THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2775, 19 May 1916, Page 7

THE HOUSE

THE , ADDRESS-IN-REPLY

The' House of Representatives met at E. 30 p.m. .Tho. various Ministers gave notice of their intention to move setting up the sessional committoes. INTERNMENT OF. MR. FOCKE. | '_Mt. J. V. BROWN (Napier), in a question without notice,.. inquired of the Minister of Defenco if the, rumour that Herr Focke, the late German Consul in Wellington, had been interned on Somes Island was correct.' ' \ The Hon. ,T. ALLEN: I should think it is probably correct. PETITIONS ABOUT EARLY CLOSING. Mr. L. M. ISITT (Cbristchurch North) inquired if the' Prime Minister "would facilitate the hearing of petitions to the House asking for the early closing of hotels, etc. .■The Hon. W. F. MASSEY said that , the petitions referred to would probably be referred to the Petitions Committee. Notice has bean given to set up most of the committees, and the petitions referred to would probably go before' it:" , NOT A GERMAN. By permission of. the House the Hon. J. Allen, read the following telegram from Captain Hotop, who had been the subject of a question by Air. J. Payne on the .previous day. The telegram • was as follows,:—"John Payne's statement about myself . is an infamous lie. My only brother died fivo years ago. I have no relatives fighting against the Allies. (Sgd.) F. Hotop." . . [Mr. Payne's question was an inquiry

as to whether Captain Hotop was a German with two'brothers in the -German Navy.] ' ■ *• ■

When the telegram was .read) Mr. Payne ejaculated: "What is his nationality?" -

The Hon. .T, ALIjEN : I also want to say in regard to certain questions given notice of to-day by the member for Grey Lynn that I ask' the public to suspend their judgment and not be influenced by the suggestion that the persons' mentioned are of German nationality ttntil they hear the full 6tory. ' Mr. PAYNE: That is all we want. We Iran the whole story. Mr. Payne further aslccd the Minister of Defence to say whether Lieut. Grierson had left New Zealand 'with the Reinforcements. ' • Mr; Alien: Yes, he has left New Zealand as a British commissioned officer, and an, honourable gentleman at that.

' CONSCRIPTION ISSUE DEBATE ON THE QUESTION I: Sir. .J. lI'COMBS (Ly ttelton) .resumed the debate on the Addre&s-jnlteply. .He commenced, his speech by referring to tile prices and supplies of'wheat and flour. Last year, he remarked, they had tie Prime Minister doing his best to 'boom prices. The Prime Minister: That statement is absolutely incorrect. . . .Mr,. it' Combs: Jt is on record that in ;Januar.v, 1D15; the Prinje Minister made the. statement that there was not enongfr' .wheat-arid flour in the Dominion to last .until November. ; Mr.'Massey; That is what the Government Statistician reported. ' Mr. M'Combs said that while the figures were supplied ■to the Frime Minister bv the Government Statistician, we could not get away, from the .faot. that the Prime Minister made the statement that the, sup. plies were'not.sufficient to last until November: ' A subsequent., census taken' showed that on October 31 there were 8,280,000 bushels of wheat in the Dominion. and. that there was enough" flour to last a month. At the'end of March,1915; the stocks, of wheat., amounted :to '4,365.000 bushels. At the. end of March of-this-year the quantity was 4,633,001) bushels: 'As there no shortage•last ysar,. 'there : . was no. seed to draw the inference that there was likely to be a shortage this ■ year. He protested against any member of the House helping to boom the-prices of wheat and flour and:to thus =keep' up' the'cost of ljvjng,,

An Unexpected Champion. . On defetjce'.topics Mr, M'Combs revealed himself as a champion of the Hon. ,T. l ;-''Tlie .Minister, of Defence,"' said, -has .made, mistakes, but,-as has b§en„ said, he has delivered the goods and as .a . member of Parliament I want to Pi™ it ajamst some, of the slighting tactics that have_ been indulged in during tt S 'iS rCEhr<l f not all .'like that, it «' i Combs: We know that when the National - Government was formed there ifi S^ a i! "fri* SflfiljtontUng that Mr. Allen -should be the Minister of Defence £7 belong; to a 'party thnt took no part w T at \ on of the National Govern, ment, but I do protest as an outsider— as. one .not supporting the National Go-, ernment,.except that I have given them all the support that ! could in regard to maters of defeuce r against the attitude S "P-../ h not,endeavoured to make the positiqn of the Minister of Dcfewc ;vx more, difficult than it. is.( When I have Knvl .? a V- Wante<l luting right I have gone to him or to his Deonrthad the-matter settled. But I especially deploro a matter referred tr if blamed for• ""lis but whenever he scores a success, such .as the super-camp a t Feathers ton, of oourse the credit .is not giyei to ,Z'! (Mr. Mnwey: Heaj; bear.) Well, I reckon that that kind of criticism is the essenoe of meanness anrl inconsistency. (Hear, hoar.) ' thisf Wo taOlT lvil ? he is saying

