PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2778, 24 May 1916, Page 7

PARLIAMENT

WAR PENSIONS NEW BILL EXPLAINED MORE LIBERAL PROVISIONS The , House of Representatives met ■at 2.30 p.mi . Mr. 1\ M. WTLFOItD (Ilult) notic© to ask tiiG Minister in Charge of Pensions if he -wouid this session intro-' trace a short amendment "of the Old Ago Pensions Act to provide that during the war, owing'to tho increased cost of living, the old qge pensioners, shall have their pensions increased, from 10s. to 15s. per ■wee]:. ■ The Hon. W. D. S. MACDONAL.D gave notice of the "Whakatane Harbour Improvement Bill. The Hon. J. A. HANAN gavo notice of tho Invercai-jjill Athenaeum Bill.

WAR BUSINESS ONLY PRIVATE MEMBERS' DAY MOTION AND PROTESTS . The Eight Hon. W. £ AIASSE-5T (Prime Minister) moved that on and after Wednesday, May 24, Government business take precedence oil Wednesdays, and follow ■localBills:oh Thursdays. ,"I think,-' ho said/ "that tho reason for moving this motion must be obvious Ho every member of the House. It is simply this—that this session is intended to ue a war session, . that it is intended to deal prineipaily with,.nsatteni of urgency arising out of the war. Two orThree: of .-these Avar' measures are on the' Order Paper now, and there is 'also the - Military Service Bill, which will come along presently. It must be obvious to members as it is to tho public that at a time l'ke this, in the middle of the most serious war in history, wo should not dovote two days of eaclt week to such matters us genevally "appeal oil the Order Paper on those days when they, are;given to private members' . Bills." Mr. Massey also stated that; he was advised that there was not more than six ■weeks'supply of paper for tho printing of Hansard, and that it might' not Impossible to get any more of it. Personally, he would not object to,the discontinuance of tho printing of Hansard, but perhaps it was valuable for tho country's records. He had been asked .by quite a number of m«mbers to move this motion, early in -tho session, 'and. he knew that this olso waj the desire of the public,

'Mr.' T. M. WlLlilOItl) (Hutt) said he v.'oidd do all ho could to help tho Primo Minister to get through, tho business of the session, recognising that no good end could bo served by obstructionist methods. But. ho would like to have .a definition of what war business would be takeu to mean. -Did it include the cost of living -and the taxation of war profits? He -urged that these were questions which should concern the Government and Parliament during this session.. Would war legisla-. tion include such, measures, as would" be required for ih» taking over of munition factories like tho woollen mills? If the Government would define what-they meant by war legislation 'members i( ; ould sit day und night to put the-business through. • ■ Mr. J. PAJTJiB (Grey Lyau) protested strongly against the motion to; de'privo private, members of their ' already limited rights. He could not . admit any ■; reason ■'. for liaste; Was the business being, hurried because two men to , get .away to tho Old Country "to blow off a lot of hot air,"imbibe champagne,. and talk the, nonsense Jthat-is usually-talked on.such.occasions"? Later ho declared: "We are blighted with -the rottenest set of politicians that 'God ever put breath'into. . . . Wo Britishers', are a rotten crowd." • ' Another of'his statements was: "Parliament is.' olie" 'of the finest places on earth for a man . to got a reputation for being clevcr and even learned."' He suggested-that,mem-•bers- of : Parliament should- fire'-iu their ■resignations wholesale to the Speaker, and so force the Government to deal with the cost, of living and other problems. • . '

./ ill'. C. H. POOLE (Auckland West) ot>(jectcd to ivhut |i# tanned tho upplic-a-tion of the gag to private members, declaring that the private members' Bills now on the order paper were all dealing .with war measures. .He opposed the mtc tion, although ho was otherwise anxious to support tho National Government.

Mr. .G. WITTY (Kiccarton)' also took exception to this motion to. slop freo\ criticism and suggestion.' He demanded ,that the Government should deal with the cost-of-living .problem. It Va's not ifair that tho rights of private members should lie encroached upon so 'heavily. Mr. P. C. WEBB (Grey) said that he objected to the motion because ho had prepared ready Tor introduction a Conscription of Wealth Bill.

