped and trained force to occupy Samon, and to mobilise and embark the Main Force on transports awaiting naval escort ready to sail within seven weeks of the call up. Results on the field, from landing in Samoa, Egypt,'and later in France up to date have beyond doubt shown that the personnel and equipment of all ranks was not found wanting, and that the Territorial Force training even with the then undeveloped administration had justified itself. ... In fact, the Expeditionary Force left for service complete in armament, arms, ammunition, tents, and camp equipment, capable of being disembarked self-contained anywhere. This all due to the state of the Territorial Force oven in its undeveloped state. Reply to Arijuments. !. It has been contended that the Territorial training was ignored when lads go into the Expeditionary Force Camp. This is not so. An analysis would show that th'sst were and are tho lads who principally gain officers and n.c.o. rank. The. Territorial Force was not an automatic working by age quotas, having only had four years posting instead of seven, at the commencement of the wnr. It must not be forgotten hero that, tho medical unfitness for the Territorial force is practically confined to a very small proportion of absolutely unfit, the object being during Cadet and Territorial training to endeavour to improve tlie physique, thus the postings cannot, ho' taken as a basis for calculation on source of-fit men supply for an Expeditionary Force. The estimated number reaching the ago of twenty 'is 6600 each year. The fitnpss test' for the Expeditionary Force applied to this number would not, as has been suggested, practically lind the reinforcement drafts.

To propose that they' be sent abroad almost at once brings -up three important questions:— (a) To face the present highly and specially-trained enemy without preliminary training in New Zealand. (b)" To be sent abroad to England or Prance to be trainod there.

(o) To rcduj the period of training.

With regard to the first, unless we equip and train these men to be disciplined en route, and enable them to meet and hold their own with the enemy, and to be in a stato to at once go on with special higher training in England we send them to possible death and to deteat for want of training.

With regard to tho second, to 6end men for preliminary training to England or Prance without certain training here is to tax the instructional staff, to further crowd tho already crowded space, and to consume rations which uro badly needed for tho troops and people in fheso countries. It would be little, if any, saving to eliminate training here, and transfer tho period to abroad.

And thirdly, to suggest, reducing the period of training to merely reduce expenditure at tho expense of efficiency is a grave and serious responsibility for any Government or its military advisers to tafce. With the experience of this past throe and a half years, training and discipline is the essential. Regular authentic reports from abroad support the system adopted by New Zealand, and although repeated inquiries have been made I have so far received no evidence) or suggestion sufficiently sound to reduce the period of training in New Zealand.

"Half a Loaf." It hardly comes within the scope of the Commission, but having been mndo public before tho Commission, it may be of interest to the public to know the Territorial training was based on what time could bo spared from com'mercial, pastoral, and industries of tho Dominion, not what fas' considered sufficient by the military advisers. It was on the principle of better half a loaf than none. . Tt was never contended tiial the train, ing was or is sufficient. On the contrary, every opportunity has been taken lo increase the originally laid down period for continuous concentrations. The main problem under these conditions was to provide the: necessary organisation, establishment armament, equipment, supply, transport and nimy methods to mobilisation for defence against attack in relation to the general naval situation, depending upon a period of training for which there would be time.y warning Other countries than New Zealand did not provide in peace against this unprecedented war in which the ttorld is engaged. It is not generally known that the Expeditionary l'orca abroad (thanks to the universal training (system) is really a. part of the territorial Army To eliminate the present skeleton work of the 'territorial Force would hit the Expeditionary Force, mid would not necessarily prove an economy.

Shortages of Rifles. Question: Are there shortages now in the various districts in the number ot rifles they should possess? If shortages have been reported in the districts, what is the reason alleged for Iheni! 1 Answer: There are shortages. In mj. opinion the grout part of these iinaccounted rifles went abroad with the Mam Body and curly reinforcements, not being properlv transferred in the natural bustle and urgency to got these forces dispatched. The Camps. Question: Are you satisfied with the present system of training; for instance, having two camps fairly close, togethei in the North Island, or would,you prefer a training camp for each island or each Answer: With the then depleted staff of the Dominion it was considered that efficient training war, only practicable under tho present system of centrahsecl training camps: This system has been previously discussed and decided by -the Government. The. depletion ofthe trained staff by absorption into the Lxpeclitionary Force and earlier .icinforceiuents for one reason left no option but to concentrate- for effective training. . Question: If yon had a training camp in each district, would the. present district Headquarters officers be enabled, Kith small assistance, to carry out the supervision and training at those; camps. Answer: ft is not considered that the district staff could carry on the training camps for the N.Z.E.F. with slight additions to their statf. I have no hesitation in saying that such a proposal would ultimately involve larger staffs and overheal expenses than is at present employed, and, in consequent, infinitely greater expenditure. After General'lfobiu had completed his °fhTchairinau said that his answers had "ivnn tho Commission great satisiac tion and pleasure. There had not been a suspicion of camouflage -in them Ho wished to offer the thanks of the Commission to the Commandant for tho rwilitira that ha 1 been ottered, for the inquiry right through the districts. General Robin m lorn tnanked the Commission for unfailing courtesy in all dialings with officers of the Department.