Tr ■ M'Combsi My position in this House is perfectly clear. I would vote tho National Government out to-morrow if .there were .reasonable opportunity of noing so, J merely want to see fair nlav lam opposed to the National Government I?eoai ' s ® I believe it is the t 1 ® 9 ' failure as a Govornment that we have ever hod m New Zealand.

Conscription and Cost of Living, Tofmcd to tho. cost'of "living, n? ™ if " so fttr as tllß question hls concerned, the' Na- ' A , ha , d , bceu a Mure. had_ been set up in a tardy but it had done nothing. As. a matter of fact, the purchasing power of a.KOvereign had depreciated more durw°^ 8 formation of the National Government than Hon™ months prior to its forma-

Mr; M'Combs claimed that Great Britain 7MlotSi er t ISnlg iT "pon New Zealand to send tooops, and there should: feiP9 , co W U ' SIOIL by the State upon the individual. We heard, he said, a good deal about the last man and the last shilling, but he thought this Parliament was more willing to force men to firirt and ®°r>fico their lives, and half their incomes than to taio measures to secure the last shilling. Wo wero practically borrowing the money to send these troops away, and the onl y alternative proposal made by .one section of the House was tho' raising of a local loan upon which our,soldiers would eventually -have to pay interest. Yet there was actuallv coppehtion to secure the introduction of coiißcrintion. ■ Why should New Zealand partionlarly go in. for compulsion? Wo had given moro men in proportion to population than any other part of ' tho Empire. The Prime Minister hold at first that the war would bo over, in six months, and ho offered one brigade. Later a rifle brigado was sent, and now a third brigade had been formed out of accumulated- reinforcements.

Mr. Massey: Do you object? Mr. M'Combs: -I am not objecting. I am saying that the country which hns lr.ade such a magnificent rcspouso has no right to linve the indignity thrust upoft it of- having it said that some of its manhood _ had to bo forced 'to the front at tho point of' the bayonet. Mr. Wilford: What about temporary compulsion ? Mr. M'Combs: It will become permanent. ■ JJv. Wilford: We must get tho men. Mr. M'Combs: Yes, nnd you can get them by paying your soldiers not less than is paid to the best paid artisans. There are 20,000 men in this country who are physically lit, but financially unfit. Let the Government make them financially fit, nJid all trouble will cease. Unfortunately there is in this House a desire to conscript life, but not to conscript wealth. Thin talV of ' national service and distribution of sacrifice! A voice: riffle. Mr. M'Combs: Yes, it is piffle, when you find that the .Government intends to conscript ono. section and one section alone. Mr. Massey: What suction? Mr. Payno: The ono that won't hurt your farmer friends.: Mr. Massey: There will be no exemption for members of Parliament.

