PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2839, 2 August 1916, Page 7

PARLIAMENT

WAR REGULATIONS :..: p TEMPERANCE PARTY ,AND EARLY CLOSING . CENSORSHIP OF- FILMS t'r—."Xj. . ' .'■:.■■ ' i The ''Legislative Council -met at 2.30 '.. '5.m. THE DARDANELLES COMMISSION. ~, The Hon. A. T. MAGINNITY, in ac- • eordance with notice, asked the Loader of •the Council; "(1) Whether the appointment of the High Commissioner to the ■;' Dardanelles Commission was made with • the .consent and approval of tho Gov-' •ernment? (2) Will,the Government lay "upon the table of the Council any correspondence with the Imperial authorities which has taken place upon the aub•ject?" - ■ Mr. Magianity said that the people of the' Dominion- wero all more or less interested in the inquiry into the opera,- ; tions at the Dardanelles, and it was ■ felt that tho Dominion should have been :. : represented on the- Commission by: a Minister of the Crown. Two Ministers were going home shortly, and it was , expected that one or. both would havo been to the Commission. A .: few days ago it was reported that the i Prime Minister and the Australian Min-' ister of Defence -were to be appointed , to the Commission.. The next thing they ; heard was that.instead of these gentle- , men being placed on the Commission the High Commissioners for Australia and \ New Zealand had been appointed. This announcement had caused considerable ~ disappointment in. New Zealand, as it was felt that the matter was of such importance that no subordinate officer of the Crown should have been appointed to the Commission. He had no wish to reflect upon the character or ability ;: pf the High Commissioner, but tho inquiry was of such a- nature that the Dominion should have been represented by representatives in the high service of the State. The matter was one in which ' the services of the Prime Minister :•. Hon. J. T. Paul:. I rise to a point of order, Sir! Hon. O. SAMBBL' (the Acting-Speaker) said that in asking a question a member could not express any opinions. Mr.. Maginnity: I dosfro to ask the question, Sir. SIS FRANCIS BELL: My answer to both portions of the question is that the Government considers that at present snob, information cannot properly be given. The Council rose at 2.40, p.m. THE HOUSE The' Houso of Representatives met at • 2.80 p.m. .Mr. SPEAKER drew attention to mistakes in division; lists. The Hon. W. Fnasor had, he believed,* voted on the ' : motion to" report' progress on the War j Legislation Amendment; Bill tho previous [ night, but his name vras not recorded ! .in tha division list ( ; • Tho Hon. W r . FHA.SEB. said he had Toted "Aye." and wished to have his , name recorded on the list. Mr. SPEAKER pointed out also that • Mr. Parr was shown to hare voted. As Mr. Parr is absent from New Zea- ,- land, and did not vote, the list was altered accordingly. .Mr. J. V. BROWN said that by a mistake he had been forced to vote against Mr. Sidey's Daylight Saving clause-, in-the'Bill. He had given a pair to Mr, Coates for all Government busi--'/ness, and he'did not know at the time that Mr. Coates was , opposed to the clause. He learned this too late, after the doors were locked, and the teller for the "Noes" claimed his vote in accordance with the of the House.' He thought he ought to hare been allowed simply to pair. , -'The Right^Hon.'W^'F.'MASSEY said he was quite .sure the honourable member had not wilfully departed from the practice of the House, and that he was , quite blameless in tho matter. MILITARY PENSIONERS. - - Mr. A. E. GLOVEE (Auckknd Central) asked the Prime Minister if he would provide for military pensioners' receiving 'the MI military, pension'as well as the old age pension in accordance with a promise made by him at Auckland. . V The Bight Hon. W. ;F. MASSEY replied that he had not"made any' such promise. The matter bad been before Cabinet on several but for financial reasons tho request could not be • complied with. Mr. Glover: Could you give them £5 per annum? Mr. Massey: That again is a Cabinet , matter. .. - , , HUTT PARK BILL. Tho recommendation of the Local Bills Committee.on the HutOark Bill was that it should not be allowed to proceed. THE "WASHING-UP" BILL. ■ Consideration of tho Eesbrvesand Other Lands Disposal and Public Bodies nowering- Bill in Committee was resumed. Several postponed clauses wore considered. • There wero objections' to Clause 47, to empower the Palmerston North Borough' Council to borrow money to acquire an i abattoir, on the ground that it was not ... proposed that the council shuld take a poll, of the ratepayers.. The clause was earned, however. The clause dealing with Wellington , leases was also passed. Tho Prime Minis- , ter explained that the' Mayor and council did not. object to the clause, and tho Minister of Internal Affairs, replying to Dr. .Newman, said, that a commission would investigate the problem thoroughly in the recess, and that no further postponement would bo made. The Bill was reported with' amendments, read a third and passed. ; WAR REGULATIONS '- THIRD READING DEBATE TEMPERANCE PARTY AGGRIEVED When the House met at 7.30, tho At-toriiey-General formally moved tho third reading of the .War Regulations Bill. - •'.