FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 133, 22 February 1918, Page 6

FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE

CASE AGAINST THE BOARD

SECOND DIVISION LEAGUE .AND THE

MINISTER

SOME PLAIN TALK

The Second Division Leaguo, which recently has been criticising adversely the work of the Financial Assistance Board, waited upon, the Minister yesterday to state the case against the board.

Mr. Armstrong said that the deputation had come to meet the-Minister in consequence of representations made to tho league in connection with the decisions of tho Financial Assistance Board. It wished to mention also tho question of separation allowance and Borne other matters affectiug the homes and the dependants of tho soldiers. The leaguo had secured particulars of the decisions of the Financial Assistance Board in a number of cases, as already published in the newspapers. Tho league did not,ask merely forjihfl remedying of grievances in these particular cases. It wanted the system unproved, and it quoted the cases as proof of the justice of the- protest it was making against the present system. It would supply names' and other details in order that the Minister might make tho investigation he had promised already. He hoped that no reservist or soldier would suffer as a result of his caso being quoted. Sir James Allen: There will be no victimisation of any man. We want to get at the truth. An Assurance Asked. Mr. Armstrong said that the Second Division Leaguo as <v body, had supported the Government in prosecuting the war. It had held all its meetings and discussions in the' open, and it intended to continue to play the game, tie wished to ask on behalf of the league for a fairly definite assurance from the Minister, that the grievances to bo mentioned would be remedied. There was-very great anxiety among Second Division men throughout New Zealand as a result of the experienco of those who had already had occasion to apply to the Financial Assistance Board for help, and if the deputation could take away with it something more than an assurance that the matters raised would receive careful consideration the confidence that had been sadly shaken would be iu a measure restored. The deputation wanted the Minister to lay down principles that would make it unnecessary for soldiers and their dependants to fight for recognition of their just claims. About, a Letter. Referring to the payment of insurance premiums, Mr. Armstrong said that the Minister, in a letter to the league, had stated that the board would be prepared to consider the payment of premiums and war loading on new policies up to £200. But the board had stated, in refusing the applications of reservists for the payment of premiums in such cases, that it had no authority to pay' premiums on any but existing policies. Sir James Allen: Can you produce any such letter? Mr. Armstrong: "I have it here, and will give it to you." The board has stated that anything in the nature of a new policy is a matter for the reservist, himself to meet. Th° men were not in a position to pay insurance premiums out of their military pay and allowances, and the attitude of the board meant that many wives were being required to live on Jess than 30s. a week. There was another point of importance. The board in some cases had made inquiries as to the ability oi the wives to earn money. The league considered that if a reservist had been able to maintain a home anil keep his wife in an ordinary decent way before enlistment, the wife should_not be expected to go to work while he was serving his country at the front. The league had suggested the reconstitution of the board and the establishment of district boards in order that claims for financial assistance might be dealt with exhaustively at places where the applicants- could appear personally. Home Service Men. Referring to the payment of separation allowance to home service men, Mr. Armstrong said the Defence , Department ought to discriminate betwen men who lived in their own homes and men who were actually separated from their families.

After some further discussion as to separation allowances, Mr Armstrong quoted the Hansard report of a statement made by the Minister in the House of Representatives, to the effect that there would be no distinction between men of the home service branch and the foreign service branch in the matter of pay and allowances. Sir James-Allen: I am afraid that has had to be reconsidered. The matter has had to be in view of the injustices and anomalies that would have been created in Nat? Zealand. ' ...

Air. Armstrong: We think that it is a point for further reconsideration to remove the injustices that now exist. Sir James Allen 7 : You prove injustices and they will he reconsidered.

Discharges Refused,

Mr. Armstrong said it had been stated that home service men could get their discharges if they did not like the conditions. He quoted the case of a married man who had been refused his discharge. Sir James Allen said if a man volunteered for home service and was accepted it was reasonable to expect that he would remain in the service for a certain time. Men could not volunteer today and ask to be discharged tomorrow. Air. Armstrong said he quite agreed to that. The men should fulfil their obligations, but at tho same time the Defence Department should fulfil its obligations to them for the maintenance of their wives and children. Sir James Allen: That is not the question. . ■ Air. Armstrong: "It is a question that has been placed before the Defence Expenditure Commission by an officer who stated that his men wished to be relieved of service because they could not live on the present pay and allowances." in conclusion Mr. Armstrong said that the Second Division League wanted to feel absolutely confident that when the turn of the married men came the obligations :<>f the Government and the Defence Department to their wives and dependants would be fulfilled fully and without the necessity for outside pressure. ~.,.., Mr H F. Toogood said that the league was out solely to proteot the women and children. They felt, ho said, that there must be some hitch in the working of the linancial Assistance Board. Ho thought it was tiie opinion of the league that with the obligations placed upon him, the Jlinislei' had bficn unable to keep in close touch with the work as he would have liked to be able to do. There was another question with regard to the extra sixpence a dav which the Financial Assistance Board had been asking applicants to leave to their wives out o their pay, and this as a condition of the "ranting of financial assistance. He argued that this was very unfair to the married man, who should be alio ivcd enough to have a little nest-egg on his return to this country. .1 heir need was greater in this respect than that of the single men. Tho Financial Assistance Board was stepping