Mr. Payne: I will go whop you go—in the Old Crock Brigade. "The Arch-Compulsionist." Mr. iU'Combs was further discussing the question' when Dr. Thacker interjootwl: Toll us about the Defence Minister. Ho is the archcompulsionist. Mr. M'Combs: I am not suro that lie is the arch'-compulsionist. If I had to name the arcli-compulsionist in the Government I should name Dr. M'Nab, who advocated it on every platform on which ho spoke. He went on to criticise the proposal to send away nil our young men. because wo were unwilling to make it possible for married men to go by giving them sufficient pay and separation and pension allowances* . The Inevitable. Dr. A. K. NEWMAN (Wellington East) said that ho was against conscription. He had done his best ag&iast conscription all through the recess, but now lie had conio to the - conclusion that it was inevitable inordSrto save this country, and he was going iijto the lobby to vote i'or it. Every oounu'y in the world had adopted conscription, except Chiua.' We must be right .out. to win this war. We were up to the neck in-this war. But .'alter we got. conscription we must have equality of sacriiicD. The men who leave dependants belaud tnem must be properly provided for. We had not equality ot sacrifice now. Many men were making sacrifices now, whereas the rick . p&ople—ol' whom perhaps he would ba numbered as one—wore making no such (sacrifices. The House ought, to' have last year insisted on pensions by right, and this year, even if it meant the downfall of the Government, ho would go .into the lobby to vote for it. (tlear, hear.). . Ho ridiculed. the Speech put into the hands of His Excellency by the Minister, and kept the.House in a titter of laughter for some minutes, it reminded him, he said, of an epitaph lie had read in a churchyard on baby: "Since I was so soon done for, I wonder what I was begun for." (Roars of laughter.) He was.gravely disappointed that at a time when the country was -so sorely beset, when so piany burping questions were at issue, the Government Jiad not come- forward with some important proposals. . Not Satisfactory. 'The fact was that th© National Gov-! eminent was'.not very satisfactory. The House said, "Let us abolish party." Party was abolished now, and ."How do the ilouse like it?" He was strongly in favour of an increase in the pausiou rates, especially to children,' for whom -the allowance was grossly inadequate. , ' . He also thought the Government should have given the House a'lead'on the drink question. It was deplorable-that soldiers back from the war should be led astray by being treated by friends oiit of mistaken kindness. In every, country in the world which was now at war steps!had .been, taken to regulate the drink traffic, and he thought -that in tlfis country we Should at least put ah end to' the iniquitous -custom pf ''shouting." The Cost of Living. He was very sorry that the Government had not done more to keep, down the price of food,-for the cost oi living was a problem urgently requiring the attention of the Government. He thought the Government might easily have bought butter, meat, and oats and other commodities in. common use at timos when they were cheap, put them .into 6toro, and allowed the people to have cheap food. Butter might'.easily .have been bought at say Is. id. ... Mr. Massey: That would mean Is. 7d. to the consumer. Dr. Newman: Not if the Government eold it. Mr. Massey: It would bo that unless ■we sold at a loss. ■ Dr. Newman, said that he believed but, ter could have been bought for less than Is. 4d. ' . Mr. Massey:. Well, I placed an order for 50,000 bojes at Is. 3}d„ and I couldn't got it. Mr.. Wilford: When?: Mr. Massey:. About two months ago.. Mr. Wilford suggested tlwt the butter could have been bought eiiylier at Is. Id. Mr.' Massey: Not this season. I have teen watching the market very chjsely. Dr. Newiuaji' said that, ho bel}eveil that the.rent!-problem, was nowhere acute except in Wellington. Probably this was because Wellington was a progressive city, an attractive city. . • Dr. Thacker; No. It is camp monopoly. Dr, Newman: Oh, no. Before the war our city was filled, up, and building was going on extensively in Kelburn and the other suburbs, and still rents were-higlv; He added that ho was not at all sure that the remedy for the present high rents would be easj*. ' Dr. Thackeri Give us " concentration camps. ' .' ■ Dr. Newman: Ohi, that was all very wolj at. one time, but as everybody knows the trouble is to get • the men into any camp at. all. , . . It is no uso talking about local camps now, because wo know that all the men offering are being taken into camp as quickly as possible.

