A NATIONAL FUND

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2472, 27 May 1915, Page 3

A NATIONAL FUND

9 DIFFERENCES OF OPINION [ PENSIONS ACT CRITICISED FEDERATION OF COMMITTEES MINISTERS INTERVIEWED | Tho Conference of Mayors and Patriotic Committee officials called by the Mayor (Mr. J. P. Luke) was held in tlio Mayor's room yesterday. There were present:—Messrs. J. P. Luke (Mayor of Wellington), in the chair, T. B. Williams and Hope-Gibbons (representing tho Wanganui Patriotic Committee), J. M. Coradine (Mayor of Jlasterton), G. S. Cray and G. Maling (South Canterbury Committee of Public Safety), H. Baldwin (Mayor of Lower Hutt), H. Holland (Mayor of Christchurch), R. T. Tosswill (secretary of the Canterbury Patriotic Society), Hon. J. G. W. Aitken, M.L.C. (Wellington), Messrs. H. _ G. Hill (chairman Wellington Patriotic Society), J. Lewis (secretary Wellington Patriotic Society), Mr. Frith (Mayor of Oamaru), and Mr. C. C. Crump (Mayor of Onslow). In opening the conference the chairman read the resolutions passed at the big meeting held in the Town Hall on Tuesday week, and indicated that it would be useless to wait on the Prime Minister before any definite scheme was evolved. It was proposed that the Mayors of the four centres, with a representative from each provincial district, should act as trustees of the Fund. Ho stated that many substantial donations had been made provisionally on the Fund being made a national one. It might be that the Government itself would need to take steps, as the fund might be too large for any executive to take charge of. He was convinced that those who were not sympathetically inclined towards tho National Fund proposal would live to regret their view. It was desirable that such a fund should be on a national basis, as many men residing in one district had enlisted in another. Ho 1 was of the opinion that the Public Trustee should control the Fund. Mr. H. Baldwin (Mayor of the Hutt) said that they ought to be prepared to place the Fund in such a position that the experiences of those who fought in the Crimea would not be repeated, and that our men who • are wounded or disabled in the fighting now taking place should not be dependent on charity. He moved that a National Fund for the Relief of Wounded Soldiers and_ Sailors and their Dependents be established. Mr. H. G. Hill favoured a National Fund. He thought Mr. Baldwin had struck the nail on the head when he said that our men were fighting for New Zealand as a whole, not for any particular section or aero of it, and they should not be concerned so much with where a man came from so long as he was fairly treated'and well looked after. South Canterbury Ideas. Mr. G. S. Cray (Timaru) said that just as the funds were on a national basis in England so should they be in New Zealand. He submitted a scheme they (the South Canterbury Committee of Public Safety) had made to Christchurch which lie begged permission to read. This proposal suggested the advisability of arranging a conference of Patriotic- Committees for the purpose of fixing a uniform scale of allowances for the relief of dependents, and defining the conditions under which relief is to be granted; also to take into consideration all matters nccessary for the proper administration of the funds to secure the maximum advantage for those for whose benefit the funds were Bubscribed. The scheme iu question pointed out among other things that as it is probable that some local funds will be depleted before the necessity of affording relief has beeu concluded, and. as the extent of the claims on the various funds will depend on tilie casualties incurred by the district regiments, some scheme of federation may 5 be advisable to meet the hazards on an equitable basis. These risks may ; be covered by mutual insurance witli- i out disturbing the advantage of local ] control and without involving direct i amalgamation of funds if some agree- ] ment oan be concluded whereby any < fund which is depleted can be roplen- 1 ished from those funds that remain financially sound, the method and extent i of such contributions to be covered i by fixed conditions, and to be subject 1 to such control as may be decided upon i b 7 the conference. As some districts i have contributed men in excess of their < quota, and have not been in a position l to provide relief funds as liberally as richer localities, it is manifestly desirable that full available relief for those • Who need _ it should be given on a na- < tional basis apart from local considerations, and the suggested federation of 1 the various funds would secure this 1 purpose whilst retaining the advanfr- c at»e of control by the respective local committees. If federation is accom- 1 plished it would he desirable that the financial year of each fund should ter- i minate on a fixed uniform date, and