NATIONAL REGISTRATION

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2575, 24 September 1915, Page 7

NATIONAL REGISTRATION

PATRIOTIC SPEECHES 1 MARSHALLING OUR RESOURCES iITTLE OPPOSITION TO THE BILL. Tsio Bight Hon.. W. F.-. MASSEY {Prime Ministor) moved tho ■ second : ''.aeading. of' the.-'Natioha 1 ■ - Begistration .'Bill. Ho said that the Bill on its in;troduction a few .weeks ago ha<l evoked . ioa'certain amount, of criticism,: some favourable: and some unfavourable,- but : so ifarTas ho could' judge the' great' body • jof'public opinion' was very strongly in favour of the Bill and the principle.of ,it'. At all events he did not mean to apologise for: it. The Bill was a new departure, but w'e were faced-with .circumstances and conditions such as had : feever before arisen in tho history of the .iEmpire—circumstances and. conditions oft which we had had, no previous experience. ; 'And he thought honourable 'memhers" would agr.eo that if we were going to do justice to the occasion it was absolutely necessary, that wo should ascertain where we stood,' and ascertain ■as hearly. as possible what resources we had behind us in the present crisis. A little rnoro than a year ago Lord Kitchjeiier. had said that in all .probability, ithe' war would-last-fliree' yeais. -There jiwero many, who at that time disagreed [•with him, but who now admitted that : jth'e' forecast was not; very far wrong. Tjfhe end was still a' long way off. vv\V- ,

A Year of Exnerience. \ ,Wo had had many experiences during <ihe past 12. or 14 months, and < tho Em>pire,hiid learned; a great deal, -but at ,least we:could bo sure tfcat the troops of Britain and Prance were quite equal, .'superior-he believed,' to the troops:of itlio Kaiser. Russia, it was true, had •been beaten back, but' many: of us. had confidence jin the dogged perseverance and persistency of the Russians, and ■hoped and' believed that Russia would -come again", and take an important part ' iuHhe victory: which W'e all believed was assured.' -Our other ally, Japan, had done all that was expected of her, and ho was of opinion that Japan had dono •more than we were aware of As New ■Zealanders -we could not forget that Japan sent a great ship to escort, our ■troops to the front. - - That service. .wo 'must remember, with gratitude.' Italy ■.had- entered .into tlie contest: with enithiisiasni and energy, which spoke well for success, and ho believed that tho army arid the Italian navy would be very, important factors m tho victory which would.-'come at no distant, date. Our Allies were in deadly earnest, and ' would stand together. ■ until the Wyar come to a satisfactory conclusion. (Hear, hear.) So ,it . was with different parts of- the Empire. ,'About them we-need have no anxiety. 'All had-made up their minds that no sacrifice of blood and- treasure would bo too much to pay; for the integrity iof the, Empire,. and for the defeat or : its "enemies.■ At times such as.these 'tho men entrusted' ivitli the management of public affairs in every country ;of 'the Empire had a very great responsibility. - It was their duty to see that ■tho very utmo'st was made of our resources, not only from a military, bit from ; an industrial, point of view. ,-Ko man could tell when the.war would end. •But-'we knew that we were up against ,an enemy possessed of the greatest and 'most complete organisation the world '••had-ever"seen, an enemy that could only he overthrown by an organisation Superior to her own.

I "Sadly Unprepared." ~ It had to be admitted that compared .!with.Germany the. British forces wore Sadly unprepared. ■ _ ' ■ An' hon. member: Except the Navy. : Mr. Massey said lie was glad to except'tlie Navy. Tho Navy had. done everything it was possible for it do. Ifc had swept tho German Isavy off tho seas, and it was a matter for congratulation, that the Navy was stronger m ships and men than when the war startled.. But we could not but admit that /]n munitions of war Germany was vastly superior to Britain and Britain's Allies —perhaps superior to them all combined. . He was glad to bo able to say 'ithat the British authorities had realised (their deficiencies, and were making energetic and determined efforts to make .good our deficiencies. We hoped theyWould be successful., We knew now it j-was futile to send troops to tho front |j)artly' trained and not-, properly jequipped, and to expect them to come

back victorious. We knew that over.v ounce of energy and effort 'would bo required to win-in this strugglo. We wero fighting for our existence'as a nation, :lor our national life. That was what - was in ": tho scale.' But wo had every confidence in the, Imperial. authorities, every confidence 'in our troops and 1 in our navy, biit we must not closa our eyes to tho fact that we were up agaiust a strong, powerful and .treacherous enemy,, which was seeking to destroy tho civilisation which had taken many generations of ' civilisation ' to huildi up. ' . Our Part.