A Local War Loan? Ho thought it .'.was time tlio : Govern, meut oollected some .of the war, loan here. If the Government wanted a .war loan of ten or. twelve millions !he thought this would be beyond the oapacitj of this country, .but ho thought-.we could raiso p, Joan of, say, four millions. Wo should raise this money' and reduce the charge on the Mother Country.- AVe should try to. pay some. of our own war debt. It was tlio -fashion to 6ay ; "We have ' eleven millions of surplus : ; exports'—war profits—but it was not the fashion to say that wo 'had borrowed ton millions against it, and he thought some of our yar profits should go to pay our war expenses. More of the debt of the war should be paid for by taxation, and not by loan, as was our present policy. Mr. Poole: It is a crime. Dr. Newman: It is all very well to talk of it as a crime'. I don't think it is a. crime, but I think it is an unwise policy. He appealed to the Prime -Miii, ister to take the opportunity-during this debate of making a statement outlining the policy of tho" Government. The people of. the country - wanted very badly to-know the Government's policy, and they would follow any leader who would now propound a vigorous policy and follow it. They were heart and soul in this war, and they would stay it out, however long it might /last. Compulsion the Best Case. Mr. J. G. COATES (Kaipara) emphasised the time of crisis through whicli tho country was. passing. Advocates of compulsion ho believed had tho best cage. The conscripts o£ Prance and Russia showed the< value of organised defence. While we had the voluntary system it was every man's own business as to whether or not lie volunteered.- But it was necessary to secure men, and n chango had to come to place all in li position to do their duty properly. We had not so far grasped the situation properly, and he hoped the Compulsory .Bill,-when .it came down, would place all on a level, and reduce exemptions to a minimum. Tho Government should take hold of the position strongly, and let tho people know the necessities of tho time. The. conof opinion in the country was that conscription shoukl come.- Touching on taxation, he condemned the idea of an oSport tax, and ho also held that the farmers'income tax-form was too complicated for many of the farmers. He believed in tlio tax, but he wished the form could be simplified. The farmers wero doing well, and did not object , to being tiixod-for war purposes, "Tako all we have got," said Mr. Coates, "so long as you win the war." He condemned the harassment of men in New Zealand of German origin. While they behaved themselves they should be left where they were. He condemned the outcry for local camps. They would be quite useless institutions, as the military authorities had declared, and tho agitation for tlicm was purely a business one, based on a desire for <-E s. d. Mr. Coates announced that ho was- going to tho war himself. Pay and Conscription. Mr. A. WALKEK (Dunedin North) said he regretted' that tho Government hod not agreed to increase - the pay oi soldiers. Ho believed that' if this were dono there .would be no need for conscription, and he feared that the adoption of oonscription would lead to trouble-in tho country. Ho spoke of tho cost of living in much the same way as the other Labour critics of tho Government.' He

suggested that thero was Some sinister reason for the delay in the appointment of tho Board of Trade. THE PRIME MINISTER REPLIES TO CRITICS Tho Right Hon. W. F:'MASSEY (Primo Minister) rose at 8 p.m., and at the outset congratulated tho mover and seconder and otiier members on their speeches, remarking on the fuct that within a few weeks one of tho speakers, Mr. Coates, would go into camp. (Applause.) Ho wished aim good lucK, and said ho hoped that Mr. Coates would net be the last member of Parliament to enlist. In this connection lie thanked Mr. Brown for his readiness in giving a pair to Mr. Coates. Ho also thanked tlio Jlouse for its, practically unanimous voto of confidence a few nights previously. Ho noted with interest that the member for Hutt. had beoorne a convert to the State Hank and paper currency idea. Ho would advise honourable members to approach this question with caution. He agreed .that .a. certain amount of paper currency was a convenience, and tliat paper currency in war-time was a necessity. But it was essential that tho paper currency or i;suo should bo backed by a bullion reserve,: and that more should not be issued than could bo absorbed by tho population, In Amerioa the issue of paper had been too great, and' the paper money had depreciated. Voluntaryism Not a Failure. Tho member for Hutt had also eaid that the voluntary system He did not agree with the "honourable member. Tho system which had given to this country 60,000 men—the men : who had fought in Gallipoli anil who were now fighting in France to-day—could not be said to- have failed. It might not be adequate to our futuro requirements, ,but it had been adequate up till the present. .Last lrfonth's reinforcements wero filled; and judging by appearances this month's draft would be filled also. Tho .Government, however,. had to make provision for a long time ahead. The war might continue for a very long time, and- the' Government must make provision for this.; He'did not speak as ft supporter of. the voluntary system. He was a supporter of national service as advocated by Lord Roberts, a'system which-would compel, every youth' to' undergo military training for a certain time, and would make every man liable during military age for services in-'war. He hoped and believed that'after the; war the Empire as a whole would see'the-wisdom of biinging . a system Qf national service into operation.' (Applause.) 1 . He stated, in reply to Mr. Witty, that it. was not Correct that the Board of' Trade . was ' making large profits >ut of New Zealand meat sold in London. Ho believed that of recent months the board had made some, pyoflt, but it wag not the intention of the board to'charge a profit. It cost about 2jd. per lb. to send !ne<it .to the market in Loudon. " And the only meat., sent Home outside . of-that sent to the order of the Board.of Trade,- was in a few parcels sent by patriotic peorde for special patriotic objects, and for exhibition at agricultural shows in Britain. ■

