LOBBY GOSSIP

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2208, 22 July 1914, Page 7

LOBBY GOSSIP

AND POINTS FROM DEBATES DAILY SUMMARY :■ _ Two important Bills, very- different in character, commanded attention in Parliament yesterday. v ln the TJppi.r House tho Hon. H. D. Bell .moved the 6econd reading of tho Legislative Council Reform Bill. Doing so, lie made an impressive speech,, in the course, of which lie 'strongly emphasise^-tho value of a powerful Second Chamber, and also reviewed at some length tho lino of notion pursued by. the Government in promoting tho reform which is now within reasonable distance of being accomplished. The debate was continued by the Hon. S. T. George, who opposed tho Bill, and afterwards tlio' Council adjourned. The event of t'ke day in the Lower House was the second reading debate upon tho Licensing Bill, but it did not open until tho evening. In tho afternoon a good deal of timo was ,spent in a party debate upon loan-Taising which nroso upon the. presentation of a return, ,asked for by Sir Joseph Ward, showing tho loans raised otherwise than by public flotation, since-..tho present Government took office. \. Tho presentation of the -report of the Gum Commission paved' tho jvay for . 6omo lengthy speeches by npnthern members. : ■' ' When tho House resumed at 7.30 p.m. tho Banking Act Amendment Bill was introduoad by Governor's Message tiiii read a first time. ; _ Imim-.diatelv afterwards the Prime Minister: moved the'second reading of tho: Licensing Bill. .The '.galleries were full, and there waf, a stir of interest as Mr. Massey began his speech. He asked that the question, as was cust'jrr.ary, should be dealt with ' in nonparty lines and besides intimating that his own' position was set forth in the Bill with its proposal to. reduce the effective majority in the . case of national prohibition to 65 per cent., dealt with various detail aspects of the liquor question. , In the debate which followed some very diverso- viows- were expressed. Sir Joseph Ward stated that lib would support the Bill, but blamed the Primo Minister for not bringing it down as a Government measure. Interjectors and the Hon. W. Fraser, who was. the next speaker,' pointed' out that Sir Joseph Ward himself had down a Gaming Amendment Bill which was opposed by a number of his colleagues. 'Mr. .Fraser declared for', the 60 per cent:' majority. ■,Miy''Wilford . stated that lie would • vote .against tlio Bill though' lio' was prepared'to ,'yote for the reduction of the national, prohibition majority to 55, per cent, provided the local option issue were abolished. Dr. A. K. Newman stated that he and. others who supported' the Bill lia&. decided' that they would best advance, its prospects by maintaining, silence. Tlio Hon. A. L. Herdman- declared himself opposed to tho .Bill and a supporter of tho three-fifths'majority . He indicated his belief that it would ultimately be necessary to set up a Board of Commissioners Jo' control ' the liquor trade and' also to deal; by legislation with the tied-house problem: Mr. H. 'Atmoro (Nelson) stated that he opposed reduction of tho, present majority. Mr. J. V. Brown spoke in defence of the tied-house system, and urged! that the prosent majority should be retained. Tho Hon. A. T. 'Ngata supported tho Bill as an instalment of reform, and spoke in. simple', but forcible-;terms, of the evils. that liquoivhadj wrought.jipon tho members .of ,liis raco. 'Sir. A. E. Glover said he would support the threefifths <' majority.; One Social, Democrat, Mr. P. C.' Webbi. statedy that. he was pledged to the bare majority, and would support tlio second reading;, arid move certain amendments in Committee. Another. member .of tho same. party, Mr: J. Payne, said that he supported the 1 bare majority, but 'would not. support the Bill unless tho Pnmo Minister indicated' in replying that he would' bring, down an amendment providing for a bare majority. ■•■■ •''No othor speakers taking the; floor, the Prime Muuster rose to reply just •after-11 p.m. He spoke for loss than a quarter of an hour, and. the House then went to a division, which resulted': For the Bill, 38; against, 36. There.wero two . pairs, and the only member not accounted for'was Mr. E. Newman, who is on his way back from Canada. ' The House rose at 11.24 p.m. :-,•■

