PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2773, 17 May 1916, Page 7

PARLIAMENT

THE J

DEFENCE? MAIMS:

ADM!NISTRATION' CBtJJCISED,

i '■-.'..'■ '■ ' <"? : ' :v/. v ':' 1 1 ■•;•'. -'. ■ ■,:., The House-of E«present(itiveg- met > at' ;•; 8.30.p.iuj , _'.:";■"■..," - -..;,..:;. : .. • _The_New Zealand Insurance Company's .Trust Bill, 1916 (Mr. J. was -./...introduced and read > first time.': " '" i 4': Mr. T, M, WILFORd' (Hutt) gave no- : .;- - tic-e to move that with,,tho"object of as-' .. .sisting-iu the-development, of trtfdo with- ; : ; , :-,',;P onal^Ministry ;.;be,asked'.to 'appoint" at ; , once a Trade-.Commissioner in -England, •■:»;■ to" devote, special attention.'to'the'pur- ;•' .chase, by J\ T ew Zeaiand ; of British gob-ds/in; .;■ order to 'prevent-this:trade "drifting agaiii ; ■- intor.Germaii.-han'ds. ~. Mr.. Wilford siig- ,' gested .that the.:'-Higlu Cominissioneiv was

required to give'most.of his'time to New, '. prodn'ce-.for salo. : in,Britain;; Mr." \ AVilford; gave-.notice of,.;ano{he'r.. motion, volso suggesting the desirability of the re- -.. Vision .of. the .tariff, with t'ho • object of fostering. Imperial trade...- r'." : :.'-. ,-■ -Mr.-"J.-PAYNE (Grey-.Lynn): gave no;_ticeof the Abolition of.;Nigb.t Baking Bill t and the Limitation ..of Interest Bates During War Bill. ■" . v •-'■-■ Mr;"'E.; NEWMANS (Rangitikei).. gays ■' notice to -ask the Mimster.-of ■• Railways' whether, he'will at, onto suhway -under, the railway on? .the, Main Road near : Marfcon. i:- He s'tated;that; three lives: ' had "been lost ■[ recently.by>' accluents 'at the 'crossing, and in-one of tho,. dises damages amounting .to wereattardt' ed against the Railway. Department. CIVILiSERVANTS ENLISTING. ■ ■ Mr." R. FLETCHER- (Wellington, .Central) - asked the Prime "Minister Whether- . he would ogreo to Civil Servants''enlist-" ing receiving half-pay.',while on. active .service.'.-' He said that.he believeaVtlie .other ; Civil Servants: would"willingly.-fore- ; go anyw;aT "bonus if this 'concession'were -granted., < .-■-.•'■ ••.■..- •-■■•'•.-.-•M .';-■. Hon: W. F. MASSEY.'said that this was a question, 'of . which', notice : ought ■ to be given.: Z. It.. .was too import-, ant. to bs answered out of- hand.

: 1: ;t LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Four days' leave of absence;was grant-ed-to '-Mr. E.: F.' Bollard ''(Raglan), and -thiee days' leave to'.Mr. C. Parata. (Southern Maori). • '•.. i, ; ; GOVERNMENT' ;■■■] "'.'■• ;;CKITICISEp;'';V:,'.' ■ /iiNrohLEAsf RksmNei''': ; The debate on- tho Addtess-in-Heply, was resumed at 4.5 p.m: . > Mr. J. C THOMSON (Wallace) 'said that he. was very much .indebted to" .the ; Minister of. Defence for. the opportunity' to visit Fcatherston Camp-. ; He was pre-pared-to believe thaf. the statement that..the camp was;the,best;in' Australasiawas ■ a commendation''well'.deserved. •, He; was, very .sorry,; however; that- the;. Government had not kept control of the can-, •teens at the cainps.' He contended'that tho' exploitation now going, on by the over-charge, of /.soldiers.. - v in;. • the can-, teena '/was very .serious,-menacing the good order -and. discipline in the camps. At .Feathorston.; there had been; already a very serious riot, -and "it was due altogether to. the extortionate prices charged in. the canteen there. ..He criticis> Ed: the Government.,adversely on half a score of, heads. The .'Government '.. was"

