NO SHIRKING

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2830, 22 July 1916, Page 10

NO SHIRKING

THE MILITARY SERVICE BILL AND THE CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS COMPROMISE DEBATED , The report, of the managers upon the Military Sefvice Bill was presented to the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon.. The Prime Minister said that p agreement had been arrived at 1 which he hoped would bo accepted by ' the House. • In explaining the amendments agreed to, the Eight Hon. 1 W. V. Massey stated that in clauses G and 8 it had been agreed that the Goverjior-in-Couricil and not individual Ministers should order the Government Statistician to place the . provisions of the Act in operation, so far as the calling .up of the divisions arid tho selection of the men by lot wns concerned. This would conduce to uniformity. • The most-, important mnend- . inent was with- regard.to the provisions for'appeal by a. conscientious objector. The clause as.amended altered tho objection of a.religious objector 'fronr "military service"' to "combatant - service." Subclause: ,1 of -clause. ; 1S would , how read: "A. Military Service Boafd shall not . allow, any appeal ;on the ground specified in paragraph e of sub-section 1 (giving.the religious-objector the right, of, fiiipeal)," unless .the appellant'shall signify in' ; the prescribed manner his willingness to perform such non-combat-ant work or services, including service . in the Medical Corps and the Army Service Corps, whether in or heyond New Zealand.' as may be required of him at such rnto of payment as n'av be prescribed.'" The consequential amendment in clause 34a, reouiring service from exempted persons, by substituting the words "combatant service" Tor "military serrico" wa-' necessary. These amendments.. said M.r. Massed, , now. broadened the service 'rffirt might he required Of religious bbiectors. and exfended that service to places.beyond New Zealand. No Chance for the Shirker. 1 Mr. Wilford: That overrules the resolution of this House. . Mr. Massey: I don't know that it does. The substitution of the term ■ "combatant service", for "military service'" really simplifies 'the matter, and makes the position much clearer. Mr. Wilford: They are both equally . obnoxious. Mr. M'Combs: Yes. Mr. Massey: I don't expect to nlease the hon. niemher. We are not trying to do that. We are trying to do what . is'right. (Laughter.) ' Mr. Massey exnlained. further, that ' the scruples'of the religious objector, were respected to a certain, extent, but .there v.-as. not the rery slightest possibility under these proposals for the shirker to escane. • Mr. Wilford: Tes., Mr, Massey: I fai' to it._. The man need not go into the firing-line or into' th« trenches, but he has to give service. Mr. Wilford: Sunuose he is ordered to build wire entanglements between our lines and the G°rmah trenches?,. . Mr. Massey: That is an extreme case, hut it doe" not involve him taking up a rifle. He can be eotrtnelled to ioin the Ambulance Corps or the Army Service Corns. -

Mr. AVilford: Yes; he is- allowed to enter job t 1, " 11 the other man. Mr. Massev' I d""'t know w~e''" come l ; in. Th» man bns to do nil his work in cold blood. -without any excitement, such as nif"- come, from baronet cl'm'ie. I don't _ k"o>v what other in ember:?'.feel, but. if T m l .* choice, I would'be prenared fo'tak o mv nlace tho eToifeinent .'s, tlmn 'lo the cold-blooded work. Thi s . he said, was the be e t arraneement wo "•"ere a'do tn make with the representatives of another "Incp. '' : Mr; Wilford: Why?. " Mr. Mnssev: -They- refused to withdraw tli6ir pmandmeilK . . "Wilforil; 'therefore, we gave. )•>? -.Mr;" Mnssey": No; we have ' amended these clauses; and have made them harmless, from our- point of view. Mr. "Wilford: Have tlicv not (Sained every amendment they made? Mr. Massey: No; not at all. Mr. T. M. Wilford declared that the Council had succeeded in doing what it liked with the House- in/'roemrd to the Bill. Tho members of the House were the direct-representatives of the people, while the Legislative Council was only n nominative Chamber. Ho thought that the House'should insist that there should be no-exemption for the So-called religious objectors as against the . rank aijd file of the people. There was no reason for it." If "the Germans were invading New Zealand's shores a-'man who claimed exemption ''would be regarded as a traitor. (Hear, hear-.) '.He would call for a division against granting .any exemption whatever',' Ho knew exactly what was taking jllaco ii) regard to this matter. A member-.'Tell us about it. _ Mr. Wilford: I do not believe in being personal in the matter. There i ' nothing to be gained by .mentioning names. s

