THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2812, 1 July 1916, Page 10

THE HOUSE

The House of Bepresentatives met at 2.30 p.m. Mr. G. K. SVKES (Masterton) gave notice to ask the Government whether, in view of the number of complaints received by him from soldiers and others as to the inferior liquor sold by certain licensed victuallers in Wellington, they would appoint special inspectors to detect such violations of the Licensing Act. Dr. A. IC. NEWMAN (Wellington East) gave notjee to ask the Minister in Charge of Police whether ho would consider the advisability of appointing women police to act in cases affecting women.

Mr. ,K. M'CALLUM (Wairau) asked the Minister of Defence whether the New Zealand Government would give some assistance to Jewish and Armenian refugees ill Egypt. He mentioned that there were 6000 of these unfortunate people. 'J'lie.v were being assisted by the British Government, but he thought it would be a graceful act if New Zealand gave some nid. The Hon. J. ALLEN: It is a matter for Cabinet to deal with. But 1 am bouud to say that I think the New Zealand Government is doing a great deal already in helping the Belgians and in other ways. (Hear, hoar.) ] shall have much pleasure in submitting the honourable gentleman's request to Cabinet. THE ESTIMATES VOTE FOR LOCAL DEFENCE BASE RECORDS OFFICE The House went into Committee of Supply at '2.5 ft p.m. on the Estimates, the first class taken being Defence Department, ,£491,923. Dr. Newman usked the Minister when the House could have details of the country's war expenditure. Other members begun to speak of matters connected with the Expeditionary Force, but the Chairman ruled that as there was nothing in the Estimates dealing with tlio Expeditionary Force, all discussion of these topics was out of order. The Minister said, however, that he was prepared to answer any questions about the Expeditionary Force; The Chairman said that this was beyond his province, and he must, keep discussion ennfined to matters dealt with in the Estimates. The first general discussion concerned the working of the Base Records Office, and the (realmrnt ol'. returned soldiers before their discharge. Mr. WilforH made a chargc that Captain. Vine and Mr. Broadfoot were being edged out of control after having organised the office. The Hon. J. Allen said that the director of Base Records was Major Norton

Francis, who had dono very valunblo work, work which, would ono day bo recognised by this country at its true value. It was not correct to sa.7 that Captain Vine had organised the-office. Captain Vino had not had anything like tho task undertaken by- Major Francis, who had been a successful business man as a civilian and who was now worth to, the country all that he received and much more. The Assistant Director of Base Eecords was 11 r. W. H. Montgomery .

llr. Witty: Can't you get someone else to do it, and let him go to the front? Jlr. Allen-. I don't know that he. is of age to go to the front. Mr. E. H. Rhodes: Ho is long over the age. Mr. Allen said that lie valued exceedingly Captain Vine's services, and he was admirably fitted for his work now of making the inquiries of peoplo coming to the office. But the organisation of tho office was not Captain Vine's work. That was a much bigger job than Captain Vine liad had to deal with. It was not correct to say that Captain Vine had been "pushed out." lie was retained in the Department. ' War Expenditure. Replying to Dr. Newman's question concerning New Zealand's war expenditure, Mr. Allen said that the total expenditure up till the end of March 31 was .£8,015,000, but this did not include the whole of the expenditure. There .were readjustments to be made with tho Imperial Government, and ho expected that these readjustments would entail tho payment by New Zealand of close upon five millions of monej. Tip to date we had spent here some ten millions, and the bulk of that had been obtained from England. Colonel HiJey. Mr. P. C. Webb asked whether Colonel lliley. General Manager of Railways, received any salary from tho Defence Department. Mr. Allen: Colonel lliley receives notbing\whatever. All his services to the Defence Department . are given voluntarily. '• Mr. Payne made a protest against men occupying ' purely civilian positions "parading round the town in uniforms paid for by the taxpayers of the Dominion." Mr. Allen: The main point is that we don't pay for these uniforms. Employment of Returned Men, Mr. W. A. Veitch wanted to know whether rejnrned soldiers were given preference always in employment with the Defence Department. • Dr. H. T. J. Thacker "objected" to the salaries of Brigadier-General J!obin and Colonel Gibbon, and he did so because of the replies of those officers to the demand for local camps made by a deputation of members of Parliament.. He. declared that the statements of the officers were ''truculent arid trenchant." He went on to speak about local camps, saying that file, case for this refof'ni hnd been proved 'by recent events in Chrlstchnrch, where more men were volunteering than could be taken into the camp at Trentliam.

