THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2841, 4 August 1916, Page 7

THE HOUSE

THE COST OF LIVING After The Dominion, went to press resterday morning the debato in the House of Eepresentatives upon tho cost'., of living and Mr. Brown's amendment expressing dissatisfaction with tho Government for having failed to (satisfactorily deal with tho cost of living was con. tinued. At 3.35 a.m. a division upon the amendment was taken, when it was defeated by 42 votes to 6. The Prime Minister, in replying, thanked Mr. Brown for having given the House the opportunity of expressing ita confidence in the National Government. The cost of living bubble had been pricked for this session at least. As to tho debate, he could only describo it as the most miserable debate that had ever taken, placo in the New Zealand Parliament, although therto were some 'creditable' exceptions. He said that, of course, had tho amendment been carried the Government could have only regarded it as an expression of want of confidence, but .the House had taken good, carp to see that it was not carried. The Government, he repeated, had dono_ a great deal in many ways to reduce th'e cost of living, and the Board of Trade, ho ha<l said in his speech early in the evening, had done and was doing good work. Ho replied to the criticisms of several'members regarding tho Government's action in respect to the purchase of wheat in Canada, and then referred to the outlook in the Dominion so far as our own production of wheat was concerned. Some people paid that we could depend upon Australia for our wheat, but this would be very unwise, as in the event of a severe drought Australia might require all lier own wheat, and wo would thus bo forced to obtain our supplies, if we did not produce enough for our requirements, from other countries .at a high rate. Ho thought it would bo a sorry day when. New Zealand ceased to produce wheat aud had to rely upon other countries to fill our requirements. If we did not grow wheat it would be flour, and not wheat, that would be iinpbrted, and this would have a very serious effect upon our milling industry and the employment of labour. An increase of 75 per cent, in tho cost of living had taken place in Great Britain, which was very much greater than the increaso in New Zealand., He quoted tho prices of many articles in London, and also tho •prices here to show the Dominion's favourable comparison with the Old Country.

The motion that tho report be laid on the table was carried.

The House -rose at 4.13 a.m.. this being the latest sitting of the session.

ELECTIONS POSTPONEMENT BILL. The House met again at 2.30 p.m. The Parliamentary Elections Postponement Bill was introduced by Governor's Message. Mr. Witty: Will the Prime Minister explain this self-preservation. Bill ?

The Bight Hon. W. P. MASSEl r said that tho Bill containod one important operative clau6e, the effect of which would be to postpone the next general election for one year. Tho reason for this proposal was that it was not considered tjesirablo that a general election should be held during tho war period, or that tho present state of affairs in tho politics of this country should be disturbed until the 60,000 men who had gono to tho war wero baclc in this country again. There were very few reasons against this, and vory many in favour of it.

