SECOND DIVISION

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3138, 17 July 1917, Page 6

SECOND DIVISION

..REQUESTS OF THE LEAGUE MEDICAL EXAMINATION PFORE OR AFTER THE BALLOT? with the STAFF •- ' A The exocutiv 10 f i tho . Sec< ? n< ! Division League had an lnt . e "' le f w las .|. «; eniI >g with the Ministi « ' of DefGnc ® <" n A es Allen), and by . wrsngement with the Minister there we. a } so g r ®f. ent General Sir -Ah Jiobm ', Pi-geon-General Hena -® 130 ?'. Colonel Tate. The' \ ?^ eot of . the mooting was to discuss proposals and requests already made , " ie Minister by the Second Division L , . The Minister, introduci •!?'?? J ? matter of the deputation, th »t he ■understood that the princips that men of tho Second Dh 6houUl be examined befon • ! -V™} 6 called up in tho ballot. Ho h stated two of-tho reasons why . V" 3 coul<l not be done. One was that ;tli , not enough'medical men to carry work, and the other was that 1. examination did not stand for an j nite period, but only for about. .«»™e months. A man might be fit to-day 9™ unfit in three months. He suggested lc > the deputation that the classification the Second Division would to a vet.' large extent relieve them of their anx- | iety. Presently the rolls .would he complete, and every man in tho Second Division would be able to know with some ftsrree of accuracy when he would be Tffteiy to be called up to go into cainp. JTe was trying to let them have this information as soon as possible. He hoped verv much that the war might end tins Tear, but the prospects did irofr seen? at •all good for this at present. He was very anxious that the Second Division men would not have to go away from here at all. There were two other methods W which men might know how they stood: Most men knew of their own knowledge whether they were fit or not. If they did not know they; had the opportunity of going to a private medioa practitioner, who couli give them a fan idea of whether they were likely to bo accepted for military service. The Miniver that a special medical board

■was at present engaged in ® a ™'° medical history sheets of the,2s_oofl men .-previously rejected as unfit, pome ot these men wo-ild Tie required again to submit themselves for medica: examination; and it was hoped that a considerable Jiumber of them would be found to lie fit for service. If Doctors are Available. General Henderson made a statement to Hie deputation. He said that tho Muitnrv 'Medical Department wished to meet, the Second Divisioi League in. tlio best wav it could. He would be extremely ff iad to Tie able to give them some assurince that would he eatisfactory to them. The difficulty was that there were not the medical men available to do the ■work which would be involved. The reouest ns he understood it, was that the S Sewmd Division of .TOO.OOO men should be examined at once m order that the meihbers of it should lcnow whdther fhp.v were St or n °t- , , Mr. E. A; Armstrong; Examined class Henderson: Then you will allow us a little time between the classes? J£r. Armstrong: Wo ask that every class be examined a month before the h General Henderson: If that is what _ m . n{; v tta may be able to meet you. it depends oA fcbe British Medical Asso* ciation If they can let me have twenty men to act on;medical boards we may be able to manage it. ~, fj,„ Mr. Armstrong: I jmdei-stand. tne , vw+ors We offered to. be mobilised for any work which the military xeqwre th G?neral Henderson: That is a question jiow before tho Minister, I believe. If the British Medical Association * 1 !! 8"? xls the men, we may be able to let you have' the medical examination even two months before the ballot.-

Proposal for Earlier Ballots. Sir James Allen: The Adjutant-General tells me that this would make some dltficulties for Department. He says_that examination before the ballot |iU ; difficulties, and he suggests that v,e take ' the ballot a month ear . ller ''3? d +o^„ft^ inedical examination immediately after the ballot. I am not sure whetner the Government Statistician will be able to do this, but if it is possible we shall be not meet the case from the point of;jew of the Second Division, because if a ballot was taken a' man could be sent into camp at any time afterwards. This was urovided for in the Act. The Minister said that the I Government would not use power under the Act to_cal up Second Division men before the I'lit.t Division men had, all been taken General Henderson said that all that vra.9 possible was being dono to postpone the calling up of the Second Division. This was the object of there-examination of the men previously rejected from the jirst Division as unfit. Administrative Obstacles. Colonel -Tate (Adjutant-General) made a statement at the invitation of-the deputation. He said that from tne point ot view of his Department there were difficulties in the way of txamujing men before they were balloted. One of the chief difficulties would be in keeping a record of men medically examined, in order that these men could be identified when they ■were afterwards drawn in the ballot. - Under the present plan a 5 man was attested at thesame time that he was medically examined, and a proper record ot thonian was kept. In. order to do this work an efficient staff had to be kept for this special duty. If provision had to be made for this pre-ballot medical inspection, a similar record would have to be kept of every man by another stafi.

