PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2835, 28 July 1916, Page 6

PARLIAMENT

WAR LEGISLATION EARLY CLOSING REJECTED LIVELY PROCEEDINGS THE ANTI-SHOUTING DIVISIONS, The Legislative Council, met at 2.30 p.m. . : The Imprest Supply Bill was received from the Lower House, and put thr/ugh all its stages. The Council adjourned at 2.35 p.m.

THE HOUSE

Tho House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. The report on the work of friendly societies was laid on the table by the Hon. J. A. Hanau. Mr. R, FLETCHER (Wellington Central) asked the Minister whether he intended to do anything this session in regard to friendly societies' matters. There were several matters affecting the societies which required attention, . and he desired to know whether the Minister intended to arrange for a. conference of representatives of the societies. Mr. J. „A. YOUNG said there was a disposition to regard the work of the friendly societies that of the National Provident scheme as antagonistic. There was no reason for this feeling, as the National Provident scheme was covering ground which was not covered by tho friendly societies. The lit. Hon. SIR JOSEPH WARD said that; the friendly societies wore doing good work, which tho State was assisting, but ho deprecated any tendency to build up the work of these societies at the expense of the work of the National Provident scheme. This would be a great mistake. A conference of tho representatives of friendly societies, nu doubt, would bo productive of much benefit, but any attempt to benefit these societies at tho cxpenso of the State's national annuity scheme should bo resisted. This scheme was a most important and beneficient one, and its usefulness would bo greatly increased as years went by. Tho Hon. A. M. MYERS (Minister in C'hnrgo of tho National Provident Fund) spoke to a. similar effect. Ho said that tlie annual report on tho working of the Naitonal Provident Fund showed great progress during tlie past year. Mr. H. POLAND (Ohinemuri) said that'the National Provident Act required amendment in certain directions. He eulogised tho work of friendly societies, and urged that the maternity bonus should bo increased to at least ,£6. This bonus, as well as free medical services, should be available for all women. Mr. A. HARMS said ~that tho work of tho Friendly Societies and tho National Provident scheme differed so widely that thero was no great competition.. There was room for both works, and he did not'join in the cry as to unfair competition. ■ Dr. 11. T. ,T. THACKER said that if a Friendly Societies' Conference were held, representatives of the British Medical Association should bo invited to attend. This probably would assist in bringing about a satisfactory settlement of the present dispute with tho doctors. Thero should bo a national ajid universal baby bonus. Mr. Willy: Would you make it retrospective? Dr. Thacker: I think it should operate back to tho beginning of tho war. Several • members supported tho proposal to hold a conference. Tho Hon. ,1. A. HANAN said that tho representations of members in regard to tho holding of a Friendly Societies' Conference would receivo his favourablo consideration during the recess. AMENDMENTS TO THE FINANCE BILL. Several amendments, mainly of a technical- nature, to tho Finance Bill woro introduced by Governor's Message ' Sir JOSEPH WARD, in explaining tho amendments, said that they provided for tho increase of the authorisation of borrowing powers for war, purposes from .£12,000,000 to i!lb',000,000, as previously indicated by him, and for tho increase of the limit of unauthorised expenditure by an additional JJIOO.OOO per year. Another amendment provided for tho avoidance of any appearance of the over-riding of tho British law in, connection with the provision safeguarding persona or companies from double taxation. Mr. G. WITTY said that two years ago tho limit of unauthorised expenditure was raised to .£25,000. Ho would not object to'tho present proposal to extend tho amount to .£350,000, but he thought that if it wero not sufficient Parliament should be called together. Sir JOSEPH WARD said that- there may ? be unforeseen expenditure, and the increase in tho limit was necessary. The.amendments were agreed to. THE WASHING-UP BILL. Tko Reserves and Other Lands Disposal and Empowering Bill, otherwise the Washing-Up Bill, was introduced by Governor's Message. Mr. JIASSEY said that at present the Bill contained 86 clauses. It probably would contain in all about 100 clauses, and an explanation of each, clause would be printed and circulated. The Bill was read a first time and referred to the Lands Committee. KINEMATOGRAPH FILM CENSORSHIP BILL. Tho Kinematograph Film Censorship Bill was introduced by Governor's Message.' - Tho PRIME MINISTER, said that tho Bill provided lor tho appointment of a Board of' Censors for tho purposo indicated by the/title of the Bill. The members of the board would be public officials. Their salary had yet to be- arranged. Tho Bill was read a first time. WAR REGULATIONS BILL A LIVELY DEBATE THE EARLY CLOSING ISSUE The House went into Cominitteo on the AVar Regulations Bill and the War .Legislation Amendment BiJi. On the short titlo of the War, Regulations P-.1, Mr. ,1. I-aync (Grey Lynn) first caught tho Chairman's eye, and discoursed for ten minutes upon the enemy tradins regulations. Dr. H. T. J. Thacker (Christchurch East) remarked that the individual had a right to his freedom, and he proposedto stand up as often as he could that evening to see that tho privileges of the democracy of New Zealand were not curtailed in any manner. ' The Chairman: What clause are yon referring to? You cannot discuss the principle of the Bill. Dr. Thacker: The olause I am leadr ing up to is the anti-shouting clause. Ho proceeded' to defend the practice of "shouting" as being of long and honoured standing. He predicted that any numer of amendments would be moved supplementing this principle of "anti-shout-ing," and making it applicablo to other things. Dr. A. K. Newman (Wellington East), dealing with enemy trading, asked tho Minister if he would introduce a clauso preventing alien enemies from trading under assumed British names. Tho Hon. A. L. Hordman said that there was a regulation already in.force which prevented any alien enemy from altering his name to carry on trade in New Zealand. What About Toa? Mr. G. Witty (Riccarton) condemned the anti-shouting clause, and said that if it were carried it should ho made applicable also- fo tea, tobacco, meals, etc. The Prohibitionists wero asking for moro than they had said they would bo satisfied with—they would never bo satisfied. Ho repudiated tho necessity alleged to exist for early closing. The Bill was altogether too drastic, for it contained reflections upon the soldiers in empowering tho Govornor-in-Council to make any regulations for tho control of tho sale

