EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3188, 12 September 1917, Page 9

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

THE AMENDING BILL EXEMPTION OF CLERGYMEN. _ The. Expeditionary I'orces. Amendment Bill was introduced by Yice'-Begal Mes--6a§lß JAMIiS 'ALLEN /.Minister of Defence) said that one of the lnaiti provisiona in. tho Bill' was that i'or the expmption of clergy. ■ Mr. Okey: All clergy? Of all ages? Sir James Allen: Yes. Mr. Okey: Why should not the young 'clergy go like other men? Sir James Allen: That is for the honourable member to discviis when wo tire in committee,. ,1 . Mr. Harris:. What about Marisl Brothers? .. Mr. Witty:' Isthere _ anything in it about nineteen-year-olds? Sir James "Allen said that there, was nothing in the Bill about the conscription of men .of nineteen' years of age, but youths of this age would be accepted if they volunteered. Many of these' men under twenty years of age had already gAne to tho front; and had done very .well. The 'exemption of clergy provided for those men in' holy orders. Jlv. Noswortlij:. What" about Marist Brothers?', , Sir James Allen: Thcy"f\vo not m holy . orders they are not regular ..ministers of religion." ■. He.added that there was a. iurther exemption to include all ministers authorised to conduct marriages. The operation of the Military Service Act was extended to natural born British subjects, exclusive of natives, residents of tho Cook Islands. These, men were not subjected to conscription, and there \vere certain men there who ought, .to go. Another clause defined more oxactly the offenco of employing a reservist not registered. Some doubt existed as to whether this offence was complete until the men had been in employment for seven days.' The now clause made; the offence complete as soon as tho contract of employment was made. This would stop defaulters from going and taking .work for six days in one place, and then going on to work for another .employer. Power was taken to call up 'without a. ballot,, the residue of a i.lass in the reserve. ' Under the present law the authorities had'to go through the formality of a ballot, and leave'one name undrawn. ' Mr. Witty: What-about those .who have been drawn in the ballot and who have' not answered tho call? •

"Sir'James'Allen: I will (leal villi them | on another occasion. -They are not ds-iitT with in this Bill. . I

Mr. Isitt: Are you taking power anywhere to coniiscato tho property of deserters ? Sir James Allen: "Not the property. 1 will couio to deserters presently." Be went on to explain that the ExpeJitionary Force would be subject to the provisions of the Army Act during Ihe period ol demobilisation—a very anxious period for everybody, he feared. The period of enlistment originally was lor the period of the war and six months thereafter, but it was improbable that after tlie war was over all our men would bo brought back to New Zealand within six months. The period of six months was extended to twelve months by the Bill, and he thought it was possible that they would not all be back in a year. Deserters were to be deprived of civil rights for ten years. As tu whether they should be deprived of their property— that was a question for rlio House to decide. The Government had not yet seen its way to do this. The clergy exempted, he said, would be those of the Church of England, Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, Methodists, C'ongregationalists, Baptists, Jewish rabbis, and Unitarians. A clause provided that men convicted for failure to enrol in the rtcervo would lie deemed-to have been called vp for service with the' Expeditionary Force. There had been a time limit within which informations might be laid fur future by reservists : to notify change of address, and the time limit was found insufficient.. It was now being abolished. Mr. Isitt asked that tho Bill should not be brought on for consideration for a day or two, as the contents were important. Sir James Allen said that the Bill would not cime on for second reading until Thursday at earliest. VOTES FOR SOLDIERS. MACHINERY • FOR DEFINING DISTRICTS. The Right Hon. AV. F. 11 ASSET moved ihe second reading of the Parliamentary Representation (Expeditionary Forces) Adjustment Bill. He said that the Bill involved no new principle, but was .merely a machinery Bill rendered necessary by the fact that a large number of our. fellow citizens v;ere out of New Zealand on active service. Provision had to he made for taking account in the readjustment of electoral boundaries by the commissioners rf the men 011 active service and the men iu the camps. The law did not allow of this being done at present without the amendment contained in the present Bill.

Mr. G. V. PEARGE (Patea) said lie could not see why men in camp should not.be allocated to the districts to which they actually belonged instead of their being allocated to the several districts according to populationSir. W; .4. VBITCH (Wanganui) asked whether it was intended that the men at the front should not have a vote, or whether it was the policy of the Government not to hold an election until after the •war. A Question of Residence. Mr. G. J. ANDERSON (Mataura) said that every soldier should be allotted' to the district in which he had resided before he left. Why not allofe each uan to the electorate in which lie had enlisted ?

Mr. Massey : There is no record of residence in many cases, The men have left simply the address of next-of-kin.

Mr. L. M. ISIT'l v (Christchurch North) said that if discretionary power was left to the commissioners an extraordinary position would be created.

