ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2190, 1 July 1914, Page 8

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

. ' « '" ■ - MOTION.:, : VIGOROUS SPEECH BY SIR. J. G. WARD SCATHING REPLY BY HON. ' ' JAS. ALLEN. T fRl?l? A T TWTGT&I7TGTIQ EXPOSED TO TtfE FULL LIGHT OF DAY.

.THE COUNCIL /•The? Legislative- Council mbti; at. 2.3 C. p.m. i,i V:• " ThdfHon. H r "D. BELL introduced the I&M>' Amendment Bill, the Legislative Coujicil Bill, ,Md (the Master and Apprentice/Ataendnient Bill. - •The- Bilk 'werfc"ikad'*a': flrst;'time. The. second reading of the Legislative. Council Bill,was set .down for Tuesday next. .THE ADDRESS-IN-REPLY. ;■ . MOVED BY HON. J. BARR. " • > LABOUR PROBLEMS DISCUSSED. The Hon.'. J. BARE moved the Ad-dress-ih-Eeply.' Ho ' desired to • quote from a speech made by,-the Hot. J: Diithie a *y?dr'..ago','--ih .which''hd 5 said iio would cxpresS'his own/opinions, and , not. those, of ,the Government ,which had; done .lii'm tho honour to 'elect' him. He .^i^VtQ.?tske''-ii^^ho ? aiiti* tutlo.; Tho Speech,'unfortunately, likV 5110' st others lieaird for years piist,-con-tained expressions of regret at • the' taassing away 'of' ''William' flussell, and Mr; G;'Laure'ns'on. He ivouldliko to deal with the portion of iho Speech dealing with the prosperity, of. tho. Dominion; It was a fact that Bihcb 1909 the Dominion,' if they took the'affairs as a whole, had been prospering. It was unfortunate that they wore conversant'with;,the-' .fact' 'that there was a considerable amount of destitution and .want at this season of the year.- This was-recurring.year by year, despite the prosperity of the Dominion. It was due to many facts —the drift to the, cities at • this' time of the year; less work for the workers, etc. It was romarkable that in spite of this recurrence, and in spite' of the -prosperity, monetary and otherwise, no forecast was A the. Speech, to ' deal- with the problem. • It had been dealt with time and again-in the Council. Even pallia- ' tives to tido over tlio period of winter had been suggested.. . ' •The Casual Worker. There appeared to bo an intention to wq.it .omtil the feeling was i such as to force the, hand of tho Government in power to do something. Within the last fow } days a, .ship,had 'arrived with 150/ immigrants, of whofli 58 were assisted-•by-.'-the-'iGoverjilneiit'.; ,v There was hardly i.a'ship' 1 arriving without "a 1 considerable number-'of:the'cfew'stay-i®".'htir6'and adding!'to''the ranks' of .9~t^( iski 1 ledTl a^j.o'lir;' J .If'.a, prb'per s y.s--•l^*-WlfyJtlieroiAyould bo a S J?' I PP?O: oy. .which -no ,person would be assisted at a certain time of the-year, .: unless toigo T !to 'friends who could take ••care of,, them. The Hoii." II.""D';' Bell:'-That is tha case;-"'-".' ->■>> -(•> Coritinuiiig', l the''Hon; Mr, ! Barr said l2«Ur5 c i^ I ?, e S tl ' 0 ,--'??rvants . who. came ml; country - were of. the 'wrong ; sort. They were, entirely iMt'ted 'to the 'wOrk they had;to. d 0... Tho.whole question ot unskilled; labour, deserved' earnest consideration. He had hoped that, some measure- would'ihave been under -consideration for'; helping;'" tliose who '; themseftes., . ho . meant. . by; social' in-' -.dn'dV. unemploybcf,-insurance/ m fiarr t ,?. e 7 ..??£{• .°L, hying, road ..construction, &T ff F : T,? trueti< l»- Specd - T comElotiOfi,. of „ public -tworks .would- nloaso many-people,-'especially: Christchurch, 5® :5 he r,o 'complaints "wore • being Sv 1? ■, T ? "Progress at the Otir.-i Tiraflfel; He thought : that - lriorb pro- : gress.could well, be',made there.. ; A A member: Tho Auckland members : desire to stop it. - Thp. Barr.: We hope- the faovernment does not want to stop it.

,\ SK!.llea.,HosDital,Treatment. . SContinuihgj; hei hospital treatment aitil manilenan'cp, rand the ever-incTea-Smfe--aomandr I'ri'ade 'by ■ tlio public. Skilful attention at tho' hospitals for4hepeopjo required immediate' attention. Tlie .overcrowding \. of hospitals hiva.alsck'to'.boconsidored'.at once Ho criticised ,W;treatment given to a. worker at -t'li© Christclmreh Hospital.; He apparently lost tho use of his .hand for life through.the unskilful attention given.., Jt,.would appear as if too little attention'was', being given to'the hospitals by qualified men/ and 100 much left to apprentices.. , '■, ,J', ■■'. ■:. JA member: I'hat is too s'wocpiiic' a sfotement.

