LOCAL DEFENCE

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2299, 5 November 1914, Page 6

LOCAL DEFENCE

MAKING OF AMMUNITION

RIVAL NAVAL POLICIES

AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION

WHAT WE OWE AUSTRALIA

An interesting discussion on local defence took place in the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon when the Hon. Jas. Allen moved the second reading of the Defence Amendment Bill. The reason for the Bill, he said, was that the Government's five years' contract with the Colonial Ammunition Company was on tho eve of expiring, and power was sought in the Bill to extend the contract for 15 years. Tho reason for this was that tho quantity of ammunition required to bo manufactured now was considerably larger than when the last contract was entered into. .The supply of raw material, had also become a large order, and it had been represented to him that if the Colonial Ammunition Company were 'to _ supply the quantity of ammunition required the Government must enter into a longer contract with them. Tho company had contemplated the manufacture of metals for ammunition in New Zealand. It was impossible .to ■think of the manufacture of- cordite yet owing to the expense involved. They were manufacturing cordite in Australia, and , he believed it was part of the duty of the Government of New Zealand to assist Australia as far as possible by supporting that enterprise. Nor. did he believe that it would bo\ possible for the State to ■ consider tno establishment- of another ammunition factory in New Zealand owing to the very heavy expenditure involved. Ho did not think such' a ' proposal should bb considered. But he did think we could make better terms for a long term contract with the Colonial Ammunition Company and for this reason the-Bill wo aid prove a good one for New Zealand. The company had been doing its work very well; no fault could be found with the cartridges and other material -eupplied. He was also well pleased with the way in which the company had met the Department. When the war broke out-the Government had to ask them to increase their contract largely, and they had done'so. He had to announce that the reserve stores of ammunition which had to be drawn upon when the troops went away were now being gradually made up. • He had been informed, from Home that there was now not the remotest chance of tho supply of.cordite being stopped.

Tha Term too Long?

Mr. G. W. Russell (Avon) said that the proposed term for a now contract ;seemed to him unnecessarily long ( and ;he would ask'the Minister to giro an undertaking, not to make a. contract for a longer period than t-en years,' possibly terminable by two years' notice. This was necessary {in., view of the faot that it might be necessary very shortly for the State to undertake the manufacture of its own ammunition. Hβ 'would also urge the Government to .keep jn view the possible necessity of establishing a' second factory in. the northern part of the South Island. Mr. E. Newman (Rangitikei) said ho was wholly in accord with the remarkp .of tho member for Avon. One of the greatest dangers threatening the country was from a naval raid, and if there should be a raid by a superior naval force it,was easy to conceive that it, ■might be difficult or impossible to 'have ammunition transported between the two Islands. He thought the Government should consider the advisability of setting up a State,factory,, and it should be at some point out of the reach, of naval guns. 'This was the objection to the- present factory. Mr. J. H. Bradney (Auckland West) said he supported the Bill, as it would encourage local industry. • . Mr. C. A. Wilkinson (Egmont) thought the Government should consider the desirability of establishing not only an ammunition,factory, but a small arms factory. Mr. D. Buick (Palmerston North) said he hoped that no agreement would be entered ■into with the company. He agreed with Mr. Wilkinson .concerning the need for' establishment of a State arms amd ammunition factory. To Repel a Raid. Josoph Ward (Awarua) said that the mam thing to attend, to in a case of the sort was to see that' the State'.s right of was conserved. Mr. Allen: That ie done' ■ Sir J. Ward: I know that is so untier tho original agreement. Mr.'Allen: No, by Act. - ' Joseph Ward said that it appeared to hiin that members -were being ™ m f& aw »y with the idea that we should need huge, supplies of rifles and .ammunition. These,ideas were based upon the supposition that a hundred thousand people might oome'to invade our country. This was. contrary to the teaching of air experts, who. said that all we needed to provide against was a.raid. The company had done good ■work in the past, and he supported the

A n.,? arris (Waitemata) support- ; Mr H G, Ell «2hristehurct South) Baid Parhament should be careful not to enter into agreement for long periodsfchioh might prove to be disadvantageJ -, s - Kckson (Parnell) said it would not pay the company to undertake .the ■_ importation of expensive machinery for a, short term contract. . . . Our Sea Defence. ■ Mr. L. M. leitt (Chrietchurch North) said he thought it would be wisofor the Government to .see that the State was properly protected in the, contract. He would suggest that the Si&teshould give a contract for riot longer than ten .years, with a possible extension for five years. He believed there could be no madder idea than the establishment of a email arms factory. It would pay always much better to import bur rifles. Our first line of defence must be the Navy. While the Navy was supreme all we need provide against was a raid, and if the supremacy of the Navy should fail Now Zealand could no more stand against an attack by a first-class Power than she could fly. ,