«vMr .L.ltf. ISITT (Chnstchurch NortW ;'-. said he desired to refer to the very cm- '.;-.. .barrassing position ho found himself an at the stage whon Sir Joseph Ward : in Committee said that 'a prominent •.member of the Temperance Party had .told him that if anti-shouting wore con- . ceded tho Temperance sentiment would be satisfied,' and would ask for nothing moro. Ho did not question' for one - jnoracit Sir Joseph Ward's bona fides. The difference betweon them was an unfortunate and honest misunderstanding, for: which ho himself took his full share of - responsibility, inasmuch as it was his duty when he spoko to him to havo safeguarded against misunderstanding by a direct statement that he could not tie' tho Temporance Party to. any compact whatever. He wished to omphasise tho point that this misunderstanding occurred some time ago, and the report of that misunderstanding could \ 'jot possibly be held responsible for this will, which was introduced into tho Houso on June 13. Up to that date tho fiovernment. was still untied, and tho provisions of the measure were still a matter for discussion. Directly tho Bill was introduced, he (Mr. Isitt) mado a short speech, in which ho said ho hoped the Government would take note of tho •magnificent effort of tho people of Now South Wales and enlarge the provisions of tho Bill by limiting tho hours for the salo of alcohol. This surely evidenced that he recognised no compact, and even supposing he had maO.e such a compact the Government must have recognised thrt ho had made it without any warrant or authority. In the interval between his conversation with Sir Josoph Ward and June 13, the Now Zealand Alliance approached the Prime Minister and urged six o'clock closing. On May 29 an Auckland deputation urged the Government iu the same direction. On June 7 he himself introduced a deputation to the Prime Minister, which deojared that nothing hss than six o'clock closing would satisfy tho Temperance sentiment of tho country, and urged the Prime Minister to give a referendum.

On Juno 3 a mass meeting in Christchurch was hold, and a 6iralkr resolution 'forwarded to the Prime Minister. It was not necessary to multiply evidence of this nature, for the Press of tho Dominion conveyed sufficient evidence of the demand for early closing. The Prime Minister on several occasions told members that the subject was beling considered by the M to Z Committee, and that tho subject would bo considered when that Committee's report was presented., This did not squaro with tho contention that the Government was committed to a compact with tho Temperance Party. If the Government felt that it was so bounds It was open to them to intimate to him that ho had misled them. "I have been very loyal to the National Government, and 1 moau. to continue to 1m loyal," said Mr. Isitt, "but that loyalty does not demand that I should DC made tho scapegoat for thorn in this matter, aiid 'with all courtesy I refuse to accept the position." ! Aggrieved with the Government. What inference, continued Mr. Isitt, did tho .National Government wish tho people to draw? Did they want the people to believe that if this misunderstanding had not occurred they would havo given more drastic legislation? Mo one could believe that the Government would over have given six o'clock closing. - Iho legislation in the Bill was there because, after long deliberation, the Government came to the conclusion that its provisions' wore the least quota of reform they' could dole out, in view of the demand of tho people for more drastio antiliquor <( wax measures. "We failed," ho said, 'to curry, nine o'clock closing "by "2V- Several 'members had expressed their intention of voting for nine to nine, but on the declaration of the Government that they would stand by the Bill, and nothing but tho Bull, they swung their vote out of loyalty to their leaders, • and consequently earned nothing! Now, I feel strongly aggrieved at this, and I will tell the Government frankly why I feel aggrieved. If tho Uibinet had been an ordinary party Government, I would still have thought that suoh action at each a timo would have /been an arbitrary action. But this is J»«* party Cabinet. This is a, National k a m et - ■If'Parwgovermnont prevailed, tho Temperance Party would neTer have promised to support -unreservedly n Cabmat which' included seven avowed- supporters of the trade, and only two men with Prohibition leanings. When the National Government was formed, I did not stop to inquire how they sympathised •with my views. I think the least the Uovernment could have done was to tell members that they were freo to follow then: owr convictions on this point but "f™ rf this, the Government made it absolutely, a Government measure, and the Bill was introduced by the Attorueyueneral in a speech as strongly onesided and as biased as it possibly could oe. Ip the three members of the Government who voted for nine o'clook closEtu^? 