I that balance-sheets should be exchanged between all federated committees so i that a full knowledge would be avail- l able regarding the operation of each fund. g Mr. Cray was of opinion that they I should first know what the Government c was going to do in tho matter of pen- r sions, and after that there should be a standard of relief settled upon. He i' fancied that the Mayor would have a t stupendous task breaking through local c jealousies. It might be a better no- h tion to allow_ each district to woTk out d its own destiny and when the advant- t ages and disadvantages of the various o district schemes were well known, it j would be a kind of stepping-stone to the establishment of some sort of fed- t eration, such as he had submitted. h Government National Fund Urged, e Mr. H. Holland (Mayor of Christ- 1 church) thought that a National Fund ® should be established in Wellington for '' the immediate relief of those arriving here from the front. This would 1 be the first port of call, and he was of opinion that the Government should really establish a National Fund, and they in Christchurch had almost gone cap in hand begging the Government to I establish such a fund. As far a 6 the other funds were concerned ho was not disposed to think they would benefit by a scheme of centralisation, and as s both Otago and Auckland appeared to 1 be standing out he was doubtful if they " would be able te establish such a fund I as was proposed. Fund Not Retrospective. Mr. H. G. Hill pointed out that the { resolution moved by the Hon. A. L. c Herdman did not act retrospectively. a It did not mean that monoy collected in the past should be paid into the s fund. The proposition was to "create" j a fund, which meant to "commence." . They hoped to raise £50,000, which J would be paid into tho National Fund, j not to any parochial fund. f Mr. Tosswill (secretary of the Cantor- e bury Patriotic Society) sai.l that if all t the centres and districts were to have t their own funds ho could not for tho life of him see the wisdom of establish- i ing another fund. He quoted cases c of returned soldiers, who would have i to bo immediately attended to on their arrival home, and they Inid also to at- \ tend to the wives oi' those who had i gone to the front. He was even now J

| paying out about thirty-five cheques a week. Referring to the Government Pensions Act, ho said tliat they wero told that the Act was to bo amended, and it was therefore not likely that the Pensions Board would sit until thoso amendments were made, which would be at least three months hence. In tho meantime the men would have to wait in practically a penniless condition. He would like to bring under the notice of the conference motions ha , had drafted dealing with funds for 1 wounded and invalided soldiers and pensions. These.were practically adopted, and appear below in the resolutions finally adopted by the conference. Jlr. Coradine (Mayor of Masterton) did not think that there was anything to be gained by establishing a National Fund at the present timo. They had a very complete scheme, and practically only 0110 committee, and their funds wore so arranged so that ttey were able to deal with, any responsibility that may devolve upon t-heni 011 account cl' the war. They were now helping people, and had a fund for helping wounded soldiers and their dependents. They had set aside 25 per cent, of their money to that fund, and at present had £7000 in hand. Mr. T. B. Williams (Wanganui) agreed with Messrs. Holland, Tosswill, and Coradine that all funds should be administered locally. He also thought that the Pensions Act should be revised. The Hon. J. 6. W. Aitken said that there did not seem to be any chance of achieving any universality in tho control of funds, and he would suggest that a small committee be set up to draft some scheme that would bring Otago and Auckland and every other province into line. He thought that a National Fund was absolutely essential —the experience of the South African War was totally opposed to tho district method of administration. Mr. Hope-Gibbons (Wanganui) said that he agreed with Mr. Aitken. Ho was who'ly in favour of tho establishment of a National Fund. Mr.' Maling (South Canterbury) said if it was not for the Patriotic Funds there would be people starving. There wore wives with families in his district who had been left almost penniless, and the State had done nothing for them. The Only Way. The chairman quoted letters showing bow many people had subscribed on the conditions that the Fund being established should have a national basis, and among others read tho letter forwarded by Messrs. Murray, Roberts, and Co. (which has appeared in these columns), and gave the opinion that it would be found to be the only way of dealing with the conditions that would arise not now, perhaps, but for years to