Mr. j. G. Coates (Kaipara) said that if there was , one tiling needful in this country it was a small arms factory. Now all tho rifle clubs and the Legion of Frontiersmen were asking for rifles which they could not obtain. Much was made of our naval defence. Aβ a matter cf fact ire wero dependent for our naval defence now upon Australia, at whose navy some had been in the habit of scoffing, and upon a foreign nation, •Japan. Minister in Reply. The Hon. James Allen, in reply, said that he would not enter into.a fifteen years' contract unless it was advisable. The demand for ammunition was increasing every year, and the factory was now working at a high pressure, in order to keep up the resorvo of ammunition. Increased capital would be necessary for the extra -machinery, tho company would have to put in, and it was not fair to'put them to that expense without , siving them some security, by extending tho contract. The question of whether ■.the. present sita in the north wae the host one , or not hod bncm. thrashod out before, mid it was certain that, as the factory yrn*

there, they would Have to use it for many years. The ammunition cculd bo ■ stored ' in. the South Island, and inland. At the eame time ho did not fear much for any raid on the factory. As to the powers of purchase over the factory, they were provided for in the Act, and although the power was not perfect, it was there. A similar power would be in the next contract. The reason why the matter could not bd left over was because the contract would expire heforo Parliament met again. , Small Arms, Regarding the question of email arms, it was true that there had not, been a great change for a number of years. The rifle the British Army was using was practically the- samo as Now Zealand was using, and ho, did not think there would bo any change. ' It was true that the Canadians had adopted a new rifle, the Ross rifle, which they manufactured in their own factory, out he doubted if it was any better fchan the rifio used here. Hβ stated that the Government had doubled the number of rifles in the country in the last two years, and had it not been for.their purchases, it would have been impossible to send away the Expeditionary Force. _ He mentioned the fact :hat the Legion of Frontiersmen were cowing forward and offering their services, and nothing-would please; him more than to say he was able to give every one a rifle, but the Expeditionary l.'"ovce -had taken many. The Territorials had been brought up to full strength, and the Senior Cadets were armed, so it was impossible to give rifles to every one. He appreciated what the Fron- ' tiersmen had done, and also what the National Reserve had done, but the supply of rifles would not,permit him to arm them. Ho a-sked those volunteers to bo patient. He had cabled, to Canada to see if any further rifles, similar to those he had purchased, were available, but had received no reply. Naval Defence.' Speaking on the question of raral defence, he extended warmest thanks to the Australian Squadron. New Zealand to-day was indebted to the Australian Squadron, and the Saraoan Expedition, he ventured,to say, would not have been possible had it not been for the protection of the Australian Squadron. He wished to express publioly tho .deep gratitude New Zealand owed to Australia. / ' Si/ Joseph "Ward asked whether tlio Minister was at liberty to discuss the matter. Jt was not in tho Bill. Mr Speaker said that the number for Christchurch North had raised the question. . • . ■ . - Sir Joseph 'Ward: "Then I will discuss the whole matter on tho Appropriation B'ilL" ' Mr. Allen .said that he was quite within his rights in. expressing thanks to the Australian Squadron. He knew very well where he stood, and was prepared to discuss the question on any public .platform, or anywhere else. . •.. ..'..■' ■ '• ' ; .; The Bill, was read a second time on the voices. , ■ i

Tho Navy Again. On the third reading of the Bill, Sir Joseph Ward (Awarua) traversed the statements of the Minister of ■■■Defence'about the value of the protection':, of the Australian Navy to New Zealand. Hβ (Sir Joseph AVard) did not doubt that .the Australian Navy bad done very good work, but he did not think 'the matter should have been raised now owing to its political aspect. Ho believed that nothing in the nature of a local navy was at all desirable now, but he did not propose to arguo the case at the present. For many reasons it was highly undesirable that he should do so, but fortunately it was possible that the question would have to, bo raised at the elections. . Tho Insltlo History. ■ The, Right. Hon. 'Wi.' ¥. Massey said, he agreed with the Leader of, the Op-" position that the time 'was not opportune to discuss defence matters. The people of i New Zealand did not-know what had been done for, them : by "the Australian Navy, in the past ( few months. He was sorry he was not at liberty to disclose what had taken place, but if the people of Now' Zealand knewthe inner history of the last few months thoy would thank God every day of their lives that thero has been at this crisis an Australian Navy. Hβ could not go into details either now or in the next few months. But he knew that if it had not been for the Australian Navy we should have had our 'fortified towns attacked and .our commerce destroyed. ■ : .':.'.■.■ Sir Joseph^Ward: That doesn't 'say much for tho power of-the-.Admiralty and their foresight. . Mr. Massey:,l am not going to. discuss that. But the fact remains that nre have, had two of the niost powerful cruisers in the German'Navy''at one time within three days' steam of New Zealand. He added that at some suitable opportunity the New Zealand Parliament must pass ■ a resolution thanking the people of Australia for the protection afforded to New Zealand by'the Australian' Navy. '• . : i 1 .Mr. Davey: If the Imperial Government had carried out their 1909, agreement, wo would have been all right? Mr. Maesey: I admit that. And this Government offered tho Admiralty an j additional £50,000 to carry it , out. He' sincerely hoped that no attempt would be made to make party capital out of the Navy,question. ' •. ".■.•■.'. Australians Disappointed. , The Hon. J. Allen said that he knew tfhe Australians had been, bitterly • disappointed in their ideals because of the necessity imposed upon the Navy' of doing-work for which it wae.not originally intended. That story would be told some day. He had ;in his possession several expressions of serious disappointments on the part of Australians because their Navy was doing work' which the Imperial Navy should havo done. There could bo no doubt that we should not have had the defence we had had but'for tho existence of the Auetralian\Navy. Unquestionably what had been taking place in the last few months had opened l-iihe eyes of everybody. He had always held the opinion that wo should hold out the hand <-'f friendship to our brothers across the Tasman Sea. He was sure wo Should work in with Australia, not with tho idea of establishing a local navy, but a branch of the Imperial Navy to defend our seas. ; The Bill was read a third time. •