ELECTION INQUIRY

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2451, 3 May 1915, Page 6

ELECTION INQUIRY

LAW OF AGENCY PETITIONERS' CASE CLOSED (By Telegraph—Spccial Correspondent.) . Kaikohe, May 1. The hearing of tho Bay of Islands election petition was continued before Mr. Justice Chapman and Mr. Justice Hosking to-day. Sir John Findlay, K.C., with him Mr. P. Levi and Mr. P. Endean, appeared for the petitioners, and Mr. J. 11. Reed, K.C.. with Mr. R. M'Veagh, for the respondent, Vernon H. Reed. Sir John Findlay called Johu Jacentho, retired man, of Peria, who said he had lived in the district for 54 years. He supported Wilkinson in 1911 and Reed in 1914. After tho meeting at Peria Reed entered into conversation with witness and a number of others. Witness and Reed did not speak alone. .Reed remarked that Wilkinson stood in his road, and it would be'better for him if Wilkinson stood down. The member added that it was worth ever so much to him if Wilkiuson stood down. A further conversation took place two days later, at which witness, Reed, and a buggy-driver' were present. Reed was getting -into ■ the buggy. Witness said he was going to see Samuels, who was Wilkinson's secretary, to see what he could do in the matter. His idea was to get Wilkinson to stand down. Reed said "All right." The Question of Expenses. Witness said he saw Samuel in his own house, and asked him if there was any chance of Wilkinson's standing down. . The reply was: "Not half a chance." Regret was expressed by witness on account of both candidates. Sir John Findlay: Was anything said about payment? Witness: "I said if. it was a matter of expenses he would get paid for it. I told Samuels lie would be paid as well. This was if Wilkinson would stand down. I referred to travelling expenses." What did Samuels say?—" That nothing could be done, but that he would send the offer on to Wilkinson." Was anything said as to the amount? -"No." .

