Different Kinds 'of Objectors.

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3139, 18 July 1917, Page 6

Different Kinds 'of Objectors.

Mr. H. Holland spoke as representing the National Executive of the New /Sealand Labour Party. He asked bow many men. had been placed on. board two vessels, and what was going to happen to them in England. He knew the men, and Tie was sure they would never do violence to their conscience. Katker than tight they would be shot. .They wore not cowards, for to take up their attitude required more courage than to run with the crowd. It was bad enough to press these boys on to the ships, but it. was tho acme of cruelty to refuse to alow thoir mothers to see them before they went. The conscientious objector was not a wrongdoer. There.were three kinds of objectors-Socialists, Irish, and religious. During the first three centuries of our era no Christian would go to war against his principles, and if this were » now there would be no war. Hie B amo was true of Socialists. There wore Christians and Christians, and hMiali ß te and Socialists. So it was that on both sides there were Christians lighting Christians, and Socialists'fighting Socialists. And every Irishman must be an objector to military service in this war Sir James Allen: God bless my soil! The Irishmen have been some ot the best soldiers in this war. Mr. Holland: I know that. Sir James Allen: Give me an Insn Ijattalion-they will do anything. Mr. Holland: The Irishmen proved that when 3000 held up Djbhn agMnst 30,000 armed troops. He declared that the Irish were not British subjects by consent, but by force and that Ireland ■was held now. by a force of 190.000, a larger force than New Zealand could provide if her last man were taken, iven If he were a militarist he would not take ■up such an attitude as, had been taken rcp'in regard to the forcing away of men. Sir James Allen: Whom do you refer to? Mr. Holland: The conscripts yon are Bending away. Sir James Allen: I repudiate that statement. ! • Mr. Holland: If you go to. the camps •you will find the same feeling '.here. 'Sir James Allen: That is incorrect. - Mr. Holland's last protest was against ■what he termed tho torture of conscientious objectors.

Minister's Reply. Sir James Allen, replying, said tli.it ho • realised-that the problem of the religious and conscientious objector was a very difficult one. When the Bill was ■before Parliament he had done Ms best to put in a clause to provide for such objectors, but Parliament would not have it, and it had been very difficult. to secure even what was in the Act. Members of the deputation at once acquitted Sir James Allen of personal responsibility for the stato of the law. The Minister eaid that the Act represented the will of Parliament, and ho had to carry out the will of Parliament as justly and honestly as he. could. As to the religious objector there was a clause in the Act providing that if a man belonged to a certain denomination ; , whose tenets were against' military • service, he could be set to work under Government control, but not under the De- , fence Department. If men conscientiously objected to all military service they / could be put to non-combatant work. " Another Chance. He spoke with all earnestness when he said he did not wish to put any con- ■ scientious objector in gaol if he could possibly help it. In order to give these men another opportunity they had been shipped away to see if a change of circumstances would have any ciTect on them. They would have another chance of deciding whether they would do combatant or non-combatant work. Mr. Holland: I think you will hear from the Home Government. You are trying to unload them on the other fellow. The Minister said that the balloted men had behaved excellently. They were quieter nnd more subdued than some earlier drafts, and they probably had refrained from enlisting earlier because they had more responsibilities. But once in camp the balloted men were at keen on their duty as the men who had gone before them. He added that instructions had been given to camp commandants to give genuine conscientious objectors—as distinct from shirkers—non-combatant work. The total number of men in camp at present who were causing any trouble was not more than fifty.