talking economy, but he saw ho'real evidence of it. ...Work .was stopped on some railways, but not'onTotners, and he alleged'preference in favour,of. certain, railways not in' his "district. '-'In-'any case-it was not true economy. to stop public works. .The National Government had not made one bold stroke in all itsj administration. -It,had simply chosen -the line of least resistance. Why had'it not, when the difficulty occurred' at ■ the Petone Woollen Mills, taken control'.of ..'ail 1 -the faotories' making, clothing for-our troops? There had been a shortage .'of shipping,; lad this, should.havo been foreseen long ago. Why had;- not the Government ■ bought ships twelve or-eighteen months »go,; and carried on with them a profit- , able trade? ,: - " J t Mr..Massey (laughing) ::Rubbish. •- | Mr. Thomson spoke .especially of the ioss of .money by : tho non-export of flax. . Mr. Massey: While you'have been here in the House talking at the top of your 'voice I have been arranging to get the Has away. Mr. Thomson'declared that wealth had • not-been made-to bear its fair-share of the burden of .the waiy; There'should' have been more, taxation" of .'war profits by means of an' export' tax, and.; there should : Blso.be a progressive income"tar. ' ' • "Last Man and Last' Shilling." . Mr. G. WITTY (nicenrton) complained of the paucity of ; the Governor's Statement, as,the.circumstances- of. tho time called for -a-full 'review' of the situation. The mover of the Address had congratulated Now Zealand on its prosperity, but; he for one refused' to agree that the country was doing well-when, only. a few peoplo were securing extra .'profits. He agreed that this was a war. session, and'the main work was to send men to the. front, but other work required to be dona in tonhection with our i<y mestic affairs; ■ Tho principle of the last man and'the last shilling'was.acceptable,? but while an effort was •• being. made" to

collect the last man, no such.-Kimilar ef-: fort w r as apparent in" regard -to the last ehilling. The railway should not be condemned (as some were inclined to s do) for seeking their rise/Itathor .'should- the "Government bo-, condemned, for not. tack-' ling the puestion of the cost of living. He had liointod out the urgency of.this:poiiit to the. men at Addington months, ago. The pfcition now was that one section had received.' an increase ,' (for which 'he did not. blame them), : while the Test of tho ..--.country had to-bear the burden of that 'increase.. jOli the, recruiting question, he also held that the fault Jay not. with the men of the "Dominion, but with the Government.;.He didV:not sW much, believe- that the Minister of De-

•fence was hard-hearted as . that tie was ■"' suffering- from.an , idea that .ho 'was to New Zealand .irhat Kitchener was to England; -. Mr. Allen might be suffering from stubbornness, but the,rest, of the Cab- . : inet was suffering .from',.weakness; Heinstanced the request *of a : Ckristchurch ■ deputation for a local preparatory camp which had been placed • before ,Cabinet : when Mr.-Allen carried his own will. The North' Island had seven camps and the ~;. South midland had none. Was it fair that » , the '.''relatives of,- tho South Island men '\Hhou!d have to travel to the Jforth Island to see. their boys? Who received this boneßt?.. The .Union. Steam Ship : l.ompauy. ■ ■■• ■ , Mr. Allen: We have not seven or eight ■ camps. Only, two or three. . ' Mr. Witty ; You had eight or nine, but T<m reduced them. He alleged that "in one contingent v men had been sent away insufficiently trained, and'this in-, sufficient training would, have been avoided had local preparatory camps been in ■ evidence. Bytho r absence of these camps ■ thousands of men had been lost to tho Defertco 'Department. '': Mr. Witty proceedt. Ed to criticise.the medical examination, ■s and. the lack of facilities extended to the . men for securing treatment to make them fit. Between 700 and 800 men had left Canterbury and enlisted in Wellington,' and Canterbury, received no credit for' them, if the Department bad taken tho . men as they offered there would have been no' need for the cry of conscription "■which was now simply an obsession of . •- the Hon. Minister of Defence. But if conBcription came, conscription of wealth must also oome. If the Government had proceeded on proper, lines there would be no need for conscription. (Hear, hear.) He proceeded to contrast the treatment of the.interned Germans' with that ex- ■ tended to tho returned, soldier,' who, . when he was discharged,: received 30s' for a suit. Was that fair?. Delay also. occnrreiF in connection with the pay-' • ments to the men and to the women and children—faults which should bo obviated. Mr. Witty, touching on"'war profits! said that the Government'should' have ' dealt with the inereased wealth o£

.£9,000,000 which had come to the country from 'wool, biitter, mutton and cheese. Surely some of this money should have been secured by the Government. ■'. Mr.. Witty said .that ho hoped there would.be no exemptions under the Military Service-Bill. Ho had known of cases of men buying land for their sons in order that they-would not bo compelled to serve.' He thought the Government should insure, every soldier for ,£IOO.