•Mr. 11. A. WRIGHT (Wellington South) raised objection to tho absolute deprivation of private members of their rights. He had never previously introduced a Bill, bnt ho had.' introduced one this s-ear, and he (lid not like to have his little bantling dono to'- death.- Ho reminded the Prime Minister that he (Mr. M-assay) had in' the past fought valiantly for tho rights of private members. Right of .Criticism Not Curtailed. The liight Hon. W. P.'MASSEr (Prime Minister), in his reply, said that-judging by the nature, of ihe opposition to tha j motion it would havo a very easy passage. Ho denied .that the carrying of the motion would remove opportunities for criticism, but it would remove opportunities lor waste of time. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Payne: That is your opinion. Mr. Massey: It is the opinion of a largo number of members, and also of the general public. There wns no member, he continued, who wasted so much time as the inember for Grey Lynn.' The proceedings on private members' days in tho past, he said, had often been farcical nnd unworthy of the dignity at Parliament. It had teen asked "What are war matters?" Well, there were'two war measure Bills, the War Pensions Bill and Discharged Soldiers' Settlement Bill already on the Order Paper, and ' these would be followed very shortly by tile Military Servfco Bill, which wai now ready for final submission to Cabinet. J'hen what about the financial measures? . -Mr. Wilford: Yes, what are they? - Mr, Massey: The honourable gentleman ■will get 'tile Financial Statement, and he will then, see what they art!. During the past fortnight the House had had ample opportunities for criticism in tho debate on the Address-in-Reply, in which members had discused everything from Dan to Beersheeba. Then: on the Financial Statement members would be able to dis--cuss everything that they could possibly wish to discuss. In connection also with every Bill brought -forward,- - members would have tho opportunity of speaking' on successive readings as well as at tho Committee stage. The object of the resolution was to. get on with the business of Parliament as quickly ns possible, . Other. Bills. Mr. Wilford: Do you think that! want to prevent you getting through any wbt measures? Mr. Massey: No, I do not. ' Mr. Wilford: Do you think that anybody does? /' Mr. Massey: i do not. I think that 'tho honourable'gentleman is playing a game. Proceeding, ho said that the War Regulation Act would require considerable alterations and amendments, and 11 ere would bo another Bill which was now being pre. pared dealing with numbers of matters related to the war. Local Bills, of. course, .would be dealt with iu tho earao way as -usual. In regard to rents, lie had alre_ady stated that Parliament would have an opportunity of dealing wit.h„this matter this session. A Bill on this subject was now being prepared. (Hear, hear.) War Profits and Cost of Living, Mr. Massey, in reply to an interjection by Mr. Wilford regarding the cost of living and the taxation of war profits, said that the legislation passed by tho Imperial Parliament in regard to the taxation of war profits luul proved exceedingly disappointing, the reason being that tho SO per cent, tax applied not to the whole of the profits, but Only to the excess abovo the average of tho three years prior to the vrai,,

.Air. Wilford: 'i'hey have got nine millions fiom the shipping companies. Air. \Massey: I kiwi* litey havo received a great deal at Homo, but the amount that would I>o rcteivod in New Zealand would be comparatively small. Xnis matter will bo dealt with in tho Financial Statement, and I hope that the proposals will bo satisfactory to tho House and to the country. ■ .... In regard to the cost of living, Air. Massey said tlmt this was a popular cry, but ooe of the greatest mistakes that could be made would bo for Parliament to fix maximum prices by Statute. , Mr. Wilford; But the Government Should keep its haad on tho lever. Air. Massey, said that the Government had watched carefully against cases of exploitation, ami where evidences of it bad been found action had been taken. Ono of the first directions given to tho Board of Trade was to look out for cases of exploitation. . Air. h'letchec: What about the price of butter at Is. "d. per pound? Mr Massey; That raises tho question Of whether the prices are to bo fixed according to, the export value or not. Neither imported goods nor those prduced -in-New Zealand could be produced as cheaply as before. Someone had said that tho cost of production had not been increased, but it had been very greatly inoreaewd. / Air. Wobb: What about _ ill'. Massey: Will any membor say that tho cost of producing meat has not increased? If he does, he ought to go into the country districts and see what ,1s talcing place there. The cost inery, oil, feed/ and skilled labour, aiw everything else- has ffOß© up. N A member: Does it cost foro to pto duco ft pound of butter than it did beio* Air Mns-sey; Y-&S. He added that lio would lilce to eee butter and meat sold at a fair price. No Government had done more than tho present Government to ktep down the cost of living. (Dissent from one or two members.) Mr; M'CaUuai: ■Party politics!llr. Alassey: No, it. is not party politics lam speaking for the National Government. Tho Government was watching matters clo.-ely, and was doing everything possible to encourage produc. tion. which-was the way to keep down prices. As an instance, he referred to what' had been done in regard to the supply of -wheat. The Government lad also taken good care to see that the workers were hotter aWo to pay the increased cost of linns; than they ot iw, wise would have been. There was hardIt a country ™ rJS. *5 ray the same thing. There would be a number of Bills upon which tho cost of living could be discussed. The Prime Minister's motion was carried by 35 votes to 13.