come, and even, after the war, when of necessity all popular interest would be dropped, and changes would inevitably be made in the personnel of the patriotic committees and societies. He thought' they should go into committee, with the object of formulating resolutions for submission to tho Government. Mr. H. Baldwin (Hutt) moved:— "That in the opinion of this meeting a National Fund should be formed. He said that the arguments adduced at the conference had all shown that tho National Fund was the only solution of tho position. Mr. Frith (Oamaru) asked what was the position of those who had come to the conference simply to gain information. They could not vote—and if they did not the proposal would fall to tho ground. Mr. H. G. Hill said that the conference had broken down many barriers, and now he thought that, after consideration, it was perhaps best for delegates to return to consult their own committees and put before them the information gained at the meeting.- % "A Breeze." At this point Mr. Tosswill said that it was all very well for the Wellington delegates to call into t'he Town Hall, but it was not quite so convenient for tliose who lived at Auckland, Christchurch, Dunedin,- and Invercargill, who could not always be running about on patriotic business. Could they not do something definite now? Surely to goodness they had enough present to arrive at some definite conclusion? They would not got a better conference later he was sure. Mr. Hill asked permission to move an amendment (fearing that the bald motion would kill the National Fund proposal at once), but was refused permission to do so by the Mayor. Then, prompted by Mr. Hill, Mr. Baldwin asked leave to alter his motion to the following form:— "That this. meeting of delegates agrees that the time has arrived when a National Fund should bo established, but in order to give each committee and society an opportunity of discussing tho matter properly, the conference be adjourned to a date to bo arranged." Mr. J. Lewis seconded. The chairman: "Who is going to call another conference? I won't call another one!" Mr. Hill said that now the delegates : had gathered information they would 1 like to lay the new points before their committees. The chairman: "The Government will 1 have to call the next conference." Mr. Baldwin: "Oh, we'll get over that—we'll call it. Would a fortnight : hence suit? Three weeks? A month?" '■ Mr. Holland favoured the chairman's 1 idea of going into committeo as the ' best proposal. ' Mr. Luke then put this proposal to ] go into committee as a whole and sup- ' ply the Press with the effect of the decisions arrived at and declared it car- 1 ried. ! Mr. Baldwin at once rose, and reach- ' ing for his hat, said that if that was the way the business was to to con- ( ducted he must leave the room. He ! had a motion before "the 'meeting that deserved full consideration. It was one that he had moved in place of his first which if put would have killed the National Fund proposal. Mr. Luke: "It is receiving consideration." Mr. Baldwin: "No, another motion has been put to tho meeting." After explaining that he could not attend tlie meeting as he was due at a meeting of the Hospital Board, Mr. Baldwin left. I; The conference then adjourned for t luncheon. 1 i DECISIONS OF CONFERENCE. ' 1 FEDERATION OF PATRIOTIC FUND COMMITTEES. j At the conclusion of the committee I sitting of the conference in the after- 1 noon, the Press were handed the fol- i lowing resolutions which had been ! passed:— _ ] "(1) That this conference, with the < view of putting the various funds on a I uniform Tbasis, agree that the different ] Patriotic Committees federate, and that tho delegates ask their committees to consider the advisability of establishing a national scheme." "(2) That the Mayors of Wellington and Christchurch and Messrs. H. G. I Hill, G. S. Cray, and R. T. Tosswill be ; an executive for the purpose of bring- i ing down regulations to be submitted j to tho different patriotic organisations 1 for consideration at tho next confer- 1 enco. Tho date of the next conferenco I to be determined by the above cxccu- 1 tire." , ' "(3) That tho regulations dealing I with the examination of invalided soldiers returning to this Dominion be rigidly enforced." "(4) That thin conference, with a ,| view of obtaining uniformity of action, recommends to all commit'tces in Now coiUrolliug fuud§ colJcc.Wd Jpj