Not Above Criticism

Mr.'.C.E.'' STATHAM (Diinedin Central) said that - a groat many- quest-ions .which had been made, tho vehicle for t criticism" of' the Government were such as, might .'have..been quite easily settled as 'between .members and Ministers, with, out tho -necessity for. much talk about them in the House. Ho did not say that tho National' Government was beyond criticism'..;' He .wont on to say that ho believed "the Defence Minister had been .too tardy 'in the introduction of some or, his.reforms, and,he wanted tho Minis- • te'i' to"know it.' But, judged by general 're-Milts',-. :t)ho National Government, <10-6.eryed 6.eryed a great deal of credit. It was idlo to. expect -tho Administration to bo free of: extravagance .and waste in war time.' All sorts :of costly experiments liad to be made, not only with money but with nien's lives. 'There had not been_very .much .extravaganeo or waste in New. Zealand.. ';Ho had never been in favour of .the .formation of tho National Government, but after it was formed he thought he was in.duty bound to support it. He hoped the' Finance Minister would" consider very.-carefully the . of raising a, local'loan::, . ••' / - Mr.. Isitt: -Some of us will urge him •'very strongly.:not.to. "•'Mr. Payne:;.'.And: nineteen millions of .su[)e'rlliious. : ;cash here! .. '■••>•'.■'."' Mr. Stathain; -said- that all , members must '.be more .or less in the dark about tho 'question :until- the' Financial Statement.came down. .'He .also hoped the Minister, would:take''.his.courage in both hands and set about' foxing war" profits. H«. was in favour of -a. temporary export tax. There was a clamour for what was called, "conscription' of' wealth."\ If .it was understood that ..conscription' of wealth did not mean confiscation Vof :'vealth, there was n'othing in the cry, becniisn conscription of wealth existed now,' It was'only a question of'degree. • There -.were.people who believed that the Governshould go r about taking all the ! property -of rich men.- - This, of course,' would do-no good even to the poor man. It would drive capital; out of the country and make tho last state, of the poor man worse' than the first'. ; '

The Cost of Living. .the post of living, h,e said that the problem-hud. baffled statesmen and legislatures throughout the world. Even • in. Australia, where prices had been fixed by the Government, the cost of living had increased by 40>per cent, during the-war period'. The fixing, of, prices had 4 had the effect'of shortening supplies,, and I prices had risen in spite ,of all the de- . crees fbting.priccs. Even the cmnmandeer- ! ing.of. the--wheat crops in Australia had been a failnre.•■He hoped the Government would attack with ■; caution' the question' .of tariff rovision.lo foster Empire trade. Wo had. in:' New Zealand a great many industries that we would be better with•out, a?d;it .would be well to devote our attention I 'in.'future to industries which really belonged to our country. The boot industry was one 1 of • those' which was very expensive.-.to New Zealand. Every time •a, man bought a.,pair of .boots ho paid from ss. to-7s. 6d. moro .thaii he would otherwise-havo to pay*, because of the duty levied- upon thom. He would net advocate the - abolition of ..the -duty' on bopts,:because, this .would mean the de'stTUction,; of the'industry altogether, but he,.would- caution the Government against increasing, protective duties. Ho would like to see., co-operative stores started by ! the 'workers to reduce exploitation; "to eliminate the middleman, and to cut down .'the cost"'6l,-.distribalion.•: He did not be-, lievevthis work should be undertaken by the State,-.which--was a: very, extravagant administrator. Possibly some, good could be done by municipal effort. He did not believe .in legislative shortcuts to reduced cost of'living.,- " y y ' Defence" Matters. '--, He hn'd not -in- the past favoured compulsory military'service, but ho had come to the conclusion.that.no man had a right •to the privileges of citizenship' unless he \vas willing to servo his country, as a soldier. After the war he hoped to see established some system of Imperial compulsory service. If the British people had listened to the advice of that, wise old counsellor, Lord' Roberts, many thousands of.lives might have been saved in this war. He was,.in.favour of local camps, but ho had no* answer to the statement of .the military authorities that they were inexpedient. ■ He . disapproved also of the selection of such young officers for the forces. He could:see that when his turn came to go he would perhaps have to go ■under the-command of his office boy! He thought'too many young officers should not be senf, for the men going now in the ranks were for the most part older men than-those who-went in the earlier con-, tingents. ' ' ' Defence Details. Dr. H, T'. J; THACKER (Christchurch East) spoke at length about.the welfare of soldiers and the steps that ought to be taken to ensure it. He advocated pensions by; right, to dependants of. soldiers. . He thought' our men of the rank and file, should have had more public l praise for :.their great, part in tho'success of. our defence operations; for which it was the custom to. claim all credit for the Defence Minister ■'. and the General Staff. Ho' Defence Minister to see what .could 1m done to reduce the overcrowding which undoubtedly had existed on all transports. Although he thought the Defence Minister had- been improved by' Criticism he thought it- would be wise to-establish a War Council, of, say, three member's, including the Minister of Defence. ' '-" "' l» Our War- Mistakes. •-..'■ Mr, T. A. H.-FIELD (Nelson) said that I Germans ,of. influence in the country should be interned. He also referred to the presence'of- meiLand officers of German name in our forces, and Held /that it would-be far better,to. refuse the sen-ices of the few hundred men! in this ' 'category'rather than have thisf trouble about them," 1 and_ permit unrest to be caused.. aniongstT a very large section of '..the community; 'to fli'o "detriment of recruiting. He cited a case of a -member Of an Australian contingent being, as it was' alleged, shot for tampering with shells, ' and' it .was' also said that at the famous/landing on April' 29,. 1915. which was'supposed to be secret" tho enemy was fully prepared., It was not so well knotvn that a somewhat similar incident occurred' on; August G, in connection with'the big advance m'ado then. As a matter, of precaution to prevent our warships firing on our men, it was arranged that they'have a .white armletj a;; white badge oh the, back, and each JiiiHalio'n.was provided with.red and bluo flags; The men were ordered not to'put tli'sse armlets' and badges on' till dark, vand yet at daybreak next morning it/was ■reported .that were similarly provided, and word had to be 6ent to tho' warships to savo'them firing on tho men In this- war there, liad; been too little nftentioii paid to the enemy's preparations; in New Zealand too little attention was being paid to possible 'onam? spies. Why, ho asked further, had inentber3 last session been asked not to speak on the Trentham report? , ■ Mr. Sta'ssey: Who asked that? Mr. Field: A member of tho House. Mr. Uasscvi: It was done unofficially., the'-. Mr. Allen: Tt was 'not dono by mr orders. Mr. Field .complained of the lack - of rifle practice given to our men, and further said that he hoped the Government would make a very strong protest to Iho British Government against the quality of tho food-.s«pplied to them on Gallipoli and in Egypt. Ho.-instanced the statement made by Mr. M'Callum that somo of tho goods packed by a South Ameri-can-firm, wero hot of first-class quality. The men had now gone to France, where the food would be better, but there «crn still men' in Egypt, and their needs should be seen to. He understood that hundreds of Our men liad died on Gallipoli simply because of monotony' in the food supply. He also complained of the 'quality of 'food supplied on the transports. .. Tho bread hid sometimes berni bo sour that the men had played tho 'T)en<l March" in "Saul," and thrown it overboard, The meat had also been bad. The food, on • the inward transports with sick and wounded' was likowise'bad. .'

