THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2570, 18 September 1915, Page 7

THE HOUSE

The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. The Sale of Foods and Drugs [Amendment Bill (the Hon. W. D. S. MacDonald) was introduced and read a first time. The amendments made to the Births and Deaths Registration Amendment Bill were agreed to. The Bill was read a third time and passed. THE ESTIMATES EDUCATION IN NEW ZEALAND : REFORMS SUGGESTED The House resumed in Committee of Supply 'on. tlie Estimates. ■ On the education grant, £1,390,445, Mr. G. J. Ancferso-i (Mataura) desired to know whether the National Scholarships were still apportioned to the Edu- . cation Boards, or whether a new system had been adopted. ■ Dr. A. K.,Newman (Wellington East) desired an explanation foe the increase of £183,000 in the grant for the Department. Mr. T. M. Wilford (Butt), asked what the Minister intended ;to do with _ regard to grants for technical instruction, with a. view to increasing the efficiency of the workers. He made special reference to the position at Lower Hutt. Mi-: W. H. Field (Otaki) asked what steps had been taken to secure a site for a new Technical College in Wellington. The present wretched accommodation was totally inadequate. ' Dr. Newman (Wellington East) asked. if there was to be separate classification for men and women teachers.'" _ . ". The Hon. J. A. H&nan (Minister of Education) said that there would now be only one system of. scholarship; the competitive element had been removed.' The system was fully explained in the education report. . The main reason for the increase in the vote, wis for increases in the salaries, etc. He did not think it desirable,to take the classification.' question into consideration until they saw how the new Act worked. The Council of.Education should first go into the matter. As to technical Instruction, . he said that he heartily desired to see more done in the way of equipping young fellows for their' particular trades and industries.' As the Act stood certain capitation was paid for such subjects. While he desired, to give every assistance to ' continuation evening classes the difficulty was that nuids were not available to carry out all his ideas. Ha hoped it would not be long before the benefits ' of technical education wore more recognised. • He was not conversant with any recommendation for securing, a: new site for Wellington, but he promised.to look into the matter. v increasing Expenditure, Mr. J. Anstey (Waitaki). the Minister whether. _ho. would. completely review our education system, more especially with regard to the continual increase and the enormous expense or the system. The increase was out of proportion to the extra number of children. He thought the system of education was in the direction of creating a dislike for rural life, and it made the students, both male and female, desire rather the glitter of city surroundings. _ Mr. T. Is. Sidey (Dunedin South) asked if any steps had been taken to bring about the Dominion scheme or A'. Wilkinson; (Egmont) spoke on the question of providing schools for back-block districts. _ It was a,difficult; but important question, and he asked the Minister to look into it. and to eive some support to settlers. Mr. T. .A. H. Field (Nelson) referred to the hardships on settlers, especially in the Sounds district, on account of the inadequate capitation allowance for .household schools. Dr. Thacker •• (Christchurch. East) urged better provision in schools, to permit all classe.s being taken in sepa-. rate rooms. Ho also advocated women inspectors for the infant classes, and said iliat the syllabus for physical instruction was far too .overcrowded. x The Hon. J. A. Hanan said ho recognised that there was. some objection to the number of exercises in tho physical instruction syllabus. Some improvement would be made. As to household schools, it was a difficult matter for him to deal with schools which wero on the "borderline"; the question would always be a troublesome one.. It was hoped to bring out the Dominion grading scheme when they issued ..tbo clfiaU'cation list, in June next. Replying to the criticism of the member tor Waitaki, he said that tho syllabus was not at fault, but a great -d»al depended on the teacher. They vero fully cognisant of-the importance of domestic training, and tho matter was stressed, in the education report. , Deplorable Pronunciation. . Mr. J. T. M. Hornsby (Wairarapa) said that the primary education was at fault. Tho writing and pronunciation of some of the students who came from the primary schools was . deplorable. He asked the Minister to endeavour to Wo tho English of the boys and girls of Now Zealand improved. Apparently the teachers did not place the least importance on the matter: _ A lot of tho rubbish which was being taught would have to be . abandoned, and an endeavour made to mould the characterof tho child. . . . Mr C. J- Parr (Eden) thought that the very elasticity of tho syllabus might be a weakness. Unfortunately, all our teacliers wero not born teachers, and he doubted very much whether the public wero getting propor valuo lor tho expenditure on education. More was done now in developing the character than in past years, without any great show being made of it. So urged that the health of the children should be. tho primary care of the Education Department, in tho early stages of their training. Ho suggested that the timo 'had come when tho Derailment should jcoiyddor usw further, ttoa

with regard to health. An inspection was mado in thrco schools in Auckland, and 75 per cent, of the children had defective teetli. Thoy were the parents of working-class people, and they could not afford dentists' bills. The State should considc-r this matter, as was dono in Now South Wales, where State dentists, were appointed. Tho Department would be well advised to make inquiry, witli a view to affording free dentistry to the children of working-class people, Open-Air instruction. Dr. Newman (Wellington East) thought a great deal more should _ be done in regard to open-air teaching. There was no organised system in this direotion in Now Zealand, although it was tried in some schools. It seemed to him that, good work could bo dono if the Minister would spread this doctriuo throughout New Zealand. He did not agree with some of the pessimistic utterances of the members with reference to ; the education in the schools.