j: "New -Zealand is a small, country,' said Mr. Massey, "but our duty is clear. Our duty is to do'everything possible to assist the United Kingdom and the i other Dominions of the Empire and our Allies iii the very 'serious crisis through which wo ■■■are. passing. .Wo have no reason to be ashamed of what wo have done or what wp propose to do. Oil the contrary, I - think, we have every reason to bo proud of 'what our little Dominion has done,- but what wo ought to do is, in my opinion, not to bo gauged by. what we have done, not by what we-propose to do, but by our ability and capacity. I believe in the present system of sending,.reinforcements. I believe it is tho best, system possible, and it is the system strongly-approved and recommended: to us by the Imperial authorities. It is our duty to place every iiian in the field that we caij, being mindful always of our most'important -industries." We' could : produce, epeaking of the country as a whole,- wool to clothe the troops, hides to make boots for them, beef, mutton, and lamb, oheese.and butter, and many other articles to feed our . troops and to feed the millions of the United Kingdom engaged: in industrial operations, especially the operations arising out of the .war. •• If over there" was a-time when the Scriptural axiom, "Whatsoever thy hand findbst to do, do that with nil thv might," should be adopted and adhered to,: that time was the "present.

| , A Wonderful Achievement. . The Minister of Defence had stated I that before" the end of January, wo should requiro 14,000. men, 14,000 recruits in addition to those in camp already. Hte did not'know whether lion, members had thought 'that out, or thought' What it meant. It meant this,: that by the end of. January, if all went-well, and if ' they were able to raise the men—and he believed all would go well as far as this country was concerned—(hear, hear)—and suitable men would be forthcoming —(hear, hear)—iwe should then /have 'in. camp, and counting those gono away from this country, a force of 45,000 men. •Ho thought that it wa3 a. wonderful thing. (Applause.) \ Mr.: Glover: How many have gone?'. .' Jlr. iMasssy: Twenty-three, thousand, ami probably another 7000 ready to go. I think it is a ; wonderfiil thing for a small country like this to do/. And we hftvo to keep on. Make 110 mistake about that; we have to keep ,on to tho .end of the'war, sending our-reinforce-, ir.ents, as -agreed'on between the Imperial Government and the Government of this country. As I have said, 14,000 rren additional. to those wt' have now will be required to be forthcoming before the end of January, and January is . not _ very far : away. I .believe , the patriotism and manhood of this country., will find those men. (Hear, hear.). What we wanted .to do, continued Mr. Massey, and it was part'of the object of-,tho Bill, was to-be able to send away those men: without disorganising; any : more than we could possibly help the industries; of this country. Vlf we were going to do .that, then wo should have a national or a. census of capacity, as it 'had,been called. Other countries, had; found ut ( necessary' to,, go in for. that .system, of ..national- registra.tion—Britain.:had" 'done"'it,. liad '. : .been compelled to do it, France had done it— and, as far as he could find out, the registration system of France, was even more complete than that of' Britain her-self--Australia was doing it at the present moment. We had not gone to the' same lengths, as either France, Britain, or Australia; we had asked no unnecessary questions, and .'we'were not asking for a. census of wealth. ■

I/abcmr members: Why not? Mr.- Massey: Because, it is not necessary to do so for our present purposes, nnd because wo have already got the information we reqiiro about the wealth of : -the people and tlie incomes individually and collectively, in the- hands rof the, Taxation Department. If we want anything more_ than, that,' then I am providing for .it in another small Bill (the Census and Statistics Amendment Bill). I have said we have made the Bill as simple as possible. We aro asking some very direct questions, but asking nothing which, can be called inquisitional 1 , impertina/it, or . . unnecessary. It has been suggested that wc should include the women.in the; National Registration^Bill. . ■' . •,v Members: Hear, hear.- -