, NEEDLESS ALARM, Alarm which would appear to be un.necessary was . expressed by the Leader of the Opposition and Mr, A. M. Myers , in the Houso yesterday, as to the danger of giving a State guarantee to public bodies' loans boing, offered on the London market. The alarm -would seem .to be unnecessary, because a few days ago a return was tabled iii. the House showing that no local body had ever asked for ,a State guaranteo for ' a'loan,. and that consequently no money was raised in London-by local bodies in this May. Sir Joseph Ward and Mr. Myers both suggested that the schemo . would be unfavourably received by financiers in London,, and that, further,it might . lead to a depreciating of the price of 1 our ordinary four per cent, loans, if public bodies' loans with the State guarantee were beirig offered on the London market. . • : The Prime Minister said the proposal to guarantee local bodies' loans in Lontlon was no new'proposal. It had been U'fore the Houso on more than one bccasionj and lie would ask membors of the Opposition; how; many of them .yoteil against it... Sir Joseph Ward:l opposed it. ' Mr. Massey: Did you vote against it? Sir Joseph Ward: I .opposed it, and you .know it. Mr. Massey: Verbal opposition mean's nothing.. ; Had the honourable gontleman the courage to go into tho lobbies and vote against it? In any caise, he continued, not one of these 'State-guar-cinteed loans had reached London up till the present 'time. Tho reason for this must bo satisfactory to the honourable gentlemen—that the 'finances of this country wero so satisfactory that the local bodies had been supplied with nil the money necessary to meet their needs without.boing required to go on to the London market with'a State guarantee behind them. The Hon.. J. Allen, put tho position to Sir Joseph Ward so: If the honourable gentleman thought the proposal Ivas why did he not force a division on tho clause when the Bill was before us last year?' Sir Josoph Ward: I pointed out that 'it was dangerous. Mr. Allen: What's the good of that? iVou can- point tit the moon, but. you won't get it/ He added that ho had no intention ,of allowing the Stateguaranteed local bodies' loans to embarrass the Government's borrowing operations in London

FINANGE AND LOANS. . "A slab from the undelivered speceh which ho prepared for tlio Address-in-fteply"—the description is tho Prime Minister's—was delivered in the House of Representatives, yesterday afternoon by Mr. G. W. Russell. Tlio occasion was the tabling: of a return by tho Finance Minister, which set forth that some million and a quarter sterling had been raised in London otherwise than by public flotation after the issue of the last three and a half million loan. Mr, Russell said 111 effect that because the two-year loan raised by Mr. A. M. Myers had cost £5 Is. Id. per cent, per year, and because Mr. Allen had raised a long-currency loan to repay the Myers loan at a net cost to this country Df £4 '3s-. 3d., therefore lie . sought to show . much credit was duo to Mr. Myers. He asked the Minister why 110 na'd' rnised the money to 'repa.y the ilicrs loan eight months before it was

duo? Mr. Russell also suggested that Hero was something sinister about tho raising of tlio nionoy mentioned in tho return "privately ami surreptitiously." Tho Prime Minister, replying, said that all the monoy raised in London otherwiso than by public flotation was so raised- bv tho authority of. Parliament, and therefore not "surreptitiously," and thai tho Finance Minister had been simply doing his duty in raising money in tlw best market possible, which lio had'dorio by saving tho country underwriting chargos. The argument used by Mr. Russoll about the Myers loan proved simply that tho present Finance Minister had been more successful in his operations-than tho previous Finance Minister. Tho Hon. J, Allen; referring to tho raising of the money to pay off tho Myers loan before it was due, said that tho reason for this was that the Government had to find money fcr the repayment of £9,830,000 for loans falling duo in this year, £8,445,000 in.London. For this reason it. was not safe to delay about the raising of moneys until they were actually due. However, the market had favoured the Government, and tho'money had been invested on such terms that the country would lose nothing in interest. And in tho meantime the Government had been, able to rehabilitate itself both in the confidence of tho London financiers and in the confidence of our own people.