of liquor. Tire House should bo told what would he covered by these regulations. Mr. P. C. Webb (Grey) said ho was unconvinced still that the "auti-sliouting" clauso was necessary. The thing could not be carried out—the law would ha evaded, as men would sneak round like criminals with furtive sixpences 6ceking a drink. The people would not tolerate this clause for a. moment. If u. man claimed the right to treat his friend to a cup of tea, ho in turn claimed the right to treat his friend to a glass of beer if he cared to drink it. The Social Evil. Mr. C. 11. Poole (Aucklau/ West) touched on the social evil, and quoted a letter from the Civic Loaguo of Auckland, embodying well-known women's organisations, which protested against the power being given to the Governor-in-Council in connection with the drafting regulations affecting the women of tho country. He hoped this question would bo threshed out most fully, so that the people as a whole would know what wat intended to be done. 'Mr. A. E. Glover (Auckland Central) said that he intended to claim Ids full rights of speech in opposition to some clauses of this measure. Mr. R. A. Wright (Wellington Suburbs) denied the aspersion that the Prohibitionists had anything to do with tho anti-"shouting" clause. , Dr. Thacker: Are you going to vote for it? Mr. Wright: I will tell you that m tho division lobby. He went on to deny emphatically that the Prohibitionists were responsible for the early closing movement./ Those originally responsible wero some women in Wellington who were not connected with the Prohibition movement.

• The Chairman: The early-closing question is not beforo the Committee. Mr. Wright went on to urge that a referendum should be taken, when lie was again called back to the Bill by the Chairman. Turning to the social question, he desired to know if any policeman could accost any woman who was on the streets late at night. If this were intended, he would have to oppose the proposal. Mr. H. J. H.iOkey (Taranaki) said 'that no witnesses from the liquor sido had protested against the anti-"skout-ing" clauso to the M to Z Committee. Their attitude was that it was a farce. The military commandants had approved of the anti-"shonling" clause. Mr. Payne approved" of tho idea of women police for the administration of the regulations upon venereal disease. That Anti-Shouting Clause. Sir Joseph Ward said that he had been in tho House since 1887, and had had to do with all tho licensing legislation passed sinco that time. He realised that it was the most difficult legislation that could be put on tho Statute Book : in any country, and the licensing laws of New Zealand had been put on the Statute Book without any ill-will between the contending parties in tho House. After tho first yeaT of war there was much talk about control of tlie salo of liquor, and dovelo"p7ncnts in Australia were watched with interest. The question had been asked in tho debato ns to who was responsible for the clause relating to early closing.- In conversation he had with a gentleman high Up in the Prohibition party, that gentlcmau Informed him that he believed there was no considerable domnnd for early closing, .but that there was a demand for an(!i-"shouting" •legislation. This intimation he conveyed to his colleagues in Cabinet, and that was tho origin of tho present clauso. The Government boliei--cd that in introducing .such a clause Id wnr time they wero introducing a great reform. Ho believed this still. But •he considered that he had a definite mandate' from his constituents as tho result of tho last liquor poll to justify him in refusing to vote for any change of tho hours for the closing of hotels. Ho would not vote for G o'clock or 8 o'clock or any other change in the closing hour. He would stand 'by tho Bill, and would not vote for any amendments that were not accepted by the Minister in charge of the Bill oil behalf of tho Government. Mr. P. C. Webb objected to tho House being bound by any agreement mado by Sir Joseph Ward with some Prohibitionist, anil ho objected to the anti-shout-ing clause. "A Misunderstanding." Mr. L. M. Jsitt (Christchurch North) said that ho regretted having to differ with the Minister of Finance, but. if he convoyed to him (Sir Joseph Ward) that ho was prepared to mako a bargain on behalf of the Prohibitionist' Party Dr. Thacker: So you are tho man, are you? Mr. Isitl—-that if the Government would put ariti-shouting legislation into the Bill that tho Temperance Party was disposed to abandon all hopo or claim to. shortening tho hours, then he could only say it nu utter misunderstanding. Mr. Nosworthy. It is too late now. Mr. Isitt went on to say that after last Ression, when the House failed to deal in any way with early closing, he urged upon Sir Joseph Ward that at least "shouting" might bo dealt with. He (Mr. Isitt) told Sir Joseph that ho had talked privately with some members of the' Cabinet, and they individually were opposed to "shouting," and ho told Sir Joseph Ward that nearly the whole people were behind this demand for anti-shouting, and if they wuuld give such a clause it would do somethinpt to allay the discontent amongst the temperance section. He had no power to drive any bargain of the kind indicated with the Ministry, and whatever Sir Joseph' Ward may have understood, no such idea had ever entered his own head. Ho regretted that any misunderstanding had arisen, and if Sir Josenh Ward T)ut that interpretation -noon his words he (tho speaker) must have been very clumsy in expressing his mind, for no such intention ever entered "hist head-

"Driven to State Control." The Bight Hon. W. F. Massoy said ho did not belong to tho Liquor Party or tho Prohibition Party, and he had no intention of joining either party- He ro=o to endorse what Sir Joseph Ward had said, and recounted what Sir Joseph Ward had reported of his conversation with Mr. Isitt. He did not, of course, suggest that what Mr. Isitt now stated 'wad incorrect. No doubt there had been a misunderstanding. But if it had not been for the agreement between Sir Joseph Ward ' and Mr. Isitt, or if it had not been understood that the Prohibition Party would not bo well satisfied with this anti-shouting legislation, it was probable that the clause would never havo been introduced. It was his opinion that this anti-shouting legislation was far more likely to discourage tho drinking habits of certain sections of the people than any proposal that had been made for. the shortening of hours. He agreed also with that clause in the Bill for the more drastic control, of licensed houses. This was necessary. If a man did not conduct his house properly he should be made to get out ot it. Mr. AVilford: You will be with me in favour of State control? Mr Masscy. Well, I have studied the question of State control, and I must say that I don't like it. But I say this: We aro being driven into State control, and if this sort of thing goes on for a few years, I believe it will be the duty of Parliament to provide for State control. Mr. Wilford: Put it to the people in a referendum. Mr. Massey: I don t like the referendum. Mr. J. M'Combs (Lyttelton) thought the best way to solvo tho question ot early closing would be to take a referendum of the people. Short Title Passed. , At 10.55 p.m., after further debate, the short title was passed. On Clause 3, tho Minister moved to insert new sub-clauses, enabling the Gov-ernor-in-Council to make provisions extending the life of powers of attorney given by members of tho Expeditionary Force, until the donee shall receive notice, in writing of tho revocation of such power by the donor, or until. probate of the will shall be granted by the Supremo Court. Tho clause was agroed to. I Regulation of Prostitution. Mr. J. T. M Hornsby asked the Minister if ho would accept the following amendment to the sub-clauso relating to the suppression of prostitution:—"Provided that no regulation shall authorise the arrest of any person on the ground of suspicion or otherwiso than under tho process of law now. in force." ■ .

Tho Minister referred to recent "onewoman" brothel cases, and said that it was proposed now during war timo and until one year after the war to take power to suppress those houses. Replying to Mr. Hornsby, he said he did. not agree that tho present law gave sufficient power.

Mr. Hornsby: What T want to prevent is the arrest of any woman without warrant.

Mr. Hordman: Wo don't propose that at all. Wo propose merely that whoa women beforo tho Court arc found to bo diseased wo shall havo power io hold tueui.

Dr. Newman protested against tho clause as being a re-enactment of the "CD." Act. Ho hoped tho amendment would be pressed.

Mr. A. H. Hindmarsli strongly supported trusting tho Government with wide powers. ,The women and others who opposed this did not know anything about the socia evil. Some members wero 6imply seeking voles- in their attitude. A large number of women in Wellington were a serious menace to tho community, and this matter -had to bo considered from a broad poinl- of view.

The Minister of Internal Affairs gave an assurance that it was not proposed to arrest anyone upon suspicion. Only those already convicted ,of vagrancy, etc., would come under tlie proposals of the Government. This matter' was a great deal more urgent than members realised. He had been informed unofficially by a soldier that out of a sick parade of 21 men eleven wero found to be suffering from venereal disease. That could not bo allowed to continue. The necessity for dealing with this matter wns clamant and urgent. It was not proposed to deal with' clandestine prostitutes, but solely witli prostitutes and those asso : dating with .them. The House could be quite satisfied that no woman would be affected by the regulations unless she hnd been convicted for immoral conduct. Mr. Wilford' said ho supported the idea of the amendment, but as it was drafted it was ineffective. He thought, however, they might accept the assuranco of the Ministers in the matter. On a. division, the amendment was defeated by 54 votes to 10. The, subclause as a wholo was affirmed by 61 votes to 10. Anti-Shouting Division. Owing to some slight confusion on the part of members, the sub-clauso prohibiting "shouting" went through unchallenged, but in view of representations made, the Chairman permitted a division to.be taken later on the sub-clause without discussion.

The result of. the division was the re-, tentiou of the clause by 56 votes to ID. Following was the division list: For the Clause, SS: Allen, Anderson, Anstey, Bollard, Buddo, Craigie, Dickson, J. M., Dickson, J. S., Ell, Field, T. A. H., Field, W., Forbes, Fraser, Guthrie, Hanan, Harris,. Henare, Herdman, Herries, Hiudniarsh, Hornsby, Hunter, 'Hudson, Isitt, M'Callum, M'Corabs, M'Donald, M'Nab, Mnnder, Massey, Myers, Newman, 15., Newman, A. IC, Ngata, Nosworthy, Okey, Poland, Pomare, Poole, Rhodes, E. H., Rhodes, T. W., Russell, Scott, Sidey, Smith, Statham, Stewart, Svkes, Thomson, V'eitch, Walker, Ward, Wilford, Wilkinson, Wright, Young. Against (15); Brown, Buick, Coates. Colvin, Dickie, Fletcher, Glover, Jennings, l Parata, Pavno, Pearce, Talbot. Thacker, Webb, Witty. Mr. Witty niovei'-VJn amendment to render the anti-"shouting" clause not applicable to conditional licenses during the period of their contracts, but on'tho Prime Minister giving an assurance that the point would be considered the division was not pressed for. Eight O'clock Closing. The remaining clauses of the Bill were agreed to on the voices. Mr. C. A. Wilkinson moved to Introduce a new clauso providing 'that the hours of sale of liquor should be from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., twelve hours per day, instead of sixteen hours per day, as at present. Ho said that his reason for moving the clause was to prevent wasteful cxjxmditure on alcohol. He did not think the House was in the humour to vote for six o'clock closing, and ho thought 8 o'clock closing was a reasonable compromise. The Hon. A. L. Hertlman raised a point of order, that the clauso was foreign to the Bill, that it had nothing to do with war regulations, and that it was a negation of certain clauses in tho Licensing Act. Tho Chairman ruled that the clauso was not so entirely foreign to tho Bill a3 to be ruled out of order on this ground. The latitude, allowed was very wide. Ho allowed tho clause. Mr. Hordman thereupon moved that Mr. Speaker's ruling be taken 'on the question. The Committoc agreed,'' and Mr. Speaker was sent for.

Mr. Speaker said ho had had to lulo on a similar question on a former occasion. Ho ruled that tho Chairman's decision as to whether a clause was relevant to tho Bill or not was final. The clanso mnst therefore bo allowed. The clause was defeated bv '12 to' 29. . Mr. T, M. Wilford moved a new clause to provide that on and after Septomber 1, 1916, hotels should-not open for tho sale of liquor before 9 a.m. The clause was defeated by 38 votes to 32. Mr. H. G. Ell moved a clause providing that hotels should close at 9 p.m. Tho clause was defeated by 36 votes to 35. Mr. G. J. Anderson moved a clause to provide that at any time after the passing of the Act a poll of the electors 6hould bo taken to determine the hours within which liquor might be sold.

(Left sitting.)

THE LUCKENBACH STEAMERS _i. ♦ _ STATEMENT BY .DALGETY AND CO. The following letter,' which explains itself, has been addressed to the Prime Minister by Messrs. Dalgety and Co., Ltd.:—"We notice from Press reports of the proceedings in tho House yesterday that in the courso of a question addressed to the Hon. the' Prime-Minister by Mr. Pearoe, M.P., he mentions, inter alia, that Dalgety and Co., Ltd., havo been appointed agents for the Luckenbaeh Steam Ship Company Line. Mr. Pearce has evidently made the statement without a, knowledge of tho facts, and we desire to inform you that no such appointment has been made. In explanation we may that Mr. H. H. Eboy, the representative of the Luckenbach Company, while in Wellington, offered the Dominion agency to this company, but acceptance of such was not possible until it had been ascertained definitely how far the position might clash with existing business interests. As a result wo have since notified Mr. Ebey by cablegram to Australia that we are unable to accept the agency, but as it was necessary for him to leave .Wellington on Saturday last, up to which aatc we were unable to give him a definite reply, we undertook, under the circumstances, to handle the s.e, Florence Luckenbach, then due, and any further arrivals, pending his making other arrangements, which will probably extend to two other steamers. "At the moment, therefore, this is the full extent of our commitment with the Luckenbach Steam' Ship Company, and we trust you will'oblige us by making the facts known to the House on assembling to-day, for which, consideration wo beg to thank you in anticipation."