• Mr. Allen: What transport are you -referring t<f? and I will hayo inquiries piade.

Mr. Field: Practically, all of them. Mr. Allen: That is not very definite. Mr. Field said that the Government should have bought the Ma'heno iSd the Marania instead of chartering them. They could have used them as-ferry steamers afterwards. Ho believed tthe time was coming when the State would be empowered to nationalise any monopoly for the public good. , After citing .. several instances p'f difficulties about saloon,'passages for returned soldiers between Wellington and Nelson, Mr. Field said that he did not think the country was getting a fair, deal from the Union. Steam Ship Company in this respect. Mr. Allen: Thoso difficulties bavo been' remedied. . The Farmers' Viewpoint. Mr. C. "J. TALBOT (Temuka) commended the Government for the heroic measures it was introducing this year, especially that providing for compulsory service. He. himself believed in tne voluntary system for a variety of reasons, but he was glad tHe Government was iii— troducing a Compulsion Bill to provide' against the possiblo failure of ; the volun-' tary- system. 'Ho hoped, however, that tho bulk of the men wo would yot require would be found by voluntary enlistment. Ho-hoped/tho Government would impose extra taxation, and in this connection ho declared that farmers had never, as some suggested, opposed tho war taxation imposed upon them . Inst year. Mr. Talbot spoke • about wheat-growing, discussing the problem of the supply of bread stuffs as a national one, but from the farmers' viewpoint. He complained also that someone was making money out of meat commandeered by the Government, but sold."in tho market at Home, and not supplied to the Army. . He did not think the. farmer was getting -a square, deal. Mr. Massey: Very well, if the -farmers say the word, I .will stop commandeering lamb. I don't want to send a single carcass away. Just say the word. Mr. Talbot .'.did not Eay the word, however. He'went on to speak, of another subject. At 11.20 Mr. Glover moved tlie adjournment of the'debate, and the House rose.