BIBLE-IN-SCHOOLS

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2212, 27 July 1914, Page 6

BIBLE-IN-SCHOOLS

<■'. ; ■' ... .■"-;: ". ■•'■■.■ | i V |§TH| v p -'V i;!:.;;.-;-.'.; ; .;.^''hon;:.jAsl,;ali^n^-; : ;::^ £■■ :< - THE LEAGUE • i;:-r-V^.;..- ; - ; .- :: ' :.'- : --r- : >-y; j. :, -4,bpu.t',four hundred, members of the. i;,.-;, Bible-in-State-Sc'hbols League.; assem-I'r.v.-bled'as a deputation on Saturday after- [ noon and interviewed the Hon: Jas. Ali -.leu, who is in charge of the Religious \" ■ 'Instruction in Schools Referendum Bill, S, : ; which; is;now before Parliament. The [,:' : ! placp of meeting was the portico of the !'. }oid parliamentary (Buildings; Tho depu- |- J j jtation. was thoroughly:representative of >' , 'jthe lay: arid, clerical; membership of tho i:. ,;Leaguo;and included a number of edu- |; , j.catib'naiists. Marked enthusiasm ~was f'..'j displayed' throughout, tho .proceedings; ;:.:..i"the. arguments advanced by the.s'pokes- ;.-.,''• men or. the deputation in favour',of.-.tho i ■'■'-••.; lvefoTehdura Bill were heartily applaudr Ved and similar demonstrations greeted i-'-' '•• Mr. --Allen's, frank-statement of his posi- [,;.: tion in regard to that.measure. "-. '; F,';-■;; : £"- - Tho League's Demand. ■. [-. '.'"• : ' ThV r first' speaker-was Canon.Garland t- ',-"■'. (League organiser) who thanked';. the '' .' Minister-, i'biv.hi'i, courtesy'iii receiving ;.-.-;. tho. deputation, and 'said that he wished j:' j - toassuro Jiimin the name, of the Bible-in-khj was a body |. - representing the churches that stood for j ■; .a vast, majority of the, population;of j': . thisicountry,. tnat it very much appreL.'ciated'his action in taking oharge of I and introducing-a; Bill which would al- ;■ ■ .low. theVpeoplp. to.come to a ;; decision i ' upon the matter-iwhich-they 'had 'so" !;'■ heart. ; (Hear,.' hear.) -They; [■~- ? : \vislied\jto 'associato;with'"this .expre'sv'■■:. ■■ tion' : bf ■:gratitude; those'-,'of ;Mr. Allen's [". who were.giving him facilij; .'':.'''ties..Vfor:;'.. bringing'-tlie Rill'.beforq.'the I ;-■: House and- those irierabe'rs : of -'Parlia- [: ; jnent; whom- vthey. : undofstoo'd ; ; were' preI: 'yared.-to'-.trust;-the'people'as well as! \ - ' >ieck:their- suffrages. (Hear,,hear.) The. j;' ' league had ;a :membership 0f.;153,,000, - Iwhich 'was-.steadilyi.inpreasmg; and its [. V. jgratitude'would be practically .express-' L ■■'■.'.- ed.:„ The League-was 'making only, one {'.:■'. :J'equ'est'.' v Tliey'were -not'Vskirig for the; f: Bible-in-Schqols' or., fbr'miriisters r .. visits [';'.' —they were' not even-asking I 'for any b •'.- [alteration in the educational system—. f -1 they, were only asking that' the people f- : Ishouid.'ipe'. allowed to decide ' whether f:.v.: I \ : nvhicii' a 'majority" of churches; 'had ',' "iagreed. (Hear, hear,,),' And they meant |; 'to press;;tjieir vßill;;until'in some form ' 'or .'had-been-decided by that (.-: ■ .which h.ej,.for one,' .recognised i' was! superiorVto.arl'yVother -tribunal in 1 . 'niiy Englis.h T speakiiig: part', of the Bri-. !'■■; fish peoplo and the peoplo f 'alone. (Hear," hear.) Ho, claimed that t ' their* .stibject.was, as"; .fitting for 'direct. j. : Reference to the pegple,..as other sub-' I'."■ jects wliichjwer.o.- b'roAignt'-'jbeforo-Tt'hem'. ! : {in this tho [.;:.' of I'.-'-' ''■'Jnunicipal• loans- ■ The-latter sometimes, ['','[. involved,matters'-of:'conscience, as when i "ii loan was'Cpronbsed to open a muni- [■', ".cipaLtlieat';;eV:, : Some.peopleobjected-to-ri /.'"Jthdatres, on religious in j ■: \ he-'>ovent". of • > Tefereudum llbeine;" ; car-i.' r '.riedi"ithey;had.;to;;cqn'tribute.to..tbat of p'\ which they-"disapproved. that p.' -already-'Kero' ik v New Zealand the'prini., ciple had been recognised of referrihst | v Riichia-question as theirs tbtho people : .'". Tliey" weTei not ..burdening. .Parliament! ■:... of deciding upon'- • •-.;.rtheir propbsal-^fhey. only aeked Parlia-...ment.to-allow the. people to decide—and [\. if "members of, Parliament were being t;' : forpe.d;.intp,'.ti)e'position that they .were f. themselves-becoming fudges as to-wlie-I therbr^not-this improvement' should be I ';.> ma;de':in';the 7 '; Dominion :system, "then .ho }: •''■:' vent ; dred';to,say" that it -was-not they ];'.'■ of the' League, who were: responsible to I; these members'of. Parliament, but their I, opponents who_ wero. forcing 'members j s . of Parliament into that position. Tho I;■■-"' fLea'gu'e aaked Parliament to do nothing- ! rjnofe thai-let" the people decide." (Hear, '■': jnear.).'...^,..'',-,.'....:..;'. ~.;;.;. ', ,;."'