A Way Out. Ho belieyed that the Second Division men could get what, they wanted in another way if General Henderson could get the medical men for the extra boards to do medical examination. But he liad no doubt that tho only practical way in which it could be arranged was by advancing the ballotI—calling1 —calling the men. up by ballot as now and examining them after the ballot. It.-appeared that tho deputation had doubts about the military. (Laughter.) Perhaps those doubts were not without cause, but the" position of the Second Division'men-could be very easily and very completely safeguarded. At present a man drawn Jn the ballot and declared medically fit after examination was given a leavo pass v until tho date fixed for assembling UlO draft' to which he was to belong. After that he had tho right to lodge an appeal, and the Military Service Board had then the right to determine when ho should go into camp. Thero were two ways in which the position of the Second Division 111011 could be safeguarded—one was by making their leavo pass for a definite time ahead, and the other was by treating every Second Division man's case as a case on appeal. Supposing it should fall out that in the ordinary course tho first ballot of tho Second Division came in D'jo-ftnber, under his proposal the ballot would be taken in October or November. This would give everv man a month at least of extra notice before being called into camp, and the procedure would be just as safe for the men as -if they were examined first and balloted afterwards. And all difficulties would bn got over if the men vould become voluntary recruits. If

thev wisii'jl to <lo so the way was open to "them. (This was a proposal made by Colonel Tate to set over certain of the administrative troubles about records and si on.). . ;,fr. Armstrong: That is not a fair way of putting it to us. We are here as a section of the community which is favorable to universal volunteering, a sysrem bv vrhich the whole of the comEnunitv volunteers, for that after all is what conscription means. We are pot Trorrvinc: about' when wc shall be cn'iod tjp. ' Wo arc not quitters, and wo are sort associated with any body of quitters, v

But we do feel that a good deal may bo done to help us to get over these difficulties raised by Colonel Tate. Surgeon-General Henderson has said that lie may be able to arrange for tho medical examination part.

Sir James Allen: It depends on the British Medical Association.

Mr. Armstrong said he had a letter from the British Medical Association to £ho effect that that body was willing and anxious to assist the military authorities to carry out the medical examinations, and that tliey wore.very anxious to help the Second Division.

Uncertainty Bad for Business. He was Buro that the Defence authorities would be able to overcome tho difficulties whioli presented themselves. He knew that the league had worried the Minister a good deal about the matter,' but it was one of sucli vital importance to tho Second Division men that they felt they had to go 011 wit'h it. It affected not only the domestic concerns of tho men, but the business concerns 'of the whole country. The men of tho Second Division were very different from the men of the First Division. They were mostly men in more stable positions in life, and it would be a bad thing for industry if these men were to be hurried away -without their employers having sufficient timo to arrange to have their places filled. The case of the man who had a business of his own was evpn moro urgently demanding attention. If these men were not given timo they might have to get rid of their businesses at a great sacrifice. • The league was an organisation ou tto assist the Government in carrying out New Zealand's part in tho war. He drew the attention of the Minister to the fact that there had lately been established in Dnnedin another organisation, the object of which seemed to be to prevent the Government from sending away any more from New Zealand. With such ail aim, the Second Division League had no- sympathy at all.

Objection to Appeals. h ad been suggested that their objection •to the present system of sailing men '> at short notice could be got over by tai ing a ballot. earlier than would otlierwi se be necessary. Their objection to this was that if it should happen for any rei ison that, there was a shortage in reiiu forcements to be made up, tho Governs lent would have the right to call Tip the 1 nen already balloted to make i.p the shoi' tage.The.fr only recourse would t>e to tl e Military Service Boards, and the boar( Is had tajien up a very arbitrary attitude towards these applications for exti'a tim e. Thpj- appreciated that tliero were 1 -strong reasons for hard and fast rules. And in uny'case, what the members of the league wanted to avoid was being plated in, t,lie position of having to appeal .it all . (Hear, hear.)

Sir .Tames All'jn said tliat it f.eemed that they could get all they wanted by volunteering, a/id the deputation- appeared to be willing to do this. 3lr. Armstrong: We can't speak for the whole of t'je .Second Division. Surely,.'sir, yon do n't suggest.that we snould rel'ert again to the voluntary system? Wo think the (t by relaxing some of your ha'rd-and-fast rules you can trivo us th.'is pre-hall/it medical examination. In vi(-w of the offer of the B.M.A. to submit tf being ir.obiliswl, there should be no circuity r/bout the examination of the men.

General. Henderson: Provided we are al--lo'v=d to . call the mci nn in splays.

"Mr. A.Vfiistrong said that the proport ">pn of unfit men was a largo majority ot' the total, and 'the uncertainty wliicl> ivn v so bad for the communitv affected a t 'ery large number of men. The deputat.ii W would be very glad (o have a (Infinite 1 assuranc* that cten= would be taken to givt; effect to their wishes.

p-'oblem to be Reconsidered. Sir Ja lues Allen: "I am afraid I cannot give you that, but I can give you this assurance i: The Staff have heard what you have had-to say, and they will consider the whole problem, and will meet your wish «s as far as possible. I am anxious, to meet your wishes if it is !-«• all possible. ■" He added that he would ask the Sta. ff. to thrash out yiiis medical inspection qi lestion and let him know the result in the course of a few days. Mr. Armstr «ng: Having in m,ind that our request is for ' medical inspection before the bal lot, and not after It. Sir James Al ten: We can't accept your dictation in th e matter. Mr. Armstroi VT said that they had no wish to die. «te, but only to make the Minister qui, te certain of what they asked for. Another memb 8r of the deputation asked whether it v. r ould be made rermissnhle for men here oi the Second Division to volunteer ahead, for a man to volunteer to go in his o\ rn class. The Minister appeared to con fcider the proposal a reasonable one, and he promised that it would have conside: ration: