PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2830, 22 July 1916, Page 10

PARLIAMENT

COUNCIL REFORM PUBLIC WORKS ESTIMATES PASSED WITHOUT ALTERATION The Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. The Ron. 6. JONES resumed the debate on the second reading of the' Legislative Council ( Amendment Bill. ' The Reform. Party, he snid. had taken up th{ cry against the Council, and had "lade grossly inaccurate statements in the campaign. Denunciations of tho Council were screeched until the public became bewildered, but still there was no popular mandate for reform. No petitions were sent, to Parliament; no public meetings were held. Since the passage of the Act members cf Parliament had denounced the Act, and even some of the new Councillor* who had been appointed, when they, had exoe'riencf of the Council, realised that there was no need for change. He believed the Act' should be repealed, and he would vote for the nt'nendmpK'. The Hon. T. MACGIBBON said it' ■was a mistake to suppose that the reform of the Council was not a live qnesr tien at the elections. Tl>e people demanded an,elective [Toper House. But he considered that the reasons as set forth for a postponement of the operation of the Act were so clear and cogent that h° was surprised nt the o'Htemont aroused amoncr certain honourable members. Tin I'.nlieved that as this was one of the conditions upon which the National Government was firmed, the Council was in hnnnnr hound to give effect (o this condition. Tl<»_ Hon'. W. T3APNSHAAV supported the Bill, and spoke in favour of an elective Upper House. ' . The amendment proposed by Mr. Barr was 'n=t on the voir'".' •, ' - Sllf THA'fcoiS BF,T,L. in reply, said that Sir William Hall-Jones's statement that the agreement to postpone the operation of tjie Act -u-ns a bargaining away of the right's, of the peonle was not a fair presentment of .the" farts. The object.'of tap formation of the . National ; was to a united front to t'ie enemy. The same position had arisen at Home in re*ard to tho Home TRule Bill. The proposal was not fa take away the rights of the people, "St.* o P n . s tp«ne the exercise of those newts until they could he exercised with pronriety.' The second reading of the Bill was agreed to. bv 2* rotes- to 2. The Noes wore Sir William Hall-,Jones and the rtn... ,T T Pnlll The Bill was committed forthwith and after, brief dehnt» reported to the Council without amendment. Payment of Member*. On the motion for third reading, 'fhe Hon. J. T. PAUL said it was mors than time that the salaries paid to members of Parliament were frceely discussed. He did not consider that the salary of ,11200 a year paid to a member nf Legislative Council was sufficient. The services or u legislator were not worth anything if they were not worth more than ,£2OO a year. He was perfectly certain that the people of the country did not desiTe thut their members of Parliament should not be fairly paid. He urged that the matter was 6n« deserving the coiisidoratjon of the Government. „ SIR, WILLIAM HALI.-JONES repeated that, lie did no[ think tne lieform Party had any right under any circumstances to bargain awny what 93 per cent, of the people wanted, at .the request of anv sue members of Parliament, for any reason whatsoever. The citation of the case ; of the Trish Home Rule Bill was not fair, because that' case was not parallel with that of this Act.

Tile Hon..lt. MOORE said he sympathised with much that.Mr. .Paul had said about the honorarium of members 'of Parliament, but he would lie strongly against any increase at the-oresent time. The Hon. A. ,T. MAGINNITY said it did not matter a.snutf to him whether he was paid iC2CO or nothing. That was his personal position. But he. agreed with Mr. Paul that the position of inanv members was not so fortunate, and lie wished to lend his support to the request for reconsideration by tho Government of the rate of honorarium. He 'hoped the Leader of the Council would take note of what had been said. The Fou. ■('. •7f!N'F; c ; 'imported Mr. Pan) in his request for "increased nay." He believed that if the National Government had proposed to increase the honoraria of members the proposal would have been well received in the House and in the countrv. The present time, when the National Government was in. office, was a singularly opportune time for the raising of'such a question. He argued that the salaries iiow peid were not. adequate, and that it was quite' improper to sav that during the war this injustice should continue, The Hon. .T. BATIT? said that when the Council became elective according to the plan in the Act. the salary would have to be increased, otherwise the Council would be open only to men of wealth. For only such men could contest an election iii an electorate of half of one island. The Government was giving Civil Servants a war Ixmus, and to be. consistent the Governnicnfc'shouhl consider the case of legislators rendering a higher service to the country. The Hon, Ci. ('ARSON said he had been wondering since the discussion began what would be considered a fair rato of remuneration. A thousand a year? Who would argue that this was too much? A hundred a year? Who was to say that this was not enough? \Vhat was to be the standard of comfort of a member of Parliament? His own feeling was that lie. objected to talfing half-a-Crown for public services he rendered. He was of opinion, however, that when the Council was made elective the rate' of honorarium should bo made sufficient, lint although the present might be a proper time for 'the discussion of this subject it was not a proocr time, for an increase to be made. He considered that the grant of a war bonus to Civil Servants at this time was iniquitous. ,

The Hon. DKEITAX said that rn the present honorarium it was "hard for a pooi' man to make cuds meet." He ni'fred Hint there should tie a superannuation scheme for members of the Council.