Mr. Isitt: How ddes it affect the licensing poll? Mr, Massey: I take it tliat the licensing poll will be postponed also. Mr. Russell:' It is automatically postponed. Mr. Massey explained the other provisions in the Bill relating to the work of the Electoral Boundaries Commissioners. Tho effect of tlicso clauses was thnfc in . the allocation of representation to districts allowance should be made for the men absent on active service, bo that credit should be to a district for the men who are away fighting. The Bill was read a first timo. RAILWAY LIST. . The ITon. W. H. HEIUUKS, Minister of Railways, laid on. the table the D 3 List. KINEMA CENSORSHIP. Amendments made by-the Legislative Council in the Kinematograph Film Censorship Bill'were agreed to. THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER CONTROL ATTACKED MR. HERDMAN IN DEFENCE A debate on the Public Service Commissioners and their work occurred on -the presentation 'of tiro annual report ol tho Commissioner. Attacks on the Commissioner control of the service, were made by Mr. Wilford. He declared that the system hadfailed utterly- Tho expenditure was going up enormously, he said, and ho accused the administration of ineptitude and extravagance. The Hon. A. L. HERDMAN said he denied that the Commissioners' administration was a failure, or that it mot with general disapproval throughout the country. While it was true that some Civil Servants in Wellington were discontented, he was inclined to believe that Public Servants througout New Zealand were well satisfied with Commissioner control. They wero satisfied because they knew that they were getting fair treatment, and that they would not be overlooked when questions of promotion were being considered. They knew that when vacancies occurred they would have as much right and- as good a chance of having their cases considered as any Civil Servant in .Wellington, The statement was made that tha Publio Service Commissioners were influenced by Ministers of the , Crown. He gave that statement , an emphatic denial. Never since the Act came into operation had he heard it suggested that any Commissioner had been influenced in the slightest degree by any Minister of the Crown or any ; politician. And he thought it was bad tasto to suggest that the Publio Service Commissioner had acted in a special way because he had special political views. As a matter of fact, he had no idea what Mr. Robertson's political viqws' were. Mr. Webb: They change so often, according to whatever party is in power. Mr. Herdman: I don't think the honourable member should say that. It is not justified. It is bad taste. I might use a stronger expro3,*i»;n than that, but I do not propose to do it. The Increasing Cost. It was quite-true, as. was stated, that the cost of the Civil _ Servico was increasing. As the business of' the State increased more men had to be employed, and the State had to spend jlioi-o money on the services of the country. But it was not correct to say that because tho expenditure had gone up there had been extravagance. . On jthe contrary, there had been in some particulars very considerable savings. So long as the business of the country was increasing, so long as the Government in power was progressive, keeping pace with the development of the country and with modern ideas, then the staff must be increased, and the expenditure would bo inoreased likewise. But it should be remembered in quoting tlve salaries totals that a considerable proportion of the increased total in tho last few years was duo to tlio, absorption into the service permanently of many employees previously employed temporarily. Tha total 'this year had been swelled also by the cost of temporary assistance which had to be obtained on account of the war. Advantages of the System. Honourable gentlemen often, attempted to find fault with' tho administration of- the Commissioners, but nobody ever gave them credit for any advantages that the public servants enjoyed. Mr. Veitch: There are none. ' Mr. Herdman proceeded, to mention some of tho roforms introduce! by tho Commissioners. The principal reform was the classification of the service. For many years this had been advocated, and Dne ineffectual attempt had been made upon it, but it was left to the Commissioners to accomplish it. Now every Civil Servant knew what his position was. Salaries in different Departments had been equalised, and positions hail ■been valued. Every man knew now what his billet was worth, and what his increases would be, and knew also that his increases" would depend upon his own abilities—(Hear, hear)v-and not upon having friends who were politicians. This was - a most important thing ill any ■ Public Service. Another advantage which tho Public Scrvice enjoyed, but for which they gave nobody any credit, was the right of appeal. Under the Commissioner regime salaries had been increased. Before the Commissioners assumed control the average salary of men in the general division was ,£ll4 a yeai'; now it was £127. The average salary of the whole service w-as <£18S, but under the Commissioners' administration it had been increased to .£194 a year. Before their scheme of classification was accomplished a man could look for promotion only in his own Department. Now a wider field was open to him. Ho could be promoted from any Department to any other Department. Every vacancy was advertised. .Mr. Witty: And tho position is filled beforehand. ' Mr. Herdman: Oh, nonsense. I deny that absolutely. .... A Warning. Tho great bulk of our Public Servants are as satisfactory as any in the world, but there is a section of them who are doing nothing but agitating and stirring up strife. (Hear, hear.) The time will come in this country—and I want to speak quite plainly on this matterwhen the people of this country will have to determine whether tho Public Servico is going to run this country, or whether the people of New Zealand aro going to run the Public Service. Members of the Public Servico should recognise that they are servants of tho State, and that the Stato is not tho servant of the Public Service. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Tlerdman found fault with the action of tho Public Servico Association in criticising the Commissioners nt their dinner some timo ago. If tho Public Servants desired to hold an an. nual dinner and ask the Commissioner there, and then proceed to roundly abnso him it was tantamount to inviting a man to one's liouso and thon kicking him round the drawing-room. If they desired the Commissioner to be present at their animal dinners they should-at least treat him with courtesy. Privileges Granted. Many new privileges had beqn extended to the Public Service by the Commissioner. The regulations in regard to leave had been mado mor.e elastic, their working hours reducod from 39 to 39 per week, allowances mado for special duties and for work done in a sunerior position, permission extended to Publio Servalits to sit on public bodies, leavn of absence granted after 10 instead of 15 years' servico, special provision mado 'for watchmen and others who did not get Sunday leave, permission given for recreation leave' to accumulato for two years, and mon allowed to proceed to the iC2OO grade without oassing the

Senior Civil Service examination, instead of tho previous statutory limitation of .C2OO. These we: somo of tho improvements eil'octed by the Commissioner. It was an advantage to tho State to«lmve one man with two assistants controlling tho Public Service. Ho believed it was an advantage to tho Public Servants themselves, and he wns confident that it wns an ndvantage to tho Ministers of tho Crown. Ho believed that i\t one timo Ministers wcro charged "with the responsibility of quaking themselves all tho appointments. If that wero so, Ministers were now relieved of that duty, and tile worry and hardship involved in. constantly making appointments. Sir. "Witty: That does' not prevent them from interfering all tho same. Mr. Herdman: "I say that tho Public Sorvico Commission has not been interfered with, by any Ministers of the Crown." Ho admitted that tho Service had been expanded of late years, but would Mr. Wilford or Mr. Witty dare to get up in tho House and suggest that they should cut down wflgos or dismiss men? A Trying Tiniß. Since tho Act came into operation, and during its administration, we had been passing through a. timo of stress and a psriod of war. During the lost two years tho Sorvico had, to a certain extent, been disftrgiinised, aiid tho Commissioner and his assistants had had difficulties of an unusual nature to cope with, and much of the reform undertaken had been prevented because of tho unusual conditions prevailing in consequence of tho war. There were differences of opinion regarding this system, an(l he frankly admitted that thero wero certain amendments of the legislation required to make the Act work more smoothly. Ho was certain, from his experience of the operation of tho Act, that, despito the fact that they had some members of the Public Service who were.perpetually engineering..disseu. sion—u smalL section in Wellington who perhaps for political purposes, were doingthis—if tlioy were to take the opinion of tho Public Service throughout the Dominion, ihey would not advocate the repeal of the Public Service Act

Mr. Payno and others: Oh, yes, the> would.

Mr. ll'erdman: But they would, lie believed, ask that the system should be continued, that the Appeal Board should continue, and that the classification list should continue so that they might be under the control of an independent gentleman whose business it was to see that the interests of the -Public Service were looked after, and tho interests of the State conserved.

Tho report was tabled/and ordered to bo. printed.