DEFENCE AFFAIRS

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 184, 24 April 1918, Page 6

DEFENCE AFFAIRS

QUESTIONS ABOUT AUDIT FITTING OUT OF SHIPS CAMP CONSTRUCTION The Defenco Expenditure Commission eat again yesterday for tho hearing of evidence. " Sir Robert Anderson presided, and with him sat Mr. Charles j Rhodes. Mr. Peter Barr was still absent unwell. / Colonel B. J. Collins, Auditor-General, gave evidence first of all on the audit of Defence expenditure. He explained in detail the system of pre-audit, and enlarged upon its advantages. Ho said that there had been a gradual improvement in the supervision of expenditure since the war broke out. Tho chairman: The war camo on you suddenly, and found you, the same as eyory other country, unprepared. You had to develop a new system, but you were a good deal better than most oilier countries, because you picked it up quicker. ■ Witness: That is so, sir. We liave got into our groovo now. Ho went on to say that he had often had to query items of expenditure under the wnv expenses account. The Minister did not object to I his action on his part, but on the contrary had on more than one occasion thanked him for having drawn attention to expenditure. Referring to over-payments to soldiers and dependants, ho said that the total amount outstanding was =£8245, to which amount it had been reduced from ,£13,457 since. February 28. The bulk of this over-pay-ment took place in the first year of the war. He did not agreo with the chairman that the over-payments were duo to the bad type of pay-book ; The mistakes occurred owing to the failure of battalion officers to make the neccssai^ , entries in the pay-books, and no improvement in the typo of pay-book could obviato these difficulties. -He considered that the pay branch was to be congratulated on its good wort, and on the small amount over-paid. The chairman: We can endorse Hint. The amount over-paid is very small in proportion to the millions you have paid —not more than a penny or twopenco per cent.

The chairman remarked upon the fact that the daily charge for ammunition of all kinds in Gallipoli was never higher than Is., whereas in France the lowest charge was 2s. sd. per day, rising to 7s. lid. Witness said that no cases of fraud in connection with war expenses had come under his notice. ■ There had been cases of allotments having been fraudulently obtained, and minor cases of embezv.lpment, but these had mostly been satisfactorily settled by recoveries. Resentment Against Audit, Very few Defence olh'cers resented queries by tho Audit Department, but one highly-placed otlicial had been highly incensed uecauee tho audit questioned his right to pay moneys received by him for a Defence purpose direct to contractors, and not through, tlio Public Account, tlie only manner in which tho money could bu legally expended. -The members of one important Board of Service, indeed, actually raised the contention that audit should accept as satisfying all requirements their statement that "as far as they Jjnow" vouchers sent'on by tliem for payment are correct and reasonable, and they regarded., audit queries as a reflection upon their personal integrity. All these troubles arose, through tho regulations not being strictly observed by administrative officers. Many officials had condemned the requirements of regulations as "red tape," and regarded them as irksome and annoying, while the readiness with which others had signed vital certificates was most remarkable. Printed certificates not applicable to the claims rendered had been signed without any alteration showing that the signature was only affixed as a matter of form.

The chairman: Or course wo must be tender with the military man. He has had a different-training and lie does not like bothering with business. . I have never met a soldier who was a good business man, or a good business man who was a soldier. There must bo such men, but 1 have never met them. Witness: That is so, sir. When you find a business man get into a khaki uniform you don't find him looking after things as he did when he was a civilian. Colonel Collins said that he would not care to comment on Defence extravagance, assuming that such existed, as tho Audit Office under present legislation hnd no duty to object or report tluit public moneys expended with statutory authority wero not economically expended. Referring to the Defence Audit he said that this was all under a capable officer. The chairman: They haven't got him into uniform yet? Witness: Oh, no. Ho is an officer of my Department. The chairman: Don't be too sure, they might get 'him in yet. Witness said that this could never be tolerated. The Audit should be kept absolutely free from Army control. The Transports—Commissioners Not Satisfied. Archibald Walker, surveyor to Lloyds' Begister in Wellington, and a. member of the Transport Board, said that he was paid three guineas a day on every day that ho was employed, and travelling expenses, .lie had drawn in the three years and a half about .£2OOO in fees. .When he was engaged in August, IUI4, as a member of the board he was informed that his services were required for valuation of ships, for the taking over of equipment, and to act in a measure as an arbiter between the shipowners and the Defence Department. Of late he had attended only those meetings of the board at which ho was asked to be present. He had so much of his own work to do that he was not able to follow closely.the work of the board. Witness gave an account of how alterations were made to ships to fit them out as transports. Witness slated under cross-examination by the chairman that while atimekeepcr was put on by the board to check time worked on any ship, there was mo proper chock kept on tho material used on tho job. Tlio contractors wero paid by "time and lino" receiving ten pet cent, on their outlay. The chairman: But the fundamental principle of this method is to check the outlay? Witness: That has never been done. The chairman: Wo must look into this. We must postpone your evidence. II opens up a new field of investigation \sk your colleagues (o meet and see how best they can bring it before us. What we want to know is what the. checks are on tho fitting out of ships in the last two veal's. Colonel Hiley's Evidence. Colonel Ernest H. Hiley, General Manager of, Railways, and Director of Railways and WorKs, loid how hu camo to gel his military appointment. Hβ said thai ho received no pay and- no allowances for this work. He was asked to take over tho work on .luly '>i. 1915, ir, tlio timo when the health of tho troops in Trc-nthaui CaniD became so bad that tho ciimp had to be evacuated at a few hours' notice. When he agreed to tako over Ihu duties he discovered that Hie Defciico people had no ideas as to the munber of men Treutham should contain, but after sonic conl'i'i-oiicis Dlnns iMtfo evolved. Tho first tasks were the roading of the camp, a new and move elaborate plan of sanitation, and tlio olt'carrying of surface water, in all this the Public Works Department did excellent work at! that time. After the two camps became- habitable by soldiers the Public Works camps of civilian labourer,-! were broken up, and it was decided that tho works should be parried on In a corps on Hoyal Engineers' lines, workin" under his direction. He did not po.<-u as°an engineering expert; he was merely a business man ii.rn:i.ic I ho work oi experts. Witness denial tluu. the engineer officer in charge ut Feui-hurston had no power to put in a new pane of glass in a broken window without a requisition to Wellington. Windows wore ir.rqiicntly replaced without any such reference to Wollincton. The chairman examined the witness on a sorios of complaints that had been

nindo to Uio Comuiissiou at the camps on the score that tho camo authorities hail no power to do even tho smallest works without reference to the director. Colonel lliley gavo an explanation iu every case which appeared to be adequate. Generally tJie effect of tho explanations wore that the jobs described as trivial required expenditure of fairly large sums of money, or were so trivial as not u> rttjuirb special authority.

Tlio chairman remarked: Wn are impiesscd with the very good work that has been doiio out there, but it is these trifles that cause irritation. What I eay is that the commandant should be given more discretionary power—ho is a highly paid officer—and if he does wrong pillory -him or sack nim. But. give him sonic discretionary power. The Commission adjourned until 11 a.m. to-day.