The Hon. .T. Alleft said that a f.eir returned soldiers were employed by the Defence Department in tho Pay Branch, and a great many in the Base Eecords Office. The Department was giving these men employment as freely as possible, in positions for which they were fitted. Several members repeated the wellworn cltargo that the .Government liad wasted huge sums of money in fitting and refitting Union Company's vessels which were taken for use as transports. They also talked about local camps.

The Minister denied that there was nny extravagance in the expenditure on transports. It was true thjit while the Government still held the Union pany's ships on charter it effected certain running repairs, l)ut not more than sufficient to keep the ships in good condition, and not more than the company would do if it were running the ship!?. If the Government did not do this work, it would have a big hill to meet for depreciation and repairs on handing the vessels over again to their owners. Separation Allowance, Mr. H. Poland moved that the item Adjutant-General Branch, ,£185,108, be reduced by JEI, 'as an indication that the present separation allowances paid to the wives and children of soldiers on active service are not sufficient." He stated that the present rates of separation allowances provided wives and children with the meanest "starvation pitlance," and 'declared that while the Government accepted the services of married men, it had 110 right to refuse to provide adequately for improvements. Mr. T. M. Wilford supported the amendment. He said that lie believed the House would he acting rightly in holding up every bit of business brought on by the Government in order to force the Government to bring down proposals for paying reasonable separation allowances to children. It would not he impossible or even possible to get the money by taxation on war profits. or 011 taxes on the unearned income of the very rich. , The Hon. ,T. Allen said that he was sure that every member of the House desired that the children of soldiers should be adequately pro-, yided for. However, the policy' of the Government wns not to offer a special inducement to men with six and seven children to go to the front, but rather to discourage these men ' from going. What was the object of the Compulsion Bill? The whole object of that Bill.was to make certain that men with children should not go until all the unmarried men had gone. The effect of offering better inducements to married men to go would be to leave unmarried men to stay at home and shirk. He asked members of the House to support the Government principle of offering no special inducements to married men to go. Perhaps later, when all tlie single , men had gone, and-tho married men without children, 1 and with one child had gone—and this would be at least eighteen months from now—then it would be time to deal with men with four and five children. Best Right to a "Bonus," Dr. Newman said he would support the amendment. ' They were giving a bonus to the Civil Servants, and if . they needed a bonus surely the wife and children of a soldier deserved greater consideration. Increased rates would only mean about .£I6OO or .£I7OO a year, and it was idle to say that this country, with its surplus and the prospective XH.OOO.COO surplus next year, could not afford it. He appealed to the Minister to bring the matter before Cabinet, and see that this increase was given. Fail-:->g such a promise, he would vote for the amendment. These married men 'hould never have been allowed to go, lint they were there, and should he dealt with. . The Minister said that (he i'enaration allowance had not been given in the etrly stages nf the war because the. Government did not want married men to go, but. when they found that married men had en'.'" they gave an allowance. The r„arri?d man. nowadays, with iivo children wns entitled to\C2 19s. Gd. a week. Th» matter had been before Cabinet, and would be again. Mr. G. li. S.vkes snid he .would vole against the motion, because t was their duty to prevent married men from going. ■ Voices: They are there now. Mr. Svkes added that when it became necessary for married men to go i.c would support their receiving ad"qiiatc provision. He went 011 to argue that :ne natriotic societies should "come, to 'ight" and su"nlonient the allowances. Mi'. I!. A. "Wright supported the iranlinst ff increased allowances as h"ing demanded by the public. He thought the "blister might very well leave lo fhe N House the responsibility of increasing the allowance?. A Definite Promise. The Minister said he was perfectly prepared lo remit the question to Cabinet, but the amount now paid 'o a lean's wife and children was higher here than anywhere in tho world. We were now paying X4!),flofl ,a year for children alone, even at (id. a day. Mr. Isilt appealed to the .Minister to leave this matter entirely to the House. It was nreparrd to take the responsibility oft (he shoulders of the . N "ai.ional <''oWn"t. He would ha v e to ? inpori:, the .nnopdm<ml, although he couhl under- I stand why the Minister must consider i f his duty , to follow a policy of caution. The Hon. W. H. Herries said iie hr.ped | tho amendment would be withdrawn in , view of the fact that the Minister in I