The Hon. J. 'A'. Hanan agreed that the boys and girls turned out of our schools were morally and' physically oqual to those turned out in any part of the world. (Applause.) Mr. Hornsby: Nobody was reflecting on the moral training. Members: You did;

Mi - . Hauan said that much depended ou tho .teachers and on the parents in the matter of pronunciation. Something could bo done by stressing tlie matter on this minds of the teachers. The inspectors said that there was a higher - st andard of training to-day than twenty-live years ago, but in every country they would tad education criticised by those who styled themselves educational experts. Mr. L. M. Isitt (Christdhurch North) said that they wero getting into a wretched system of pronunciation. They were getting a twang in New Zealand as pronouncod as Yorkshire. A meiubor: AVhy shouldn't there be? Mr. Isitt: "l am astounded at the interjection." He thought the Director Should stress upon his inspectors the need for a pure pronunciation. Mr. Hornsby, in explanation of his remarks, said that lie. agreed the moral tone ,of tlie schools here was equal to that of any part of the world; lie it was the highest in tiho Empire. Little things that went to inake up the character of the child were not sufficiently attended to in the schools. '

Mi'. C. J. Parr (Eden) urged the Minister to inquire as to wttiat was being done in. New Soutli Wales with Tegara to physical training. Mr. Hanan said that all the matters wero dealt with in tho Education report, There was the question of money. On technical ' instruction grant, £57,015, Mr. J. Payne (Grey Lynn) suggested that teachers in technical schools should be put on the same basis as teachers in the primary schools. He thought that . some capable person should ;be put in charge of the technical education system, and mentioned Mr. George George, of Auckland, as the man most capable of filling the position. . - Physical Condition of Children. On tho medical inspection vote, £3205, several speakers : said that the ,vote would be of no practical' value till the State followed it up, and provided free medical and dental treatment. Tho Minister said that he realised that free medical and dental troatment was much to be desired, but the obstacle in the way of introducing suoh a'reform was lack of money. Mr. G. J. Anderson said it was very l ■well to plead lack of funds, but ho ventured to suggest that much of the money now included in the education vote was wasted on "trimmings" or "frills." For instance, a lot of money was spent oh taking children : from the country into tho centres to learn cookery. This was very good in its. way;; but the children would, in fact, learn cookery in their own' homes.. It was very, nice for the ohildren to be taught ■cookery, but it was much more important that they should have good teeth. The voto for medical inspection was passed. " ■ Mr. R. M'Callum asked the Minister whether ho intended to appoint a .Director of Physical Education as" a successor to the late Mr. Royd Garlick.The Hon. J. Hanan said he proposed I to appoint a common head to control medical inspection and physical instruction. ■ Ho considered that the two branches were inter-dependent. He hoped to be" able to 'find a man with medical qualifications and with knowledge of physical training, and he proposed to consult Surgeon-General Henderson concerning what qualifications suoh an officer ought to have. He did not suggest that ■ the new appointee should be a military man.' The Government would try to get- a. suitable man," the best man available, in New Zealand or in Britain, but if a suitable man could not he obtained, the Government proposed to send a roan to America to get the necessary training there. It was difficult to get a suitable man in New Zealand, and the Commissioners had even cabled to Britain to inquire for a man there. _So important did be regard the appointment that he would not be forced into appointing an unsuitable man iu order to avoid a few months' delay. On Importing Experts,Mr. G. Witty complained that the Government were not setting about the making of the appointment lairiy. The vacancy, should, bo advertised. .If no fit man applied, then the Minister might try to get a man in Britain or America. But .to make" -inquiries abroad before advertising locally, was not fail- to Now Zealand men. .

