DISCUSSION IN TEE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2509, 9 July 1915, Page 6

DISCUSSION IN TEE HOUSE

EXPERTS INSPECT THE SITE , GOVERNMENT WILL BE GUIDED BY THEIR REPORT ' . Trentham. camp conditions • and the suggestion that the camp site' should bo, shifted _woro the subjects of a lengthy debate in tlie. House of Representatives yesterday; afternoon, when Sir Joseph AVard asked tho Prime Minister or the , Minister of Defence whether it was not desirable to have another camp for the men at Trentham to be removed to altogether.-. :The present condition', lie said, was ,reported on, particularly by the parents of the men and their relations, to: be. of such, a nature, that he asked the Government to give the matter immediate attention. ; It' could; not be denied- that there was considerable, anxiety by the friends and relations of the men in camp, apart altogether from the men themselves. His own opinion , was that the whole camp should he removed, and removed) without;, delay. The matter was of importance, and letters and telegrams were coming to him from all parts of New Zealand, and he could' not,.as a public man sit waiting in connection with the matter. He urged that the .'whole camp in the meantime should be removed, and tho causes of tho trouble should be found- out later. Camp Site Said to bo Healthy. The Minister of Defence (tho Hon. J. Allen), in reply, said that he was aware of the anxiety that had arisen in the country in connection with the Trentham camp. It was impossible for anyone in tne.House to say, without experience, and without having had the opportunity' of inquiring fully into what was being done, whether Trentham camp' was' a healthy camp or not! The advice given to'.-.him , by.' the Public Health' Department was-that,the camp was perfectly healthy, and'that the trouble,which had •arisen.did not originate in Trentham at all. :

The hon. gentleman had suggested that: they should remove the camp. The Camp Commandant (Colonel Potter), the Chief of the General. Staff (Colonel Gibbon), Dr. Valintine (Chief of the Military. Hospitals), Dr. Frengley (Public. Health Department), and tlio City Engineer (Major Morton) were meeting that afternoon in the camp to thoroughly .examine it again, although he had had advice that tho camp was perfectly sound. If they were to shift'the camp, whore were they going to shift it to?., .' : Voices: Auckland, Cambridge, Timaru. . ■ ~ - • Mr. Allen: Yes, everyone wants it in his own locality. If we shift-this camp how are we going to make provision'foi sanitation, drainage, water supply, etc., at a moment's notice? .. Epidemic Common to New Zealand, Mr. Allen: "I want to relieve anxiety at the earliest moment. lam sorry it has arisen. : It is an ep'demic common not only to the camp, bus right throughout the country." As far as he knew everything was being done to deal with the epidemic at Trenthim. It was safe to say that when the cpidemio assumed the proportions it had lately done, the medical'staff was not large enough, but -it, =>v'as immediately reorganised, and he had every hope now that tlio staff was sufficient, and ample provision was. made now to deal with any cases of sickness that might arise at Trentham. With regard to shifting tho camp, ho noticed in The Dominion that day an article -which was disturbing to the public mind. A member: See the Auckland papers.

Huts Specially Constructed. Mr. Allen: I am aware that tlio Auckland papers are the same. It was said that tents had not been moved on the camp site, and' it was said that the huts were not healthy. Ho would like to know what would h? healthy. Those huts were built- after consideration by a speoial board set up for the purpose, consisting of tho Government Architect, the City Engineer, and Dr. Frengloy, and When the inquiry took-place, as it would take placo bei'oro a Royal Commission, ovidenco would bo given that the greatest care was used by himself and his Department, and that the greatest provision was made for health. One hut was put np as a sainplo hut, and certain weaknesses were discovered. One was that the ventilation camo from below. Immediately instructions wore given that that was to be stopped. It was thought that it was stopped by putting in a plate,at the bottom, but jhgx foijud tfci-Ji iihat ef%t{ygi.

