NATIONAL SERVICE SCHEIE

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 176, 15 April 1918, Page 6

NATIONAL SERVICE SCHEIE

WIDE AUTHORITY SOUGHT UTILISING OUR RESOURCES TO BtST AUVAHfAtit.v The clause relating to nationaUservice was uuestioued by tne Labour members. Tuey urged mat the clause was too-im-portant go througu wittioul more close examination. Several members asked who would administer tne schemo. Sir Joseph ward: That is not settled

yet. An hon. member: Ferguson, 1 suppose. (Cries of ":No.") Mr. M'Ullum: We country people want to'know. It is a very important matter to us. The I'riiiib Minister said there was no cause )ui alien alarm as tuai manifested by Mr. H'Cumbs. 'i'.io clause would not bo used to iiiu detriment of Labour. "• Mr. M'Combs: It will create that impression. Mr. Massey: "The clause will not create that impression, but if seems to me that eomo of Hie statements made by tho honourable member will create that impression, in England, he continued, there was national service, aim women wore being paid' Jour times as much as ever before. There was bo hardship. If things did not get much worse than they were in New Zealand there was enough legislation already. But there might be. need for a higher degree of organisation. It was really wonderful that wo had succeeded in keeping up production while 100,000 men were out of the country. We would liavo to increuso our reinforcements and keep up our production, and if these tilings were to lie done tho best use must be made of available labour. More use woulcl have to be made of women's work. Non-es-sential industries might have to be restricted or closed down to free the employees for more essential work. But it must not be supposed that tho Government would allow tho Act to be used tor private gnin. Nothing of the sort was contemplated. Mr. Forbes: Why not strike "private employer" out? Mr. Massey: "But we may hnvo to take men away from a private employer, and we can't do that unless you allow tho word to stand." He went on to' say that tho scheme woulyl have to be well

controlled. It could not bo mismanaged. He had been asked what Minister would take control. He had intended to offer to take control himself. One of his ideas was that. More the regulations were made—and they would have to 'bo drawn with care—a conference of representatives of organised labour and of Labour to us Consulted, Mr. Payne suggested that the clause stand over until next session.

The Prime Minister said that if t.w clause were allowed to stand over until nexc session no progress could be made with the organisation in the intervening six months.

Mr Payne: Haven't you, power una" la'st yeai's ActP „ Mr. Massey: No; not enough. Ho said that the. clause had been very carefully drafted. Ho would ask Labour members toi note that the clause would be useless without regulations, and, as he hod said, representatives of Labour would be consulted in the framing of the regulations in order that no hardship:, mHit bo inilicted. It seemed to him that this was a fair proposal, there was no intention of reducing wages, am, L would suggest Mm* the Arbitration Court wages should always be allowed. The scheme had not been iully developed but his idea was that tho control ot industries affected should be with the State It might not be possible to have this condition in every case, and tlierofore ho would make no promise to that effect. But ho would give an undertaking that no hardship would be allowed to result from the clause until the House had another, opportunity of considering it next session. He had given this very complete undertaking and in WW of this he thought the clause might be allowed to pass. , „ Mi G. Witty said that the Government should not compel labour only. There were men walking about m Iho .•ltics, living in retirement, who were lit to manage farms or runs, and they should be made to do it. Mr. Massey said that he thought the Government had power to make these men engage in useful work. However, ho would have the point looked into. He explained that the Efficiency Board s recommendation, which had in it the ideas which the clause was drawn to meet, had specifically stated that men must not bo taken from one industry and placed in another for private gain.

The Minister of Internal Affairs. The Hon. G, W. Kussell said that it might bo necessary to take a register of the men of this cetmtry in order to discover tho idle men who were employable. Then it would be possible to nave a more complete organisation of tho manhood of the country. An lion. iiiiMiibw: What about tin; women? llr. lintel I said that the woiiieu did not need c:>i!i;v;!lsii)ii. The Women's National Uiw.ve won!:! be alii' :» find 10.000 or !!O,OtM) women prepared to >(Jiil'iiiilie any work Ihr.f niv'iht b" asked if tln'in. The Bill was not aimed at or-K-'iiisctl laljoar. It was aimed rathe:' u!: the idle, there woro doctors in thiI'Diintry who w • i '." ■■■'" " '" '"* of ec->, frcquentim; ti. '.'M :..••..■.'-. c.d so o:i, ■vhilo there were pec '" lv : -~ foi- li.«i; of medical aid. ;i.i;: -Aku'A Ik; cimperipi'ttl, and made to work at their profession. lie ; :, :T:.- -t"l '.!':,( by rp:'',\v:isntion, youths at ;he .sclion!: 1 . J*ii;»lsi 1, • utilised for a few weeks nt harvest lime to save tho crops. Tho Minister of Education! No you don't I Tako tho grown men first