1 , 'I h6 Government will And that m what I have said I voioe tuo opinion not of extremists but of the hugo number of men and women of all political parties that the National Government is using ito position to stand as a protector between tho will of the people and the liquor trade." Grateful for Reform, i He was grateful to the Attorney-Gen-eral he added, for increasing the hold of the law upon the licensee who violated the provisions, of the ,law. This provision, however, would not mean tho destruction oi any license, for it could bo panted to someone else in the district. But m a number of cases the licensees were only figureheads. He thought it would uhelp towards the right conduct of houses that the Minister Should point out to Magistrates that where breaches occurred the licenses should to endorsed.. A Pyrrhic Victory. , The member for' Napier had said that he hoped that he (Mr. Isitt) would tako his licking like a man. This showed that the honourable member took a very Earrow of the case. If any licking had Leen administered to anybody it had been administered to the peoplo of the .Dominion,- who demanded a reduction of waste on liquor. The "victory" was not one in .which the liquor people could afford to exult. A certain renowned gen- ! eral had said: "One more victory of this kind, and I am undone." There was another adage, "Whom tho gods wish to destroy, they first make mad," and he had often had reason to be thankful for tho foolishness with which the Liquor Party fought its battles. In- this tight they had scored a momentary triumph, but to do so had flouted public opinion. It there was a party which could bear a taunt, of defeat, and could afford to wait for ultimate victory, it wag the Prohibition Party, for the growth of .Temperance teaching and Temperauce practices all .over the world had Leen very great in later years. He believed that one day the trafhc would be entirely destroyed. Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) said that there was no justification for the demand for early closing, on the grounds/either of economy or efficiency. To' Curtail Luxuries. Sir. E. NEWMAN (Eangitikei) said he agreed with much that had been said by both' speakers who had preceded him— speakers who held diametrically opposed views—but lie disagreed with, a great deal that both had said. The Bill .was an emergency war measure. He was not a Prohibitionist, nor was he interested in tha liquor trade, but as the war strain had intensified he had thought it was time for tho people to. reduce expenditure on luxuries. And he considered, that liquor was one of tho most obvious luxuries. Personally he could see no niore harm in a man taking a glass of wine than in taking a cup of tea, provided always that the man could afford to pay for it, and that he did not take it to. excess. 'The Attorney-General, in submitting the Bill to the House, had not approached tho subject with tlie judicial mind that was usually shown by him. Mr. Herdman had argued that a poll on the liquor question had been talton in war time. But could the honourable gentleman say that tho conditions when tlie poll was taken were tho samo as the conditions nowP Public opinion had changed enormously. One evidence of tho change in popular opinion was in tho passage of the Military Service Bill. He was advised that the anti-"shoutihg" legislation which, had been passed by tho House would do moro harm to tho trado than closing at, say, 8 p.m. Mr. Herdman had contended that if hotels were closed early tho trado must bo compensated. If that were so, then tho trade should be compensated for anti-"shout-ing." But Mr. Herdman had not suggested this. He (Mr. Newman) had voted lor 8 o'clock closing, and for the referendum, and ho did so because ho thought tho people should reduce expenditure on liquor. However, he belioved that tho prohibition of "treating" would provo to bo one of tho heaviest blows ever struck at tho trado. With tho reat of the Bill he was in eutiro accord. Mr. P. C. WEBB (Grey) said ho considered • the anti-"shouting" clauso "ridiculous and childish," and he declared that it did not meet with the approval of members of tho House. They supported it becauso it was in a Government Bill. Tho olauso had not tho respect of members, and would never havo tho respect of the people. It would ba evaded generally. Ho believed that liquor was one of tho greatest curses from which the country suffered. However, ho took strong exception to tho suggestion that a man who did not support nil the proposals made by the Prohibitionists was acting at tha behest of tho trade. Tho Bill did not touch tho fringe of tho liquor question, but it did persecute a few people who, in. tho last few months, had put their hard-earned savings in hotels. It did not touch the brewers or merchants, who tied tho houses, tnd spoiled tho hotelkcopcr. House Made a Mistake. Mr. It. A. WEIGHT (Wellington Suburbs) said that- there was evidonco in the experience of other countries that State control did not furnish a solution of tho liquor problem. The object of tho proposals submitted to the Hou6o was to close hotels early in order to conserve tho nation's resources during tho war period. It was only a temporary measure. Answering the arguments* about compensation, ho said that ho believed hotelkeopers ought not to bo compelled to bear the,whole cost of early closing, but he did not bolieve the compensation should bo paid by tho State, ft should bo paid by tho brewers and merchants to whom the hotelkeopers had to pay huge sums to get into hotels. He