■. ■ | - ! "We"claim," continued Canon" Gar- ; , fland, "that we are Imperialists in edu- ! .'.(Cation —(hearj- we-say" with | , j-regrot that whilo New Zealand leads the j ..hverjd" in so many things, while her j-- iname is known'and honoured through- [/ jout-the-Empire;-for-leading the world !.'■■"'. jin-' many things,'there is {one particular j. .Inspect of her affairs in which she is • jitotally at variance, with' the rest, ofj ,' -ftho English-speaking nations of the Emt:,. J'ire— I mean, on this 'question of.ire- 1 I. instruction in State schools. I. [,' iclnim; therefore, :th(it we.aie Imperi . lalists.'in -this our. earnest ;■ ; j ( and urgent desire is to bring NewZeaI dand into_ lino with the rest of the Brij: Ttis'h Empire in this as she is in «o many, |:. inther:matters. (Hear, hear and ap- ;■' jilanse.)", <-The question which -they ! (wished to bo submitted to' the l people !>' -(clearly concerned^the of a 1 ' [majority . as-.; represented by."' their 1} ' r churches and adoptpd ejsewhere, it had j - Wirought such'a .degree of-political peace j , tthat thero had never been any serious t, /lattempt in. Parliament to destroy it. i. ' ■ -' •'.'.- The Road to Peace. '] "I point out,,sir, to : you : , as; a politi- ' *ian," said Canon Garland,--"the con-' i jtrast. between the state .of "affairs iii States'where this system I political peace and never a Bill introf dncodto Parliament—with tho state of ; nffairs hero in New 1 Zealand where the . - rhurches have been continually agitat- ; ' ing during 37 years and where Parljarment has been disturbed no fewpr than I '«;evcn times by attempts to- bring in ffiills dealing with this problem. I say {then that we need.only bring New Zea-. i (land info' line with the rest of the Em- " !pire_to .bring New Zealand the same i [political-peace'which exists elsewhere on j. rfjjis subject." (Hear, hear.). The ! ..[League,-Qanon Garland went on to, .; jEtate,. had fbeen accused of promotine' isncterian 'strife', but had such a state. ' ; iof affairs ever before'been seen in New ;'..' tho forces of the churches ! ;combinerl, standing on a common plat-- '-.' form, shoulder to shoulder) hot. mini- ;_ misino;"their differences," but recognis--1 'f>w.< that their differences were,, as.no■tliin«i compared with the welfare of the children : for which they had combined. (Applause and bear, hear.)' Ho was - . sure that the-Minister must be con- : ! vinced that there had never been such ; an exhibition, of brotherly, love on the part of/the ehp.rches.a'nd three-ouarters of the' people of the Dominion who were combined in this movement. Tf he mi»ht Sndeo bv what had -happened olsewhere ie -Would say thi>t it would lie found :,-.-■ that wli.fltovr strife:there mieht be be- :• tween' the .LeaKtin and its (opponents, ■'] there would be the same experience ;', ,hero as "elsewhere—when once the svs- . te.m had been adopted :,by the neonle i n.nd established .all., strife on the subject ended and .'it became and was oci Vjepted.as.T'-finhl settlement of tlie nrob'lem, liinkingi-tho -national system so sei, cure.and so firm that no assaults from :' '■ ■ those who were-opposed to the national «svstem could ever shake it or destroy it. ;■ (Applause and hear, hear.) introdi'ced Miss ;' M'Lpaii of_ the Wellington ! '■:■■'.'.' Gi>V College) remarking tliat she-was ! well known~and honoured in this comj mtmity-as an.edi'catioifist.and one whohod exercised and exercised-st'U an un- |. told influence for good over tho vojinu i 'fWomanhqod.of this,country.-(-Applause.) ,: Subject.i ;'-"'"■• . Miss Mac Lean, Principal of the Girls' '■ rHi.trh School, taid that she .would saeak

.as one acquainted with the work of the secondary schools, and with the results to some extent of the working of the_ primary, schools. Education was a subject, she said,'which bored the average New Zealander, but there was ono part of it which did not boroany parent, and that was the -subject of Biblo teaching. -When parents were consulted about the course of instruction to be given to their girls in the secondary school theyworo fairly indifferent about other subjects, preferring to leavo tho choice to the liead, but they all took a keen interest in Bible teaching, and said they would bo glad-to haye their children take that; subject.. Slio had been particularly struck with the keenness of New Zealand parents in wishing their •children to havo Biblo teaching in tho secondary schools Her experience had been that of 1500 children coming to her school in fourteen years," less than a hundred had- availed themselves of the conscience clause