PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3190, 14 September 1917, Page 7

PARLIAMENT

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES AMENDMENT BILL SECOND READING DEBATE S'HE CALL ON MARRIED MEN "government will do its : duty. ,, ■■-. ■ "The. Legislative Council-met at .3.30 ,;' Ji.m. ■ JURIES ACT AMENDMENT. The Hon. 0. SAMUEL asked the ■ ■ leader of the Council (Sir Francis Bell) if he had been comictly reported as saying that, he and his colleagues in the ...Government supported the Juries Act Amendment Bill,- which in its'amended forni provides that in criminal cases, ether than capital cases, the verdict of ten. jurymen may be accepted as the Verdict of the, jury. I SIR FRANCIS -BELL said he had al- ) leady said that the Governmwit offered v j>o objection to the Bill, that he personV 'Jly-would, support it, and. that his col- . a3agues of the legal profession were quite r :ji favour of the principle of the Bill. It was not, usual to invite Cabinet to ronsider as a whole, and express an V opinion upon, .a private member's Bill, . especially where Ministers specially concerned, had decided to object to its pas- - 64ge ; beyond a certain stage. He gathered that the Press.generally had inferred

- (from the fact that the three legal mernt hers of the Government supported the ; principle of a.Bill, dealing with proce- ' eure in criminal cases) that .the Government had expressed its.fupport of the principle. He thought that the inference. . .was not far-fetched. ■ •After dealing with other matters.the ■'■Council adjourned at 3.25 p.m.'until 2.50 4>.m. to-day. : ■

THE HOUSE

■ The House of Representatives. sat at 2.80 p.m. ■'■■ . •.,,'■ '.'" "•■ The afternoon was occupied by a dis-tussion-regarding the report of the sArickland Post Office Commission. . SOLDIERS' VOTES., -The' Parliamentary Representation (Expetitionary Forces) Adjustment Bill was committed in the evening. Mr. A. W. Veitch (Wanganui) moved to amend a claiiE© with the object of bringing about a general election .'during the present year. . ■' .'..■". The/Prime Minister sa.id.he would have to raise a point. on. which the Speaker had ruled on the previous evening. A. clause involving a general election would be an appropriation clause and could be proposed, only by the Government. '■.■■•■,. Mr. Veitch said, he felt justified in bringing the matter forward. The.Prime .Minister was reported to have said on the previous evening that if members of the House wanted a general election, ho ■would do his best to , bring it about. Mr. Veitoh; hoped that (he House would be given an opportunity of voting on tho Subject. r . The Chairman ruled that tho amendment could not bo accepted. Mr. Massey: I have raised this point of order because it is a well-known.- xule that a private member may not move an appropriation clause. : The control of financial matters must rest with the: Government for the time being. - let me repeat what I'said yesterday with regard to a general election. If a member •will bring me a'reqnest signed by a majority of the members of this House in favour of- a general election this year I will do my best to bring.it about. -. The Bill was passed through Committee without amendment, read a third time and passed. ' •:- ALIENS' REGISTRATION.- .'. The Aliens' Eegietration Bill was coin-, jnitted. . ".. . . ".'. .. Mr. V. Eeed (Ba.y of Islands) movedan amendment requiring naturalised aliens'as well as -unnaturalised aliens to register. •' ' . ■ The Minister of Inteimal Affairs (Hon. G. "W. Russell) said he could not accept the amendment. ' Hβ already had records of persons who had been naturalised in New Zealand. • • •'■' Tho amendment was. rejected by 41 rotes to 18.- -. : . Mr. J. V. Brown (Napier)'moved to include the children of aliens in the registration scheme. Tha amendment was rejected on the Toicos. • ■ • " The Minister explained that although the BiJl as drafted covered all aliens, provision had been made for the exemption by regulation made by. Order,-in- '■ Council. •--The Government might find it desirable to confine , the operations of ■ the Bill later to enemy aliens. Mr.. C. A. Wilkinson (Egiriont) said it would not be safe to make exemptions.' Mr. G. V..-Pcarce. (Patea) said /there were.* 16,000,000 .. GernSans in . theUnited ; States, and. the- Government should, riot take power to. exempt. Americans. ■ . .

Mr. .T. M'Combs (I/yttelton) protested against, additional power, to make regula-

ttdns being placed iu iho hands of Iho Government.

Mr. A. Harris (Waileniata) moved to etriko. out tlio section authorising tho Government to make exemptions.

This ahiendment, alter discussion, was rejected by 38 voles lo 21.

Tho Hoii. G. W. Russell, replying lo suggestions that tho naturalisation law should bo made more stringent, said that the whole question would be dealt with after tho war. In the meantime no naturalisation, papers were being issued. 'J'hore was no light of naturalisation. Each case was considered in normal times, and it had been the rule iu the Internal Affaire Department that two years' residence should be insisted upon. He thought that seven, .years would bo a proper period of residence to fix. The Bill was reported fioia Committee with minor amendments. ' EXPEDITIONARY FORCES THE AMENDING BILL SIR JAMES ALLEN moved the second reading of the Expeditionary Forces Amondment Bill. He said the chief alteration, of the law proposed in the Bill was the exemption of clergy of all denominations. The religious bodies coveowd by the exemption, were named in the schedule. Members: "What about the Salvation Army and the Seventh Day Adveutiets ?" ' The Minister said every clergyman included in the list of officiating ministers under the Marriage Act was included. This provision covered the ministers of all sorts of religious organisation, including the Salvatiou Array, Spiritualists, Church of Christ, and Seventh Day Adventists. If tho Adventists could show that the clergy were in holy, orders, lie would be prepared to include them in f the schedule. The same offer applied to tho Salvation Army.' No other exemptions were made in the Bill. Experience in administering the Act had shown the advisability of exempting clergymen when desired. The clergy,had supplied t'leir quotas for service in the field, a.nd it was most important that the work of ihe Churches should ho maintained in New Zealand. He hoped no attempt would be made, to secure further exemptions. If hat was done, the door would' be opened .to a flood of exemptions that might irreok the Military Sorvice Act. No proposal was made for the conscription of'youths a?ed nineteen years.

