THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 9, Issue 2586, 7 October 1915, Page 7

THE HOUSE

The Houso of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. . Dr. -THACKER (Christchurch East) asked the : Prime Ministerwhether he could give an assurance to-the House that the Alien Enemy Teachers' Bill 'would be put on the Statute Book this session. -

( .The Rt: Hon. W. F. MASSEY said he could not placo the Bill on tho ; Statute Book by himself, but he could ! give tho honourable gentleman an asi suranco that Parliament would be given an opportunity, of putting the Bill on the Statute Book.

The Cost of Living Bill was introduced by Governor's Message and read a first time. /,

MEMBERS' "PRIVILEGES"

"WASTE OF TIME"

LOYALTY OR GOOD TASTE?

; -Mr. J. T. M. HOKNSBY (Wairarapa) moved for leave to introduce the Protection of Members' Bill. ■ He declared that the' privileges of members liad been gradually whittled , . away, until now members wero ruled absolutely by the The Neiv Zealand Par-

liament was tho only Parliament in the

British Empire in which members could .'not move the adjournment of the House in order to draw attention to'any mat'tors of urgency. He complained; also, of: tho need forincrcased travelling allowances for members in the South Island.; Ho complained, also, of tlm '"scurvy'.treatment" meted but to members by. sorao newspaper His Bill would provide that when a, member

was attacked by a newspaper equal 3 space and prominence should bogivon to tue member's reply as to the attack, and also that all articles attacking a member of Parliament , should be signed by the name of tho writer. He referred again to the question wliich he had raised concerning the men who returnoil by tho Tahiti, and ho denied abso: lutely that he'had reflected oil the hon-. . : our or the courage <ir any of the men \/' who came, back by the Tahiti. I Ik. T. 31. 3VILFORD. (Hu.tt)' sujk

ported the 'statement of tho member for Wairarapa that lie had nover imputed anything dishonourable to the men of the Tahiti.

Dr. JTHACKER (Christchurch) took advantage of the opportunity to say uii- : kind things about the editor of a Christchurch journal which does not/ always approve of Dr. Thacker. A Member's Contfuct. Mr. J. H. Escott (Pahiatua) said he was in favour of an amendment of the standing orders to givo private mem.bors more, power. He believed in supporting the standing orders, and he deplored the fact that not' all the members. in the House observed the standing order,requiring members to stand uncovered while a message from His Excelleucy tho •' Governor was being read. It was important and proper at a time like this that l members of the House should be loyal and patriotic.- • '-. i

Mr. J. B. HINE (Stratford) said that the member for Wairarapa was not' very wise to refer again to what lie had said about, the Tahiti men. Mr. Buie produced Hansard, and said ho proposed to read what Mr. Hornsby had said, tbut , Mr. Speaker, would not permit- a reference to a past debate..