challenged tho accuracy of the state- ' niont that tho only peoplo behind tho early closing movement wero tho Prohibitionists. This, he claimed, was not the case. Ho believed that the Houso had roado a mistake in not taking heed of tho demand of- tho peoplo for early closing, and tho people would take notice of this when opportunity offered. The Prohibition Party should havo no regrots about tho decision of tho Houso in this respect. If six o'clock closing became general, tho prohibition movement would lost much of its strength, would almost collapse, becauso many peoplo who now voted prohibition did so not because they wished to destroy the trado but because they wished to havo it reformed. ■ Mr. W. T. JENNINGS (Taumarunui) said that the system by which people obtained liquor in tho King Country was a bad system. He thought the Government should introducn State control in tho King Country, and this could bo dono very easily. Money for the War. Mr. C. A WILKINSON (Egmont) referring to the efforts made for 'compromise, said that a definite offer of 8 oclock closing, from 8 a.m. to 8 pin was made on behalf of tho early closing party, which regarded this as.a'reasonable compromise. Theso and all other offers of compromise were rejected by the supporters of the trade. Ho believed that national efficiency would have bet-n improved if the sale of liquor wero re- %, ~ ' By this meaM WB ""dd make available more money for the prosecution of the war. We could save-only by the checking of extravagances. We were spending too much money on drink racing and American motor-oars. He behoved that the Uquor party had made a tactical error in refusing to concede some part of the demand for early closing. Minister in Reply. The Hon. A. L. HERDMAN, in reply said that the debate had passed through many phases. Tho arguments now being used wore in the direction of national economy. He ventured to beficvo that economy was now being practised by the people of this country, and this would be shown by the deposits in tho savings banks. Reference had been made to the importations of motor-cars, .but these were to a great extent necessary for thecarrving on of the business ot the country. Tho farmers were adopt-': ing motor-cars in order to facilitate ™« r business, and he did not believe that too much money was being spent in this direction., Why should tho cry tor national economy be directed wholly against the licensed houses? This was only ono section of the peoplo, and the 017 wa s, re PUSnant to one's sense of fairness. . The Government had to look at the question broadly, and bear in mind •?i expression made of the people's will, ihe Government had decided that to preserve order and peace tho sly croc?hTfl Sl '\ Ul v. be , shu^ ,I P' and > that the habit of prostitution should bo regulated, and the one-woman brothel Si th ?.,H blt of «* ou ' in 6- was to be dealt with by regulation. It was not lair to urge the closing of hotels at six o.cioct without compensation. To do this would have been grossly unfair. If compensation had been proposed on the lines ot six o clock closing it would have been r'wl XT h^°? ra J bl ° member *<»-• Christchurch North had suggested that ho was biased in his second reading speech, but nnf +VWW O , m ? l P l > ei ''s speech made one think that he himself was not free irom bias. On temperance questions ho was an enthusiast. It was impossible to give all that that honourable member desired-it would be ruinous, and would not be-fair. On tho other hand, it would not be right to give all tho hoteli! e j B ! r 'i desired > ttn <l so the Government had taken the middle course. He doubted if there was much in the cry for economy. The legislation which the Government had already passed would enforco economy throughout the country and he believed that when this Bill passed and was put into operation, the *' would be in every way good. The Bill was read a third time on the TOICCS. TRIBUTE TO MR.'MASSEY. Mr. ISITT asked the indulgence of the Houso to make a reference to the Prime Minister. ■ Voices: "No," and "Yes." On the feeling of the House being taken, permission -was given. Mr. Isitt said that he. only wanted to say that they had had certain conferences over which tho Prime Minister had presided. Ho wished to pay his tribute or testimony io the absolute fairness and impartiality with which Mr. Massey had presided over these conferences. They could not have had a more model chairman. CENSORSHIP OF FILMS. SECOND READING