THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3172, 24 August 1917, Page 7

THE HOUSE

The House of' Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. ' ■ Two days' leave of absence was granted to Sir James Carroll.(Gisbovne). ■ Mr. F. MANDER (Marsrl-m) gave notice of the Whangarei Harbour Board Vesting Bill. FINANCIAL DEBATE SUPPLY OF REINFORCEMENTS .Mr. H. J. H. OKEY (Taranaki) resumed .the debate on the Financial State, ment. He congratulated New Zealand on its flourishing financial position at the'end of three years of war. He believed, the National Government had been a success, and the only Government that could have carried on during tho war. period. Discussing the question of man-power, he said he would like to know the number of men which New Zealand had promised to. send. There were limits to what i-he country could do, and.if the Minister could show that 1000 men a month would suffice, New Zealand could carry on until J .he end of the war. There had been wastage in men in England. Some five thousand men had been at one stage in England, in camp there, and it would have teen better for the Minister to leave these men on their farms, which he could have done by sending forward reinforcements systematically. He was opposed to bringing back the Main Body men. The men who would be brought back would not be. the. men who had been in tho trenches, but the men who had been in tho post office and in the camps. The boys' had been sent to win the war, and they should not be brought back until the war was' over. This was tho reason for which parents were giving their boys. Tf these boys knew tlat in order to bring them back married men would have to "be taken from their families and sent- to fight, not one of them would come back. He had never heard that they wished to come back.

Sir James Allen: I may tell tho honourable member that I did not accede to the request untal I had a letter from General Chaytor and another from General Godley asking me to bring somo of tho men home.

Mr. Okey said that the heavy taxation of unimproved value would prove unfair because of the failure of the Valuation Department to keep valuations up to date. He knew of a property in Hokianga district, which carried three and a ' half sheep to the acre, which was valued at £1 an acre. This was ridiculous, in view of the fact that such land in-other parts of New Zealand would bo valued at £30 an acre. The land tax also would be. heavy upon new settlers on unimproved farms, which were not yet in profit. He believed in -the income tax, but the taxing of companies as individu-als-would have the effect of paralysing industry by preventing enterprises from being undertaken by companies. He would vote for the tea tax, believing that the chief consumers of tea, the women of the country, would not object to the sacrifice.. Those honourable members who were objecting to the tax were playing to the gallery, and not considering the interests of tho country. He approved heartily of tho building up of the reserve funds in London. Local Industry. Mr. V. H. REED (Bay of Islauds) said that he proposed to charge the Government with neglecting all local industries except the primary industries. In Australia the policy of the Railways was to • assist these industries. Hero the policy was to show hostility to new industries.' Industries which he specially had in mind wore tho manufacture of rope, leather, soap, cement, and tinned fruits. These were industries in a big way already in New Zealand, and there wero small .industries, such as glass and paper-making; requiring development. He declared that the Railway Department had throttled tho fruit-canning industry as carried,on.at the-Frimley works. Australia assisted her industries through the Customs tariff.. The Commonwealth Gov-

eminent had a. way of altering tho tariff without making a noise. During a period of ten years Australia had increased its export trade to New Zealand twofold, arid had reduced its imports from New Zealand by 25 per cent. Mr. Reed went on to refer to the Irado bocweeu New Zealand and Australia in rope, leather, and Portland cement, and tho steps taken by tho Australian. Government to squeczo out New Zealand exports, whilo the. New Zealand Government had done practically nothing to counteract this policy. The Commonwealth looked upon New* Zealand as a placo to bo exploited, while Australia was to get all the plums. A few years ago Mr. F. M. B. Fisher arranged a good tariff with Australia, but it had never been put into operation. The Australians were quite satisfied with the existing stato of affairs, which was altogether in their favour, and- wo could not expect them to approach as. Wo must approach them. He hoped that as soon as the session was over tho Government would send the -Minister of Customs to Australia in order to rectify tho existing anomalies and frame a- reciprocal tariff. Mr. Eecd proceeded to express his approval of an increase in tho taxation on luxuries' and amusements. Ho also advocated concessions to men with largo families. Ho was in favour of the tax on tea. It- was, ho said, a peoploY tax, and it would havo tho effect of reminding tho peoplo as a wholo that wo were at war. Tho extravagance of tho peoplo at the present time, especially in tho towns, was appalling. It was not so noticeable in the; country. Mr.- Isitt interjected that it wa.s tho wealthy seotion of the population that was extravagant. "'You and I," ho said to Mr. Reed, "spend more m luxury ■ than would keep a. poor man's family.' Mr. Reed: Mr. Isitt may spend much in luxury.' I spend very littlo indeed in luxury. I have out it down to a minimum' rineo. tho war started. The country people aro doing this much moro than the townspeople.