to avoid taking tho subject. All the teachers'in the secondary schools where Bible reading was in the course took tho subject without raising any question or any difficulty. In all tho years of her experience not ono parent had over Complained of sectarian teaching, and not one child' had ever been withdrawn from the classes after having once been in.thein. She did not think it was fair or sensible to deny religious teaching to all, simply because a small number did not wish to take it. And yet this was the primary school solution, because a small number do not want it, the rest are not to have it. ' It ■ was unfair to allow in tho secondary schools what was not allowed in the primary 'schools. Secondary schools were a. part of the national system of education, and it would destroy- -the national system of education if religious instruction were; withdrawn from the secondary Denominational schools would l be opened all over the country. And she believed the national system was being imperilled by. the delay in establishing religious.instruction in the primary schools. When girls came to the secondary schools''from the 'primary schools they had to bo taught the very A B ,Q of the subject. At present the best branch of the Humanities was being excluded'from the schools. The'ignorance; of ■ Scripture knowledge now adnys was deplorable,'and' thousands of children would never' know the Bible stories unless thsv were taught them 'in the schools. -. "They were not being taught -these stories in their homes. This she knew as'afac-;. .. ...'■',, ':'/"■:,_... ■ On Certain Fallacies. Miss'MacLean spoke of- the.incompleteness of a system of education which did not seek to train the will, producing mere cleverness without goodness. Apart from the value; of religious 'teaching in training, the will, -it was desirable to introduce the Bible into the. schools on the lower., ground that as'literature it had been of incalculable benefit in the formation of.our'.speechi''.The.English schools put:it first" and Zealand! put it/last or nowhere. She contended, thati'ithe:.question ...-of whether the Bible.flight to ' .be introduced into the schools' was one ■ .on; which every individual was just Vasucapable of expressing an opinion as the most astute politician. Further, she'.argue'd that'itw as wholly a fallacy to separate religion and politics. It was an utterly .unstable idea 'that -the' State had nothing.to do with religion.,';-,lt^;.was-'-another, fallacy to separate ..religion from' education, the' ■aim :and-object-of which.should be to "unito /secular;; .'and spiritual '.. things. Their Roman-Catholic opponents claimed this, but'they unfortunately added: "We must have it, but yau -shall not, if we can prevent it." Finally, she appealed to.Mr. Allen that he should use all in his-'power to prevent the Bill how before "the House, from being delayed oSiobstruoted, and > to.press, for.its consideration by the Legislature "this session. . ' : '-..■'■ '■.'■'..'- The New South' Wales System, 'The Rev, J. '.Patterson," of Christ-. chiircV was introduced, by Canon Garland as'one of tho -products of the New South Wales'-system, and'also as one who' had'taught'in the schools under it.. "It is very difficult," ;said.Mr. Patterson, "for a New' South to iraagino 'that there can be any serious opposition to- what we regard as tho wisest and inost obvious settlement of the question of religious education in the State schools.' When I,read this morning some two columns sof matter in, the newspaper on this subject,. I could not help.thinking that I was,reading what was'purely a piece of imaginative literature, and I was amazed to find that it was; evidence, given before a more or less legal body for the-purpose of guiding Parliament."' He had, he continued, been educated in the State schools of New South Wales, and for twelve years he had been'.a.teacher, as j -a. minister under their State schopl sys-1 tem. For the last three years he had been taking a number of classes every week in one of the largest State schools in New South Wales, the Cleveland Street District High School. There bad never been the slightest opposition to the system of religious, teaching in New South Wales. -Tho proof of this was that when the whole system was remodelled a few years ago providing for the. establishment of'- district high schools, and.apparently by an oversight no provision was made ior visits of ministers and religious instruction, the headmaster :pf, the Cleveland Street High' School, who was a .Roman Catho,He,'automatically provided-for these classes. '■' Later,, full