charge had given a definite promise that he would submit the matter to Cabinet. Unless the House wished to distrust the Ministry altogether, it could surely leave the question to the Government. Dr. Newman: The Government might him it dawn. llr. Hcrries: And the Government may turn it down if tho amendment is carried. Tile mere carrying of the amendment means nothing. .. . "We understand what is going oir now. 'J he allowanca is being made a stalking-horse. We know- perfectly well what the (,anie is. "A Vicious Attack on the Government." Mr. Isitt said that if Ihey pushed the amendment'they would not have as good a chance of getting what ihey wanted as they would have if the amendment were withdrawn. The Minister of Defence had promised to bring the 'matter before Cabinet and they should accept the promise. It was a hideous thing that party could not be kept out of a matter of this kind. Mr. Witty: It is not party. Mr. Isitt: It is; or else it is personal. Mr. H. .T. H. Okey urged tliiit tho amendment be withdrawn. Mr. Wilford denied that the amendment was a party move. If the House curried the' amendment this would not injure the Minister or the National Government. Mr. J. Colvin he was one of tho=e who would support the nmcndp'ni i f it were put to the vote, but he thought the Minister had actcd handsometv in promising to submit the matter to Cabinet. Mr. T?. W. Smith said that there was not a member in the Hous'fe who was not in sympathy with the idea of the amendment. He believed the amendment would not be carried, and he would not himself vote for it. But he hoped the Government would not take tho defeat of the' amendment as an indication' that the House thought the present allowances were sufficient For his part he hoped that t-lipv would ,be increased. flr. Newman said that he, too, hoped the allowances would be increased, but he was very sorry to see that the amendment had been used for a party attack on the Government. It was sheer hypocrisy to say_ that it had not been. The speeches 'of some members had been a direct and vicious attack on the Government and a direct attack on those members who were put in a hole by the motion. _ 'A division wa= taken on the amendfiVenf at. 1(1.50. The amendment was defeated by 2" votes to 1". The first item in the class was passed without further debate. Mr. Webb tried t~ move C" fn fh".next item. Gemral Staff Branch .jG1f1.420, as en iml'caHor, that the soldier"' rates nf nay and the pension rates should be increased, but the Chairman »s!cd h'"> to «luw what these .jun.tfors had to do "IKt the General Staff Branch. -.Mr. Webb tried =ev"-nl times, with the »«. sistiiiien of Mr. Witty and of.hp-s. to fi'vl sinie item on .whieli. be rou'd such an amendment, but he failed. The item w~~ nn < "-"d. i 'live di"nssio" on tho Defon™ I\sKlnnt.es e"ded ivifh some wwl talk nlKiiit alWp' l waste nf reigns i* l Tmi. t.ham end other "amo=. Tl'erenf'"" oonosilion sneedilv rnilnneeil. and the c'~-" was no==ed at 11 "1 n .m.

TKo votp for Ai?ririi"'iii , .\ Tnrlnstrios. awl rnniKißroe vns discussed at' some p---iflnr->lilo lencrth.

Tills votp was n.W(' 1 n.m.. progress. was reported. and H<n Kmse rose.