' THE NEW ERA. Speaking .of the , financial operations of the Government tho'Prime Minister said in ,the House yesterday that the Reform . Administration Lad Drought in a. hew era. The fivemillion loan raised by . Sir Joseph Ward in his last ,vear of office had cost the State £4 lis. sd. per cent., the loan raised by Mr. A. M.. Myers: had cost £5 Is: Id. per cent., but Mr. Allen's first loan had cost £4 ss. <kl. per cent., and his last kan £4 3s. 3d. per cent. Replying to tho charge that he .'had not acted upon his previously expressed opinions about extensive borrowing, he said that since ho had made those declarations the outlook for the country had, improved wonderfully. New markets were opening up for our. produce, and great expansion of our. trade was possible. It was therefore not desirable that borrowing for development work should be curtailed. Mr. Hanan:, Where is Reform? Mr. Massey. (indicating tho Government benches): Reform is here, and is likely.to be hero next."fear and for a good many years to come. A PROSPECTIVE RETIREMENT. It is stated on good authority that a member of the Opposition Party, who represents a. South Island country constituency, lias notified Sir . Joseph Ward (Leader of the Opposition) that he does; not see his ivay to stand as an Opposition candidate at'the forthcoming election, and on that account intends to retire at tho end of the present Parliament. • / THE REFERENDUM BILL. Tho Education Committee of tho House> of Representatives has. decided that the hearing of evidence upon petitions which have been presented in reference to the Referendum Bill' shall be opon to the Press. On Friday next the Committee will hear Bishop Cleary and he will be followed by-representa-tives of the National Schools League and tho Bible-iu-Sohools League, and if necessary the hearing of evidence will he continued on the following Friday. On Wednesday, July 29, the Committee will bo prepared to' hear evidence on the Education Bill; ftom representatives of educational bodies who may wish to bo heard. , UNRESERVED ACCEPTANCE. ■ During tho debate on the Licensing Bill iii 'the House of Representatives last'night, Sir Joseph Ward made a statement to the effect that after the last election, and before the second ballot, lie was approached and could bo' give a guarantee that supporters of his who were in favour of tho threefifths majority would vote for the 55 per cent, clause if returned. Ho had replied that he could not ask any mail to change his public pledge. He .wanted to ask tho Prime Minister whether ho made any promise botween the first and tho second ballot of tho last general election ? Mr. Massey : My answer is, "Certainly not." ■■ Sir. Joseph Ward: I accept the right bon. member's answer. ' Sir, Massey: Do you want it any more emphatic than thatp ' Sir Joseph Ward: I am going to accept that. I am not going to give any confidences, and, I win let it stand at that.. Later in the debate the Hon. W. Fraser.'referred _to Sir Joseph Ward's answer, and said that. the. latter had said ho was not going to disclose any, confidences. Sir Joseph Ward": No, I did not. ■ Members: Yes, you did. Mr: Massey: If the hon. member referred to mo, ' he can use any confidences he likes.' Mr. Fraser: That expression was used. When a member makes a statement and_ another member denies it, that denial must be • accepted unre•servedly. . • . • ... Sir Josoph Waid: I accepted it'absolutely. Mr. Fraser: I amgiad to hear it. My only reason for referring to it was to give the hon. member an opportunity of accepting it unreservedly. "QUITE DEAD." "Dead! /Tho Bill is quite dead," said cue of the keenest and most activo supporters of the Licensing Bill after tho division last night. "Always has been dead,", remarked another who had voted for the Bill.; "It has no chance of getting through." By an obvious typographical error, "a paragraph relating to importations of Austrian wine, which waspublished in this column yesterday, was made to refer instead to Australian wine, . and thereby becamo misleading.