Mr. WITTY miccarton): Ih.it was in thn original Bill. ' Sir .Tanies Allen: Yes, I brought it down myself. I do. not see the slightest rcnson myself, why youths' aged, nineteen years. ''. should ' not _ be taken. _ I was tiTider the impression that the r.ine-teen-year-old youths could not b<> taken as volunteers,' but we find that they can be accented. Thev will be accented as volunteers with the consent of .their parents." The explained tho provisions of the Bill. Pay and Allowances. Mr. H.. POLAND (Ohinerauri) 6aid that the Bill was not an important one. It merely introduced a few amendments which experience had proved wore neces. sary. But he regretted that the Minister had not made a statement regarding the pay and allowances for men of the Second Division. -Mr. Massey: It is coming down in l he next Bill. ' > Mr. Poland said that it should have been before the House that night. The First Division was now exhausted, and next month the first ballot of Second Division men would be taken. And not one word had been said by tho Minister as to the pay a.nd allowance's to be provided for married men. He had given notice of an amendment, which was that the pay and pensions should be-on a scale to be fixed by resolution of tho House ■ of. Representatives. Hβ did not think this would be a breach of the ruled of procedure regarding appropriation clauses. He knew that some people thought the demands ot tho Second Division League-were unreasonable, but was it right that the men who went to fight 6hould have to, leave their wive 3 and children in a. worse position than the wives and .children of the men vsho stayed at home? Evsry month 8000 names were drawn in the ballot, and of these 2000 men were "sent,to fight.for the other- 6000. Were the men sent to fight' to be worse treated than the men who, because, of physical defects, or because of their occupation, were to be left in security at homo? He did not suppose that all the , demands ot the Second' Division would be granted, but he did not thing those demands were so 'very unreasonable. It would be useless to tell the members of the House that the country could not 'atFord more than tho slight improvements in pay and pensions. Members had been deceived on this point in 1915, and had agreed to a Bill .providing pensions, on an absurdly low scale. That would not happen again. Sir Joseph Ward had shown that this country could afford all the money that would be necessary to satisfy all the demands of the Second Division. ■. If he could do anything he would not leave this House, if he had to stay till Christmas, until he had compelled the Government to deal fairly with these men. . Marist Brothers. . Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christchurch North) said tßat the member for Ohinemuri had voiced the' sentiment of a very large majority of the people, of tho county. He believed that the Defence Minister and the Government had the intention of making full provision for the dependants of married men, but it would be

kind'or to let tho married men know of it as soon as possible. There ought to bo no such long delay. Ho would opposo the Bill so long as it contained (lie clauses 'exempting from conscription the ministry of the various churches and exposing to consoriptioa tho members of iho Marist Religious Order. No truo comparison could bo made between the Stale school-master and tho Marist Brother. Theso men did not tako up teaching as an occupation at which lo earn their living. They took life-long vows of poverty and celibacy in order to instruct the children in their faith. In fact, they were clerics in everything but name. Ho was not personally in favour of exemption, of ministers of any church. He thought the churches should all be asked to furnish men for service, but care euould be exercised to ensure that the burden was not made too heavy. He was certainly not going to- be deterred by any "No Popery" cry from opposing injustice to a religious order, simply because it was a Catholic order. If tho concession wore not given it would make the conscription of members of tho Catholic religion a matter of extreme difficulty. He would in Committee move an amendment that it be a direction to the boards to exempt both State school teachers and denominational school teachers. The Prime Minister. The PBIMB MINISTER (the Bight Hon. 'W. F. Massey) said 'he had heard speeches that afternoon and that evening more calculated to stir up sectarian bitterness than any he had heard during the twenty-three years of his parliamentary life. The people of New Zealand ought tu be doing everything possible to avoid sectarian bitterness. The suggestion hRd been mado that the Government had broken faith with the Second Division. He had promised on behalf of the Government to make all reasonable provision for the wives and* families of the Second Division men. The promise would bo kept. But the Ministers had been required to do an enormous amount of work since he and the Finance Minister returned from London. The big Bills of the session had involved great labour, and Ministers had been .compelled to ideal with pressing, industrial problems. • The country had. been oa the verge of industrial trouble on several occasions during recent months. Ministers had to consider matters connected with the sale of produce and handle a mass of important and confidential matter.

The Government had not had time yet to complete the proposals in connection with the allowances ana pensions for tho Second Division men. He believed that the proposals would be dealt with, dur-ing-the coming week-end, and' placed before the House in the following week. Everything .that the Government could tlo for the men of the Second Division would be done. Proper and reasonable provision would be wade. He knew the position of the married men who were going'.to the front, leaving wives and children behind tl;em, and he and the other members of the Government would do their duty by those men. There would be no breach of faith.

The debate was adjourned on the motion of Mr. Q. J. Anderson. (Mataura), and tho House rose at 11.30 p.m.