THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2549, 25 August 1915, Page 4

THE HOUSE

The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. Mr. W. NOSWORTHY (Ashburton) gave notice to ask the Government whether they would-take steps tofomend the Legislative Act to increase the life of a Parliament from three years to five years, the amendment to take effect after, the termination of the present Pai'liament. Mr.' W. T.. Jenjrings (Taumarunui) pas granted leave of absence for three days on account of illness. The Hutt Road Bill (No.- 2), the Census Statistics Amendment Bill, and the National Registration Bill were introduced b.v Governor's Message, and read a first time. IMPREST SUPPLY BILL •" i GEKERAii DISCUSSION ' THE COST OF LIVING . An Imprest Supply Bill was introduced by' Governors' Message. • r' Mr. J. T: M. HORNSBY (Waira-" rapa) said he wished to-deal with the cable messages coming to New Zealand. He had for long regretted that' our news came by a second-hand service.' The Australian papers dictated what sort'of a, service they, would'hivej and .New Zealand papers had to take it. Time after time complaints had come from representative men visiting New. Zealand that our news service aid not reflect current British opinion. The news, he said, came from poisoned sources, ami the most poisoned source of all was that of "The Times" and Syclnoy "Sun" services.. The object of this, service was to destroy Lord Kitchener,- fasten conscription upon the country, and to spread the party propaganda. The worst feature of the news lately was the slanderous attacks recently made in-the cable news upon the Irish people. No doubt there were slackers in Ireland, and he did not even say no Irish were rebellious, but were there no'slackers and tkulkers in Now Zealand? : He knew one wealthy • family in Canterbury in which there were five grown-up sons. This family had not contributed to the patriotio funds, and had not given one son to serve in the ariny. But it would'bo grossly unfair to the people of New Zealand to cable this information' Home. He referred to many of the deeds of bravery o£ the.lrish soldiers',in this war as in other wars, and he. appealed to'tho Government, the Press Association, and the newspapers to stop publication of these lying reports. • Mr. J. COLVIN (Buller) said that he. too. as an Irishman, had resented very hotly the publication of lying reports about the loyal Irish people, and ho asked the Prime 'Minister to state his disapproval of the slanders. He was not, a Roman' Catholic Irishman, but ho was very proud of his Roman Catholic countrymen. . . Mr. C: H. POOLE (Auckland West) said that as an Irishman born arid bred he cotihl not allow tho,occasion to pass without' entering a protest against attacks on the fair fame of his country. Dr. H. J. T. THACKER (Christchurchy East) said that the conduct of the Irish in this war both in battle and in deeds of charity to Belgian refusees was sufficient refutation of the ' false cables;

Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hutt)' said that an answer to all the calumnies against Ireland was iu the fact that although Ireland was on tho brink of civil war prior to, August, 1914, the instant the Empire was at grips with Germany, Ireland forgot her internal troubles.' Tlie' Record of History. The Rt. Hon. W. F.MASSEY (Prime Minister) said that he folt, although an ".Irishman, that "he should put in a word for tlie English and the Scotch, as well as the Irish but," after all, he hardly thought it was necessary, for him to do so. Nor did he think it was necessa;rv for- him to defend Ireland or the Irish, or to apologise for them, or, indeed, .'to., take tho slightest, notice, of slanders against them. The records of English history showed what; a jirominentpart Irishmen had taken in lighting tho battles which had won the Empire. A hundred years ago the Duke of Wellington was an Irishman. The man in control of the armies of the Empire to ; day was an Irishman. Other great Irish soldiers were Roberts, • Wolsley, and Fiench. General Godley, eommandins tho New Zealand Expeditionary l'oico, was an Irishman. But lie need not go'through the. whole, list... Jokingly, lie referred to the facit'that tlie Prime Minister of New Zealand is an Irishman, and likewise his first lieutenant, Sir Joseph "Ward. "What was true one hundred years ago would bo true to-day, and' when tho war was over the; greeir corn of spring would firojS fiVjgr tho commingled duiifcf Epg-

