THE LIQUOR ISSUE

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3153, 3 August 1917, Page 7

THE LIQUOR ISSUE

MODERATE LEAGUE'S VIEWS " \. DEPUTATION TO THE PRIME MINISTER A deputation representing the conference of tho .Now Zealand Moderate League waited upon the Prime Minister (liiglit Hon. W.. I'. Massey) yesterday, in order to place beforo hiiu resolutions relating to the liquov trade. Tho resolutions criticised the recommendations of

tlio National . Efficiency Board with regard to the trade., urged the Government to set up a commission of inquiry into tho whole subject, and suggested that the hotels should be opened from 10 a.m. till G. 30 p.m. and from 7.30 p.m. till 10 p.m. • .

Mr. D.. M. Findlay, president of the Central Executive o£ the Moderate League, placed before the Prime Minister the resolutions adopted by. tho conference. He said that the leaguo had always advocated a -measure of restriction in tho hours for the sale of alcoholic liquor. But the leuguo felt entitled to protest against the report presented by the Efficiency' Board and against the manner in which that report had been, prepared. The did not question the sincerity ot the Commissioners, but they, were satisfied that the Commission-, ers had not approached the question in an unprejudiced manner or with judicial .minds. The considerations that . had weighed with the board in making very drastic .recommendations - did not appear to v bo disclosed in,the report. Apparently, the recommendations were offered on economic and industrial grounds., But surely Hie moderate public, whose rights were to be invaded, and whose liberties were .to be interfered with, were entitled to know something more regarding the basis of the recommendations. Tliero was a bald statement ia the report that conditional prohibition in Now Zpalaiid had shown the advisability of prohibition, and that experience in other countries had also done so. Ho challenged that statement. It had not been demonstrated that prohibition had been a success from tho economic or industrial point of view iu New Zealand or anywhere else. He had figures that showed clearly that prohibition, in Ashburton, for example, aTd not produco less drunkenness than licenfeo did in similar districts, that sly grog-selling was increased, and that crime was not decreased. He advanced those figures not as an argument' ia favour of tho existing slato of affairs, but simply as a reply to tho ex parte statement that conditional prohibition had been a success. The suggestion of the league was that thq hotel bars should not be opened until 10 o'clock in tha morning, that they 6hould be closed for.an hour.between 6.30 p.m. and 7.30 p.m., and then allowed to lemain open until:,lo p.m. These hours of salo would represent a sensible measure' of reform, and would remove some of the evils that were attributed to the liquor trade. Mr. Findlay emphasised tho importance of ending the continual agitation and unrest in connection with, tho liquor trade. Tho question had' been fought between' the two extreme parties, tho Trade and the Prohibitionists, ■ to tho discomfort and detriment' of the largest and most important party of all, the great moderate , party. ' That party was prepared now to tuake an effort to end the quarrel on a basis that would be just and satisfactory at all.' He denied that there was any justification at all. for thestatement that prohibition was needed in the interests of the soldiers, 'lho men J u the training camp? were not drinking to excess, as any impartial observor could see for himself. Six o'clock closing had been tried in Australia. The reports that had roache'd New Zealand through tho newspapers did not suggest that the venturo had been a success. There had been some redui/tion of hqrjrs of sale in Britain, but -not in the direction suggested in New Zealand. The licensed houses n Britain wero not shut during tho hours of relaxation. In conclusion, Mr. Findlay said that tho league, represented a very large and important section ot opinion in the Dominion, and he hoped that the Government would give duo weight to tho suggestions that had been put forward ill all sincerity. Ho felt sure that the Ministers would give th'o matter the;r judicial, impartial, and intelligent consideration. i Mr. William Thorne said that 6 o'clock' closing originally had been a Prohibition proposition, but its supporters had managed to get tho support of some people who were not Prohibition, ists. He was convinced that early closing would mean a great increase m slygrog selling, and would involve an.onorliious amount of inconvenionce to the public. Mr. A. L; D. Fraser said that the deputation . represented. very many thousands of people in Now Zealand. The Moderate ! League had interviewed Mr. Massey in 1915 in order to represent-its views, and the Prime Minister s reply had been that it would be undesirable to open up an inquiry, regarding tho licensing laws in war time, when the attention of the nation should be concentrated on the task of obtaining victory. But now a body created during the • absence of tho chief Ministers in London had conducted) a star chamber inquiry and had brought down a roport that was repugnant to • every right-thinking person in the.community. "The league had refused lo appear before tho Efficiency Board on the terms proposed .by that body. The report had been brought, down without full inquiry and without the evideiwo of men who should liavo been heard. The two Camp Qoinmandants, for example, had not lifcen heard. They had told a Parliamentary Committee that if six o'clock closing were enforced tliero must bo wet canteens in the caiiiips. Tho military evidence taken by the board had been that of men who in private life were Prohibitionists. He did not believe that the members of the National Ministry would do 'the nation the injustice of accepting such a recommendation, or that a referendum on a vital subject would bo "authorised in tho absence of the tens of thousands of men who wero fighting for their country. Tho Efficiency Board had quoted the example of Russia in abolishing vodka. Did New Zealand wish to follow the example of Russia, the first nation, to fail tho Allies? Franco had abolished absinthe, but its soldiers wero supplied with tho best of wines and beer. Tho world knew how well those 1 soldiers of France had fought. Australia had adopted early closing. It had also failed to keep up reinforcements and had refused conscription. New Zealand need not look to Australia for an example. Mr. H. B. Lusk supported the other speakers. The moderate section of the community, ho said, had a right to be heard oil a subject that concerned every section of the nation. The report of tho ■Efficiency. Board, had no judicial basis. It was simply a prohibition manifesto of a familiar kind. No evidence had been adduced to convince any reasonable man that early closing was necessary in tho interests of the soldiers. Tho men behaved well in New Zealand and everywhere else. Early closing would produce great difficulty with tho working men. Tho hours suggested by tho deputation represented a compromise which had been part of the .original platform of tho Moderate League. Ho hoped that Ministers would realise its strong points. Tho holding of a -referendum at tho present time obviously would not be desirable. The reasons advanced in favour of the postponement of the general election applied with even greater force to a referendum on the licensing question. Tho loaguo. urged strongly that the liceusiug question should not be submitted to the peoplo again until twelve months after tho closo of the war. T'ho question ought lo bo postponed until the men ot tho New Zealand Army were back in tho Dominion. Prime Minister's Reply. The Primo Minister, .replying, ' said that this was not the first deputation ho had received on this question of early closing. And having heard the views ot j ivhat might ho called tho two efcvomo parties, it was only right that lie should hear also the views of tho more moderate section of the community. For this rea6ontho deputation wero quite entitled to come to present their views, and ho had 1 listened to their speeches with interest and pleasure. Reference had been made to an opinion he had expressed when j tho Moderate League had waited upon j him two or three years ,aso, that a Royal I Commission should he set up to oxamino j the licensing laws of tho Dominion, Ho I