1 tho benefit/ of our soldiers and sailors b and their dependents tho following gen--3 oral principles:— J 00 That the domicile of the ap- • phcanfc ishall determine tho (listuet fund upon which rest 6 the obligation to grant relief. ' ~ W l'' lil t tho uniform scale of relicl adopted by this conference bo the relief granted to dependent: r and \ To safeguard tho funds and ■ avoid overlapping, any applications 1 or grants likely to aifect other distiict funds shall _be at once refer--1 red to tho committee interested by tho committee receiving tho application or making the grant as the 1 case may be." 1 n k' l ' 3 inference urgo upon , the Government tho necessity of amendI'i'nn l )al k t' lo Defence Act of IJOd relating to pensions and allow- ; uncos, by providing more liberally for 1 our soldiers and their dependents, particularly in t,i ie following directions:— (a) By enabling officers and men with good conduct to obtain pensions by right of service; (b) By enabling pensions to be granted to widows and dependents without the Pensions Board first having to be assured that the claimant 13 in necessitous circumstances or actual poverty; (c) By eliminating such provisions as will preclude patriotic or other funds making supplementary grants to our soldiers or their dependents; and any proviso affecting the right 10 a pension or allowance which may be jeopardised under the present regulations by reason of any grants or allowances of a permanent nature by such patriotic or oilier funds as the case may be." DEPUTATION TO MINISTERS t'he pension question. NATIONAL FUND FAVOURED. 1 he members of the conference waited upon tne Prime Minister later in the afternoon to put before him the resolutions arrived at, and to ask the Government for assistance in the'r proposalsj. ihey asked Mr. Massey to state what the Government intended to do in the matter of making the military pensions more liberal, and they also urged that every man disabled should receive a pension as of right, irrespective of what his financial position might be. They did not think that in order to receive a pension a man should be compelled to prove himself a pauper. In reply, Mr. ilassey said that there were two points about which the deputation wished him to express an opinion—the proposed National Fund, and the amendment of the Act relating to pensions. He was very strongly 111 favour of a national scheme for the establishment of a relief fund; 110 other scheme could be satisfactory. He did not see any objection to local representatives 011 the Board of Trustees, but there could not be one sot of payments for men in one district and another set of payments for men in another district. The Government would lend tho scheme all the help possible. With regard to pensions, tho Government intended to submit amendments of the Defence Act to Parliament this session, and it would be for Parliament to say what shape the Act would finally take. The Government wished to make the pensions payable under the Defence Act much more liberal than they now were, but he could not discuss detailed proposals because the Bill had not been drafted. lle did not think they would have any fault to find with the Bill when it appeared. The Government did not wish to shirk responsibility, and would see that disabled men were adequately provided for. But there were thousands of New Zoaland people willing and anxious to contribute to these funds, the object of which was to ensure to needy men a littlo extra comfort. He believed those moneys could be put to particularly good use, because even after the pensions were liberalised the payments to some men would requiro augmenting. It had been suggested by the deputation that pensions should be awarded to men irrespective of what their financial position might bo. That wa-s exactly the position in regard to veterans'* pensions. and that was the rule he would like to see observed in regard to soldiers serving in this war. Of course, it would cost money, but the Government must face it, and the country must face it. Mr. Hill: The country will be with you, Sir. The Defence Minister Advises Caution. After the interview with Mr. Massey had ended the Minister of Defence (the Hon. J. Allon) came into the room, and he was promptly interviewed in his turn. Tho deputation asked him to state his opinion as to whether pensions ought to be receivable irrespective of whether tho applicant was without means or wealthy. Mr. Allen: I think I should point out to you that if you insist upon that it must mean that the needy man will receive a smaller pension than the Government could otherwise grant. . . . I must ask you to seriously consider whether you are not going to do a great deal of harm to the man who has not any money, Mr. Hope-Gibbons (Wanganui): I feci with the Defence Minister. As a business man I am of opinion that the view ho has put forward is the view wo should support. We want tho highest pension for the man who requires it, and wo don't want a'pension for tho man who doesn't need it. In this view, however, Mr. Hope-Gib-bons appeared to have only one or two supporters among the dclegatos present, This interview was interrupted without further discussion by the arrival of His Excellency the Governor, who had business with the Prime Minister.