lish, Scottish, and Irish, lying in common graves. He felt certain that when the history of the war camo to bo writ-i ten; full justice would bedone to Irishmen. who had borno their part tho war. as had all the other peoples-ot the Empire., Whatever had been tho case in past years, Irishmen to-dav stood united in- the defence of the Empire to which, they belonged. Cost of Living. Mr. P. 0. WEBB (Grey) said ho tlioufhfc-we should be moro fair in our treatment of naturalised' Germans. He ■knew of some of those Germans, married to Now Zealand women, who could not earn their living in New Zealand. He had had naturalised Germans come to hiiri and ask him to endeavour to have thorn interned on Somes Island. Mr. A. H. HINDMARSH (Wellington South) referred to the cost of living. Ho said that the price of food, and especially the price of meat, was rising very rapidly until already it was oppressive. It was monstrous that in a country like this, which exported sheep by the million, meat should bo so expensive that working people could not afford .to buy it. Mr. H. POLAND (Ohinemuri) pleaded for better provision _to prevent' tho spread of miners' phthisis. Tlie Right Hon. W. F. Jlassey (Prime Minister): Legislation will be introduced .this session. Mr. J.- M'COMBS (Lyttelton) said" that on© way to help the cost of living was to make a grant to tho Statistical Department. Tlie . Department had been starved, and tlio inaccurate returns they had had, caused tho people to pay a price for wheat as if there was a shortage, whereas there was no shortage. In view of this the public had a right to know why the price of bread was not down to what it was before the war.: Wheat Matters Again. Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Hutt) desired to know whether the million bushels of Canadian wheat, over which tho Government held an option, had been shipped? The Right Hon. W. F. Massey (Prime Minister): No ; with the exception of the 100,000 bushels I arranged to-, return to New South Wales. The freight paid, lie believed, was £3 ss. They still held the option oyer the balance, and would hold it for about six weeks.

Mr. G. WITTY (R-iccarton): When will the Prime Minister lay the papers connected with the wheat and flour re■turns oil the table? Mr. Massey: The papers, as promised, will, be laid on tli-o table at an early date. He said that some of those who •had made complaints would be sorry they spoke. Mr. J. ANSTEY (Waitaki) desired to know if the returns would be more correct than the previous ones, which were admittedly • inaccurate. Mr. Massey said _ that the RegistrarGeneral assured 'liim -that no returns had been so accurate as the last two. This was the first time the returns had been collected from the threshing machines but lie believed that method could_be relied 011. 'He went on,to 6ay that if the public had known on a certain date in December the real position with regard to wheat and flour in New Zealand there would have been a panic. There was actually only a few days' supply in store when that steamer arrived from. New South Wales with the 100,000 bushels he" borrowed. Mr. Witty*: The hon. gentleman said that some of the members who spoke would be sorry' wheii the returns are tabled. I will not be sorry. Mr. Massey: >You .will bo, or you should be. Mr. Witty went on to deal with statements made .by Mr. Richard Evans, of Canterbury, in which he said lie received no Canadian or American wheat into his mill,from ,tho- Government.' Yet the : Prime : - Miftister.'.said '.'the' Government sold' Mr. Evans -1950 bushels. He con-. tended 1 liis -statemeiit' that .Mr. Evans received 'Government wheat and gold wheat at tt higher price was correct. He' held that there was never any need for importing'wheat. , ; Mr. Massey: .You are. talking, 'absolute nonsense. .• - Mr. Witty: "If the statistics had been taken properly they would have shown a larger area in wheat than was given." Ho was going to give the Prime Minister credit that the returns ■n ere right now, but he should havo seen that they were right twelve months ago.' Was it the Prime Minister's duty .to supply 40,000 bushels to ore mill in Timaru? '. ~ Mr. Massey :■ Do you make that statement? Mr. Witty: I am asking him if it .was right. ' Mr. Nosworthy: Don't shuffle. Mr Witty said that he had repeated his statements about Mr. Evans outside the House. If they were not right it was for- Mr. Evans to sue him. Statement by Mr.' Massey. The Right Hon. W. F.. MASSEY (Prime Minister) said that the hon. member who had moved for that return had the temerity to £et up and say that it would not be furnished. "I tell" him-it will be furnished, and will give every detail with regard to wheat and flour.' A great .many incorrect statements havo been made with regard to those transactions—statements which were known to be unporrect by the pcoplo who made them."

Mr. Massey went on to refer to tho remarks made by the member for Riccarton, and said that many of them were unfair. He had accused either Mr. Evans or him (Mr. Massey) of falsehood., Mr. Speaker: That was withdrawn. Mr. .Witty: I stated that either I 'one or the other was wrong. \ Mr. Massey said that he bad stated definitely that tho Department had sold a certain quantity of wheat to Mr. Evans, and lio said so' now. Mr. Evans had forwarded him a statement in replv to Mr. Witty.'s charges. He had famished statements showing his total holdings of wheat in December and February last, and said that lie (Mr. Evans) had sold wheat to a miller' in January to oblige him, and later on bought a small quantity from fye Government to replaco what bo had 'sold, and for mixing purposes. ( He had received 579 bushels of Australian wheat. That would make 40 tons of flour, and Mr. Evans sold that and 120 tons afc under the regulation price; Mr. Massey repeated that he believed Mr. Evans to be a strictly honourable man. Mr. Witty: I know you do. " Mr. Massey detailed the' arrangements made in tho sale of Government'wheat to nrovido against exploitation, and the guarantees given. -They disposed of. tho statements.tliat the Government was allowing the millers t-o exploit the pub-, lie. and sell attheir own prices. : As to tho statement that there was no need to purchase wheat because there was a surolus. he said that tho Government purchase provided tho surplus.. "Let me make another point,"- continued Mr. Masey, "and it is a point I' have not made up to the present. I am not in the habit of going about tho country blowing my own trumpet. (Laughter.) Well, Sir, the statement I Ivas going to make was this: When it was realised that wo were up against a shortage for last season and possibly for this season ; when war was declared, and wo knew foodstuffs would increase in value. I. issued a request to this 1 armors of this country, mid had it printed in all th 6 principal newspapers, calling upon jiiem, as patriotic people, to sow au additional area in wheat. My ofli-, cers inform me that as tho result of that 23.000 additional acres were sown. There you havo another reason—a strong reason —for the surplus at present time. •' Nobody ever thinks of giving mo credit for that or 'what was mb?; I doa't esßcct jqrfttitoids fro»-

