PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3185, 8 September 1917, Page 8

PARLIAMENT

FINANCE BILL IN UPPER HOUSE MEASURE PUT THROUGH ALL STAGES ESTIMATES UNDER WAY The Speaker i.uok the chair at 2.30 p.m. >.iu. REVOCATION oi~NATURALISATION. The Revocation uf Naturalisation Bill ivas put through Committee, read a ;hird time, and passed. river" boards. . The Kiver Boards Amendment Bill was ;onsidered in Committee. Sir Francis Bell, answering a lU estion put by the Eon. 3 Birr said that the Bill applied only to rnei boards It would not affect country ouncHs whiclv happened to control riv>rs The remedv in the event of a council" failing to 'provide necessary river tvorks was for the people concerned to EO ne a ßil?Vae a put through Committee rift amendments suggested by the Statutes Kevision -.Joinnnttee, read a thud time, and passed. FINANCE BILL DEBATE ON SECOND READING The Finance Bill was received from the House of Representatives and read a BULL suggested that the Council should put the Bill through all its stages Hiat day. Ko amendment rf the Bill could be made by the Coun?1 and necessary amendment* could not be made by Governor's Message until the KlPhad been •ont to the Governor-Gen-:l'si"r William Hall-Jones said the pn> nosal was unreasonable. Membejs u<l Sot seen the Bill in its amended form. Sir IVancis Bell said members wei Kdl acquainted with tbo terms of he Bill They might talk about it foi ?week but thev woul dnot be ab oto titer ft word, He felt justified, thereoe in suggesting that tho Council -hould put tho Bill through without doar pa ticularly as the Bill contained liaises authorising companies, t rnstece. md societies to invest in the A\ar Loan Sir Francis 801 l then moved tho second reading of the Bill, and explained ita .aid that, ho « not in favour of tho tea t:,x. Uγ Oov"rnn ent was not able l» prevent Iho . ; s f the prices of commodities, and th.it eing \o it Bhould not. have dono an. - "hnS to add unnecessarily to the. co» if living. The money to be raised I>.V means of tho lea. tax could have been raised in other ways. AdSore diffloalt it would bo to reslTictiona-on what ho regnr (l .d .is ,u undesirable trade.. It would have lop bettor to have raused more "» n< ft ft °™ xtnusenienU in order to avo 1 the tc.i Iμ He regarded >Uio Hill on the Iholo ai en honest attempt lo conswip ivenlth. The Government was Liking ■ big share of ■the surplus wealth 11 «* not killing the.Booso the* laiJ the. Bode. PKK by taking the working cnpiUl ol ho country. To do that would lie l<: eck To creation of wealth require for future taxation, and lm»K «»»ut itaimatiou and iinemploymonl,. 'X Hon. 0 SAMUEL S au ho ..greec. with other critics of the B1 that i was a bad principle to free anj !-cl..ioi ftlfe cpmmunity from the payment ol %f ha,, nduceraents to Uio people who co.il I lend it. This emphaiifed he impoi tincß or maintßinins "«N»»to provision for tho fnrmin K antl busini-s----did not feel disposed to d.scnw ;i\ eB H Ho was not acquamled with ts; do a ? a P t«l in The tax. Ion!pro nosals were not equitable in all respecr* Tea who derived large incomes rnn Govornment stock wwo being pxemplcc what men /hould be compelled and v.'ha men should be left alone. The Council adjourned at r> p.m. mill 8.15 p.m.