Enthusiasm of the Women. ;Mr. i Massey: . There is no objection to tho principle, but I would put/this to honourable members, it is not riecessary. /; A member:- -Yes. Mr. Massey: Well, that is a matter of opinion. Wo cannot send •women to t'he front, although I know many of "tliom would like to go. I have had applications from women, more than one, asking me to use my influence to get them ; into the Aviation Corps at, Home, and they are prepared to.leave their country for that, purpose. I say the men of this country have done well, but the -energy and enthusiasm of the women has been-beyond all praise. (Applause.) 1 Nothing has been too much trouble for ,-them .since the war commenced. ■ ' .i _ ' Mr. Isitt: And their bravery in giving their sons. ... '.Sir. Massey: Yes. Many ajoung fellow in tho fighting line to-day would not have been thero had not his mother pointed . tlie way. We. have much to thank, them for. 1. had to-day a letter from a mother in reply .-to a. telegram of'sympathy I sent Iter on of her son, who was wounded, and I think it is.worthy of placing on record, and , Worthy of handing down to futuro generations. She says: "Dear sir,—Thanks for your kindly message of sympathy. It is very hard, to hear of our dear ones being injured, and. not being near them,-, but I thank (iod He has given me, men for. sons." Thero was never a more Spartan statement, and she goes on: -''Eaclr of them,_ under 'His watchfulness and caro will, do his duty to the best of'his' strength," and then in .Maori.: "\Ve never give in, we fight oil for ever and ever." '.. (Applause.) It is a noble sentiment, and it is a sentiment not only of this lady, but of thousands of mothers throughout tlie longtli and breadth of this country. (Applause.) I have not tho slightest objection to including women in the national census. I-intend, to give them an opportunity of national registration, of optional registration, and I havo not the slightest'doubt'if wc dp what I,am suggesting that thousands of women will come forward and volunteer to do something for the Empire'in this _ crisis through which we are now passing.

Some Direct Questions. Mr. Massoy went on to say that tho national registration of France, which was more complete than tho_ system of Britain, simply meant that it was admitted that the French Government had allowed tens of thousands of mecli-. allies and munitions workers to leave their work and go to the front, and Franco was now bringing those men back. It was just as important to seo to the munitions of war and supplies for the armies i.s to send large numbers of meni to'the front. Coming to "the Bill he said that it simply meant ,to ask the men of this country some direct

questions. It provided that each male Between-.the ages of 17 and 60 years would bo required by- proclamation .to .fill in a personal schedule, setting out various particulars The organisation of the Post and Telegraph Department would be Utilised' for the distribution of the schedules, and in all the principal centres a house-to-house canvass would bo made. The data would bo required 14 days after t'ho issue of the proclamation. ■ He had heard occasionally, andi opinions had been expressed to him, that the workers were against national registration. Ho did not agree with that for one moment. A Labour member: Not they. . Mr.' Massey quoted an article by Robert Blatchford, "one of the greatest Socialists in the world," which appeared in'the "Clarion," in strong support of national registration, and qi'ioted the views of certain Labour leaders in Auckland favouring the principle.

Questions to be Answered. ; Continuing,- Mr. Massey said that he believed the opinions he had quoted were those of a. huge majority of what tvero called tho wage-earners of the Dominion. / (Hear, hear.) The National Registration Bill was iwoll drafted, and its clauses were perfectly clear. Clause 2 provided for- the proclamation which would be necessary to bring the system into operation, and Clauso 3 also referred to the registration. Clause 4 was the substance of the Bill itself, and if hon. members'would lead that clause they had 'everything the' Bill contained. It .asked pertinent questions, but they were not hy any means. impertinent, and they were questions which tho State had (a right to ask of its peoplo. He had- in iiis hand tho form in which it was. proposed that the questions should be sent out, and he would quote it because it gave a better idea of tho scope of the Bill. Question 1 asked every man between the ages of 19 and 45. years if lie had volunteered for. military, service beyond New Zealand as a member of tho .Expeditionary Force, .and if, in the .event, of his haying done so, he had been accepted; or rejected. . Question 2 asked such a man whether, if he liad not volunteered for such service, ho was willing fo'becomo a. member of'the Expeditionary Force, and, if bo, in What arm 1 of tho servico he desired, to be. Question 3 asked.such a man whether, in the event of his hot wishing to serve .with the Expeditionary Forco, ho was willing to serve in .any civil capacity; if so, in what capacityand, if ho were not prepared .to serve in any capacity, what were .his reasons therefor?