facilities were given by the Legislature for-religious instruction in-,these schools. "-•-.. ' No Sectarian. Strife,: "In the three great high' in Sydney," he said, "I know; the headmasters and boys' welcome'tho coming of. the ministers. May I say that as a boy. at school I.was given instruction both by Protestant and Roman Catho--lic teachers, and never know the difference. In the school in which I was brought up the. headmaster and the first assistant were Roman Catholics. I was taught by both of them, and they explained the Scriptures, to us. teaching the obvious moral lessons of tho tiassages." Mr. Patterson scoffed at the idea of, sectarian trouble and strife in the schools because'of the relieious lessons given. lii Now South AVales it _neyor happened. It was pure imagination to. say that it did. He had known hundreds of teachers,' and ho had never .known one who objected to giving religious instruction. He had visited hundreds of schools in the country, in Sydney, and in Broken 1 Hill, and ho had never met a master, Catholic or Protestant, who bad objected to his going into the school, or who had «ver done anything but givo him the fullest opportunity for going in. , The only complaint he had ever heard was that ministers did not come often enough. On occasions.when he bad dropped in at country schools'he had always been invited to address the children, and give them instruction. Tho ministers of every denomination in Now South Wales were looked, upon as the friend and coadjutor of tho State school teacher. In both Broken Hill and Svdney ministers' w>'o practically tho overseers of the public examinations : held in connection with the schools, "and had in many ways assisted the teachers in their work.- In two of-the schools of which he had close knowledge, the headmasters' were Roman Catholics. It was not' true that any atto'mptfwas ever made at proselytising, and no iiarents asked to have their, children; excused from religious instruction,'and so' far from the system leading to sectarian bitterness it had been the.means of drawing the.clergy of'the different churches tegother. They met at the,schools, and they learned to know one..another. In most districts thoro were ministers' associations, and tho main link in binding the -.ministers together in-these'associations was the work,they.did in the State schools. In practice in most of the schools in New .Wales the clergy did not go in

and simply every one take the children of his own denomination. They graded the, school, and ono clergyman took ono grado and one another grade and so on. Not was it a fact that tho visits of ministers had interfered detrimentally in tho ordinary work of tho schools "I wish to say)" he said, "that it is an absolute untruth to ' say that the portions of tho Scripture chosen for reading in tho schools in New South Wales were picked in order to injure a certain church." In order that there might bo no such feeling experienced the Government had, ho said, adopted the Irish National School-book, which had the definite imprimatur, of the Roman Catholic hierarchy of Ireland, and on tho titlo page of the book was a big cross with the words "Nihil Obstat." Salvation Army's Plea, The next speaker was Col. Powley, of the Salvation Army. He said that his organisation agreed with tho mass of earnest men ana women up and down this land who felt keenly that the Biblo should be admitted to tne schools. The Salvation Army was'a church militant which tried to make good people. In the process of making good people it made good citizens, and it felt tiiat it had a right to expect the jstate to assist it by providing a groundwork of religious .knowledgo upon which it could build. Many people round about know nothing about tho Bible. He had heard of an eighteen-year-old girl in a Salvation Army Home who did not know who Christ was, and was surprised to hear His namo spoken by good people and in other.than a profane sense. There was a splendid system- of education here, but the State should take the same trouble to see that children were taught Scriptural history as it .did to see that they were taught ordinary or profane history. MR. ALLEN'S REPLY.AN ASSURANCE OF SUPPORT? ■ The Minister'then replied.' '-'It needs very tew words from me," he said. "You are,aware that a:Bill dealing with this question; of the referendum is now before the House of Representatives'. You are also aware that there are petitions against this Bill before the Education Committee. These petitioners must be heard—(hear, hear)—and Parliament is willing to hear them,.and lam willing to hear.tbeni. 