The Hon. W. EAHNSHAW said lis worked for his living with bis hands, find he had never ceased to do this since '••• i""' v Hie n:?il. He "thought'' that the National Government should consider the, rates of /honoraria anew, because' it. was admitted l!*at the rates were inadequate. lie thought the Government! al?o Should' face the nuestion cf superannuation. SIH FIiANCJS 81-J.r- said tint until the House thought it proper that the honorarium of members of the House should he increased, it was unlikely that the House would increase the honprnrium of members of the Council. Prob.tblv when fh? Council became elective the. honorarium of members would'be increased. He would brins; the matter before lus eol-le-vrues. ' ..... , Th« Hill WU« read a third time and pawed. military service bill. TIIK RELIGIOUS OIIJI'XTOR. The' report of the conference on the M.ilituvv Service Hili was presented by the J lon. A. C. Hardy. The report was that the Council had agreed to certain amendment', in which both Houses were asked to concur. The only important point of di'aßreement between the two (louses was on the qn?«tion of exemotion for religious objectors. The proposal no\V is tlml under certain safeguards filrfadv in the Bill religious objectors may be exempt from combatant service, but shill be lial.de to lion-eoin-batant service, including service with the Medical Corps and the Army Service Corps. The report-was agreed to. " The Cojiiie.il rose at ."i.20 p.m.

THE HOUSE

PUBLIC WORKS ESTIMATES Tho House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. The House went into Committee of Supply to consider thd Public Works Estimates at 5 o'clock. The l'rime Min-

istcr mentioned that as thero was no Loau Bill- this year, upon Which members could discuss the Public AYorks policy, he proposed that members should discuss tho first item and bo reported, even though- in Committee. Tlio Hon. AV. leaser snid that tha " items" consisted . only of the unexpended jfcfiances 'of-lask year's - votes, lie had no money for new; works. It was his J .intention'after,th'o, session to arrango to meet tho co»nty councils at convenient centres and' arrange what works should be ' prosecuted, in tho interests of , the .particular districts concerned. This ' would. enab]o votes to be transferred, ' wiiere jt Wiis .deemed He denied the'accuracy of the criticism that money was being, "thrown away" upon 1 branch lines instead of-upon main lines, figures of the actual' expenditure dis'proved- this. He also denied that he was favouring the- South Island at the exjßonsß 'of. the North Island. As a matv tor of fact, on ttiis. year's allocations theNorth' Island received : £322,800 and the South Island £124,500. The sums spent -last year were, respectively, .£436,730. for ,tne North Island iind\ £147,152. for., the . South .Island. . ~ . . . . Jlr. (!. AV, . Forbes (Hurunui).. said the South Island did. not begrudge the. North Island its extra allocations;, for it . was. ' recognised'-'that. much development work, was required there.' Local bodies would have'fo recognise that their votes would be small this year. Re-, i'erring.to co-operative workers, he plead-. i ed> tbat they should bo granted a war bonus to counteract the increased cost of living. Government employees .were •being given, an'increase, l but tho Minister had definitely refused'to give those men an allowance; Au extra Shilling a day should be' allowed them.' Touching on the South Island Main Trunk Railway Mr. Forbes, strongly urged it's 'speedy prosecution as a. national work; Tlio Otira- tunnel should also bo prosecuted: to a' 6peedy .termination,. as only a-mile arid.a quarter of tunnelling now remained .to be done; - .- -■-■■ •• i Mr.-R. JlMDallum said that the country- .was fortunate -in having the ,seiv vices a-s Minister. of Public Works of'one of; his o.wn race, /.whose, task it was just now to . make.' the, most of, very, slender . ..resources. However, lie.urged,the.Minis-" ter- ; . to. have somework done.on tho ■southern, section of'the uncompletedjjor--tion 'of the South Island i Main -jTrunk line. He ,th6iight. tho Government-was starving the Public.'Work6 Department. Tho' Department should ; fae. given . funds ' to go on with works more t energetically. -He; hoped the Minister .would insist upon the pushing on, of the now Parliament' Buildings, in order that members might meet in the new Chamber .next : session. . To 'sit for .twelve bours in the inejjhitic atmosphere of ,the present Chamber was destroying the health'of members, and. the' recent breakdown of three. Ministers was due wholly to the bad air and tlio lack of ventilation in the present build-- ' ings. . Needs of Wellington, Province, ■- Dr. Ay K. Newman made complaint; that-no money was being .spent on railway construction - in. Wellington - Province. Last, year, for instance, only £1 was spent on the Martinjjorough rail-: waj', out of a-vote of '£5000. Next year lie supposed . that ■; only "about--.a- bob" would be spent ,on it. .He..thought .also that more oxpedition might.be shown in the construction' 'of theOhakune- ■ Raelihi;railway .-■■■'.:ln Mother respects also the Government was treating Wellington badly. .It would be of' very' 'great convenience to the people of AVellington if the trains were, all run into Lambton Station. This could be done at a cost oi' £4000 or so; it was absurd , to'say that it could not be done without an expenditure of £400,000. He'supported tho ..demand that the new House should be ; completed in time for-next session. . Mr. J. T.- M. .Hornsby said that it' was his opinion, that the ' MartinIjorongli railway ought : to have been completed ere this. This.railway wolild ' give a great relief ( to the, district, bei cause the County Council-could not make" and maintain roads'.'that "'would'stand the heavy'traffic going over them. .He also stressed the importance of pushing ahead with tlie. Riiniitaka deviation, and assured the Minister..that.although the. ' Wairiirapa people' were riot agreetf as '.to ■which was-the best route, they would raise' no question about jjoute if the Minister would go on with flie deviation, following tho advice of his experts as to ~ the line to be'.taken.