Accumulated Funds. On the resumption of the debate, Sir Francis Bell said that, the reply to most o f the criticism levelled at the Budget was that the limes were not normal. Social conditions demanded special eJfort" The Government admitted/ that t was levying taxation, beyond actual eauUemeZ Ind felt that the interests oFFheState demanded the accumulation o monev against liabilities hat might have to be met later. The pi mg up ot in the Post Office Savings Bank ™ «ratifying as a proof of public prosrarity but from another point of yew be kept in a perfectly sound position The Government must provide a arge reserve in order to bo ready to meet demands that might be made after the vir The Government was satisfied that the provision that was being made was ne sh 33 \vUHam Hall-Jones: You have your E^s^-i^rt as net coming when the Government would "ive men its own -paper when they can e for their money. The issue of bank notes was limited still by the reserves held by «ie banks, so that the bank paper, although legal tender iu jar time, las not without a cash basis. That was a different matter from an unlimited issio State paper to meet Government obligations. The Governmen , m regardini the financial position, had to consider the possibility of a time coming before the close of the war *:hcn money couW not be raised at all. If that time cam" the possession of a large accumulated surplus in London., drawn from revenue, would be enormously valuable to the Dominion. The 2*atioiml Government could not be suspected ot actinain this matter from any selfish motive, lhe nolicv of retaining a larpe amount of monev in hand against fut'jrc emeiyences Ll been adopted bv the combined mrties for national ends, and it apnot unlilcelv that one of tho parties would have the spending of tho "'hot W Earnshaw: You are never goinc back to tho old order of things. Sir "Francis Pell: The present comnirt is that the National Government Bh\ll"iast until the end «r Hie war, and tWn we fibnll '"evert to tho former nosiiTn T don't know that there hns been an 7 alteration of the position. We hnve nn" Act rnininct into nneration Koverjiin? the constitution of this ChamVr wh,c i is to nneratP after an election which will be held to determine whirh part of he X'ltinnal Government sluill govern the o,nnt?v " The National Government in iiiv case could not- be suspected of any selfish motive in nilinr un public money for future use. "'he Jl misters v;ero maks n provision for their successors. So long as the war continued and the war

axation was maintained, there would be iurphiaes, which the Government would idd to the accumulated, funds. Ministers vere still exercising economy in all >ranches of tho Public Service. The Bill was put through Committee, .■cad a third time, and passed. The Council tdjom-ned at 8.50 p.m. nii;il Wednesday next. THE HOUSE The House met at 2.30 p.m. The Eight Hon. W. P. MASSEV (Prime Minister), gave notice* to move: "That in and after Monday, September 17, the House meet on. Mondays at 7.30 for the transaction of Government business. THE ESTIMATES The House wont into Committee of Supply on the Estimates at 3.10 p.m. On the Post and Telegraph vote, Mr. V. H. Heed asked the Postmaster General how he proposed to expend the £250,000 taken for telegraph and telephone extension. Ho had maue several applications for extensions of lines, and l'fld always been met with the reply that the Department could do nothing on account of the shortage of wire. Personally he was a little bit sceptical about shortage of wire.

Sir Joseph Ward: We have 100 tons of wire on order, and we have not had a toji of it. Part of this JSSO.OOO vill have to be used" to pay i'or this wire. The members for Wairarapa and llasterton. spoke of tho difficulty experienced Jioiv by mail contractors iu carrying on v owing to the high cost of petrol, tyres, and other motor accessories, 'lhey suggested that the Government should iurnish these supplies at a. low price, buying wholesale and distributing without profit. Sir Joseph "Ward said that tho matter was ono of the greatest difficulty, and had had consideration for some time. But the Government could not do what was suggested because of the impossibility of distributing these supplies to the contractors. _ Mr. T. 51. Wilford asked the Post-master-Keneral to establish more slot telephones in the Hutt district and m the city of WellinEton. The- same request was urged by Mr. E. A. AY right regarding his electorate. The Hon. K, H. Hhodes asked whether tho Minister thought of going on with the proposal to lay a telephone cable between the two islands. He realised that tho work could not bo done until a-.ter the war. . . Sir Joseph Ward BBid he was of opinion that a cable ought to be laid between, tho islands for telephone purposes, Mil ho hoped it would be possible to my the cable when the war was over. The Post and Telegraph vote vas passed shortly after 5 p.m., and tho Committee proceeded to discuss tho Kailway Estimates. The Railways.

Several members tried lo catch the Chairman's oje. Mr. Veitch was the fortunate one, and he attacked the liailway administration generally without being especially hitter against the General Manager. Dr. Thacker and Mr. Gilford both attacked Hip Department m rather a dilTerenl way, and they did not spare the General Manager. One of their complainte was that Mr. Hiley was worlnnK more for Ihe Defence Department tnan (lie Railway Department. So jinplonsajit was the talk generally that Mr. Wright rose and protested. . . , Mr J M. Dickson. asked the llimsler to teil the House when, he would re&toro some of the suburban services. Mr. Hornsby joined with Mr. VeitcU •iml Mr Wilford m drawing attention lo the number of leaving Uio service because of "pm-pneks.