daylight saving bill. YET ANOTHER ATTEMPT. Mr. T. K. SIDEY (Dunedin South), moving the introduction of the Definition of Time Bill, made, a speech in support of his scheme. H« was able to point to the fact that it had been adopted as n war measure in England unal in many 01 tho belligerent countries of Europe, lie hoped tho Prime Minister,, who l-atlp™. raised to submit the question to Cabinet, would five ' him an opportunity- to put his Bill through. • , . Mr; fr. Y. PEARCE (Patca) said that tho pill was not introduced in England ns <1 permanent measure, but only ftO fl war measure. At Home the Bill fras opposed by the farmers, : but ac Home tho farmer, unfortunately for tho Empire, h-.i« Tory much in a minority, and so received very little consideration. In this country, however, the farmer v would have to be considered. It tho Bill should ever nass into law in this country there would Wsuch an outcry asainst ft that it would be very soon repealed. . ■ Mr. C. H. POOLE (Auckland West) supported the Bill, and congratulated the author of it on hie'tenacity in bringing it before the House.-

■ Mi-. W. NOS WORTHY (Ashburton) said tho'measure which had, for some years been brought before the House by the member-for -Dnnedin South was not" a war measure. He wouid_ oppose the Bill, and do everything' in his power to prevent its passing into law. Mr; ,T. Payne (tfrey Lynn), 'Mr. T. 51. Wilford (Hutt), Mr. A. Harris (Waitemata), Mr.' J. A; Young (Waikato). also snoko in support of tho Bill, snd Mr Sidpy replied.' \ Tho Bill was introduced and read a first time. , ;

• FIRST, READINGS. 1 •> The Nanier Harbour Board Empowering and Vesting Bill (Mr. J. V. Brown), the Thames Harbour Board ' Act, 1890 Amendment Bill (Mr. T. W. Rhodes), the Naturalisfl Subjects Franchise Bill (Mr. J. V.' Brown), the Abolition of NightBaking Bill (Mr. Payne),, were introduced and read a first'time. The Limitation c»Interest Rates During War. Bill (Air. Payne) was talked out at the 5.30 adjournment. ' WAR PENSIONS . 5 THE NEW BILL EXPLAINED' CONCESSIONS PROPOSED The Hon. J. ALLEN moved the second, reading of the War Pensions Amendment Bill, Before dealing with tho alterations intended, he said, he would refer to the scopc and work of last year's measure: AVhon the Act came into force the administration of it was found to be narrow, ( but tho board took legal advico, and in process of time began to interpret tho clauses more liberally. At first the board did not seem to be suro, in to the wife- and child, whether tho wife had first to prove dependancy before a pension could bo received. The opinion of the Solicitor-Genera! was given that the Act never intended this, and the board • corrected its interpretation of the measure. The wo;-ds "take into consideration the income of the wife," etc., were interpreted in, a , somewhat narrow sense at first, but latterly this was corrected.. The 'Act, it was intended, should be interpreted broadly, and in the last fow months that wish had been earned .out, and letters of satisfaction could now bo produced from all over New Zealand. The total number'of rejections of wives' claims in Tesp3ct of husbands who were killed was six, and of wives' claims in respect of husbands who were disabled was eight. The total number of rejections of claims wa9 G2. Certain other-claims had been reduced on account of the.income received by the wife. In no case, except one, had the wife of. a private received less than jJi, whilo those receiving ifil were very few. The ease of the woman receiving less tlmn £\ a: week wns that of a woman who did not live with her husband, nnd who was not maintained by him.' Tho total claims lodged by wives of deceased soldiers who dirl not leave New 'Zealand was three. 1 Two were rejected because the hiisbnnd wns not on military service, and in the other care the wife received vGRS for herself and £2l> for two children. Two mothers of deceased soldiers who never left New ftealnnd were now drawin? 4J2.8 per annum each, although in neither enso was dependnncy nroved. Ho thought t'<e country owed a.debt of gratitude to the board for their. careful ad■•nihistration of the .scheme. At "Rastertime the board nnve up its holiday, and ivent to AndcS* n.d and Rotoriia. with beneficial -™sults to tho soldiers who were interviewed. A Liberal Act. In the cape of totally-disabled soldiers the wife nnd children were-also, with one exception, receiving full pension as well as'the eoldiei himself. No ono who honestly criticised the Act as it stood could »ay that its provisions were not fairly .liberal. The pensions to soldiers varied, considerably, according an the soldier died in tho service of his country, or was whollv or partially di«. "bled. Three were receiving 20=. a week: R7. .fl a year; ia(. ,£52 a year: nnd PR. ,£7B a year. The wives of disabled "olflicrs had.been given liberal treatment. The maximum was 12s. fid. a week, and the majority received 15s. a week. So far as ibp present "Rill was concerned, it proposed M amend the law eonsiderablv, stifl inekn better provision', for the info »i.| ni-linr denendants of the soldier Til" first amendment denlt with those members of the "Flxneditmnarv Force who did not gn onl: of New Zealand. II: was pronosed to nlace a'l on militarv service .within New Eenland in exactly the same position, as those who, went to tho front. Important amendment's also dealt with