1 do not suppose that whatever may be said in that Committee will make me change my mind. My mind upon this question has been made up, for many years—(hear, hear)—l have been convinced that the safety of our great educational system rests upon provision being made .to' satisfy the conscience of a great majority of the people. '. 1 am entirely in favour of a secular system, .but 1 do not, believe - that the secular system caii be maintained without making provision to satisfy that conscience. The Bill has been brought iii by me, may I say as a private member—l am a private member and at the same timo a .member, of the Government. ' All my colleagues are not agreed about this measure. Cabinet has gone this .far: "it has' permitted this ; Bill to be brought in, and it will .'give me facilities to have the question decided at this session of Parliament. It will be for members of.Parliament to say whether this Bill shall becomo law. or whether it shall not, and'it is for'public opinion, so far as it can,'to influence the minds of members of Parliament. f There will be'difficulties in getting tho Bill through, and all that I can say is that I will do my best to overcome these difficulties and allow Parliament ■to como to a conclusion. (Applause.) I mostearnestly hope that Parliament.will decide to pass the Bill. May I again ball attention to a fact that has already been emphasised by Canon. Garland—tho. Bill is not a Bill which gives. to the "people the.right to. introduce the Bible or to give religious teaching—it is a Bill which asks, the people whether they want a system Mich as I have just alluded to introduced into our publio schools. There is another step to take 'if this Bill is agreed to before you can get what you want. There has been a great deal of misrepresentation with respect to the Bill. I hope that tho misrepresentation will be removed, and that evorybody will understand that this is merely a reference to tho peoplo of a matter Which, every individual is as capable of deciding as the most as-, tute member of Parliament. I have nothing more to say except to givo an as.surance that so far as it is in my power 'to put this Bill on tho Statute Book I shall spare no effort to put it there. (Applause and cheers.) Canon Garland thanked the Minister, and,.was himself ohecred before tho deputation, dispersed. ' TO-NIGHT'S DEMONSTRATION ' GREAT LEAGUE RALLY. The' gathering announced to take place in the Town Hall, to-night in support of the Bible-in-Schols League's request for the referendum promises to present interesting features. Three of tho speakers will have travelled long distances in order to testify their, interest and support. Mrs. Harrison Leo Cowio, world's missionary of .''the W.C.T.U., and so well kuown as a leading Temperance advocate, arrives .this afternoon from ' Auckland, and leaves again for the north at-,9 o'clock, this evening. She is engaged on a teniperance campaign' in tho north by the W.C.T.U., which has modified its arrangements, to enable her to speak on tho Bible-iii-schools platform to-night. Mr. L. F. do Berry, M.A., comes all the way from Hokitika, where he is rector of 'the District High School. He is a member of the Teachers' Institute, and 'will speak from that point of view. The Rev. John Paterson has been only a fortnight in charge of St. Paul's Presbyterian Church, Christchurch, but his congregation has shown its support of the movement by depriving themselves of his ministry on one of its first Sundays to. allow him to give his testi-' mony. Mr., Paterson was a pupil-who received his education ,in the primary schools' of New South' Wales, and subsequently .was a religious instructor. APPRECIATION. ' Resolutions expressing appreciation of the action of the Government in intror ducins: the Referendum Bill, and urging the member for the district to support the. Bill; as introduced, have been passed by. the congregation of St. Aup;ustine!s, Napier; the congregation of the Methodist Church, Waiuku; the Waimate Branch of tho C.E.M.S.; the Lyttelton Mothers' Union; the Lower Riccarton Branch of the Mothers' Union; the ' Clevedon Women's Branch of the Biblo-in-Schools' Leaguo; a meeting of mothers held in St. Saviour's Schoolroom, Sydenham; the Aratapu and Kohu.Eohu branches of the Bible-in-Schools; the Clevedon and Hamilton East branches of tho Women's Leaguo; the Aratapu Mothers' Union; To Aroha Church of England Men's Society; Cambridge Branch of the W.C.T.U.; the congregations of the Hamilton and Grey- Lynn Presbyterian Churches, and the Presbyterian AVoraeu's Missionary Union, Papatoetoe.