ALIEN TEACHERS

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2587, 8 October 1915, Page 6

ALIEN TEACHERS

VON ZEDLITZ CASE A MYSTERIOUS LETTER THE BILL PASSED . In the, House of Representatives during the course of Wednesday's-all-night-sit-ting, tlie Eight Hon. W. I l '. Massey moved the second./ reading, of .the Alien Enemy Teachers Bill. He said he did not propose to make a.speech on the Bill, because 'he «;as sure every ifoember in the House had made up his .mind how to vote on ;it. It I might be said that there was not the. same [urgency'.for the Bill now aswhen it was introduced, .because .a 1 certain gentleman .had resigned his position; but the Bill was of general application. The question at. issue was. as .to' whether.it; was right or' proper under the present circumstances that an alien, eseiny should be'a teacher in'a public school or a university. Ho felt 'very sfrorigly "off .the subject, and he felt, that- it was-neither, riglit -nor proper for. 1 an alien enemy -to occupy one of these positions., In Australia' the . question Had: cropped up lin regard to 'two uriiver-,; sity teachers.''- .There the governing au•thority took,action, teachers v Te-. signed: Trouble mieht' have been avoided if that'couise'had been; followed here; But he did not propose. ! to follow that, point ■ further .: , : s :

Mr.' ,T. M. Wilford; (Hutt).; said that he thought it. .mas a great pity'that the [Bill had not .been,,introduced ~long- ago. ■ Of' ,'ratlier he would, have -preferr«l to have seen"a one-clause Bill, introduced'at tho begmping of the war to tho effect that all alien "enemies-shoiild -be interned. Then the Government might have had a discretion as to.exemptions..' But Mr.'Voii Zedlitz certainly 'came .ivithiin the .definition of an alien enemy,, and Mr. Von Zedlitz would have had ho right to object, or complain aljfliit'..being interned. ' Probably-he expected.internment. , A great deal, of discrimination bad been shown in regard - ' to the internment;of aliens. Why, was: the-ex-German at: liberty?..' ■' ' . ■. . Imperial Practice. . ,' The Hon.. A.''-'.lj. Herdman (Attorney-Geh. said' .that : the original instructions given ;by- the Imperial-Government to the New Zealand: Government were. that':all German: or :■ Austrian;; reservists, shoiiid be'. internc-d, ■ and-, that all other aliens, who could be vouched for were to be allowed to go' .free.,' ; Then .a few' months ago the. instructions were varied. .The. second or,der..n;as.,that.all naturalised aliens were, to go,'free , unless were a danger to the State, and that all unnaturalized wire.to be interned unless they could,show that' their .being at- liberty would not. be. a danger to the State. These instructions had been followed.' ~- ~■ - ; , • :Germans at Liberty, i ' -. Dr.- A; K. , Newman (Wellington East), said, that he approved; of the: Bill, 'but he' was, sorry[ that . it' should have been . c'on6idered'necessary. It-seemed to him that the' -.Government .had ample:i'powers to, interu:.; "-Mr. -. Von. ; Zedlitz, . and' in ; his . 'opinion , ' Mr.' Von- ZedliU- ought;-:. to have : been ' interned. The practice, with, regard ; to internment was*;such,-as... to"piizzlo the public.' . In,offensive -men : who'.had '.been in' the. country;' for 40 .-years; were -now on Soame3 Island,-. On the. other I 'hand Mr. Focke, the .German Consul, 'was. interned' for a definite; offence,- and then' to the' amaze-ment-of'everybody he.was liljerated after a month. ij He . wished' to. draw attention also , to the' ifact :that it -was frequently 'to him that; Germans were from : tiuio ;to time, being admitted 'to. military, camps.> Some 'were'being inado ..missiohed, ofßcers, and they were 'the cause,of.;a,igreat deal of, discontent and trouble., ;■ - •;. : : The Incriminating Letter. ••ri'Mr, A'.- H.:: Hindmarsh (Wellington South) referred in ' general terms -to a letter written by Mr. Von Zedlitz at the. outbreak ;of> war, to- a member of-the -Ministry, which letter,: ho said,- should have-furnished the Government with sufficient, reason... for taking action very much earlier. This letter had not been made public until recently;. and the' Minister should at least have , communicated ;to people who interested themselves in the defence of Mr. Von Zedlitz, that- they weTe supporting the' case of a .'man who, on his , own admission, contemplated at the oiitbreak of .war, offering his services to Germany. , ~ ', ,■ ' v Mr.: Massey inteh'ected : that he had never.seen tho"letter-until' yesterday or the day , before. He had heard of it oh Saturday for tho firet time. Mr. Hindmarsh accused the Prime Minister of introducing, the Bill -under' pressure' of public opinion, merely with the /idea of courting; popularity. He ,(Mr. Hindmarsh) would support tho Bill.' .. Mr. E., M'Callum (Wairau) described tho letter of, Professor, Von .Zedlitz as "a slip" which in no way detracted from his character. But: after that letter was pubhe property he could no longer champion .the case of Mr. Von Zedlitz., Mr. Von Zedlitz "had, however, never offered: to .fight for. Germany against'his adopted country. let the House not be too harsh Von Zedlitz. If there , was any blame attachable to, anyone it should be attached to the Victoria; College Council, and espec-ialy to the late chairman of the Council, who had : withheld from the Council the first resignation 'of Mr. Von Zedlitz on the outbreak of war. A few weeks ago Mr. Von Zedlitz resigned amin' but that resignation was also held back. lEmally, Mr. Von Zedlitz resigned for the .third -. time, a; few days ago, and' this resignation was to be accepted. He hoped that the bitter feeling would soon die down, as he hoped it would after we had .won a few victories.. '

