SCENE IN THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2262, 23 September 1914, Page 7

SCENE IN THE HOUSE

PARTY FIGHTING A TOUCHY OPPOSITION MEMBER AND HIS LOYALTY \ A FARCICAL POSITION s I What was described by the Prime Minister as "a most extraordinary position arose in the House/of Representatives last evening when the War Riske Insurance .Bill was bofore the House. The Hon. A., L. Herdman moved the second reading of the Bill, tho nature of which he briefly explained on the occasion of the first reading of tho measure. In further explanation yesterday the Minister said that immediately after the outbreak of war the New Zealand Government had received a cablegram from tho Colonial Office, intimating that a war risks office had beon established in London' to cover cargo going from the colonies to the Old Country, and from Great Britain to other parts .of the world. , The War Eisks Association was founded as an imperial concern, and should be sup-, ported as such. Particulars of cablegrams received from, .the British Government had been made public, and the mercantile community should have been aware that if they wanted insurance it was available. It would be seen that through the.existence of this office, premiums had Been reduced to a minimum. Insurance could be effected from here if people liked to take the trouble to do it through their bankers'in London. ' The British Government were in : the best possible position to effect cheap . iterance, because they got information from .the Admiralty as to the of enemy ships of war,- and consequently could direct the course of merchant snips. When the Bill got into Committee the Government ■ was prepared to increase the amount fof risks it would cover from £5000 ;to -£10,000. •.''. ■■'■■■.

"Party Again." After several Opposition members had spoken on' the Bill, Mri G. W; Russell '(Avonj rose, and informed the House that the-' measure showjed the utter incompetency of the Government to deal with any large question. A Government member: Party again 1 Mr. Russell: It is a matter of amusement to me that a Bill of this kind should be handed over to the AttorneyGeneral to pilot 1 through. the House. What business experience has he had? The Hon. A. L. Herdman: I have ,had ae much as you have had. Mr. Russell: I am not piloting the Bill. • A.member: You would like to be. (Laughter.) Proceeding, Mr. Russell criticised the Bill at length, and ooncluded by calling the proposals. "petti-fogging" and "an exhibition of folly and incompetence." Immediately Mr.-Russell resumed his seat, .the Hon. 'A. L,, Herdman rose and delivered a stinging speech, under whioh.the member for Avon obviously smarted. Mr. Herdman said' that Mr. Russell's speech, was one of the most extraordinary speeches this Parliament had listened to during the session;} For bitterness it was unequalled; for'irrelevancy unsurpassed. It was a bitter, malignant, malevolent party speech, and ; it was quite* , •evident;that - "invllie^innermost recesses 6f' 7 ''M r '~noheufable gentleman's heart he would sooner see the Germans over-run Europe than the Government continue to' occupy- the Treasury Benches."' ! . .'■'"•" Mr. Russell interrupted the Minister by asking the protection of tie Speaker against an attack on his loyalty. Ho asked, also, for tho withdrawal of the word?. . •.'•-. Mrl Speaker said that it was entirely wrong for any member to impute a mo-tive-to any other member, and,that he was. sorry to say that members "sometimes expressed their opinions of others very, freely. He did not rule the words out of order. ' Mr. Ru3sell: I move that the words be taken down. ■■■'•' ' ■ ' The motion was put to a puzzled-and excited House before members bad any clear idea of what was toward, and only one voice was raised in a. loud "Aye:" The motion .was declared'carried on the voices;