Not a Conscription Bill. The Bill was not intended to give effect .to-the idea of conscription or compulsory service.' He was not a believer in compulsory service, though, lie did believe to compulsory training. An lion, member:'A good thing for Us, wo had it; . - ' . Mr. Massey said it certainly was a good thing that New Zealand, had compulsory, training,'and it was a good .thiiig also- that : the Dominion^had had a Defence Minister with sufficient foresight :to provide the munitions and arms necessary before the war camo' along. -(Hoar, hear.) Ho himself, as he had said, was a believer in compulsory national training. But if chance we' were not able to find tho number of men required to enable the country to tio its duty, he, for one, would not hesitate one minute, and ho did not think there were ninny people in the community who would hesitate, if the'question were put'to them between compulsory service and defeat — compulsory service, that was to say, for a time. He did not believe that tlioy had waited too' long with tho present measure, and he thought that the Dominion was doing very well indeed.

' Bringing It Home. There was one other matter he wanted, to explain. Ho was informed by the Registrar-General that Clause C, which provided that in certain cases men might be required to submit them.selves for medical inspection, was not necessary to t'ho Bill, and he proposed to .strike it out.' It'had been suggested' that it; should be included by some- of the framers of the , Bill, but he had gone into the matter very carefully, with the result that at a later stage in the. passage of the Bill he would take steps to. ha'yo the clause struck out. Concluding. Mr.' Massey said that he thought the Bill had beon thoroughly explained by liirn, but if thero were any other points that : required elucidation he would bo . glad _ to supply the: necessary information. The, Bill was,an exceedingly important one, and lie believed, it was necessary. It would bring home to tens of thousands of young men what their duty was. Many of these young men were not shirkers in the ordinary sense of the word. He did not believe there wero many shirkers in the Dominion. He had ; met many young men who had not yet seen their way to enlist, but when they read the questions put to them lie was sure that tens of thousands of them would express willingness to serve tho Empire, and by doin gso .would rentier conscription or compulsory service unnecessary; That was what he was driving at, and/that was why he was introducing the Bill. (Hear, hear.)

a National Stocktaking. Mr. T! M. WILFORD (Hutt) pro-, mified the Government every possible assistance in passing the measure Tho esample of Germany showed how desirable it was tliat a nation should have bucli a tabulation at its disposal. 110 believed that if'.Great Britain had liad such a stocktaking it would not have been necessary to withdraw men from the front to help in making'munitions. The. National Ministry did not know what was before it, and niusfc therefore make all preparations. None of tho movements of this groat war could have been absolutely foroscen; equally, the future could i;ot be read. The questions asked of tho people of New Zealand would be Teadily and cheerfully answered. There might be differences of opinion in regard to details, but the principle of the Bill would bo unanimously approved. "It is better to be over-prepared than undermanned, concluded Mr. Wilforri, "and anything lean <!o, either in the. House or on the platform to help in passing this measure will be gladly and cheerfully done." Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey LymO said he was still, as he always had been, violently opposed to any form of compulsory'militarism, but he approved of this measure providing for a national stocktaking. He objected, however, to that provision of the Bill asking whether a 'man had volunteered, and "if not, why not?" If these words, "If not, why not?" were deleted, all possiblo objection to the measure would disappear. ,

Principle and Fact, Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christchurch North) said that the Bill was an unquestioned necessity, 'i'ho objections to tlie Bill came from two sources. One was tJio "peace-at-aiiy-price" party, and the

other was a certain section of tho Labour Party. The one party was r.ot worth. considering. _ Some ot the people who wrote to him, arguing that Britain should disbaud her army and navy and put her faith ni Godwell, they were not sane. As. for the Labour rtien, if'they did not- actually oppose, they were suspicious and 1 distrustful. He believed it was with them a case of considering a question of P 1 ™" ciple rather than a question of fact. He was ' personally opposed' to militarism, and opposed to conscription—so long as conscription was ; not But now, when the existence of the Empire was threatened, and if men were wanted and could not be found, then every male, from the young hoy to the old men,, must be made to bear arms. They must organise their resouiccs and bring his duty to the Empire beforo every man. This Bill would find out the shirkers. ,

Mr. l'ayhe: The're are no shirkers. Mr. Isitt: Oh, that is nonsense, absolute nonsense. There were .shirkers, he claimed—not many, perhaps, hut sufficient to demand attention. .And conscription, if necessary, had this merit: it ensured that every man was treated alike. Mr. Isitt concluded by .offering his platform services to M. - Massey in connectnn with the work of organisation l'or war scrvicc'. Mr. C. H. POOLE (Auckland West) supported tho J3ill. Mr. J. M'COMBS (Lyttelton) said the measure did not propose to. take a census of wealth, but only of flesh ajid blood. Why had the National Government refused to count its "silver bullets"? Generally' ho found! fault with the Bill. He repudiated any suggestion that there was disloyalty among the workers... ' . , 'The Hon. D. BUDDO (Kaiapoi) took the member for Lyttelton to task for his statement that 110 census was being taken of the wealth of the country. Ho ventured to suggest that when our taxing proposals were put through tho House the Government'would be in possession of a very coinplote census of the wealth of the country. He strongly supported the Bill, -and hoped, it would bo adopted 'unaniniouslv by tho House., •Mr.- P. WEBB (Grey) also protested against the nationalisation of flesh and blood before wealth was nationalised.