The Rt. Hon. W. F. MASSEY (Prime Ministeri reminded honourable members that the Bill. was .really a bogus Bill. It. could not be heard of after that _ afternoon. It could not even be printed, because tho timo for private members Bill had passed.' He did not- think/ however, that' some of the speeches'made that afternoon were likely to add to tho dignity of Parliament..' Tho discussion meant a very great of time.] He was not thinking of members' time, because members' - timo belonged to tho country, but every day' they , were .in >session meant great expense to the taxpayers of the country, and what the House was doing now was not worth very much to them. He had been given' to understand that It was intended to go on wasting .the time of the House: until - 5.30 p.m. every afternoon until the House rose. .-■■■■: , V Mr. Ell ' and . other members, protested'against this statement, 'and asked the Prime Minister ,to state tho sourco of it. Mr. Massey said ho was simply repeating a _ statement' that .: had been mado to him. He would suggest to honourable members tha.t the debate should bo allowed to come to an end, and the; Hoilse! allowed /to get, on with the business of . tho sessiom .He -,re-" forred, -also', to the Basin Reserve Bill and the holding up of the Committee's report' upon' it; Ho himself was not much in love with that Bill, and might not even support it, and he urged that the' sensible thing to do was to come to a decision on it. ■Mr. J. PA.YXE (Grey Lynn) said that the declaration that some members did not stand while .messages. from the Governor were received cast a stigma' on the,whole House. An hon. member: Thoro is onlyone. ■ Mr. Payne: Then why not name him? ;-, Mr. Escott: Very . well. ..." I- was referring: specially to the member for Wairarapa. "Y- Y-' ' : i- V / Faroloal proceedings. ■ Mr. C. J. PARR (Eden) said that as i new member, ho was amazed at the farcical waste of time. He believed that the Bill was introduced to enable the h(jnoifrabl6~~gentleman : .whd' was. tho author of it: .to : get even wit]i 'certain newspaper editors; He deprecated the. 1 action' of .the' member for Wairarapa in l refusing to stand when a message: was received from, His: Excellency the G6v-, einor. i -Mi- H. POLAND (Ohincmuri) thought, it, would be .a;good thing for private members..to ..band .together for their own protection' :to the few privileges left to them. ; He pointed out that there was no standing order, but'only; a rilling'of the Speakpr, ; that a member must . .stand while a. message from the. Governor was being read. ■: Mr. J. V. BROWN (Napier)- said that the proper, way, to .reply . to the Press was :to, ,'-'go for them for damages," if they said anything unfair or untrue. -. - ~ . ; . ' Mr. Hornsby Renlies. Mr. J. T. M. HORNSBY (Wairarapa). said ho was sorry that some animosity towards him had been, shown by members on the other side of tho House. He said that ho gave place to no one in loyalty; In tho House many years ago lie had observed the lato Sir 'William .- Steward sitting- when a message , was received, and had- consulted- that venerable "gentleman on tho point. ' Sir William told him ,then that it was not necessary to stand, but merely to uncover, and drew his attention to -the.: Standing Order. In the British House of Commons members uncovered when a mossage came from His Majesty, but no member stood. "There is patriotism and patriotism," said Mr. Hornsby in conclusion, and ho quoted Johnson's saying:. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Universal Practice. Mr. SPEAKER referred to tlie question raised about Standing: Orders. He said that it was juite correct that there -.was no. Standing. Order requiring members to stand when a message was received from the Governor. It was left to the good taste of members to 'stand or not as they thought best.' But it had been the •practice- always in' the House for members to stand on these occasions, and universal practice had been held to bo equally binding, if not more binding, than the Standing Order.. NINE. EDUCATION DISTRICTS. Tlie Education Amendment- Bill (the Hon. J. A. Hanan) was introduced and read a first time. : The Hon. J. A. HANAN said that the Bill, proposed to establish nino education ; districts ; instead of seven, as recommended by; the Commission., MORTCACES EXTENSION. The Hon. A. L. HEBDMAN report-, ed, on behalf of tho managers appoints ed to confer with tlie Legislative Council concerning the Mortgages Extension Amendment Bill that it had been agreed .that , piause Ba,' : inserted in tho Bill in the Legislativo Council, and objected to by tho House, should be deleted. •Tlie report was'agreed to. BASIN RESERVE BILL KILLED. The debate on the report of tho Lands Committee on the Wellington City Basin Reserve. Bill was resumed. Tlie report of tho committeo was that the Bill should be allowed to proceed, and Mr. Wilford moved an amendment that the Bill be referred back to the committee. . Mr. , R.; 'A'. WRIGHT (Wellington Suburbs) said ho had not been asked by a single one of his constituents to support tho Bill. Ke had been entrusted with.' the Bill because he was the only member of the City Council who was, a member of Parliament. .

Mr. J. ANDERSON (Mataura) said that the Lands Committee had had before it the statement that somor tHiig must be done to make,the Basin. Ileservo corners safe, - and the statement that new and large sports grounds were being provided on tho outskirts of the I City. Tho committee held tbat the interests of sport must givo way to tho growing needs of the City, and of tho increasing- traffic- There 'was no proposal to reduco the air space; That would not be reduced if the line were tuh through, the. middle of tho ro.servo. In any case, the question was a local one, and should be decided by the people of Wellington. For this reason provision was made for tho Taliinn of a poll on. tho proposal in the Bill.

Mr. W. E. FIELD COtalri) opposed the Bill.

Mr. 0. HUNTER (Waipawa) said that even at this late, stage of the session

lie would be prepared to join with any other membevs to exhaust the forms of the House to impede tlie passage of tlie Bill.

Mr. C. PARATA and Mr. J. A. YOUNG also opposed tho Bill. The.'amendment was carried by 39 votes to 22. Tho effect of this must inevitably be the killing of tho Bill. WAR REGULATION. Tlie Hon. A. L. HERDMAN (Attor-noy-General) moved the second reading of tlio War Regulations Amendment Bill. Ho said that tho objects of tho Bill were to give tlie Minister of Supplies power to have first call on tlie manufacturers, of those establishments which were able to supply equipment for , troops, to ; validate all regulations already made, and to carry out a wish of the Imperial 'Government with regard: to penalties for breach of tho regulations governing the censorship.

The Bill was read a second timo without dobate, put through Committee, and passed.