Mr. A. H. Hiidmarsli said - that the Minister might very prbperly.incrense

the pay of co-opcrativo workers. Tho rates should be suck as to permit a luan with reasonable exertion to earn 10s. in a day of eight hours. Mr. 11. G. EU said ho , would much rather see tho Government givo somo assistance to tho casual ivorkcr, whoso case, was much less comfortable than that of the Public Servant,

Napier-Gisborne Railway, Mr. G. Hunter said ho agreed that tho prc6ont was not a proper timo for urging tlio Government' to follow a progressive' policy of railway construction, but ho. would still like to seo moro progress made with the Napier-Gisborne railway. There had been difficulties at the Napier end, but ho understood' that these difficulties raised by tho Harbour Board had now been overcome. His opinion was that'tho railway was ono of tho most important in tho Dominion. It would when comploted open up a' very large area of land held in unprofitable occupation, and'would be a very good investment for tho country as a whole. Mr. Poland advocated tho moro speedy construction of tho railway from AVaihi to Gisboine. "no urged that works at Otira'' tunnel'should be closed down. Southern members: No! no! Nonsense! Mr. R. P. Hudson urged that tho needs of the baekblocks should receive greater attention. ' Mr; P. C. Wobb combated Mr. Poland's remarks in regard to the Otiva.tunnel. ■ Ifi that work were stopped now, it would be a great economic waste. Mr. G. V. Pearce: "It will bo a greater waste if wo finish it. •

Wellington Railway Station. Mr.' R. A. Wright-urged that, as they could not. liope. to got £400,000 for the new AVeliington.. railway station schomo for. sevoral years, arrangements should be .niado for ,running all passenger trains to the. Lambton station.: TJiis would be a fair compromise. .■ -He.understood that the cost-would -be £3000 or £-1000. ' ' ' Mr. Horries: Tliat is not the total cost. -That is the estimated cost'of tho interlocking .and signalling work. Mr. Golyin. made a .claim for greater .expenditure in the Nelson and AA r est Coast districts.-'- -■ The -Hon..*'A. :T. Ngata advocated ■ a. more-vigorous -prosecution of tho East Coast railway,' which, he said, would give access to a' large.a Tea of Native land that was. being- acquired by tho Government. Mr..,G< R. Sykes urged the need'for a acviSTlon of the AVellington-AYairrirapa railway so as to avoid the Rimutaka incline. • This, .-he .churned, would be a good business-investment for New Zealand. . The Hon. AV. Fraser said ho had been rather amused at the debate, but he thought a great deal of it was due to the fact that members wore under the impression that .their, words were being recorded in Hansard. He deprecated further discussion on the Otira Tunpel. Successive Governments had declaTetf that this line was, to be. finished, and it was futile now to talk of discontinuance. Regarding th> possibility of increasing tho wages of : w-operative workers, -lie had already stated tliat. .this .question would bo referred' to Cabinet, and Cabinet had not yet dealt with tho subject. He agreed with honourable monibers. that it would be a; saving to deviate the' Wairarapa. :liiie 'if l "the money could lie found. -~lt 'would save money, for the present line was '.But supposing it would earn' 35 or 20 per cent., how could this help. .the.'Government to .borrow the capital heeded to build it ? Also,, he would ask meiubfers interested in this line to remember that they had a line, however bad it wrts, while, there were many districts which had no line of any sort. The surveys of the routes were not completed yet, but they would be completed against the, time w-hen the money would be available.- Regarding Parliament Buildings, he said it would bo possible to finish the Chamber, for next .session, but he feared it.would not be possible to finisli some.of the .other quarters. ..Delay was. being caused by slow delivery of .marble. He was advised that there was no good reason for this slow.' delivery, and he would bring pressure to bear on the contractor/; to 'expedite 'matters. It was also a. fact thht'.if ;a portion-of the "building was finished' first there, would be danger of fracture of important walls.. Ho would have the bu'ilgisg finished- ready For next session if possible, but whatever Tiapponecf lie would have .it finished properly. (Hear, hear.) : Repljing to Mr. Craigie's request''to take'Lako'Coleridge electricity

to Timani, !)io Minister said Hint to do wr 'Would involve a capital expenditure :ol'!£100,000, which. lis could not alford at the present time.

'J'lio whole of the Estimates were passed without alteration, and tho House Adjourned, at 0.55 a.m., tilt 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday. .