Hi', llussell said that ho did ' not think the taking of the youths from school for a few weeks would do them harm. Women might Bo employed at various kinds of work, on the railways, tor instance. Not Enthusiastic. The lion. A. T. Ngata said ho would vote tor ll ie clause, but without anv enthusiasm. He did not think that much would ho done under the scheme. Speaking, ior the farmers in his own district, lie would say that they did not want the sort of assistance they were likelv to get from a ] 0 t 0 f untrained youths'from, fj l - v * J, 1 ' 0 Napier High .School. He asked ilO Government who" would run this ?",'?'• , Hie Government luid not been ioi'tunato m finding men to run «» new businesses. The only man considered ht to ccntrol the expansion ot the Public Service due to the war was Mr. Triggs. The only man considered lit to control the purchase of supplies on behalf of the Imperial Government was 11 r. Triggs. The only man considered lit to reorganise and run the Public Trust Office was Sir. Triggs. He ventured lo say that the man to do this other job would be Mr. Triggs. Mr. Massey shook his head. Mr. Ngata: Then who is in the 1 mind of the Prime Minister if it is not Mr. Triggs ? Mr. Massey: I could find a dozen men ill the Public Service who could undertake this work. Mr. M'Combs's Amendment. Mr. M'Combs submitted the following proviso to the clause by way of amendment: "Provided always that any regulations made under this section shall contain a provision that no labour shall be .transferred from any trade, industry, or occupation to any other for the purpose of private gain." M". Massey said that the proviso would spoil the clause. He had given full undertakings to safeguard the workers, but a safeguard such as that proposed could bo better inserted in the regulations. Sir Joseph Ward said that the proviso would render the wholo clause inoperative. For instance, if a ship bearing coal from the State' mines arrived at a port and labour was needed to unload the coal, it would nol| be possible to divert men from -other work to this because it might be argued successfully that this would bring profit, to the

steamship owncV This sort of thing could be provided for by regulation. He was opposed to anyone making money ■ out of transferred Inborn- under this clause, but. that could be prevented by regulation. It cou.ld not be done properly by Mr. M'C'ombs's amendment, which would merely render the clause useless. The Clause Postponed. ■■ Spoakiil" lit 9 p.m. the Prime Minister iaid the Hill had been held up for four hours on the national service clause. The members who were opposing the clause, had been offered the most dennito assurances that the interests of the workers would be fu.Uy safeguard*.. A\oye thev prepared, in the lace 'of the scut naliiual situation, to lose the clause 11 vf'pnVno and Mr. M'Combs: Yes rather than accept it in its present f °Mr. Massey said there were only three members opposing the clause He wourt Sethi*proposal to them: if they won Z the clause through now he won undertake to give, them an, opportuneb to consider it again in October. In the meantime no injury would be done to anv group of workers. After the Labour members had spoken further, Mr. Massey said he would make a final offer. If members allowed the clause to go through, the regulations would.be drafted Then be would « | he put the safeguard desired by the T.abo members in the regulations or g e an assurance that the regulations v. -ox ild not come into operation until the House had an opportunity to consider the matter again. ,' ~ Mr. Pavne: That is reasonab.e. Mr. Anderson protested against the concession. The House should not be browbeaten by two or three members. Mr. Buick suggested that the clause should bo discussed on Monday, when there would be plenty of time. •Mr. M'Combs said he would not withdraw his amendment, as he wanted it on record. He would be prepared to take n. vote on it without further debate in view of Mr. Massey's assurance. Sir .Joseph Ward said the best course' would be to postpone the clause' now. and bring it down by Governor's Message as a separate Bill on Monday. Then there would be no.suggestion that members were being pushed bv Ministers owing to pressure, of time. 'Mr. Masscv: It is to be eKarly understood that the clause is not dropped. We arc going on with it. The clause was struck out of the Bill.