the soldier's father and mother. Tho limitations of age which previously existed were now being abolished, so that now any father or mother who had not adequate means of support could apply for a pension. The pension could also be granted in the event of disablement, as well as of death, and whether tho parents were dependant or not. Spccial provision was made for the widowed mother, who was being placed in n position similar to that of a soldier's wife. The only restriction uow remaining upon fathers' and mothers' pensions was that which limited it to not more than the wife's pension. A coneiderablj) alteration, was that which repealed the limit to a total pension which could be drawn. The restrictions imposed last year were practically null and void, and as a matter of: fact the old age pension had never been used to reduce tho pension allowed. In the case of a wife and children, a considerable alteration was proposed. Formerly consideration was extended to the property and income possessed, but that was now abolished, and the wife and children placed on the Bame footing as it was proposed to place the soldier himself. At tho same, time ho was bound to say that the principle adopted in the old Act was a sound one. Still there was a demand for the abolition of the restriction, and the Government proposed to make this concession. In regard to dependants a restriction would remain bearing upon income and property. Ho thought this was quite a fair proposal—that the income of a father or brother should be considered in relatioa to their applications for pensions. New proposals dealt with those non-dependants who, being without adequate means of support, had snlfored material loss either by a soidior's death, or disablement. This proposal would meet much a case as this; where a man - had taken a boy from a home and practically fathered him, although he was not related to him. When the boy went away as a soldier and was killed, the man suffered loss, .and the amending Act offered a" remedy. Another amendment proposed was the abolition of the maximum aggregates. It might occur, although it had never occurred yet, that the aggregates would reduce the pension payable in respect of children. It might be that , men with large or fairly large families would go, and it was right that the children should halve adequate provision- mado for them. Another clause provided that the' pension to a female dependant should cease on her marriage or re-marriage. Tho Act already provided that the pension, to a -widow should cease on her re-marriage. The passing of this clause would bring our Act into line with the. Australian and the Canadian' Acts, and so far as he knew all other Pension Acts. Still other clauses removed all residenco restrictions upon recipients of the pension. These could receive pensions now whether resident in New Zealand or not. Replying to a. question, Mr. Allen said it was very difficult to estimate the total added cost to tho State that the passage of the Bill Would entail. The total annual charge for the war pensions was ,£93,000. He did not think it wise to make comparisons between our rates and those of ,other countries. New Zealand was prepared to do. its duty to. those serving at the front, regardless of what other countries might do. However, ho would suggest to honourable members that would be quite as generous in its provisions as the amended Bill now before tho Commonwealth Parliament.

"Still Niggardly." . Mr. H. POLAND (Ohinemuri)' said he approved of the principle that we should lie. be guided in oiir assessment of what we should do for our soldiers and their dependants by what other countries ivero doing. He was ilisuppointed with the Bill in a measure. There, was not a single thing in the Bill which was not urged upon the Government during -last session of Parliament, and tho concessions wera now granted because of tho continual prodding to which the Government had been subjected by members, and by newspapers during the recess. He did not agree with the Minister that the country owed a debt of gratitude to the members of ch« Pensions Board. Tho men who constituted it were paid to do their duty, and there the obligation ended. But the board had been very niggardly in its administration of. tho Act -for some months, und it was only under pressure that a more liberal policy was adopted, and many of the decisions were reviewed. Ho repeated tho piotests made by him Jast yca-r against tlie payment of different pen. sions in xcspect of soldiers of different rank. He did not think tho present rates of pensions payablo to- private soldiers totally disabled, and to the widows of soldiers killed, were adequate. Ho scoffed at tho idea that there woro financial difficulties m the vajr of granting more adequate; pensions. The toj.iil now was i25)3,0u11. Uist year it wau said that, the total churge on the revenue in respect ol' war pensions would bo a million a year. That was a mero bogey.