Did you say anything about the effect , of Wilkinson's standing down ?—"Perhaps I said Buck would get in if both , went to the poll." Who was to pay -the . expensesP — "That I don't know." When you conveyed this offer, wtiom did you expect was to pay the expenses?—" Mr. M'Glashan told me that a committee would be formed." And the committee would pay the expenses?—"l: presume so." A Large Amount of Money. Sir John Findlay: When you saw. Samuels did you not say it would, be worth a large amount of money to Reed if Wilkinson retired?—"l remember saying something to the effect that Reed would not stop at a very large amount if Wilkinson withdrew.!' What did you mean?—" That Reed might joiu; the committee and help to pay some of it. _ Reed was to be asked to pay some of it." . • , When Reed sp<)ke to you and others at Peria and said it would be worth ever so much to'him if Wilkinson stood down, what did he mean?—"l thought he might give something or he might give nothing." Witness said he kept the conversations with .M'Gtlashan .'to,himself. „H» kept it a seorot from Rieed as he did not consider it. necessary to tell him. Sir John Findlay: Were you not askod by Mr. Endean some time ago this question—who was to pay, and aid you say Reed was —"I won't swear. I might have said it." t Did you tell Mr. Endean you told Samuels you thought Reed would pay Wilkinson his travelling' excuses?— "I might have said it or I might not. I admit I told Mr. Endean \Reed was talking in a kind of-way t as if he would pay something to Wilkinson to stand down. 1 swear I did not say to Endean that R«ed said in a kind of wa.v or that Reed said in a Tound-about way it 'was worth very much money to him if Wilkinson would stand down. I must have been misunderstood." Witness Cross-examined. Answering Mr. J. R. Reed witness| said his financial position was pretty sound. He was a Portuguese, aged 74, and could only spread his signature over cheques. (Laughter.). Ho had never seen respondent from the date h<s drove away from Peria. Until after the election his only interviews with Reed were in the presence of others. Prior to the Peria'meeting witness had not seen Reed for three years. Mr. Reed: I am instructed that the first time respondent knew anything about this offer was when he received the petition. Have you any reason to believe otherwise? —"I don't know if anybody told him anything. I never, saw him." : , Witness said M'Glashan said "We would pay it" by Retting people to subscribe. He particularly mentioned Ludbrook. Nothing was < done in the matter of raising subscriptions. Reed never asked witness to work for him or do anything. If Wilkinson _had kept to his piatform,. neither Wilkinson nor Reed would have got in.- He told Wilkinson ho had no chance. He admitted "pulling the legs" of the people' who first interviewed him. He thought they were "fishing." Hei thought Reed would pay a, portion of Wilkinson's expenses, although he had not authority from Reed to say that. He felt he was doing more for Wilkinson than for Reed. Sir John Findlay closed his case at noon. Case for Respondent. ! Mr. Reed, K. 0., said there was one , serious charge, that, relating to Jacen- . tho. Such a charge should not hang over respondent longer than absolutely necessary; and he submitted that there was nothing before the Court to war- ,• rant it in holding that there was proof of agency An indictment must belaid ■ for anything constituting corrupt prac- , tice. An indictment for corrupt prac- ■ tices would lie against an innocent cani; didate. Tho Aot provided a penalty not ' exceeding £400 for corrupt practice, and i not exceeding £100 for illegal prac--1 tice, besides _ subjecting offenders to other disabilities. Mr. Reed submitted that it was not sufficient that there should be suspicion ' of agency. There must be some evi--1 dence to show that a person said to be an agent was an agent. Courts had abstained from giving a definition of what would constitute agency. It was, continued Mr. Reed, a chance conversation on tho road and it was upon that flimsy foundation that , the other side must urge that there was > proof of agency. Of all the cases he had read not one was as flimsy in 1 the matter of proof of agency. It must be clearly, shown that respondent 1 when sitting in the buggy knew what was proposed. It seemed to be a perfectly clear case of a person in the hope of influencing the election acting on his own responsibility. Their Honours said they did not propose to decide tho question of Jacentho's agency as a preliminary question. ■ Mr. Reed submitted that assuming that all the evidence given for petitioners respecting the Upper House and alleged retirement in twelve months was correct, it did not prove corrupt practice, lie contended that if Wilk- . inson could not be convicted for accepting a bribe. Reed could not lie convicted. Mr. Rood proceeded to refer to a 1 statement that the expenses of Mr. . Lawry bad been paid before he retired. J.Siii■ John Ficdkx strongly, ohieoted ta.

6uch a statement being • There might be a reflection on him. Mr. Reed: It was not at the election: at which my friend was a candidate. Iti is regarded by the public as a genera! thing for a candidate to bo negotiated with prior to retiring. A man did noli retire without having his expenses. It had not been looked upon as wrong. Sir John Findlay: That is quite' wrong. Who pays the expenses? Mr. Reed: I don't know. Sir John Findlay: That is all the difference. Mr. Reed: Over and over again a defeated candidate has gone to the Legislative Council. ' • Mr. Justice Chapman: We have heard of that sort of thing. We see the sarcasm of the newspapers on the other side,' that is all we know of it< (Laughter.) . Respondent's Evldenoe. Evidence was given by Vernon Herbert Reed, barrister and solicitor, who said that in 1912 he voted against the Mackenzie Administration. J. C. JohnI son actively worked against him in 1914 ' and voted against him at the meeting ofi delegates'. Ever since he had been in. Parliament he 'had desired to see the peninsula represented' in the Upper House. The peninsula had a population greater than Hawke's Bay. In 1913 ha approached the Prime Minister and sug« gested that Johnson be appointed. Mjj.. Massey distinctly entertained the suggestion. Witness asked Johnson if he would accept the appointment, if •it went his way. A definite reply 'was not given, as Johnson had to consider his business interests. In June,' 1913, Wilkinson's name was suggested by Mr.' Mas6ey in preference to that of Johnson. Witness informed the 1 Prima Minister that he had not received a definite answer from Johnson. Mr. Massey's Visit. Witness declared, that Mr.' Massey,' came up to open the Kaikohe railway, in April, 1914. , A meeting of the delegates to the Reform League of the'previous election had been convened to meet Mr. Massey at Ohfiewai. Witness had not tried to influence the meeting, and kept his supporters from joining the old league. One cf his supporters was at the meeting, and some ot the others turned from Wilkinson to witness. The meeting was not representative, and he accordingly declined to be bound by its decision. The conference resulted ill a deadlock ajid the delegates left the matter, in the hands of Mr. Massey, the latter promising to deal definitely, with the position within three weeks. Mr. Wilkinson placed himself unreservedly in the hands of the conference, which placed, itself in the hands of Mr. Massey. Witness Baw Mr. Massey. in Auckland a few days afterwards. The Upper House. Mr. Massey said he had received no definite reply from Wilkinson as to the offer of a position in the Upper House, and he asked witness to see Johnson with a view of getting a direct' intimation from Wilkinson one way or the other. At the time . Johnson, a sup« porter of Wilkinson, suggested to Mr. Massey that he fitness) should place another proposal before Johnson that was that if Wilkinson wanted to contest the election witness would undertake to retire 12 months after tho election and leave the field to him. WitneßS wanted a straight-out contest .with an Opposition candidate on account of the attitude he had taken during the previoiis Parliament. . "Witness- had been subjected to adverse comment throughout the Dominion, and he felt certain that his action would receive the confirmation of the electorate. Witness considered it was» moro important to him to receive that endorsement than to continue in, politics. That was ms reason for making the suggestionj

