EARLY CLOSING

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3126, 3 July 1917, Page 6

EARLY CLOSING

THE IRREDUCIBLE MINIMUM DEPUTATION TO MR MASSEY THE MINISTER OF CUSTOMS ; A DELICATE QUESTION A deputation representing the Dominion National Convention of the New Zealand Alliance interviewed the Prime Minister yesterday to ; repeat the request that during the period of tho war hotel bars should be closed from li p.m. until 8 a.m. Hir Joseph Ward and Sir James Allen were also present, but Mir Joseph Ward had to leave before tho interview ended in order to keep another appointment, and Sir James Allen did not speak. The deputation was introduced by Jlr. C. H. Poole, .M.P.

■ Growing Sentiment for Reform. The Bey. B. S. Gray said.tTjat tho iequest for six o'clock closing had been made last year, and petitions signed by upwards of 100,000 people 'had been 'presented to the House. The Government had taken no satisfactory action, and this had caused very deep disappointment in the community. x Also the attitude of individual members of tho Cabinet was gravely disappointing to a groat many people. Since then evidence had beon accumulating to show that the opinion in favour of the reform had been growing very rapidly in strength, and this year tho House would receive petitions representing many more people than those presented last year. The following day petitions would be presented which would bring the total number of signatures to upwards of 120,000. Men who had never been associated in. any way with the Prohibition movement were demanding this reform on tho grounds ot economy and efficiency.

Waste in Beer. , Mr. Gray said that while there was difficulty in arranging for the carriage ot ordinary merchandise by train, or steamer, facilities were offered for the carriage of beer. To carry beer irom Dunedin 21,000 tons of space was reqmred in. a year, and presumably the same amount of space was required for tho return of the barrels. It was notorious that it had for many, months been difficult to get ordinary goods and merchandise carried by sea, and while this was so tho Government should not allow *ne shipping companies to _fill thoir space with beer. In view of the fact that the Trade was not only of no benefit to the country, but was rather distinctly an evil, and that 3| million pounds of sugar and 878,000 bushels of malt and barley wore used-he, would not say wasted-in tho manufacture of beer, ho thought the Government had ample reason on the ground of economy to restrict tho operations of tirade- As to efficiency, he did not contend that tho case against tho Trade was as etrong hero as in England, but he did .suggest tha? everything sho'uld be done to keep our soldiors in the highest stale of efficioncy-

The Soldier. Mr. Massey: Is it part of the object of the deputation to prevent soldiers from getting drink while they are m Ca Alr ? Gray said that tho deputation did no't want wet canteens. Experience led them to conclude that a sqMzer was never a better soldier for drink, and was very often a worse soldier. Uhey ™ro not asking for six oclock closing to .pievent soldiers from getting liquor. It was a pure accident that tho soldiers could not get. into, Wellington from the camps until after s.x o'clock, but.this should be no reason *why six ociock closing should be denied to the rest of New Zealand. If the Governments military advisers said that soldiers must get lk/uor, then the Government should ask their military advisers to arrange to let the soldiers get liquor- at 5.. W. Mr Massey shook his head. Mr Gray spoke of the postponing of the liquor, poll by tho lengthening of the life of Parliament, and suggested that the liquor poll might have been held even if the elections had to h= postponed Mr. Massey: Are you asking for-thati-Mr Gra\: No, but we will ask for it We will ask for anything that we think wr> oan'-sret. (Laughter.) . He went on to refer to the pnnlraM enjoyed by tho Trade, saying that tho Government was, by its failure to act allowing it to be stipiwsed that tho Trade was entrenched behind tho Government.