• The Governor's. .Speech." •' Referring to the remarks made:'by Dr. Aewman regarding absence of details of firLr'c°5 er ' Um , eD \'? 1)olic;i ' the Gov-' hnn JLf? ' M^ WaSSOy wid thal the hon. gent eman ought to know that it was not, naual. to give - these details in the' bpeech delivered by the Governor at the openiug of larliament It was not done' mf® mn ?.' o{ dn Imporial ParliaP i. 0 l yof Government m regard to the- war, he said, was to keep up the supply of properly trained and equipped men to rT Sl f™ n s w. ?tll ? l ' sttJe9 of the Empire It was quite possible, if another roTOrse occurred such as that which had- occurred in -Mesopotamia, that it might bo necossaiy.to send more men. ' If that wore so they would bo . Sent, but ono thing that was perfectly certain was that not one man less would be sent than.'were noiv nnH®(S > r Vftr K H'e prominent with trflol - s lu , co, inccti.3n , with the Gallipou oampßign, ho.said.that' ho had not the slightest doubt that whatever form. tho. terms of peace took Gallipoli, or,at,least that, portion in whici we were particularly interested, would pass under the, control of tho British people, and, particular l ? those portions tL ft'ont" 1 " 1 ' 6 ■ sont Allzac,s to

, Mr. Wilford: Don't forget tho 29th Division. 11 Mr./Stassey: I not forgetting anything. I givo every credit to the' British soldiers who fought shoulder to shoulder with us, We aro all British, but wo can,"°'l> thinking first about cur own soldiers. (Hear, hear.) Unv/ortliy Attacks. Mr. Massey went on to refer in terms of repet to the fact that, any officer in tlie > Now. Zealand Forces shou|dbe spoken ,or ni tuo Jiouso as -"a pro-German man,Mr. Horusby: It is very unfair, ■ Mr. Payne: Do you know how many forces*? 15 Pt through into tho Mr.. Massey said that a largo number ot people wo, causal great mental pain bythese unt'oiinded assertions. "Such tactics, lie said, "aro mean, cowardly,' contomp'tible--{H«ir, hear)—artd I lidpe that thoy will bo discontinued." Mr. Payne: "They will be when you up all tho Germans. ; Mr. Massey said that lie'had'no sympathy .for. people who were .disloyal or traitors, but ho "would be no.-party to any persecution. He would shoot or hang 'the Kaiser with the greatest of tut would not porsecute him. It was quite right that all necessary precautions should be- _ taken, and ' they were being ■ taken. If it should be necessary to shoot a naitor, lio would authorise that , being done without the slightest compunction. He _denied that our soldiers were carried in horse-boxes. The vehicles. were open trucks, specially fitted up with roof and sides and windows and lamps, which were used at excursion timos in all parts l of New Zealand, He was sorry thero was not a. sufficient supply of carriages, but the Department was doing its test. Cost of Living. It had been suggested ?n. regard to the cost of living that' there were serious reasons why delay had occurred in sdtting up. tho. Board of Trade. . Tho time was' occupied in calling for applicants whoso qualifications fold, to bo examined. This took time, but there was no intention of delay; _ He'admitted that the cost of living had risen, but it was in sympathy with the cost .of production; Freights and -insurance had risen, and the rise was unavoidable, and also. its reflection on _ the life , of - - tho community. Their first'duty was to the Imperial Government; and to keep tho country prosperous. Ho .maintained that had been .done.-''Tho';cost of living in New Zea-land'to-day was less than in nay otherpart of the.Empire. He did not wish to' make comparisons '-with Australia, but .the fact was that,not was, the cos) of living less, but wages were also higher Pensions by Right. There had beon talk also about pensions by right. ' It had becomo almost a slogan'. He did Hot know .exactly • what was meant by "pensions by right." He had asked many, but 'none could exactly explain. All the depondauts—father-in-law, mother-in-law, and so on—could not hope to receive a ponsiou by right. Ho firmly boiicved that thero should be .a pension by Tight for the wife, no matter what her income wos. Tho Act passed last year was a very good one, and would bo vastly improved this, session. They were told; that in Canada tho separation allowance for a wife .was JEI a week. So it was, but thero was no allowance for children. Taking a. wife and- four children, ho showed that in New Zealand they would receive ,£lO 10s. every four weeks, as against c£B os. in Canada. Complaint had also beon mado of the allowances for officers. 'lie know of men who had gone to Australia, and found out too late that thfeir treatment there was not as 1 good as it was here. Officers received .£25 tor their equipment here, lilt in Australia they were given only .£ls, although lie had seen it erroneously stated that it was .£3O. Our Wheat Supplies. He denied the allegation made that ho had been responsible for the rise in the price of wheat. He had told tho, farmers last spring that ho would give thorn a free hand on wheat. Tho prico went up to 7s. a bushel—an exorbitant price—tho reason for which ho did not know. Woll, some speculators held on and refused to sell, and -when the price fell they. were