General Manafler Defended. Tho Minister of Railways (Flon. \V. R. Homes) said that Bome.mcmbo.re of tho House bad suggested that.the beneral ■Manager of TJailvmys ought not to Iμ lent to "the Defence Department, and o would ho lent to any other Department hat required his assistance for special work. Ho had been brought to\ew Zealand for the general good of tho DoXn it required .killed nssietence. the men" who inld render that «»*"» could not reasonable bo withheld. Ihe Aion that the railway «nr.c«; L.d mrat would not bonr examination. The the war. iue f<^l , n,-,; r railwav toußhl jo be very proud of their mm a> system,

Railway Discontent. Mr Hemes said that lie would consult not * r—d rJMd to'cS Hack, and the Doof economy." Department toriS men W ere taKB, and the sole way ofreKng these men ™e to reduce the services,

Motor Services. l> A K Newman urged the Minister to give up frittering away money on brancV lines, and to adopt a pdicy ot establishing motor services for the, cai riage of goods and passengers on ™aAs. Severaf members snoke on the,subiirVnn railway question, and talked, a Sd deal also about the General ManagThe Hon. A. M. Myers said that he had been the Minister responsible for the -.ngagement of Mr. Hilej as General Manager. After ne had been in New Zealand for some time, ne presented to the Government a repoit on i tho-YniWnys seneruHy. If the. Government had been able to adopt this report and carry out the recommendations in ?C U sbmHd have linffVvery much improved railway .vetein. The'only reason win- they were not adopted was that the Government could not get the money at that time. He was sorry honourable members had feern fit to refer disparagingly to the services of Jfr. Hiley to the Defence Department. Those services had been of great :ise to the Defence Department, and he thought Mr. Hiley was to be commended for his patriotism.

Suburban Trains. •V specially urgent demand by Mr. Sidev that the Government should give answer to the request of the deputation of members of city and suburban electorates who waited upon him some weeks ago brought the Minister to his feet The Minister said that the matter had been considered by-Cabinet, and Cabinet had decided to , let matters remain as they were, especially in view of the very threatening position with regard to co.il supplies. Even if Cabinet were willing to do it, it would not be safe to increase the service. Indeed, it might be necessary to make a further curtailment. In regard to the demand for the late train on Friday instead of Satuid.iy ni"ht, it seemed a very simple thing to people who were not railway experts hat a Friday night tram should bo substituted for «. Saturday night tram. In the first place, if a Friday train wero v I on nstead of the Saturday night nig^ty^fe 0 Ot lK Serfffol, whether it is W Iho Rreatcsl number of users of, the

trains. Then, he went on to say, the Gov-1 ernment had to consider the men who worked on the trains. It was not reason, able to ask men to work on Friday nights late with a day's work ahead of them on Saturday, but the eamo did not apply to to tho Saturday night trains. Already the men were working long hours. And was it not possible that if the war went on. much longer the shops would have to give up the late night? He had fully expected that when the Railway Department curtailed services it ii-ould lead to curtailment of what was not r.bsolutely necessary business. Was it. necessary to keep the shops open on Friday night? On the other hand he had been asked by suburban people to slick to jiis guns, and not to put on a Friday night train, and not to take people into the cities to shop. He had been urged, also, to employ women on the irihrays. Ho was prepared to employ women when possible, but it was not possible to use women in this country as in England. Thero was 710 army of porters on the stations as in England. In our system porters had lo ael: as shunter?, as guards occasionally, and as general factotums on gpods,-trains. Suggestions were made that they should be used as ticket collectors. In the Old, Country the barrier system was general, and women could net as ticket collectors, but here it would not be possible to employ women to travel from end to end of the Main Trunk train to collect tickets. This was a man's work. Snmetimes tie guard had to deal with refractory passengers. A Suburban Trains Division. Mr. Wilford moved at 11.35 p.m. that the vote for working railways should be reduced by .fil, as an indication that the time had come when the suburban services should be resumed on Friday nights. He thought a. vote on the point would give the Government an idea of the opinion of the House. It would at least show if members would vote as they had spoken. . Mr. Reed said that he understood the whole question was before the Hallways Committee at the present time. Mr. Herri es: Only the Lyttelton quesMr. Harris said he felt strongly that the time had arrived for the partial reinstatement of the suburban services. The Hon. W. Eraser: It is a trap. Mr. Isitt protested warmly -that the amendment was no trap, but the expression of an oarnest opinion. The Government could have no idea of the strength of popular feeling on !;hie point. The motion for the reduction of the vote was rejected by 2i votes to 12. Mr. Wilford moved at. 11.50 to TCport progress. He said that the House had been considering the railway estimates since the afternoon, and he believed that an adjournment waa desirable in order that another opportunity might be taken of testing the feeling of members re <*nrding the-suburban services. The motion was rejected on the voices. The votn was passed, and the House rose at 0-7 a.m.