Nothing Loss Will Do. They were asking, for six o'clock clos■ing,and this was the absolute minimum that they would accept Thousands of people in Dunedin, where ho had had charge of the canvass for signatures ior fte petitions, had refused to. sign the ne. titions because they were m faroir of total prohibition for the war peiiod. Mr. Dawson: That is true all over the B tl "toy said that if the Government would not grant six o'clock closing, then tTey Mkcd V * referendum on the tlon There was a proposal bemg put forward that hotels shoufd >e ownedto certain hours during, the day-=aj _ from 11 till 2—and again m the evening. io this they, were definitely and absolutely opposed.. . ' . ' Packet Licenses. Mr Gray paid the deputation'asked for tht withdrawal of packet licenses on coastal steamers. Its was within Ins knowledge that on some of the Onion Company's "Ships liquor was sold whilethe ships were at ; the whart. . Mr. Messey: 1 don't think that is. lo °Ur Gray: "I know it « illegal." Mr. Gray' also that "shouting was allowed freely on these dups. „, o t 'Mr. Massey: There_.is tho auti- fcliout"I am glad you gave me the opportunity of saying., that the antiMioiitii"' law is a screaming iaice, the scorn and laughing stock of everybody who Roes into hotels. It "> »°t obseYvedin the cities, and in, the country it is wholly ignored. in Central Otaeo you can go through the whole ffitfas a man I know did recenUy and find 'shouting , going on openly everywhere." Eefemng again to the packet-boat licenses,-"he said that it was a fact that men were allowed to get liquor far too late into the night. Mts 'V. &. Atkinson said that among tho women of the country there was a great wave of feeling in favour ot roItriction of the liquor trade. •. Women had been joining the temperance organisations not in scores but in lundreds.

Legal Points. Mr' 1 S. Adams referred to a number of' new points. His first request was that "the Government should introduce legislation lo provide for the reduction of the majority required to carry a liquor poll from 60 to 55 per cent The view of tho Alliance- wm that Hie decision should be by a bare majority, but in .tho meantime tho reduction to 55 per cent, would be an invmovemeiit. He urged that a Bill to provide for this should bo introduced •is a Government measure, expressing tiic opinion that if introduced it would bo carried. He also asked that the time handicap be removed, and that the effect of -the poll should bo at once made to dperato. . Another point was as to the Vemoval of licenses from one place to another. A receut decision of the Appeal Court showed that it was still possible to allow a license to lapse, iu one place and to get another in place of it in a district many miles distant. An amendment made in tho Licensing Act bv the Finance Act of last session, to which his attention had just been drawn, seemed to repeal those clauses intended to prevent the establishment of breweries on the boundaries of no-license districts. He asked that this matter should receive attention.

The Minister of Customs. Mr clams referred to this rather delicate voiut: "A number of people feel ■nrotty ' strongly that the control of brewers' licenses ought not lo bo in the hands it is in at present. This is genuinely not intended as a. rcilcction nu the 'honourable goiitlonmn who now has charge of it, but his occupation in-

dieates at once that the control of theso licenses should bo "in other hands."

Mr. Massoy:'! ought to ask you if you know of anything wrong being donci .

Mr. , Adams: "I, am not going to suggest tliat."" Hewfilit on to say that ho Jiad lieard of cases where brewers' licenses liad been transferred from one person to smother, and kept alive without, actual brewing being carried on. Brewers' licenses; he lipid, were not properly transferable; they were privileges, and not property. The Key. J. Dawson said that there was a specific provision in the Licensing Act tliat no brewer could sit on a licensing committee. . The Minister'-of Customs had to sign brewers' licenses, and they thought that the specific reasons against brewers sitting on committees should hold good against Mr. Myers acting as Minister of Customs. Thero was a strong feeling against it.

MR. MASSEY'S REPLY AT3B-DICT OP THE PEOPLE. Mrs , Massey said he was pleased to acknowledge the reasonable and moderate manner and language in which the representations had teen made. Ho had been reminded that last year he had niado a remark referring to tho licensing question that the public had bad an opportunity of deitliug with it, and had declared in favour of Jetting the licenses remain. 3. rather unfair ■use had previously been made of this statement by taking it from its qualifying context. It was, however, only natural for a member of Parliament to accept the- , decision of the people as set tling the question for three .years. There was a feeling in the minds of a great many people that a contract had been entered into, that no alteration should be made in it, and that if ail alteration should be made there would be just claims for compensation. This was in his mind at the time ho made the statement, and he did not mind saying that it was in his mind now. Mr. Gray had said there was a feelin" that the liquor trade 'was sheltering behind Hie Government. This was not bo. In fact, there had been a eonsid-' erable improvement in tbo conduct of licensed housos and a reduction in the number of' convictions for drunkenness. Ho had been sorry to hear from Mr. Gray that ffie anti-treating legislation had failed. He had been away from New Zealand, but he had seen in tho English pa.pers and in the New Zealand papers that had reaohed Turn paragraphs to the effect that men who had broken tho law had been heavily fined. "