:;; Mr.'.-.' .-■ W. . .-Nosivorthy-' (Ashbnrton), supporting the Bill, said that he deprecated very strongly the attitude taken up by the staff , of Victoria College, ajid the'other people who had supported Mr. Von Zedlitz. ■ . .

. On Fraternising with Germans. . ;Miv P. C. Webb (Grey) said that the Prime Minister ought to enlighten the House as' to the contents .of, the-niysteri-' ous letter to which reference had been niade. .;/= - Mr. G. Hunter (Waipawa) repudiate<[ -a suggestion'that after, the war we, would be fraternising with Germans. Ho wished to* say for his part that he would never, fraternise with • a German, or knowingly: speak to,a German so;longas he. lived, i -An lion, member: It is the same after 'every war, YoU are hot, the : people of New Zealand. . ; ■ - - .

-. Mr. Hunter: Well, I say, as a New Zealander wlio has had -relatives' killed fighting -for the Empire, that I never intend to speak to a German again. Dr. Thacker (Christchurch East) corapli. mented thp Prime Minister, on having introduced the Bill; . The Tradition of the British.'

Mr. A. S. Malcolm (Clutha) referred to the letter of Mr. Von Zedlitz to Sir Francis Bell; and he' did so, to correct possible misapprehensions. It was >rne that . when war declared by Germany 'upon . Russia, 'Professor 'Von Zedlitz thought of going 'to .Germany and offer, ing his services in some non-combatant capacity. . But as soon as war was do. clared between England and Germany Professor Von Zedlitz had'never been in the slightest doubt about .what he should do. Ho had never , contemplated talcing up arms against Britain. Mr. Malcolm hoped the House would .remember the tradition of the British people l —a tradition of being a just people. Ho believed that a University : Council, less daunted by the clamdur of the streets, was . a better body-to deal with this case than tho House. Ho objected to interference by Parliament with tho administration of au educational body. " No Discrimination. " The Eight Hon. W. I\ Massoy said that there:was little in the debate to which he need reply, except the vicious and characteristic attack made upon him b.y the member for Wellington South. Mr. Hindmarsh had accused him of concealing information which should have been given to the public. He (Mr. Massoy) repeated that he had not the information to which Mr. Hindmarsh referred until Friday of last week (nbt Saturday, as lie had -previously stated). When he beoame possessed of that information it strengthened him in the opinion which he had always held that Professor Von Zedlitz should not bo. allowed to hold the position that ,he still occupied. ■ He denied absolutely tliafc ho had ever wavered 'in his determination to go on w-ith tho Bill, or that he had been compelled by public opinion to Jwim.. IK' WHJs&t

emphatically that any' discrimination had been shown between difference classes of Genii;wis. If tho Aliens Board had recommended that Mr. Von Zedlitz should be'interned, Mr. Von Zedlitz would have been on Somes Island or Motuihi now. Distinguished Germans were on Motuihi now from Samoa. Mr. Wilford: There are some pretty big Germans at Samoa now.