Mr. A. HAU'RIS (Waitemata) said that 1200. men had gone to the Iront from Devonport, but it might be credited with only CtJO under the Bill. The effect would be to enlarge the electorate. ilr. Massey: .You forget the Military Service Act! All the men of military age are being called up. Mr. H. POLAND lOhinwnuri) said the Bill simply provided tor allocating a certain number of absent suTdiers to an electorate. The real difficulty would come later, in the allocation of names. If an !. electorate had sent 2001) men into camp and was allotted 1500, what would happen ! to the balance?

Mr. A. E. GLOVER (Auckland Central) said he would oppose the propositi to leave the allocation of votes to Hie discretion of the Boundaries Commissioners: Soldiers should vote in the districts to which they belonged. The commissioners must not dominate Parliament.

Air. C. J. PAI!R (Eden) said that the Bill did not strike at the rights'of the soldiers at all. The commissioners had to proceed .on the basis of population, as recorded by the census. Mr. Poland: Where shall a man vote? Air. Massey: Wherever he wants to. Mr. Parr said tbo Bill simply distributed figures iii order that the commissioners might map out boundaries. 'iW preparation of rolls would romc later, and the. soldiers would be placed on the rolls to which they belonged by right of residence. That would bo a matter for another Bill. • Mr. llassey, in reply, said that tho Hill was intended simply to give tho soldiers the opportunity of voting in the ovent. of an election taking placn before tho close of the war. If the Bill vas not passed, the men , in the military camps won id have to be allocated to the electorates in which tho camps were nettled. The result would he to disturb boundaries all over New Zealand. 'I lie question of how the men at the front would vote would be considered later. The 1911 arrangement of voting for party had not proved satisfactory, and he believed that the votes should be cast for individuals. Every soldier would be given the chance of voting for the candidate of his choice in tlio electorate in which he had resided immediately before enlistment. The . compulsory system had

adjusted the balance of recruiting, since tho quotas had been based on tho number of men available in each district. No district had sent substantially morn recruits in proportion to population than another district. The Bill <did nothing more than jirovido machinery for tho defining of districts. Tho Bill was read a second time. REGISTRATION OF ALIENS THE ENEMY IN OUR MIDST DIFFICULTIES OF THE GOVERNMENT. Tho Hon. G. W. RUSSELL moved the second reading of the Registration of Aliens Bill. He said that a very great deal of trouble liad been caused in ,the United Kingdom by spies. Tho Imperial authorities had suggested, therefore, that the laws governing aliens throughout the Empire should be overhauled. The Bill applied to all unnaturalised aliens over fifteen years of age. Every person resident in New Zealand who was not a British subject would bo required to register and give full particulars to the registration officers. Aliens landing in tlie country would bo required to hand in their papers before they left the vessel. Dr. Thacker: Why not 6top them altogether? We dp not want them.

Mr. Russell said the Bill applied to the citizens of friendly and neutral countries as well as enemy countries. New Zealand would not exclude all visitors from outside the Empire. Ho hoped that the Bill would operate agaiust enemy aliens after the war. The doors should not be opened again to the Germans.

Mr. Parr: Does the Bill apply to Americans?

Mr. Russell: It applies to all aliensall persons other than British subjects. Mr. Reed: A German spy would not come here as a German.

The Minister said (here had been 19,571 aliens resident in New Zealand at the time of the 1911 census.

Mr. C. H. POOLE (Auckland AVcst) said the Bill would be welcomed by the majority of the people of New Zealand. Tho Minister would find that ho had an immense task in the northern districts of the Dominion, where hundreds of aiiens were buying land and hold lucrative positions. There was need for the registration of alien 6eamcn, who often were in a position to act as pilots in New Zealand ports.

Dr. A. JC. NEWMAN (Wellington. East) said tnere wero aliens holding goo"d positions in New Zealand, and who were hotly opposed to tho British Empire. They wanted Germany to win. Thare wero persons who legally wero British subjects, but were really half-breds, with sympathies for the enemy. These people ought to be put to work at military rates of pay.

Dr. Thacker: We will have to put you in tho National Government to stir them tip. Dr. Newman: There is enough German element in there now. The enemies 1 within the Dominion had been tolerated too long. >