Mr. Gray: Tee, a very few. • Mr. Massoy said that in London ho; had met a gentleman who had money invested in the brewing: and hotel business in New Zealand, and this man had said that lie takings had gone down 30 per cent. He had no reason to think that this statement wes incoirect. He (Mr. Massey) thought the law had had an effect on the traffic. In this opinion he might be wrong, because he had had no opportunity of seeing tho effect: of the law. It certainly was intended to remedy an evil which the Government believed existed at the time.

Reforms Made. Mr. Massey went on to enumerate certain alterations in the liquor laws made by tie Government. Provision had been mado that intoxicating liquor should not be supplied by holders of any sort ot' licenses co uersonu. below the age of 21 years. Jir. Adams: That law is broken, sir.

Mr. Massey: It may be, but it is a fact tha't those charged with the administration of th'e law have had strict orders to enforce it. I know that Mr. Herdman lias been very strict in this matter. Another provision, was that no person, malo or female, under the age of 21 years, should be employed in any bar. In 1916 the law was amended .to provide that no woman could be served with liquor in a bar after C o'clock. The law, liad been altered .so that intoxicating liquors could not bo sokl to soldiers except for consumption on the premises. Intoxicating liquor could not legally be taken into camps or Troop trains. Another amendment in the lawAmade it possible for a license to be taken from a publican for misconduct in hie business Those provisions were extremely strict. These facts, he thought, spoke for themselves, and wero a complete answer to the people who said that the Government had done nothing to control the , liquor traffic. He had seen somethin" of the trade in England, and although tho hours were longer here, the law in New Zealand appeared to bo just as drastic and just ae well enforced as in England. With regard to anti-treatmg he would remind them that Mr. Hughes had actually suggested that an; anti-shouting law should'be introduced into AustraliaHe could not say definitely that no poll would be taken this year. It seemed probable that there would be no election and this,, wonld mean that there would be nVpoll, but if a general election became necessary a poll' would be taken in the usual way. -Their request for a special poll required a good deal of consideration, and" there was a good deal to be said on both sides. He could only assure the deputation that whatever might be said to the contrary the average member of Parliament and the average member of the Ministiy were just as anxious to promote the sobriety of the population as the average member of the public. ■ That might not be saving very much. There coud be no suggestion that it was not the desire ot Ministers to promote sobriety.

Our Soldiers' Fair Name. "In case there I may be any misunderstanding about our soldieTs," Mr. 'Massey said, "I may say that I haye seen a great deal of our soldiers in England m the last few months. Never a,day passed that I did not come into contact with New Zealand soldiers, and I can testify to their sobriety and good conduct; They are not all perfect. They aro not all plaster saints. We know that perfectly well. But I do say that in all that time, when 1 met thousands of them, I never sa,w a New Zealand soldier' inebriated. I never saw one of them in the' slightest degree affectod by liquoi in all that time. The Chief of Police of London told me that of all the Umpire's soldiers there were none who gave the police so little troublo and who behaved so well as the New Zealand soldiers. This is something of which we have all reason to bo proud." /. The Petition. With regard to the request for'early closing legislation, Mr. Massey continued, he could say to the deputation that the ' Government was not going to shirk the question. Cabinet had not yet considered it in any way. Naturally, it must be a policy matter, and he did not know a question on which tho House sot so excited as'on the liquor question. No Minister had any right to commit the Government to any course of action until Cabinet had dealt with it. Cabinet would have an opportunity of dealing with the question, and until that had been done ho could say nothing further. Then it would be , for Parliament to deal witii the question when the Bill came down, and any member could move any amendment he pleased. Eoplying to questions, Mr. Massey earn that the Bill could not come down nt onco, but it would come down in due course, and it would not be delayed until tho dying hours of tho .session. He would" not commit the Government to any measure providing for a refeVendum. This would also be a matter for consideration. His experience had been that the referendum was not satisfactory. He did not refer to the local option poll. That would stand. Hie opinion was, however, that the elected representatives of the people si ould carry the responsibility. •-