bitten. That being tho case, they had no right to complain. Tho suggest;on whicn liad boon.uiuuo that tho uoveruincut should Have commandeered a coupio ot ships lor wheat only showed how little was known of the situation. It was not guiieruiiy Known mat lor the greater part oi the war tho Uovernuitnt had nad twolvo large smpi Holder its control, carrying soldiers, supplies, and horses to Lgypt. ' 'ihe number was not so great now uecausu tho nuwuer ot horses required was not so great. Diihoulty had buen experienced. •in securing tho shipment oi ims. '.these diincmties about smpmouts were so great tint now ho never lelt suro about tho dispatch of a sjiipmoiit until the vessel had. actually letc tiio wharf, iie was glad to say that ho hoped to get a Ml snip oi iiax away, early next mouth. (Hear, hear.) Conscription of Wealth. What Hid pcopio mean oy conscription of wealta: 1 .Was it suggested that tue Government should lake all tuo money in tue i'oat Oihce Savings ijimK? Voices: iNo. Mr. Massey: Is it suggested that we should taiio all the money in tho other banks? oicesi No. Mr. Massey said he was glad to near honourable members', denials. Presently cney would agree with him. j,t this wholesale coiuiuauueoriug oi wealth were to htipen, there would be such a slump W tais country, sucn a destruction oi continence, as -the country would not re. cover l'rom lor a, very long time, it, however, it should become necessary, tue Uovernmeut wouua tako all the money it needed. An nonourablo member: How many do you think would support you in mat/ Mr. Alasaay: I uun't care two -pins. He went on to say mat the Government, did not need all the .money, and tnereiore did not need to take it. Last year tue Government nad ta'kun two millions, ana' nobody had really lalt it. Ho dia not know wneuker tno Government would want more this year; that was the business or tho Finance Minister, who would tell tne House about it at the proper time. ■ If more money should be required he presumed that the Government would got it iu inucii tho same way os last year. Mr, Wiiford: It is proposed to tax war profits? Mr. Massey: The honourable member, will get his answer when the Financial Statement comes down. A Reply to Charges. Mr. Massey. went on to reply at length to . certain charges' by. Mr. Anstey that the Government had failed in its duty to soldiers by negiecting to provides land for them. The charges , had special refer, 'enco to the subdivision of the Benmore Runs ill North' Otago. Formerly the runs were occupied as one holding. It was alleged that the Land Board and the Government had allowed the 41 subdivisions into which it had been cut to fall into tho hands of speculators, absentees, and land aggregators. l Mr. Anstey had- said .that a great deal of the land- was (it for' settlement ,by soldiers. Mr. Massey l . said, quoting from reports of Depart, mental officers, that the' land'was steep summer country, much of it.from 5000 ta 7000 feet high. The honourable member had gone out in a beautiful motor-car, ona beautiful sunshiny dny in December,: with a very satisfactory hamper at the' back, and. of course everything was lovely. (Laughter,) He said that, tho land was subject to periodical Heavy-falls of. snow. In 1895 fifty per cent.;'of the sheep on the' country ■ were lost. The average Igas of .'sheep was 10 per cent. In toil years the loss wag : 171,000 sheep. And of all tho block the flats, of' whioh,. Mr. Anstey had spoken with most approval, were the worst, be-cause-in snow tiwe the drifts were deepest. Tho. safest country was on the 6teep faoea, whore the snow would not lie Mr. Massey read a letter from a settle: who had traversed Benmoro in ona of tho worst winters it' had ever nuffored, and •at that time eyery living thing, inoluding hot only sheep but- rabbits and were frozen to death over, large tracts of it. This was the country tho honourablo gentleman wished to ■ have. reserved for. soldiers! In, point of fact tho Government, had reserved 23,000 acres of the best of the land" for soldiers. He had soma fears as to whether ovon that land was suitable, but'ho hoped the soldiers would make a success of it. He would'remind the honourable gentleman and the House that tho lowest point of tho Benmore was 1400 feet highland that tha homestead'was 1700 feet high. Mr. An-, stey had gone there along the main road beside the run, perhaps over somo ut it, and in mid-summer, but there was about as much' dilferenco between Benmore ii| December and Benmore in July as there was between Tiroaru and tho South Pole,