and other steps were, being taken to stop the trouble. Dr. Thacker: 'Hie huts should be lined. Mr. Allen: I don't agreo with the honourable gentleman. At any rate, w'hen the honourable gentleman says tlio huts should be lined' they were designed by tlie Government Architect, the City Engineer, and Dr. l'Veiiglcy, of the Public Health Department. Dr. Thacker:'They are not military. Mr. Allen: Major Morton is a military officor. "With regard to the drainage, it was specially designed by the same hoard,- Major Morton gave special attention to it, and lie understood it was thoroughly up-to-date. The surfaco drainage was designed by tlie County Engineer, Mr. Jickell. It was not complete, but was rapidly being completed, and so far as lie knew there was nothing in 'J'rentliam camp itself to create, a disturbance. Some of the touts of tlio Seventh Reinforcements did not vet havo floor boards, but one of the difficulties was lack of dry timber. At any rate, the tent boards were being made as rapidly as possible, and a, great many tents had floors. Even where tliey were not available he knew enough about tents to know that a. man could make himself comfortable in a tent, even without a floor. He ventured to say that it would be found later 011 that the provision made at Trontham was all that one could have anticipated for the health of the men there, and he hoped what he had said would for the time being remove anxiety. Ho also hoped that, the roport they got from the gentlemen out there that afternoon would still further relieve the anxiety. He Was quite well aware that some of the men had suffered discomfort owing to'the lack of a second pair of boots. But they could use their own boots when they came in. As soon as possible they would all be supplied with a second pair of regulation boots, arid lie hoped that by the end of tlie week all the men would" he supplied, with the second pair. ■ ' Delay in Hospital Construction. Sir Joseph Ward also asked why, when contributions had been given by private individuals for the erection of a hospital at Trentliam, nothing had been done in: the matter? Ho himself and many people had contributed to tlio provision of a stationary, hospital where men might in time of sickness receive treatment equal to that in a hospital in town. Ho desired to know who was responsible for its not being gone 011 with, and where was the money. He was not suggesting responsibility on the part of anybody in particular, but it had been indicated that Trentham was to be the place 'where the hospital would be. . .

Mr. Allen said-that tho contract was let'for the hospital, and- should havo been completed on Juno 27, and the buildings could be seen out there. Tho contractor had not completed it in time, and was being fined for every day overdue. He had asked tlio Commandant if tho, work could not bo taken out of the hands of the contractor, and completed by the Government, but to that request he had not yet received a reply.

If Necessary, Camp to be Shifted.

With reference to a former * remark by Sir Joseph Ward, the Prime Minister said that the Government' was aware of the anxiety of the people of tho country regarding what had 'taken place at Trentham. .There, was no doubt that the wet month of June, when it rained practically every day, contributed very largely to the spread of measles and influenza.. But members talking of shifting the camp should remember the amount of work that had been done there. ■ ■ ■

Sir Joseph Ward: I don't think it matters about the work if there is going to be disease.

Mr.' Massey : The Trentham site has been used for : camps for many years. Dr. Thacker: Twenty years!