outside its proper limitations in making such conditions for the married men. The deputation wished to ask whether such action had had the Minister's sanction, or whether it had liis approval cow. Mr. C. 11. Chapman said that he had been, asked to make request that

tho question of tho allowances to be given to members of the Second Division should bo reopened as soon as Parliament met. He. also made an appeal for more liberality in regard to separation allowances for widowed mothers. MINISTEiiIN" REPLY . COMPLAINT oFuNFAIRKESS. The Minister said that lie was always glad to hear anything that the Second Division Leaguo had to say to him. Ho wished to give the league the assurance that the Government and the Minister of Defence were anxious to see that tho Financial Assistance Board dealt liberally with those who came before it for assistance, and he hoped that the board was doing this. He was bound to say that lie thought that tho league could have better served its purpose if it had come to him and told him of these specific cases, and allowed him to investigate them before making them public. It was not quite fair for the league to make charges against . the board without his having an opportunity of examining them and putting his side of the case, if there was another side, and lie had no doubt that there was. He would like the league to be more-fair in the future. He was always' willing to see members of the league, and he would invite them to come with their grievances. He would investigate them, and he would promise that if there should bo injustices he would do his best to rectify them. He did hope, however, that the league would play the game. Members of the deputation protested against the suggestion that they had done anything improper. The Minister said that he would not be able that day to say whether the decisions of the board in the cases cited were right in principle or not. Ho would have to have them fully examined. A Wrong Letter. Going on to dual with the other points raised, he spoke first of the letter that had gone out from the office of tho board. Ho was quite sure that the letter had been written under a misunderstanding, and he was very much astonished to see it.' the letter stated that the board had no authority to grant premiums for new insurance nolicies. The league knew that the board had this authority, because the league knew that such grants had been made. That was the answer to the letter, which had been misconciived- in some way. He would tell the deputation clearly and definitely that the board had power to grant premiums for new policies up to £200, with war loading on them. He said that the deputation had produced the letter' having the knowledge that in spito of the letter grants were being made for new policies. Did not the league know of cases i:i) which such grants had been made? A voice: Yes. The Minister: Then you produced the letter knowing that it had been wrongly drafted? Voices:. No, no. ' The Minister: Y'ou know that these grants for new policies of £200 are being made? Voices: No, sir, we d.o not. Tho Minister: Well, I tell you that the board has power to make theso grants for nojicies of £200. What more do you want? Voices: We want them to do it. They are not doing it. Mr. ,Toogoodl: Is not that letter written by tho secretary of the Financial Assistance Board?* The Minister: This letter seems to have been sent from the office of the board, but it has been sent under a misapprehension. The letter is wrong. Mr. Toogood: What are you going to do about it? Is he to go on being wrong? Tho Minister: No, it will be put right. ' . New Insurance Policies. Sir James Allen added that he had had inquiries made as to the policy of the board in dealing with these policies, and he was informed that the board would grant premiums for policies already taken out. If a man wished to take out a new policy for £200, he must do so at his own risk, and ho must take it out before ho-came to the board if lie wished to have any assistance from the board in the payment of premiums. Apparently tho board, according to his advice, would not decide the question beforehand of whether the policy was to be taken out. A voice: Absurd!

The Minister said that his main point was that the board certainly had power to grant . premiums and war loading for new policies in cases of hardship. Mr. Toogood: And doesn't do it._ The Minister: "There are cases in which the board did not pay the premiums, because the man was well able to do it himself."' He insisted that the board had the authority to do it, and that the, board did do it. He hoped that there would be no misunderstanding about that. A point had been made about the question of the wife going to work. He was informed that the board did not ask the wife whether she was going to work, and that the board never had done so. Air. Armstrong: It is implied in the questions that are asked. The Minister: I don't want to deal lv ii\i ''•'"-•licatiqns. I - want to deal with facta,. Three and Six a Day. The next point referred to by the Minister was that of the request made by the board to the applicant for assistance that he should leave. 3s. 6d. a day out of his pay to his wife. He wished to bo perfectly straight about this. He thought it was essential that a married man should leave 3s. 6d.' a day to bis wife. There were at least two kinds of married men.- There were married men who would not leave a penny to their wives if they could get out of it, and the Department had had dozens and dozens of experiences of them. It had been decided that the amount that a married man should leave to his wife before he asked for assistance should bo 3s. (}d. a day He thought that this was a reasonable amount. He was satisfied that a married man would not need more than Is. Gd. a day at the front. Mr. Armstrong: The single men are allowed 2s. a day.