Conscription Necessary Now. ; Mr.-H: POLAND (Ohinemuri) considered the measuro one of the most important of the session, and he held it was his duty to speak in support of it. The Minister of Defence had said that by next January 14,000 additional men woiild.be required in New Zealand. If the war lasted twelve months after that date he (Mr. Poland) held that conscription would be necessary. Ho suggested tliat the Prime Minister should be sent Hom.e to get first-hand information for this country on the war crisis. •; The necessity had already arisen for confor 'he.lield>that'.the existence of the Empire was at stake. If wo delayed for'another four months we would be waiting till' it was too late. Already 87j000 men had. been lost by the Allies at Gallipoli, and tjie fact that our reinforcements'. were being speeded np amply' proved the' necessity for conscription. It was the National Governments duty to meet this question fairly,' squarely, and boldly./ We,were not. doing our very -utmost, which was tlie very least we could do for the Empire. In justice to ourselves, we should do mncli more, and ho felt the Government was not going far enough in the Bill. Mr. A. HARRIS (Waitemata) said that we were looking to. the future with the utmost confidence, but we should look to it also with somo'concern, The right thing was being done in .asking the manhood of this country, whether they were prepared to serve the Empire in the hour of need. Ho also believed that conscription was necessary in this country, l for the voluntary system had failed in that it had not got at. a section of the community that should have gone. Unwarranted Pessimism. Dr. NEWMAN (Wellington East) said that he did not consider there was any lieed to talk about' conscription at this timo. They lmd only to go. round the country asking for the men to get the 14,000 required. Mr.. A. WALKER (Duusdin North) gave his support to the measure, but opposed the idea of conscription. -He thought, however, that a wealth census should be taken.

End of the Debate, ' Messrs. G. Witty, 0. J. Talbot, T. A. H. Field, and H. &. Ell air supported the Bill. The Right Hon.- W. F. MASSEY replied at midnight. He thanked honourable members for their reception" of the Bill, and for their kindly to hiihself. Replying to the suggestion tliat he,was seeking to protect the man with money from embarrassing inquiries, he quoted from the ' Land and Income Assessment Act to show that it provided machinery by which the Government could obtain all the information it might require about any man liable to pay land or income tax. Tho Bill was road a second time, and was committed. forthwith. The Bill in Committee. Mr. J. M'Combs asked the Primo Minister to remove the words from tlio Bill requiring any man of military ago to state reasons why he will not join tho Expeditionary Force. If tliis question •wore deleted the only point on which there was friction would bo smoothed over. Ho urged, and in this lie was supported by Mr. Payne, that there might be private reasons that a man might not ,car'e to state.

The Prime Minister said he looked at the matter from a rather different point of view. He knew of young men who wore simply breaking their hearts to go, hut who for fitrong reasons could not go. Would it be fair to deny these men an opportunity of stating their reasons? He thought this was fair. (Hear, hear.) 'Mr. L. SI. Isitt sakl that rather than seo tho clauso delel/ed he would like to sec it enlarged, in order that the Government. migjht know tho circumstances of every man who volunteered, allowing the Government to use discretion as- to when lio should he called tip. There was .110 compulsion in the clause. Surely, it was a wise thing to give tho Government', tho fullest information possible about tho men volunteering. Mr. M'Conibe suggested that the cases tho Prime Minister had in mind could bo met fay having at tho foot of tho registration card a space for "general remarks." He quite agreed that men should be given an opportunity of stating reasons, but tho'statement of reasons should not he mado inend«tory.

The Prime Minister agreed to amend tho clause defining. the questions to fco asked of moil of military age. TIIO effect of the aniendment was not considerable. • It left tho clause still mandatory, but tiho phrasing of the clause was a little less imperative. Clause 0, relating to compulsory medical examination, was deleted. The Bill was reported wilh amendments, road .1 .third t.imo, and passed, Tho Houso tO6O at 0.60 a.w<