WASHING-UP BILL. SEVERAL CONTENTIOUS CLAUSES. ' The Right Hon. W. F. MASSEY moved the second, reading of,the Reserves and Other Lands Disposal and Public Bodies Empowering Bill.

Mr. ' H. G. f ELL (Christchurch South) entered a protest against the loose method that was growing up of dealing with lands all over the Dominion by a large number of clauses in the Washing-up Bill, without adequate opportunities; being afforded of the matters being investigated by '• the Local Bills Committee or tho Lands Committee of the House. Sometimes a whole local Bill was contained in a clause. He feared that many of the proposals contained in the Bill would not be approved by the House if thev were brought down early in the session, and properly-investigated by Committees. . The Bill was read a second time.

The objections raised by Mr. Ell were, repeated by several members in Committee. It appeared that ' the Auckland City Council had persuaded the. Government'to insert a clause to change the conditions attaching to the vesting of a reserve without, notifying a single Auckland member, although the matter affected neighbouring local bodies. This clause was rejected. Almost 1 identical objections were raised to other clauses. One such clause was retained by the narrow margin of one vote: 31—33.' On Voting Solid. This division provoked Mr. Ell to anger. "If tho of the National Cabinet are going to vote solid on- every clause," he said ; ;"it is no use our objecting to anything. , If tho Ministers are . going to vote: on . strict, .party lines' without regard to the merits of the clause, it is going to cause some delay in the progress of this Bill." Mr. Massoy: Don't threaten me, because I don't intend to take it.

Mr. Ell: I wasn't referring to you, Sir. ■

To the next clause in the Bill, which proposed to give to original lessees of certfiin lands 'in the Ohmemuri district the Tight to..convert.'their leases into the optional tenure at the original value, Mr. Ell objected ' also. He declared that it was an infringement of tho undertaking entered into by the two parties prior to .the formation of the National Cabinet. ; He declared that because it proposed to givo tho freehold at the original value it was a policy clause: It was pointed out, however, that the had been on the land for thirty-two years, that all the holders of , similar land in the district had been given the \right to convert their leases, and that the' five lesees concerned .in the clause had for some reasons missed their opportunity. But tho clause was supported by Mr. H. Poland, member for. the district, and'a staunch leaseholder. .; The clause was retained by 43 votes to. 18.' ■ A Deadlock.

A clause which proposed to .alter the tenures of the township of To Aroha strenuously opposed..' ' The land on which the town, of To Aroha now stands was formerly repiited to bo auriferous, and the only tenure granted over any lands in that district was what is known as miner's license, notoriously one of the most insecure tenures under which land may: be held iu New Zealand. The gold miners have leftj To Aroha, long ago, but the miner's license. tenure remains, and it is alleged that tho insecurity of tenure has; militated against the progress of . the town. ' Tho clause proposed to,convert tho land of the town into ordinary Crown land, and to give to the te'uants the right to the optional tenure over it. This was described by some of the. implacable opponents of the freehold as ''parting with the people's birthright," and so oil. The fact, as was explained, is that lands are held, under miner's license on ■ peppercorn rentals, and the rents -go to the local body. Under the new proposal the Government would get the value of:tho land, and the.local, body would get its, income from rates. Tho most serious objection raised to the passage, of the clause was that it was contentious, forcing a cleavage on a cardinal question of land policy, and that one of tho conditions precedent-to the formation of a National Governmont was that- no contentious legislation should bo introduced. Thero was other ■ statement 'made which had some weight: that in anticipation of the possible passago of the clause, there had been land speculation in To Aroha. In vain the, Minister and other members asked the House to do the sensible thing and get to a division, but Mr. Ell': and'his friends, assured, of a beating on • a vote, pressed for tho withdrawal of the clause. Indeed, he said that: if tho clause were forced through ho would never attend another Liberal caucus. /•

Tlie Right Hon. W. .F. Massey wh<r had been out of the House until after midnight, returned to make a , statement that ho resented very strongly the 1 statement that he had been guilty of a breach of faith. Ho always endeavoured to keep his pledged word. He would, however, make tho offer to tho House that the clause be holdover until next year if-members would help hint to get tho rest of tho Bill through, and to end tho session'. Sir Joseph Ward also resented the charge that he, in his turn, had been guilty of a breach of faith. Neither he nor the Primo Minister had been guilty of anything of the sort. In point of fact, long before the National Government was forme/1, a deputation'from To Aroha waited upon .him, pointed out-their difficulties about tenure, and asked him to support'a proposal to allow the people to buy tlieii sections, and lie promised the deputation that he would not' oppose such a proposal.

The compromiso was accepted,' and the clause was deleted. ■ (Left Sitting.)