Most Extraordinary Position. The Right Hon. W. F. Massey (Prime Minitser), who had just entered the '■ Chamber, said that he had not heard what had, been going on. He asked whether the words complained of had been ruled out of order. Mr. Speaker: I B aid that I had heard equally offensive words used in the House on previous occasions. The member for Avon moved that the words be taken down, and I had no choice but to put the motion, and the House decided that the words should be taken down, i * , ■ i The Prime Minister (in a .tone of surprise) : And the House decided that the words be taken downl Mr. Speaker: Yes, and.it is usual for the Leader,of the House to say what the position is. The Prime Minister: It is the most extraordinary position that I have over experienced. Certain words were used by my colleague, and they were taken down, although they were not ruled' out cf order. What is the position P Mr. R. M'Callum (Wairau): You must move in the matter. The Prime Minister: There is only one course for me to adopt. A great deal depends upon the context of the words—whether they were used in ail t offensive way or not. There has been a, certain amount of electricity in the air during the past few days. There is only one course for mo to adopt, and that is to move that no further action be taken. Mr. M'Callum: I thought that you would do that.

Mr. Russell is Indignant. . Mr. Russell said that it was an extraordinary thing that the Prime Minister, after being absent from the House, should come in and regard the whole thing as a joke. "I do not think it is a joke/' My. Russell continued, "and I am not going to allow it to bo treated as a joke. I say that tho statement of the Minister of Justice is a blackguardly one to make." Cries of "Orderl Order!" Mt. Speaker: That is an improper remark, and I mist ask tha 6 it be withdrawn. . Mr. Russell: Well, sir, I withdraw it,' on your.direction, but I must say that, nt a time like the present,'for one member to speak of another'in the way in which I have been spoken of is an outrage' upon the forms of the House, and an insult to myself and my constituents. • The honourable' member ■would not repeat the' words outside the House. I questioned the honourable gentleman's ability, but I did not question his loyalty or his patriotism; yet he hurls _against me this imputation, which will st'nrid against mo and my children' and constituents for all time in tho pages of Hansard. The Prime Minister: It was only a figure of speech. Mr. Russell • It is' the fmillost statement made in regard to a member of this Hnv.se, and yet after the House has ordered the words to be taken down the .Prime Minister comes in with- a' smile and a.grin on hisfaco —rMγ. Massey: I object to this-:—. .Mr. Speaker: I must ask honourable members not to say anything for which

they may be sorry afterwards, and not to do anything to degrade Parliament. Mr. Russell said that he was dealing witli what ho claimed to bo the incompetence of the Governnicut. Hβ added: "There is nothing half-hearted about mo. When I etriko and hit the bull'seyo thoro is a. scream froiiuthose who have beea struck. If the- honourable gontleman will withdraw the words, I am prepared to sit down. I demand that tlio House assert its dignity, and repel thie foul aspersion instead of allowing it to remain, on the pages of Hansard, not apologised for, and not withdrawn. J will not aJlow any man to question' my loyalty. If occasion arose, 1 would be prepared, old as I am, to.shouldor my gun for tho purpose of taking part in the defence of my country;" Mr. Russell declared that the Prime Minister's duty was to urge his colleague to withdraw tho words and maintain the dignity of tho House. Ho would demand that the House should protect him from a foul aspersion of this nature upon his loyalty.

, Truce or Humbug? «<-Mr. A. M. Myers referred to the affair as a regrettable incident, and he was sorry the words had been used by the Minister of Justice^ Mr. Maasey: Was there .any provocation?' . - Mr. Herdman: Of course there was. .Mr. Myers: Can.there be justification for an accusation of the kind at a time like this, when there> is a. loyal truce . . ■ Mr. Wilson: Truce! -Humbug. There were also other cries of dissent and disgast.Mr. Myers insisted, however, that there was a truce, and that it -was being .faithfully observed by the Opposition. Mr. Massey as peacemaker. ■ At 7.30 p.m. the Prime Minister made a proposal which eventually ended the incident. . ■ Mr. Massey'said that v he had not been in the. House when the words to which the member for Avon took exception were uttered, and when ho entered tho Chamber be wafc informed that the House had agreed to a motion by the aggrieved membor that the words be taken d'otni. The words-, had. not been Iruled out of orderly Mr. Speaker, and the Minister of Justice was given no opportunity of withdrawing the words. ■In his (Mr. Masseyis) opinion the words were not intended to be taken seriously. No one would think of taking them seriously. He recalled an occasion when he was in Opposition when it was said that ho would sell his immortal soul for office. Of course ho' had never dreamt of taking this statement seriously. He had been'informed that the member for Avon had made a highly; provocative speech, and that the Minister of Justice had replied in an irritated fashion. From all that he had heard he was inclined to think that both members were to blame. Mr. Herdman: That is wrong. Mr. Massey: That is all very well. I have been irritated myself, and I have said things I have been sorry for afterwards. , Mr. Herdman: I am not to blame.