■ Mr. Alien: .'flio men are coming back. Mr. Poland: But a great many v of them are coming back alive, I hope. Mr. Massey-. I sincerely hope so. Mr.-Poland said that oven if the total charge sliuuld be more than a million, he know of no more proper chargo on tho revenues of tills' uwn'try. He disapproved very strongly of. giving pensions at different rates to widows of soldiers of different ranks. Ho declared that the Govlerrunent was proposing to treat our soldiers "in a niggardly way. Ho hoped the Government would agree to submit the Bill to a SeWet Committee., The Mimber for Grey. Mr. P. C .WEBB (Grey) said ho too wa's disappointed with the BUI. JIo said the country was so,- prosperous that it could afford to pay liigMr pensions, and higher wages to soldiers. The- present rates wcro insufficient to cnaWo the dependants of soldiers to live in decency. The Government had no right to ask men to go and leave their dependants ' at tho mercy of a lot of food pirate 6." He declared ! that if the Government would deal with exploitation, would pay men decent wages, and would guarantee decent pensions, there would be no need for conscription. Tho GovCTompnli whf.'U they attempted to put conscription in forco would havo, more obslacles to face than they imagine. Mr. .Webb went, on to talk about-a great many things not even remotely connected with the Dili. More for the Children? ( Dr. A.- K. NEWMAN (Wellington East) said he was very glad tho Ministry had . inproved the Bill, particularly in regard,! lo pensions by right. Tho absence of this provision from tho Bill had had a grave effect upon rocvui ting. .He thought the Bill was .1 great improvement, bi^t 1 lie could have wished to see it better. However, lie realised, that tha Government must have ansiety about the financial position. No ono know. exactly in what state tho finance of the country would be in »■ year or, two. If the war onded, as ho bolieved it would, boforo Christmas, -then our pensions' roll would hot be very, large, and Parliament would be able to increase the rates next year If, on the other lmnd, the war went on for a year and a half longer, and Great Britain suffered financial strain, the price of our produce would go down, arid we would be compelled to pay increased taxation -out; of reduced income. Meantime the present rates would servo, with one excoption—'the pension allowance of si. a jveek to overy. child. He did urge tho Minisler to bring down an amendment to increase this very- insufficient allowance. ' * i The Hon. D. BTJDDO (Kaiapoi) said he did not think the pension of 255. was onough" fur tho widow of a private -soldier, but ho would accept this, although unwillingly, in the meantime. Howover, he would press, for an increase of the pension rate of ss. per week for the children of soldiers (rilled. End of the Debate. Mr. J. V. BROWN (Napier) said that tha Bill was better than ho had expected i'j to be, but it was still not quite good enough. Ho urged that the pension to a widow ought to be increased to 30s. a week. Also ho disapproved of those provisions in the Bill by which the pension to a widow should cease on her remarriage. Ho gavo notice that when the Bill was in Committee he would move curtain amendments. Mr. T. K. SIDBY (Dunedin South) pointed, out a number of detail amendments- which, ho suggested, ought to bo mado in the Bill. Ho argued that the rules of pension payablo under this Bill I>j given to tho South African veterans, Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) said he regretted that tho amendments now pro. posed had not beon inserted in tho Bill many months ago. lie pointed out that although the Bill improved tho position of the widows who had incomes, under it the widows who had no incomes were

in 110 better position. Tho .soldier himsolf was no better off under tho Bill. Ho suggested tlifvt a wife who, beforo her husband had enlisted, t ha<l been guilty of adultery, ought not to have a ponsion. Mr. J. CRAIGIE (Timaru) said that tho amending Bill was a groat improve, mont oil the Act. Ho had found tho boaTd very fair and obliging so far as tho niiods of his district wire concerned. Ho thought, however; the pension to a widow might be increased to 30s. a week and tho child's allowance to 7s. 6d. a .week. Tho cost of living had gono up and the fact uught to be recognised. At 11.15 the adjournment of tho debate was moved by Mr. •A. H. Hindmarsh, and tlio House rose at 11.17.