The Minister: "But the single man has not got to provide for a wrfo." It was suggested, he continued, that if the men were left with more than Is. 6d. a.daV they might have a nest-egg on their return. It might be true in somo instances that if a man wore allowed to keep more than Is. Od. a day for himself he would save somo of it, but he ventured to say that in 90 per cent, of cases this would not he so. He knew from actual experience that the men spent every penny they could get, and that if they could possibly du so some of them would overdraw their pay. Could not the married men trust their wives to save up the nest-egg? Home-service Men. Sir James Allen dealt with the claims made on behalf of the homc-servico men. He said that it could not be claimed that those men wero in the same position as tho men who had to go to light. The home-service man volunteered for service; tho fighting.man was compelled to go. This was the great difference between the two. One. of the difficulties he had to deal with

regarding home-service men was that he was receiving complaints that they were receiving too much. Mr. Armstrong: That may be in some instances. The Minister said that the men working alongside the home-service men said that the men in receipt of military pay were getting more than they were for the same work. Whatever h<' may have said in the House on this point he was bound to say that when the question came to be examined the caso of these men had to oe reconsidered, because of the great anomalies that would have been created by giving the men the same allowance rates as men of the forces abroad. Justification of the Board. The matter of increasing the allowances was one for Parliament to deal with; He wished to say, however, that the Financial Assistance Regulations were brought into existence to remove some of the anomalies bound to be created when the Second Division men. were to be called into camp. He wished tho leaiuio to believe that he was honest in ln6 endeavour to do this because the scheme was purely his own creation, the object of it being to provide a means by which help could be given to those most needing it. Tho pay of the soldier was admittedly not based on the standard earnings of the men in middle circumstances but on the earnings of those less well off in the world, and the financial assistance scheme was introduced to do away with some of the inequities that would bo caused. So far as he knew, the board was sympathetic, and it had been working well. He was quite propared to reconsider at any time the constitution of the board, but he was not admitting for a i.:oment that it was not doing its work well. His opinion was that the board was a splendid one, and that it was doing thoroughly well. Ho thought that most of the. cases cited could be explained. He knew the board was sympathetic, because he was in touch with them, and he knew what they were doing. He regretted that a note of want of confidence in the board should be sounded. No More Boards. Mr. Toogood: Will you increase the number of boards? The Minister: No; I can't promise that. ['can't promise to constitute boards all over the country, and for the very solid reason that this would create variety of judgment and grave anomalies., A "Typical Case." The Minister announced that he had traced one of the cases that had been submitted. "This case,"''ne said, "nas been identified by the hoard as that of ah accountant earning before lie joined the forces £239 a year. The board have granted this man's wife on ac,count of rent £52 a year; they have granted life insurance premium to the amount of £28 10s. 2d.; National Provident Fund payments, £1 195.; lodge fees, £1 Is.; and fire insurance, £8 4s. Bd. Allowing for the concessions in payments to the National Provident Fund, the State really found for this man £88 a year, bringing his total income up to i:'2'Si 16s. 10d., as against his pre-war earnings of £239. Mr. Armstrong: Hear, hear. Why don't you treat other cases in the same way? The Minister: This case was brought forward as a grievance. Voices: No, no (and laughter). The Minister: But the public thought it was a grievance. , Mr. Armstrong: No; they know it was for the purpose of comparison, and they have known all along. This is the only case we have known in which the declared policy of the board has been followed. It was used by us for tho purpose of comparison, to show what the board could do if it liked. The Minister, in conclusion, said that he could assure the deputation of his sympathy where sympathy, was justifiable. There were cases in which attempts were made to exploit the Government, and in those cases it was his duty to protect the Government. (Hear, hear.) Ho promised to do all that he could to make the board a success, but he asked the league to come to him candidly with their grievances, in order that they might be rectified.

Replying to a question, Sir James Allen said that lie had been asked by the board for advice as ,to the amount of allotment an applicant for assistance should he required to. leave to his wife, and he 'had told the board that he thought reservists should be prepared to leave 3s. 6d. a day.