No Time for Wrangling, Mr.' L. 11. ISITT (ChVistchurch North) : eaid Ixg was glad to noto in tlio speeches of members indications of a real desire ta give up party strife. Whatever the faults ofi the National Government, honourable members and tho people should realise that it was the only Government possible in New Zealand just now. On .tho Reform side no man could oommand a following comparable with, that commanded by Mr. Massey, and tho same was true of- Sir Joseph w«d and the other party. An appeal to tho country would be the maddest thing 'possible, and would be resented by very many of the people. He believed there should be no election until, ths men camo back from tho war, when they could have a say as to who was to pvorn the country. . It was nonsense to talk of tho formation of a new party. There was no one in Parliament to lead it, and no man outside of Parliament, even if he had the wisdom of a Socrates, could' come in as' head; of a new Government He could not do it without Parliament. ary ; experience' of procedure and so on, and also for another reason—that the othei; members would not allow him. The member for Grey had said that be had never wanted a National ' Government. Could the honourable member tell him what member of the House did want a National Government? It was not desired, but it was necessary. Also, it was desired by tho Imperial authorities, JNow, it was foolish to expect the Tory members of that Government to become suddenly extreme' Radicals. It was futile to criticise on that basis. But thers ought to be critioism, and he would contribute his share. However, he thought i T as ,r-' e ?' y wro ?S' to single out indivi. dual Ministers in tho Government' for special criticism., '

Waste on Drink and Gambling. It was ,-i scandal 'that after nearly twa years of war we,were still wasting yearly, between ,£6,000,000 and - .68,000,000 on gambling and drink. New Zealand was the only portion of the Empire which had increased its racing days during t'ho war " know that- the. same money passed through the totalisatbr time after time, but he also recognised that you could not limit racing expenditure to that upon tho totalisator. He had scarce, ly reached Wellington ore he found a prominent racing man concerned that the bovcrninent was doing nothing to limit the growth of bookmaking. > This Was an inspiring sight after two years of War! We had no right, if we wore patriots, to waste nearly .£4,000,000 upon any amusement, however' innocent it might be. Racing on tho whole was a gam. bung machine, and the Government should certainly limit the number of racing days during the war. Ho fully recognised the patriotism of many, rac. ll^. nl ® n !, I}U , fc 110 wged that no amount of individual generosity on the part o) racing men or clubs could alter the faot that racing was a drain upon the finance.! of tho people. That being so, it should be restricted. Then he caino to the twin evil of drink. If wo could not afford : to spend «£'•]■,000,000 a year on racing, then : equally we could not afford to spend it oil drink. He would not say anything; against our soldiers; but equally he would say that we owed them all the protection possible. Ho cited an experience at Trcntham, where an officer had assured luni that he would swear on oath that the efficiency of the camp • was reduced by 10 per cent, on account oi tho liquor bars. The same officer said that out of fiO men he had under him five • were incapacitated for military, service be. cause of evils which followed upon drink. I'ho House had beon petitioned fto secure early closing % hotels, and he did solicit tho earnest consideration of the Government upon this question. Local Borrowing ( He disagreed with the hon. member for Hurunui in his appeal for tho raising of a local war loan. Ho did not agree that such a stop would benefit the Old Country, while it would possibly do us a

great deal of harm. The agitation worked up in one section of the Press was the purest fake of public opinion that ; was possible. If wo once started this local loan business it meant dear money, and the last thing wo could afford was dear money. "I don't pose as a financial expert," Mr. Jsitt said,' ."but I want to. say this: Before I came up from Christchurch I was interviewed by merchants, by auctioneers, by timber merchants, by lawyers, and they said to me, 'For Heaven's sake protest against local loans, for it spells ruin to a great many of uis.'" It would mean ruin, said Mr. Isitt, to a huge number of smidl investors. He believed that it was owing to tho present Finance Ministor that the rates of inter- • est had not been raised. The debate was adjourned on the motion of Mi\ R; and the House rose at 10.53 p.m.