Mr. Hindmarsh on "Proporty." Mr. A.' H. HINDMARSH (Wellington South) commenced his speech by a reference to rents in Wellington. In order to deal with this problem the Prime Minister had adopted tho English Act, but the 8 per cent, amendment which ho had introduced had inado the Act absolutely futile. It-was impossible to get fair 'valuations. High rents was causing much suffering in Wellington. Something should bo done to protect women whose husbands wero fighting at tho front from being mulct in increases ot Tent. The Prime Minister in mock heroics said ho could do nothing to brine aown the cost of living. Ho -was wedded to property Mr. Speaker- Tho honourable member must not impute improper motives. Mr. Hindmarsh.: I don't say it is improper to stand up for the rights of property. :' Mr. Speaker: I must be the judge of that,' Mr. Hindmarsh said it was a remarkable fact that men would risk their lives when they would not risk their property. It was because of this that he had felt compelled to vote for tho i\ per cent, loan. He. knew ihat this feeling was so ritrong, and that we must have tho money. When we were very hard up we must, borrow from tho. usurer. It was needless to expect that the Prime Minister, who would not do anything to keep down the rents in Wellington, would have the political backbone to use any coercion in order to 1 get money. The peoplo in Wellington could not afford to pay tho rents demanded. The war had done good to the wealthy people in Wellington, but to the poor it had actually done harm. . The .Prime Minister said tho existence of the' camps had done good to Wellington, but tho Prime Minister did not consider the common peoplo as anybody. The influx of peoplo into Wellington had been a <urse to the people in permanent residence here. He did not accept the Prime Minister's statement that he had done his best to promote the subdivision and sottlement of land. Mr. Massey had done no more than to follow along the lines of the policy of the Liberal Government, which had been a failure. And this the Prime Minister knew as well as anybody else. Ho deplored the buying up of all laud coming on to the market by wealthy meu. He was very sorry that the Government had no idea of devoting any of its surplus revenue to education, especially as the Prime Minister must know that tho money was so very badly needed for pur schools in New Zealand. Education was hated by very many peoplo in New Zea-' land, just as they bated the idea of tlrn condition of the masses being improved. Perhaps they feared that if the people were educated they would begin to discuss the land question, for instance! Reduced Reinforcements. Mr. W. H. FIELD (Otaki) said he had long advocated tho restriction of the amount of laud that might be held by any individual, whether freehold or leasehold. He felt that tho conditions created by the war were increasing tho necessity for some provision of this kind. It had been plain to him for a long timo past that Now Zealand had undertaken too' much in connection with reinforcements.' The limit of tho Dominion's capacity for providing men had been approached, and he' had asked tho Government to consider how far it was possible to go without gravely affecting the production of foodstuffs. He was gratified that tho Imperial Government had now agreed to a reduction of reinforcements. The war had. to bo won at any cost, .even if the , old men and the boys had to be sent, but he felt that New Zealand should not force the pace.. Tho dispatch of men for an indefinite period would mean financial and economic ruin; and ■ it was advisable to mitigate• a littlo caution with patriotism.; .....The.Government. . at present was taking, essential -workers, from, primary industries despite the fact that there were thousands of shirkers about the country. The proposal to enlist the nineteen-year-old boys had been properly dropped by the Government. The young fellows, speaking generally, had not the physical capacitv required for service in the trenches. He was by no means content with the Defence admistration. Waste -was going on and injustices were being committed. He hoped for a later opportunity to discuss the matter in detail. Taxation and Mortgages. Referring to taxation matters, Mr. Field said that the canons of sound taxation were equality, certainty, and ease. Equality of sacrifice was needed. It depended not on what a. man gave, but on what he had left after he had paid his taxation. Tho ideal of equality was not being fully realised by the proposals contained in the Budget. There must bo somo way of avoiding the hardship arising from tho taxation of mortgages. Many farmers were being penalised very, severely under tho present arrangement, since the man with a big mortgage and a small equity was taxed on the samo scale as the man who had no mortgage at all, and thercforo no interest to pay. A comparison showed, moreover, that tho professional man ■ in the country paid a smaller share of taxation than a farmer, who wa.s making a corresponding income. Mr. Field quoted cases in illustration of the difficulties of the farmers carrying mortgages, and said he hoped that tho provision the Minister of Finance had promised to mako in favour of the small farmer with a mortgage- would be extended to include the large, holders. Ho did not think the ''graduations in tho income tax should cease at 4:111(10 a year, especially in case of incomes mado in commerce. The man'who made his income from land paid also land taxes. He had heard of onu firm that had made .£25,000 out of war profits, and of another firm that had made ,11100,000 out of rebates on wool alone. The rato for these incomes should rise as high as 15s. in the pound. He believed that more taxation could and should be taken from tho very wealthy. Tie would advise t'ho Treasurer to get his Department -to evolve sonic simple nyslein . of accountkeeping wuilable Tor farmers. They found it difficult or impossible lo keep books, and they had to incur expense for accountants' and lawyers' lees. Flo would like to seo Iho duties on deceased persons' estates increased. tic urged Iho Government to give Hie. : neonie a direction as to whether it would bo wisn to go on making butter or lo devote their attention to the uimnliictiiro of cheese. , , Election Wanted. Mr. P. C. WEBB (Grey) said he wished Urn Mouse would combine to forco the Government to hold elections this year Ho expressed lno " op ™ tlla '- ,f this wei'b done the friends ol properly would bo drawn from offico and the Labour Partv would pet into power.. He considered that the lax on amusement ih-kets would be a burden on tho worker,