DEBATE. Tlie Hon: G. W. RUSSELL moved tho second reading of tho Kinematograph Film Censorship Bill. Ho said that of recent years the dramatic tendency of some films had been such that an agitation had grown up for some censorship. The Catholic Federation had done much in this connection, and it was now proposed to institute a system of cen-. sorship. _ The larger portion of tho censorship would probably have to be done at Wellington, although other films would have to bo treated at Auckland or InvercaTgill. Instead of establishing a Board of Censors tlie Government proposed to appoint suitable persons at the different points necessary, so that films plight be censored without delay. The direction of the measure was against the'exhibition of films contrary to public decency and order. Tho clauso had been deliberately broadly drawn to operate against any films that might bo detrimental to recruiting, etc. No provision was being made for an appeal, becauso ho thought it would bo most unusual for a whole film to bo censored. If any appeal were required it could bo made- to tho Minister. Garb would be taken that no man with a kink' or abiased mind would bo appointed as a censor, but a man, with a clear avorage mind, who knew tho responsibilities of his position. As showing the magnitude of tho business, 100,000 feet" of film wero being imported into New Zealand per week. A fee would be charged to cover the cost, so that, tho country would not suffer. Criticism was often directed moro against tho ghastly posters that wero displayed than against tho pictures themselves. He was not sure whether they had power under the Indecent Publications Act to deal with these posters, some of which wero an outrage upon public decency. Ho saw ono recently in Wellington which was simply outrageous. He had consulted the Attorney-General to see if the Indecent Publications Act required strengthening. If the proprietors were wise they would themselves very severely censor the nosters which were Rllowcd to be displayed. No Need for the Bill. Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) said ho had understood that this was to be a war session, and ho did not think anyone would bo so bigoted as to bring down a moasuro likely to destroy any particular business. All over the country, with tho exception of Wellington, the. cntertainmont had suffered heavily, and the Bill might havo been left till after tho war. Tho Bill was not asked for to improve tho morals of tho people. It was asked for by tho Catholics, becauso . certain films had boon shown which, wero dramatisations of novels which wore calculated to provoko unfriendly feolings towards their Church. These films had never been shown with this object, but ho did not condemn the Catholics for protesting. However, ho thought thoy might have protested, and left TE" at that. Generally, he claimed that the picture show was the cleanest show in Now Zealand. Ho discussed,' nlso, tho question of whether certain features in pictures and in other shows were: lewd or not. A clean man would see in them beauty and artistiry, while the low mind would search for and discover lewdness. Ho warned the Minister that the Bill proposed to interfere in a matter of great difficulty. It was possible • that by tho caprico of a censor a film might bo rejected which had cost, say, .£IOOO to purchase. Ho argued that the police had power enough now. to suppress indecency, in pictures. No films had ever come into the country which could compare in snggestivoncss to the contents of certain books or "annuals," which found ready sale at the booksellers' shops. Ho hoped

the Minister would not advance the Bill beyond the second reading stage. The Bill was read a second time on the voices, and was committed forthwith. Matters of Detail. Mr. G. Witty asked tho Minister to provide in tho Bill for a right of appeal against the decision of the censors. He suggested that the appeal should be to a magistrate. Mr. Russell said that some magistrate's would he much more severe censors, and less reasonable in their judgment than anybody likely to be appointed to the office of censor. It did not follow that because a man was a magistrate he would be a suitable man. He promised to provide for a method of appeal. He could not say what salaries would bo paid to censors. It was stated that three days in each week wonld be sufficient in which to see all tho films coming into Now Zealand. It would not be necessary, nor was it proposed, that men should be paid .£SOO or-.£600 a year for two or three days' work in the week. He thought that an experiment could be made in the beginning by getting two or three level-headed men already in tho public service to. act as censors in the different centres. The object of the D' partment would be to have a film censored immediately upon arrival, so that it could be shown the same evening. A new sub-clause was inserted to provide for a right of appeal under process to be fixed by regulations. The Bill was read a third time and passed. The House rose at 11.45 p.ni.