mi " easons for the Compromise. thirl i, ou - Ja !' -Vl c . u eiLid l'opeu that the leport ot tlic Conference wo., be .unanimous y agreed to. it was a i„, and reasonable compromise, and there \vcra_ good reasons-"'why it should be «^nU i ». COU, ' Ci^1 »»" -S The compromise That had iLh agreed'to by the conference had destroyed a greaf « r -ciiiSS ST.ta'f' ST S;"™ vice Corps, in both of w1,;,.i, " '- u " ence had show^thuV? s nHi™\!" ,,ori - UUlMf'l'nitv <i • ■* ji M Cl'O «IS "I A. iniiw;,,/:, a'aenrnt ffajj up resentment iu the IS a l " i h 1 'A liieniliers of the other Chamber 1 ~ mitt l m tbo I,me " dln ™t- ' He ailobiri tii - i iP USlt - 10n of tl,e r <?li"iou« $ woll-'J Z a "' em H ll c, ? u « • nut ho consulcml Hnf flm wliole. position of tliese objictms !as illogical. He ihd not agree ivitii fhn f-Ie? l toolc "P. and in fact ho considered that if their vie,,-.; we'°wm!b ,e i Ule "' 'r" ica ' we »ould li'ivo a, conditions of thiircs destiuctive of all civic order, and bord«r- ---?" A 1 tl.n same time lie respected the conscientious scruplos of these people. A deputation representiug all the Christian churehre exc"nt one had expressed tliier desire that the exemption should be allowed. Mr. Wilford: They are not men of The world. Mr. Isitt: Tliey are devoting 1 hoir whole lifo to the sludv of matters rclaunz to conscience, and should. therebe just as competent to form an opinion on the subject as the averntre member of Parliament. Mr. D. Euiek, in sunporlimr tl.e amendment, said that he did not'thin); so long as the religions objectors had to do dmy in (lie ambulance or armv ?eM ice corps tbat,tlie.y wouild have nianv objectors. Mr. J. M'Combs said that the Rou-e virtually ba.l sot all its own way in the matter. _ He thought that the Housed even if it conld not exempt the co'iscientious obj?etor, might havo exempted the religious objector. Mr. C. K. Slatham said tlint he could not ogre»' to -the renort of conference. If the religions objectors eoiisentod to do (vlint th"y wero asked to do thev would be stultifying themselves and their e.reed. It wonld be, only a religious objector with * very elastic eonscience indeed who would lie abln to do wl'.i.t it wr>t now proposed he should do. Air. .1. T. M. Hornsbv said that if the men eoiieerncd were tru» to their )irofossinns they would lint l>e aide to re-', der the service now proposed. Tt would, therefore, be Wter to grant no e.venn't4«n at all. These p«ople professed to follow the precuts embodied in the S'rrm'on on tho Mount, but the only one

that Cliey followed was that which taught them that they should not kill—that, in other words, they should save their skins! • We Want to Poss the Bill, The Hou. W. H. Herries urged that the report of the couforence should be adopted. What they wanted was to get the Bill through, nutl they should adopt a reasonable compromise. Mr. liorn'sby: The Council will not run the. risk of dropping the Bill. Mr. Hurries: .No, .1 do not thinlc it would, but we should not arouse bitter feeiing between the two llousc-a. It is necessary that the Bill should pass and tho proposed compromise is a very lair I one. I Mr. Hornsby: Wo should stick to what tho Defence Minister moved before it went to the . Upper House—that wc should disagree with tho amendment. Mr. Herries said that they had endeavoured lo arrive at a compromise 'that would satisfy both sides. It was possible ' that they had satisfied neither side. If Unit were so,'if showed that they had done right. (Laughter.) Mr. A. S. Malcolm said that the proposed clause seemed to bo contradictory; in that it proposed to exempt men from service, and yet proposed that, they should render servicc. The Prime Minister said that any seeming contradiction could be put right by regulation. Mr. Malcolm said 'that one could have very little respect for a man whose conscience 'would not ■ allow him to face diggers which" his fellows w?ra facing. The Hon. R. H. Rhodes' saul that tho ?Mpo=ed compromise gave practically nothing to the religious objectors. If th«y did'tlie propotfcld work they would be facing dingers cijual to those faced Ly those ill the firing lilie nnd doing equally valuable work. Dr. Thackor urged that the report of the conference'should be accepted. •Mr. G. It. Sykes opposed the granting of exemptions. "Shall some of our toys go 'to the front," he said, "and should tame sit-here? I say No!" Mr. J. Payne said that Mr. Sjkes's argument iv'ai unfortunate. "Some have gone," he said, "ami,some of us are sitting here." (Laughter.) He favoured the original' 'exemption clause as inserted by Ihe Legislative Council. Mr. -0. H. Poolo supported the proposed 'compromise. The report of the' conference was agreed to by 41 votes t6 lft. The Legislative Council tdso agreed to the report.