Mr. Masscy: And we're got our eyes on them. Mr. Wilford: There is a good bit. of trading there now. , ' Mr. Massey. said that he believed this, was so, and he hoped that the Minister of Defence would shortly be able to make a statement on the subject. In reply to Mr. Malcolm's objection to the. interference by Parliament in tho affairs of an educational authority, ho' said that he too,did not approve of, this sort of interference, but when an educational, authority failed to do' its duty what was the Government to do?- He liad-hoped right from tho outbreak 'of'war that the-,College would accept Professor Von Zcd'litz'a resignation. ' The Bill was read a second time, reported from Committee without amendments, read a third time, aiid passed. BILL BEFORE THE COUNCIL NO.-PERSONAL APPLICATION. In tho Legislative Council'yesterday Afternoon, the Hon. Sir-Francis 801 l moved tho second reading of the Bill, and np-" pealed to the CQuncil to support tho Government on it. Ho mado it clear that the Bill waa not aimed. at a particular individual. The rule that, unnaturalised enemy subjects should not be employed in the Public, Service had been agreed to, and observed,. but there .were certain, institutions not controlled by the Government. There were, educational institutions were- partially supported' out of money '■paid By the'.State, and: it'would be idle to say that a-rule applicable to tho Public Service was not in its essence applicthem. It-was for the Government, and not for any public body, to determine . the. attitude of the Government, in time of war. .' That was the "attitude the Gov-' ernment had taken up.; The sujgestioii had been made that there had been some individual feeling' against Professor Voii Zedlitz. That was-'not correct. The Government at-the .outset of the war accepted Tiis parole, and lie' (Sir Francis" Bell) believed; most: sincerely that ,he' had never failed :to observe'- tlmt parole.; But that, had nothing whatever ■ to, do; with , the point. ; He had accepted parole' of a number of others 'whom the-. Government , had not allowed to continue.in the Public- Service. • Tltey .had .not: interned every itfion enemy, ; for .those. v;hose word, could be taken had ; had.their parole accepted. Probably the parole had ,been accepted of some whose word;should not havo been! accepted, but that had not been an error ! on the side of tyranny.- Every effort had been made to grant' to the alien enemy as full: protection, as possible under the ?roclamatibnof the King., It was quite possible to argue that there was no dinger,in permitting alien enemies to stare in' the. tuition of youths, especially grown youths attending. ..universities,, but in these respects . the: Government bad the' right- to the support of Parliament and tlio people: It was .quite natural that there should be a chivalrous sense of. the hardship of a rule as it concerned certain individuals, 'and-it'had'been painful to turn off aliens .who Were doing 1 their work faithfully, and: who couli not get other' work outside. ' No .Exceptions. . ' However, _ there could-' be no exceptions to tho. riilo, and however much they might be criticised; in; regard--to'other .legislation '.the reasonwlmthey claimed to-be free'from| criticism, at present in this re-' spect was that -they .ivere in possession of i information which it was impossible to communicate. :■ He ; did . not. say. this ■with regard to any individual, but they had matters to guide them, and certain instructions which it was absolutely impossible, to eommunioato to; tho public. In' the'so matters thi> ! public wero not so well able to judge as trie Government;, . The- Hon. Sir ■ 'William ' Hall-Jones thought the' Bill was a very,proper measure, and'.would have the.'. supnort' of ' every member. . It' only .lapptiea. -to 1 ' urinaturalised' enemy, subjects,-'b'ut it appeared'to Mm- that tbere. might be naturalised Germans' with, relatives; fighting against us, and' they should riot be allowed to 'Occupy positions Of' trust. . ' Tho Hon; J.' G. W. Aitken said that he was not going to oppose tho Bill, but ! he thought the' Government would.have been! well advised'to have put in,a clause-simi-lar-to that which- he: believed existed.'in the Bill: passed" in -England,';by : which: : Germans' were " given. :tho;.prMlege to -Naturalise themselves after.; the .•war'-.- broke out, and 60 declare, hoiv ,their syjnpathies 6tood. . ' ' . • : "•'•;

6COOU. 7 ■ The Hon. W.,Beehan: And.havo a.prop of spies. ■ \ ■' .'- . Mr. Aitken did not think human nature was so bad :as some people seemed to think.' They thought .that anybody in any way, a little bit German or Austrian was bad.' He thought the Bill was passed with the idea of getting; rid of Professor -.Von i. Zedlitz, and he told tho Council that tho professor was more English than German. A very.pboir'rewaTd wag given to the professor for his good work. However, ho was not going to oppose the measure; the responsibility rested ou the Government.: ' 7 The ;Hon. !:T. JlacGibbon thought Professor Von 1 Zedlitz should have availed himself of- the opportunity to bo naturalised. He had the'duplicity of his people to.blame for tho measure. If he had •anything, to'complain', of it'was the actions of his. own countrymen.. The Hon. A; T. Ma'gimiity. said that this was' not''a ..matter of Professor 'Von Zedlitz, and -there was no reason to ■ discuss his case. : The provision was a necessary one for: the Government, so that they could: deal'with the whple question. It .was only fair'to the professor ,to aslc tho Council .to view the matter in the broad way. • '' • The Hon. J. Barr said' that the Bill provided for a year's salary, and -as the Bill only applied to the period of (the war, persons of ability who were dislodged could be replaced. . The Bill .was read a second time, there being no dissentients. The Bill was,put through Committee without, iamendment, read a third time, and passed: • , .