Mr. W. A. Vcitcli also said the Minister was falling into '-'tho foolish habit" of seeking experts abroad. Dr. A. K. Newman said he, too, folt strongly about importing officers, and turning down our own men. This position was 110 very important one. All the knowledge .required for it could bo. learned by anybody in a very little while. Ho ventured to say that tkoro wcro schoolmasters in New Zealand who had been learning physical culture who. would fill the bill admirably. If the Minister bad set. his heart on getting a mail who was a dootor and a physical, culture oxpert ; ho had set bis heart on tho unattainable. No doctor that was worth his salt would bother to learn the details of physical culture. Mr. L. M. Isitt said ho believed every word that Ur. Newman had said. He beliovcd that half a) dozen suitable men could be got in Now Zealand to fill the position.' Tho Minister had explained what the former Minister had done "in confab" with the Public Service Commissioners. But it was no good kicking. ■ Parliament had deliberately handed over supremo'control to the Commissioners. This importation of alleged exports seemed to be the fashion. And the imported men drew' tho salaries while the New .Zealandors did the work. . ' ; pr. Newman asked whether tho appointment was to be advertised in New Zealand. It appeared that 1 he had been trying in every part of tho world except Germany Mr. Payne: And Now Zealand. Dr. Newman: to get a suitable officor.. "No Now Zealandcrs ■ need apply." As a representaivo of the people he would demand that the posft tion bo advertised here, and that the' appointment should not be made ' behind tho backs of the New Zealand people. He also wanted to know what salary was to bo offered for the position. Mr.; Koyd Garlick, who had dono very good work, had been paid £600 a yoar, and he argued that it was preposterous to pay £600 a year to a physical instructor when the headmastors of our biggest schools could not rise above £450 or perhaps £500 a yoHi'i Jflm Hoa, j. Aba

appointment would be made by the Public Service Commissioners. He had no control over it. Nothing definite had been' done, but the salary suggested was about £700 or £800 a year. Ho assured tho Committee that he would use his influenco with the Commissioners to have the position advertised in' New. Zealand. Mr; L. M. Isitt moved that the vote, "Physical Training £6975," be reduced by £5 as.an indication that in the oopinion of the House the vacancy ought to be advertised in New Zealand, and, if possible, filled bx the appointment of a New Zealander. Mr.-A. H. Hindmarsh (Wellington South)' said that the head of the Department should bo a man of hjgh attainments, who could gradually extend the usefulness of the physical training section. If they had such a' man the money would' be well spent,' whatever the salary was. He submitted that the fullest liberty should be given the Minister and. the Civil Son-ice Commissioners to get the best man. They should call for applicants in New Zealand, and- aJsoj if necessary, abroad. Ho was sorry to hear a member suggest that a mere drill, instructor could fill the position. They wanted organising ability, and an ability to enthuse tho teaohers in the work—they wanted a strong man. This was the*side of. education now considered to be the most important.', ■ vacanoy to ba Advertised. The Right Hon. W. F. Massey (Prime Minister) said that ho thoroughly agreed with the last speaker' as to the importance of the position. •' The cablegram that had been sent Home was inot with regard to filling the position, but was seeking advice. There 'was; never any othor thought than to advertise for the position. He gave the Houso the assurance that every appointment would.be advertised for. He sincerely hoped that they would not have to go out of New Zealand for a man to fill the position. Personally he know nobody capable of filling it, but it was quite possible that another man as. good as the late Mr. Royd Garlick would be found, and' that, as was now recognised, was saying a vory great deal. Mr.' Isitt said that after the statement mado by the Prime Minister he had no hesitation in withdrawing his amendment. ' * The Hon. J. Allen (Minister of Defence) said that tho cablegram referred to had been sent by him when Minister of Education, and it ivas (seeking advice as to the possibility of getting a medioal man to fill the position. The reply he got was that even in England it would be impossible at, the present time. Ho agreed that the position was an important one, and may be in tho future it would be possible to secure some medical man in New Zealand, send him to England or. America to gain information on the matter, a,nd then appoint him to the position in New/Zealand. The voto was granted. v Estimates Put Through. On- the Outlying Schools vote. The Hon. J. Hanan said that a deputation had recently waited on him asking' that more attention should: bo givijn to instruction on ; temperance. Hei was issuing' a circular to inspectors and . instructors suggesting that more instruction should be given on the subject. ' He had also given instructions to the same offoct with regard to Native -schools. On the Industrial Schools voto, £44,345, Mr. G. Witty (R.iccarton) said that he desired to give a word of praise to tho manner.in which Burnham was oonductod. ' The class was passed at 10.35 p.m. The classes State Forests and State Coal-mines were passed without discussion. . ' On the class Scenery Preservation, The Rt. Hon. W. F. Massey (Minister of Lands) said that nothing was being dono with regard to Lake Waikareinoana in the , meantime. That, with several other matters, would have to stand over. . The class was passed. The Land for Settlements 'Account, Public Trustee's Account, Government Insurance, Government Accident Insurance, Stato Firo Insurance, State Advances, Native Land Settlement, Advanoes to Local Authorities, and Native Minister's Department Accounts were passed in a few minutes. Progress was reported, and the House roso at 10.48 p.m. till 7.30 p.m. on Monday. .