Mr. Massey: I am going to suggest that both members express regret for what has taken place, and ■ biiry the hatchet. We are now on the eve of one of the most important events that has occurred in the history, of the Dominion . . j ■.'■ and* I that this is not a time for anything in the way of bickering if. it can be avoided. That is my suggestion, and I give it in very good faith. „ Sir Joseph Ward (Awarua) counselled withdrawal of the words. ! He said that

he had been .engaged in party politics a considerable time, and that he very rarely losb his temper. (Loud laughter.) "And," he continued, "I never make strong statements." (R-enewed laughter.) Hβ had seldom beens-;asked>'to withdraw words, and" had "always, done so when requested. The best thing to do, he went on, .was to withdraw and wip'e the whole thing out. -If one made a statement which hurt anyone else it was best to do the right thing—an action the worth of which would be seen' later on. ■ ;

Merely Ah Exaggeration. . Mr. Speaker said.that the position was. .that he happened to be engaged \iith\some other business when the Words were used; and that.he did not hear. them. , They .were repeated to him, and he certainly did not place upon them the construction which the member for Avon did, but looked upon them as a figure of speech, an exaggeration, . and he did not take them seriously, nor did he think that the House book them seriously. . However, the member for Avon had moved that the iwords should be taken down, and the Speaker had no option but to put the question, whereupon the words were taken down. The position was very much regretted by all members of tie House, and it would be a good thing if the matter could be ended here. An opportunity should be given to withdraw, the words.

Withdrawal. The Hon.. A. L. Herdman said that he would withdraw the words complainbd of. (Hear, hear.) At the same time ho wished ~it to be_ clearly understood that the speech delivered by the member for .Avon was of a provoking character. "Frankly," added Mr. Herdman, "ladmit that I spoke with a considerable amount of heat, but I quite lecognise after What the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition, and you yourself, Sir, have 6aid that it is nigh time this unpleasantness came to an end, and I withdraw the words that II used.' , ' Mr. Russell ; said that ho cheerfully and unreservedly accepted the withdrawal. He admitted that he had made a' speech that was intended to be a vigorous speech from the Opposition point of view regarding the Bill, but he had mado no reflection of a personal nature regarding the Minister. An hon. member: You did on. his ability. . Mr. Russell: I,reflected on his ability, not on his loyalty,, or his character. Ho may refer to my ability, or even to my honesty of purpose, becaiise these aro matters the country can judge of, but I object to his casting a reflection oil my loyalty and patriotism. I congratulate him upon the honourable and manly way that no has withdrawn tho words. The House then agreed that' leave should be given 'to withdraw the words, and it was resolved that no further action should be taken. This closed tho incident, and sober discussion on the Bill was resumed. ■ '

The BUI Again. The Hon. A. L. Herdman, in reply, said that there seemed .to be some misapprehension about what the Government had done. An effort had been made to enable the New Zealand Government to take risks here on behalf of the British Government Insurance scheme, but that had been found to bo impossible. The British Government would not even allow agents to operate on their behalf oven in Glasgow and Liverpool. It was doubtless true that private insurance companies were charging more than £2 2s. per cent;, but it .iras a comparatively easy matter for any shipper to arrange te have cargoes insured in the.British War Risks Insiirnnce Office. Tho Bill was committed forthwith, reported without, amendments, read a third time, and passed.