if I did I would certainly be disappointed, (Laughter.) Keeping the Mills Going. ' "Another statement made was that I should not have supplied wheat to the mills that were stopped. Do you suggest that I should supply to those running full time? It seems to; mo that . there were twenty, mills closed down for want of wheat, aud I think the proper thing was to supply those mills and keep them going. 1 say tiiat over twenty mills, I think twenty-three, wei'o absolutely without wheat. Mr. Witty: All that you supplied? Mr. Massey: I.supplied about forty. Mr. Isitt: How mucli'did Mr. Evans have ? Mr. Massey: He had the largest supply of anyone. Does the honourable gentleman suggest that I supplied him because lie was a friend of mine? . Mr. Isitt: I didn't suggest anything.- ' Mr. Massey: »Hvi! be to him who evil thinks, lie pointed out "that tliero was 110 relation between Mr. Evans of Kaiapoi and Mr.' Evans of Timaru, and said that everything that .was done in connection with these transactions had been done free and above-board. Tho returns would havo been laid on the table some time ago, hut for the fact that one of his officers, who had had tlie most to do with the matter, had been laid up for three weeks, and he (Mr. Massey) would not present tho papers till the officer had gone through them. ' • A Very Serious Shrortage. The honourable gentleman had found fault with the collection of statistics. Ho admitted that- the statistics were not at first accurate, but ho had followed the same method as previous Governments. Mr. Witty: You were going to do so much better. ■ Sir. Massey: Wc have done it. We were "the first Government to collect tho returns -from tlircshing-macliines, and. while I don't claim that those returns aro absolutely correct, they are approximately correct. When ho first took a census of wheat he said we had in New Zealand only two months supply of wheat. At the end of January, alter 165,000 bushels of wheat had 'been imported, we had three weeks supply of wheat and two-thirds of it held by three millers. If none had been imported wo would then have had about ten days' .supply. An exceptionally early harvest and a favourable harvest time enabled the. threshing to be done very early,, and those circumstances prevented a shortage. Even now there • was barely enough wheat in New Zealand to supply the needs of the country until' next- harvest, but with the decreased consumption now noticeable, and with certain importations of flour which he knew were beinc made, he believed that lie would have enough, provided 110 wlieat was exported. He had had an application that day . from a merchant, who asked to be allowed to export, 011 condition that he re-imported from Australia when the Australian harvest was gathered. But he did not know yet whether there would be a harvest in Australia—liehoped there would be —and he would take 110 risks with the people's food supply. He had not granted tho application. and 110 would not-grant any other such applications.

Tho "Commandeer" Fetish. He reminded honourable members of tho fact tliat tho danger . of a wheat shortage was first mentioned in tlio House-, and tho Government was urged to act. Being assured that tho danger was a real one, the Government did what no other Government had done—it remitted the . duty on wheat and flour, and prohibited export. Export was still prohibited, and the duty was still remitted. He detailed all the import transactions of ; the Government, emphasising tho fact that when .100,000 bushels of wheat came here from Australia, wo'were very, short of flour indeed. ; When. this wheat arrived, and •the Canadian'wheat which came-;'ater, everv. miller who received it was reauired to sign an undertaking not 'to sell flour above certain fixed prices, varying in different localities according to freight cliarges. . Two millers refused to sign,, and the wheat, that had been sent ,to them; was never banded over to them because of' this Tefusal. It was one of those millers, or his agent, who had supplied information to the member for Riccarton. Mr. Witty: You can't draw me. > Mi-. Massey: I know the man. He was here in Wellington. 'At least, I lenow bis name. I don't want to' know him. Ho added that from information he liad received from officers of his Department. 'ho was satisfied that Mr. Wittv liad received his information from one of thos.o millers. • Tho Government litid - done a great ■ deal. What more could tDe Government have dono ? Mr. Isitt: You-could 'have commandeered the wheat. That's what you could have done. Mr. Massey:/ That is the very answer I wanted to get from the honourable gentleman'. . , . ■ Mr. Isitt: That is the opinion of the country. , Mr. Massa.v: It is not the opinion of tho intelligent section of tho country.Many countries, lie continued, had tried commandcerihg, and it liad failed. New South AVales had tried it, and-'thore was ,a tremendous flourish of trumpets in Now Zealand as well as in -New South Wales in consequence. ' An honourable member: They are not commandeering now. Mr. Massey: They are not commandeering now? Why? I say this—that if it 'had not been for commandeering New South AVales would have had a sufficient supply of wheat for its own requirements. The fact is that a huge area of Wheat was not allowed to ripen, but was cut for wlieaten hay because of the Government announcement that they would give only ss. for wheat. . . Hero it has been my policy and the policy of the Government- to encourage production as much as we can. Prices, lie continued, were lowor iii the New Zealand market than theS' were in the markets of New South Wales.