Masscy said that the sito was low-lying, but it was supposed to.be a particularly healthy locality, and had one advantage, that there were six feet of gravelly soil, enabling satisfactory drainage. Another site would require reading and building upon. In a very few days electric light would be turned on at Trentham. As for. mud, it was impossible to'.avoid it in wet weather when a large number of men were gathered together, and mud had contributed to the spread of. disease, but was now disappearing. 1 An inquiry •would; bo" held in a few days, and a preliminary inquiry was being held that day by experts as to whether the camp should bo transferred. ■If they reported that tho camp should be shifted for tho health ,of the men, or that it should bo divided, either course would : be. adopted at the earliest possible mo-. meat. 'He hoped to announce. the personnel and order of reference of' tho Royal Commission that day. • The best means of securing tho health of the men. in camp, and the cause of the disease, would be inquired into by tho Commission. Royal Commission and the Press. Sir Joseph Ward said that the inquiry should be open to' the Press, and the order of referonco should be wide enough to enable full inquiry to be made. Mr. Massey:.lt is for the Commission to say'whether the Press shall be admitted. • '' Hon. members: No 1 Mr. Massey said he hoped the Press would be admitted, and the fullest publicity given to tho deliberations of tho Commission. Its scope would .bo as wide as it was possible to make it, and it would have full access to all documents and, reports. Dr. Thacker: May I mako a statement with tho indulgence of the House? I feel that I am the root and. branch of the inquiry (laughter.) . The request was negatived, and Dr. Thacker, then asked the Minister of Defeuce if the Hospital Ship had been rented. It should, ho said, have been bought by the .Government, for when it came back to Now Zealand it could lie in one of the harbours or travel between them as a floating hospital, and as a memorial of the work'it had done. Mr. Allen said tbat ; the Government had not bought tho ship. It had been hired from the Union Company on very favourable terms, and he was prepared to submit the charter to the House. Danger of Infection. •' Mr! J. B. Hino said he understood that sick parages were held at„ the camp twico daily, and that men who were not quite well were often reported as fit for light duty. Ho would ask the Minister to give instructions that men in this condition should not go back to their comrades, possibly to infect them, but that they should be isolatod. , . The Hon. J. Allen said that if men reported for light duty' were likely to give infection they should not go hack to their tents. The Hon. R. H. Rhodes said that Dr. Valintine had reported to him that it. was difficult to get men slightly ill to roport daily, but that he was trying to induce men who woro 'slightly ill to parado for inspection.

Whose Jurisdiction? , The Hon. D. Buddo asked -whether the military hospitals ivero under the jurisdiction of the military authorities or the Public Health Department. He stated that the soldiers and their relatives had lost confidence in tho Army medical orgauisation, and. it would allay anxiety if it irero announced that the Public Health Department had assumed control. The Hon. R. H. Rhodes stated that since the Minister of Defence had asked tho Public Health Department to take over tho organisation of tho military hospitals they, had been under the supervision of Dr. Valtntine, whose staff had supplemented the existing staff for the wore. The serious cases were sent irgt to %e Maa&B .foftenq gos-

pital. Whon they were partly recovered they wore sent to Kaiwarra Hospital, and when discharged from there the men went either to their own homes or to convalescent homes. Occasionally men became ill suddenly at the. camp, and it was not wise to move them. These cases were treated at Trentham..

Csncerning Letters Home. Mr. H. Poland (Ohinemuri) asked whether soldiers who had to go into hospital from Trontham had free permission to write letters to their parents. The father of one-of the men now sick had informed him that lie had received a note from his boy written in pencil and written under the bedclothes. He had had a telegram from the samo father asking him to find out how the boy was progressing. The Hon. It. H. Rhodes said that anybody suffering from an infectious disease such as measles was not allowed to writo letters. There was, he understood, 6ome fear that letters would carry infection. But. he had given instructions that a man was to be told off to communicate for patient? with their parents, and to inform the parents when men are sent to hospital, and afterwards to send progress reports. That scheme was now, in operation. . The Eight Hon. W. F. Massey said that he had lately visited the Kaiwawa Hospital, and he could say with confidence that the building was particularly suitable, and that the men were very happy and comfortable. He did not think it was possible to make any improvement in the treatment of the men there. Sir Joseph Ward suggested' that patients should bo allowed to write, aud that the letters shou'd be sterilised.

The Hon. 11. H. Rhodes said he bad to bs guided by his medical 'idviiuvs in a matter of this sort. He was not sure whether it would bo practicable to sterilise the letters' or not. _ He kr;e\Y as Postmaster-General that it was not easy to sterilise letters that wero closed. Anotlioi way of getting' o.ver' '.he difficulty would be to let somebody wnte letters for the men. The secretary" of tho New'. Zealand Natives' Association had talked with him about members cf the association visiting the sick men, and it might bo possible to _ arrange for the members of the association to write letters for tho men. If they would undertake the work he would be very pleased to accept tho services of the association.