Mr. Russell's criticism." When he made the denial in the House, Mr. Massey was. not referring to the intimation transmitted through Johnson, but to an interjection by Mr. Massev, during a direct attack by Mr. Russoil,' M.P. for Avon. The attack was based on & statement by son to tho "Northern Luminary, pub-' lished at Kawakawa, in which Wilkinson said he had, at Ohaeaneai, receivea an offer from Mr. Massey, and that ho had refused it because he looked on it as a dishonourable bribe. All that was published throughout the Dominion. Mr. Justice Hosking remarked that Wilkinson said lie did not regard Mr. 'Massey's offer as a bribe. Witness said he had said on the platform that he had sent Johnson to. Mangonui to obtain from Wilkinson an intimation as .to whether he would aocept a seat in the Upper House or not. He thought Saunders and the editor of the "Age" were misled as to what he had said. Witness regretted the fact that Wilkinson insisted upon standing, that he !had gone as far as he could' to meet Wilkinson, ana that he had- sent. Johnson tor Wilkinson 'with alternative offers.He had riot used the word "offer," but had used "intimation." He added that he did consider there was anything in tho nature of a bribe in tha appointment of Wilkinson to the Upper added that he did not conseder there waa and he took the entire responsibility of anything he had dons in the matter.

What Happened at Peria,

After the Peria meeting witness, entered a room in JacentWs place, fiveor sis persons being present before .he arrived. Witness stayed at Mangonui that night. He could not recollect having had any private conversation with' Jacentho. There was not the slightest suggestion that Wilkinson should be appointed. Witness did not actually remember seeing Jacentho when he.waft' entering the buggy to drive away. Ha certainly did not acquiesce in any suggestion that Jacentho shbuld go and see Samuels.. There was not the slight, est suggestion to that cfleet. Hid there been such a suggestion that Jacentho was to see Samuels for any reason whatever, he would have stopped him., The feeling was very strong there, and his supporters were thoroughly satisfied that Wilkinson,was : running m conjunction with the Opposition candidate, Dr. Buck. Ho could not account for what Jacentho.said. He might have said something without witness • appreciating its purport. Certainly he was I in no humour, to discuss a problem of that character. It could not have' as Jacentho said, for it was impossible for witness to be back again. He went out of the district and did not come near it again. If Jacentho got that answer it must have been on another subject. . . : Mr. Justice Hoskmg: I suppose you any "yes" as often as you can. (Laughter.) , . , Witness stated that the first time he knew of the affair was when he was told of the petition. He wondered how Jacentho could have seen Wilkinson. Witness had no connection with '\\ilkinson, and had one approach him after Johnson's visit. ' . . Sir John Findlay will cross-examina respondent on when the hear* j-'ing is practically certain to concludo.