Outcry for Political Purposes, "Thero lias l>een an; outcry _ in certain quarters, foisted for political purposes in many instances," said Mr. Massey, "about the cost of living. Hon. members know perfectly well tliat prices must go up. when we have as this." A large portion of ;tlie world's shipping had been commandeereii, and freights and insurances had gone up. When that happened business men passed it on to the public. He had l tried to keep down the price 'of commodities, and lie said that ho had been ■ particularly successful in doing so. Mr. Isitt: In wheat? Mr. Massey: If it;liad not been for tlio policy of the Government wheat would have.been very much'dearer today. That was proved by the fact that wheat was dearer in Australia, than Now Zealand 'to-day. Mr. Isitt: You didn't start State bakeries. Mr. Massey: I would have started State' bakeries if bread had gone up another farthing. Just the other day I communicated to the chairnian.'flf the Foodstuffs Commission the fact that bread had gone down. in one or two places, but not in Wellington. In a couple of days notification was mado that bread would be reduced.in price in Wellington. As to butter, and meat, the action of the Government had kept the prices lower than in other places. Mr. Poolo said that producers were getting too much for their beer. Mr. Massey said that lie believed tho producers were entitled, to « fair average world's price,, arid pointed out that beef-exporting countries were selling beef to France and England 1 to-day, at a'hWicr price than New Zealand was paying i : or meat for tjie Imperial Government; ■ '• • . Tiff. Witty wptinnco to refer to wheat

ter had assisted certain millers to the detriment of others. Mr. Massey said that he had nothing to do with the allocation of wheat. In order that the wheat would be d'istribut- { ed fairly lie set' up a Wheat Allocation , Committee, and ho thought the commit- , tee would agree that he had never interfered. Reverting to the matter of Mr. Richard Evans, of Kaiapoi, Mr. Massey read the signed declaration from j Mr. Evans applying for 2COO bushels of wheat, in which Mr. Evans stated he ! had no flour oii\ hand 1 , hut had 18,000 bushels pf wheat, and required the ex- , tra. 2000 bushels for mixing purposes. Food Prices. Mr. P: WIOBB (Grey), in discussing the cost-of-living problem, said that they were asked, in the name of a National Ministry, to have no contentious legislation. That meant they must not expect legislation to regulate prices— that a handful of men would havo tho right to fix prices. He agreed there 6liould be no contentions legislation where matters' affecting the war were concerned, but 011 the question pf local or domestic legislation all the "piffle" about non-contentious legislation was entirely unfair to tho people of tho country. Parliament should not adjourn till they had some legislation to regulate prices. Mr. J. ANSTEY (Waitaki) spoke at length 011 the wheat question, and said that farmers expected: a reasonable return. They would not, he said, expect the Labour members to work for half pay for patriotic ptu-poses, or the Prime Minister to give up his salary. . Mr." Massey: I would if it was necessary. Mr. Anstey proceeded, and said: "You must leave this patriotic nonsonse out of it altogether." ' Mr. Massey: What? Mr. W. NOSWORTHY (Ashburton) | said that the farmers were as patriotic as anybody in New Zealand. By taking the prices given by the Imperial Government for their meat—and he did not say it was a low price—they had given about a million and a pounds to the Empire, when the prices were compared to those ruling elsewhere. If a man could get 7s. a bushel for wheat it was a fail- tiling that lie should take it, for they had to consider the many years when he lost money. A lot of tbo tallc about the cost of living had been nothing but party ammunition. It was tiring to listen to the tirades against the fanners by the people who kneiv nothing about the matter. The Bill was read a second time, and was committed forthwith. The Bill was put through all stages and passed at 11.5 p.m. The House then rose till 2.30 this afternoon. The debate on the Bill was remarkable for one feature —that in tlie course of it not one word was said about finance. Probably the incident is unique in the history of tho New Zealand Parliament. .'