Mr. G. V. PEARCE (Patea) said that aliens should not be allowed to own laud in Now Zealand until they had been resident here at least twenty vears. •Mr. A. HARMS (Waitemata) said that enemy aliens should be interned or set to work on useful labour at a price corresponding with that paid to our own soldiers. " Mr. J. V. BROWN (Napier) said that although he was glad the Bill had been introduced, the Bill was "no Bill at all." It was "all right as far as it went, but not half stringent enough." He agreed that the German prisoners here should not be treated quite ns well, but should be put tn useful work. They were living, lives of luxury on the islands—better than most,of cur own people. He did not suggest that we should treat them as badly as the Germans, were, treating our prisoners, but we should make them work. "And," he said, "after tho war is over let's bundle . all out of the country." The Dalmatians. Mr. V. H. REED (Bay of Inlands) said that the introduction of tho Bill occasioned two surprises—one that tho Bill had hot been introduced long ago and the other that the Bill was sucli a small attempt to deal with the matter. He. warned the Minister that it would be very difficult for tho Govern, nient to keep track of changes of address of Austrians in the north of Auckland. He did not say these men were disloyal, but they wero aliens, and they should bo watched. Ho. also advised tho Minister to require all reputed naturalised . persons to provo their natura-lisa-. tion papers. Some ' persons of alien descent were claiming to havs been born in the country. In the north some Croatian.* and Dalmatians were passing on naturalisation papers belonging to men who had left, the country. The word of these men was being taken, and the Bill should wash all these points up. Feeling in tho north was very strong against these men because they were left to do well for themselves, while our own young men were bejng conscripted and sent to the war. Even the aliens themselves wanted to be put on side.

The Government's Difficulties, SIR. JAMES ALLEN (Minister of Defence) said that under the law no men could be conscripted unless they wero natural-born British subjects.

Mr. Reed: You could conscript them if you altered tho law.

Sir James Allen: Would it be safe to alter tho law? 1 have had enough criticising from anti-German . leagues .and otner peoplo about sending men from New Zealand who were natural-born subjects, sons of aliens. , It .was said, lie continued,, that we should send rhe Dalmatians to help the Serbian Anuy. Wo cuuld not conscript them or compel tiiem to go. Tho proposal was made and agreed w by the Serbian Government that these men should go to serve in tho Serbian Army. But when it came io be reduced to practice the men would not go. They asked what their nay and pensions were going to bo, and the reply, was that they would get tho pay of tue Serbian soldier —about 3Jd. a day. This the men refused to accept, saying that they would go if given i\ew Zealand rate ol pay and pen-, sion, and the New Zealand Government could not agree to pay these rates to t'bem. He di(( not agree that these aliens ill ihe north were doing harm to this country. They were .working and . producing, and it was better lo let them go on working. What would be the use of interning them, and keeping them in idleness. Jlc was advised from Home that there was no precedent to work. There was power to make military prisoners of war work. Tho only power the Government had over civilian prisoners was to allow them to volunteer to' work. Lately a census was taken of the prisoners, asking them to volunteer, and about ninety men offered. These men were lo bo put on road work, but the winter came on, and they were not sent out to the road works, where they wero to have been employed. Wo liaci 110 military prisoners, and if wo had any such prisoners, and put them to work, wo should have to give them full civilian rates of pay. ' He deprecated all Lhe clamour for dealing more severely with prisoners. Thorc was a danger that such practices would lead to reprisals against our men in Germany. Too Much Lcniency. ll'r. G. WITTY (RiccarUm) upbraided the Government for lenient treatment of prisoners and other aliens. Mr. J. A. YOUNG (Waikalo) said that numbers of the Austrian* from tho north had drifted down to his district, and there was acuto feeling against them. In fact, it was causing an agitation, reflected partly in tho Second Division movement. He claimed that exotiicers and soldiers in the German or Austrian Army, of whom wo had interned several, should be treated as military piisoneis. (Wellington Suburbs)' said that the interned Germans wcro "being trc&lod isiv too well. Incj were very much better ofi than the men in tho training camps. He was in favour of making tbo Germans work; not one of them deserved any consideration. In Belgium and Franco they were dming decent women into slavery, and these women were not military prisoners. \\c were far too lenient in dealing with theso Germans, and this policy of lcniency would lie our undoing yet. ho surely as it was persisted in after the war, tho Germans) would nvoruomn us. I We should thrust them all out ot the I nnuntry.

The MINISTER OP INTERNAL AFFAIRS, in reply, said tho drastic proposals made by tho last speaker would probably produco retaliation of a vcry serious kind against New Zeahinders in Germany. All tho steps that had been taken' in connection with the treatment of interned enemies in New Zealand had been due largely to the recommendations of the Imeprial authorities, who had urged that care should bo taken not to give ground for reprisals. The policy of the Government was one of justice tempered with caution. Ministers did not wish to be unjust to men who were technically enomies owoing to the accident of birth. These men might .be entirely loyal. He agreed that naturalisation should be made more difficult to nblain than it had been before tlie w:|r. Tlie first-class prisoners wero beiug treated well, but they comprised (no German Governor of -Samoa, Hie Chief Justice, and the members of their stall, and the Imperial Government had directed that they shonild be acrorded the treatment due to their rank. The treatment of Dalmatians had received most careful consideration from the Government. There liad been a wonderful change of attitude towards those men as soon as the Government proposed to remove them away from the North Auckland district. The local people discovered then that the Dalmatians could not ensily be spared. The conscription of aliens was out of the question. Tho New Zealand soldiers would not accept these men as comrades even if the legal difficulties could be removed. Tho Bill was read a second time. The House adjourned af 11.50 p a 'n.