whose only pleasure was the picture show, and a pinpricking, vexatious tax likely to produce little revonno. /f Ho condemned tho tax ou tea as outrageous." Tho Governments handling of tho cost of living question had been Btipino and inefficient. New Zealand butter was selling at Is. per lb. in Sydney, but the local consumer had to pay is. 7d. or Is. Sd. The Butter Levy. Tho HON. W. D. S. MACDONALD (Minister of Agriculture) raid that the Putter levy would not amount in all to moro than a halfpenny per lb., and these would, therefore, bo a part of tho threotarthings levy paid back to the producers who paid it iu the first instance. He refuted again tho statement that the levy on butter-fat wa.s a tax. Tho pri'co of butter before the war was 11.2 U. per lb., and since tho war the larmcrs wero getting -its. a. hundredweight more, j Tho farmers had been on a very good wicket. He admitted that the dairy farmers earned their money, and 'he did not say that tho pre-war price wao a payable rate, but. tho fact remained that even after paying the butter levy tho farmers had done very well durmgi the war. Tho Jovy had been necessary tp provent the local price reaching lis. 6d. per lb. — Wheat and Meat. Tho' growers of wheat had not had a happy timo iu recent years, and he considered that in tho light of experience tfiey were patriotic to grow wheat even for the ss. lOd. per bushel promised by the Government. Tho_necessity for encouraging the production of wheat in New Zealand ought to be recognised by all. Tho Dominion could uot safely count on getting wheat from Australia or elsewhere. under war conditions, and the local farmers could not be expected to grow the wheat at a loss. The wool clip had been bought for Britain, and her Allies, and the farmers had not been unreasonable in asking for prices on a parity with the prices paid by Britain for wool bought in other countries. The Imperial Government had diverted portions of the wool to the United, States and Canada, and sold Tc at high prices.' It was not fair to say that the sheepfarmers had demanded the last farthing from Britain. With reference to meat, the Imperial Government had" at first given better terms to Australia than to New Zealand.' The Government had dono all it could to get the meat away, and also to placo tho meat In store at'tlfe disposal of local consumers. Any centre in the Dominion could get beef, mutton, or lamb from the stores at tho Imperial price, plus a small charge for delivery. If the meat was sold at lower prices serious loss would" be inflicted on merchants and firms, since the meat had been bought for export at high prices and was at present held by exporters who had paid various charges. _ The distribution of. the. .meat in Britain was to be directed by the Food Controller. If butchers failed to take advantage of the Government's offer, the next step would be to open Government meat shops, as had been done in Auckland. He was prepared to do that, but it was not easy to get suitable men to run such shops. Tho necessary arrangements could not be mado at short notice. Anti-"Shputing." Mr. C. PARATA (Southern Maori) said that the Government had failed to deal adequately with tho cost-of-living problem. He was sorry that stealthy efforts were being made to disturb national harmony in New Zealand. He referred to tho efforts of the Prohibitionists, who were not