was in favour of tlio suggestion then made to him, and bo. had not changed his opinion in tho slightest. (Hear, hear.) He felt tlio, time had comp for inquiry, with a view to tho amendment of tho present system. But the reasons against tho setting up of tho commission then still held good. (Hoar, hear.) It would not bo proper ill the u:ar period to open up an inquiry into tho licensing laws, or into any other question on which there was such a strong difference of opinion amongst the people of the country. When tho amending Act which was the foundation of our present licensing system was placed upon thn Statute Book, in the early 'nineties, most peoplo thought the question had been settled, and that unrest would cense. But those peoplo had been disappointed. Hp believed, however, that as soon ts the war came to an end it would be tie duty of Parliament to face this question and deal with it in some satisfactory manner. He had his own opinions on tho subject, but ho did not think .this was quite the time to give expression to them. But he did -feel that it would.be in the interests of the people of the Dominion that this matter should bo placed in a more, satisfactory position.

The Government Responsible. Reference had been made to the Efficiency Board. It'was only right that ho shodld say that the Government had hn<l very great assistance from the El 5-. ciency Board, which the Government fully appreciated. Duo consideration would be given to tho recommendations of tlie board by tlio Government and by Parliament, But it must bo understood that responsibilit yfor legislation rested with the representatives of the people; and especially with the Government. While the opinions of the board would be considered, the legislation would bo framed in such a way as woul dbest give expression to tho ideas ofj tho Government for the good of the whole of the country. Ho could not go into details because lie thought it would be a very wrong thing for any Minister, and especially tho Prime Minister,- to commit the Government to any detail of legislation that might come down later. Whon the timo came a Bill would lie presented to Parliamnet, and the Bill would bo the answer to-the various requests -put forward.

About Hours. Ho had been interested in 6omo of the suggestions made, about hours. He did not known whether it would be possible to -give effect to what was called "a break." Ho had noted that in London these "breaks" were in operation, and it was just possible that something of the sort would, bo considered when the Bill was being framed. In London, he had noticed, hotel bars were Jc'e-pt open very mnoh later than in New- Zealand. Mr. Fraser: And on Sundays. i Mr. Masaey: I don't know the hours on Sundays, but J know tboy are open. It was scarcely necessary, he continued, for him to refer to tho conduct of our soldiers, of which some members of the deputation had spoken. A good deal that was unfair had been saia 011 this subject, especially fn Wellington. P IS own observation- was that tlio soldier. 1 ) of this country were a very sober, well-

behaved lot of men. t • 1 Tho early closing question would bo dealt with when lho Government financial proposals were out of the way. rhese must be dealt with first. The legislation on this liuor question would be framed not with tho object of meeting the views of either of the extreme parties, but in such a way that it would meet with the approval of people of the colntry.