content .to accept the verdict of the people,- but wished to raise new issues and destroy the rights and privileges of their fellow-citizens. Ho did not approve of the anti-"shouting" law. He had not voted for it, and did not think he should be subject to it. Men who had voted for tho law and had then broken it should 1m deprived of their seats. Tho peoplo of New Zealand were fober, and he objected to the attempt to suggest that they were drunken, and to tho attack upon the harmony of the Dominion. Tho Prohibitionists' had actually attempted to upset tho National Government. Taxation. Mr. T. A. H. FIELD (Nelson) said that ono point in tho Budget had not been noted, and this was the enormous saving that was to bo mado by tho raising of the loans in New Zealand. Flotation expenses would mean an enormous sum saved, and in addition wo would havo the advantage of the interest on tho loan beiug distributed iu the Dominion. Ho would like to seo a bigger duty placed on motor-cars, and especially on American motor-cars. After the war English motor-cars would be produced jut lower prices, and it was not fair to allow the Now Zealand market to bo flooded with American cars. Also it was not good, business to spend a million or two on American cars in order to collect a few thousands in duty. He approved of the establishment of a reservo of two-millions for tho benefit of returned soldiers after the' war. The beer duty ought to have been increased. He thought the Government should have given tho people a better load in economy. He would like to see the Treasurer adopt tho Australian or the English method, preferably the Australian method, in the taxation of companies. If the income tax was to bo collected from educational trusts, somo of them would bo ruined. In his district there was a trust founded for educational purposes, and it had an income of .610,000 a year. If this trust had to pay income tax at tho rato of 7s. Gd. in tho pound tho income would-not'suffice, to carry out the objects for which the trust was established. He was .of opinion also that in ttie. assessment Of incomo tax sufficient allowance was' not made to such, ventures as mining' companies for wasting assets. .Eefcrring to General Godley, ho said that fiie Minister of Defence and the National Government could not neglect the indictment brought against him by the member for Eden. The recommendations for TTonours and decorations made by this General had given riso to keen dissatisfaction in the Armv, and this would strike at the very root of the efficiency dT riio Force. Everybody had the same opinion about Genernl Godley, and it was the 6ame opinion that was held by the soldiers at the front. He was universally disliked. Tho day would come when the history-of CTullipoli would be written. The greatest papers in England already described it as Britain's greatest military disaster, caused by ineptitude, incapacity, and neglect. For this ho could not blame General Godley. but tho opinion amonij the New Zealand men was That lie did not play tho game witli the troops at Gallipoh. It appeared to him that whilo we wished to condemn toe food profiteers, there were men who wero using the war va just as evil a way as the food profiteers—by trying to gain power by setting class against class. ~r. G. J. Anderson moved the adjournment of the debate, and the House rose at 11.35 p.m.