Ahe Hon. Mr. Barr said that he knew of...many cases whore .people refused' to go to tho Hospitals; as they were afraid. .J/ne trouble "was'they, .were not'able to gay the fees charged by, the doctors, perations eombtimes'cqst moro'than a worker would earn inthe.twelvo months. It,required serious cpiisideiation.. Ho had suggested that , the hospitals should be. entirely under Govornnierit control, and the doctors should bo on the same ground a.3 teachers. .Tho Hon. H. D. Bell: Would you pay them salaries, and not fees? The Hon. Mr. Barr: Exactly the same as you treat .teachors. •. Further, he referred to": 'tho ' medical inspection of school children as the first step towards uncommorcialising tho profession. Tho examination had been done in a halting manner, but he hoped in the education reform forecasted that some attention .would bo paid to the matter. Legislative Council story. The Legisln'-.ivo Council Bill, he said, was a story. Apparently they wore to have tho last chapter this session. 'It was'to bo hoped it would he slightly lifferent froni those brought down before, hut there seemed to bo a promiso that it would bo the same. They could hope it would not be too "hidebound,", biit that ( members would be allowed to alter the requiremenjts as suited tho needs of enlightened members He was quoting from a speech made by the Hon.' Mr. Duthie. Ho vis grateful to see an oxtensioh promised of the 6.ystcm of erecting workers' ~ dwellings. That was one way of partly solving tho problem of casual employment.

jacent to cities, tho problem of casual employment would be solved. '■■ . :■ Tho Licensing Laws and the Bible Rending Referendum needed • comment. Ho was willing to lcavo the first' matter till the Bill came down, but thoy'should insert a period beyond which no mbro barmaids should work or be employed. There were plenty of outlets for them. By; setting a date beyond which barmaids should not be employed would eolvo tho present difficulty. Provision should also bo made to prevent a present anomaly. No lad tinder 21 years could 'be .'.served at the bar, but there was nothing'to prevent the lad under 21 years being employed there. A member said, "Remove -the drink," btlt there-were remedies which they could wqrkfor while' striving for the ideal. . The Gauntlet Down. . The 'suggested-'ieferendunr. on Bible-, reading in schools'.'surprised him. ■ Was it not .twelvo. months ago : that they were assured that-their pi-csent system ot. 'education' would remain. Apart 1 from the merits' or demerits of Biblereading, he would do his utmbst'to'defeat such a Bill if it came before them'. A referendum on,a social matter.. was different to a referenduni di oii a'niatter of conscience. Ho , hopedy if tho Bill came to ! the. Council, tliey- ■ would- be ablo to throw it out in a very , emphatic manner. They wore aware that mauy teachers had suffered with school committees through religiouß . differences. It was said that only a referendum of the people --.was desired.- It-was the thin edgo.of the wedge to a period of cursed tyranny which , was likely to coma on them if it over became established in this country! ' Ho merely wanted to say that, as far as he was concerned, the people. responsible for throwing down the gauntlet 'in tho mattor would find many people who previously had not interfered up in arms against the proposal. ■•■ • .;••' Something for tho Worker. In conclusion, the Hon. Mr. Barr regretted that.no indication had bceir Kiveu of amendment to tho Industrial (Jonciliatiou and Arbitration Act. Many associations had coiisiderabledifficulty in. getting a Dominion award. It' was absolutely necessary: ' some amendment should be made to make it easier for them' to get'such in award. A simple amondmcut would get over the diiliculty. If the Act was not to be dealt with as a whole, the principle difficulties : should bo considered in a special Bill. ' He also noticed that somethinß was to bo done in connection : with Public.;. Service superannuation. Ho was pleased to'seo that, but what about , 'the public servant who was not employed by f the Government. "What superaunuatioii was there for him? €[o would bo .toldpthore was the Provident Fund, biif tliat was not taken advantage, of. , .Was it not time that something was .dprje for the worker. ■ It was coming, to be tho caso that nothing was to bo done for any but tho public servant employed by the Government. Somo social' legislation had to be made for the workeh Some local ■bodies .'saw 'ti/iway out of the difficulty by a'small; amendment to the National Provident Fund, whereby tho local bodies,, tho contributor, and responsibly 'ior; thoso -in' their * employ. There'was/ 1 r.Qojh for creatirig.'a social insurance scheme, through- tho National Provident Fund. Anomalies existed in it-'at present which had prevented many people from taking advantage of its provisions. The , pnnciole of the measure was absolutely sound. : ■_ : Hon. c. A. C. Hardy Seconds the '■ ' '•' Motion. . : Tlio Hon! C. A. C. ILVRDY seconded tho -motion. He congratulated the Hon. Mr. Barr on tho very excelleni manner in which ho had moved the Address-ih-Reply. Referring to the complaint of the Christchurch pcoplo .that the Otira Tunnel was not being proceeded with, ho could say it was ■known'that- Christchurch was a place of "fads and faddists." He knew perfectly'well tho work was being proceeded with, and ivould bo carried on. "When".the- line was opened, thousands and thousands' of tons of coal .would bo , ■ <aken'' to Canterbury on it. He took exception to the Hon. Mr. Barr's remarks ontlie hospitals. Ho thought that their hospital system now was being brought to a high standard, and tho institutions were well managed and organised. Tho Speech read by His Excellency was a very well-drawn one. Tho.high cost of land he deplored,.and the tendency to sell out and exchange farms. Ho would guarantee that every farm in Taranaki.was. on. the market at tho' present day. ; .They ehould encourage the .people ; to stay.. on their farms.' The continual changing of land by exchange, was ono of the worst ey-stoms over introduced into Now Zealand. I ' , . . "■■■'' ;v : . •'..''

He wanted to Tefer to the strike of last year. It was an old' subject.' •He sympathised with tho men drawn into it. "They had pho agitators-then, .and ho wished they had hung every one of them. Tlio men from tho country, took the matter up in a firm way, and camo down, not to fight, but to prcscrvo tho commerce of New Zealand. He hoped a atriko would never again visit N«w Zealand.

fTlio Hon.JMr.' Bell: And the cost of living, 'i-'y , '- '-, ■■ .:■■■. . ■■ ;Tlie Hon. Mr; Barr: Certainly. ..When, the worker-was" provided"with his own , hdmo (and they should. have as much lanij as,possible attached), they could tide over periods of idleness. If they jould get'suitable agricultural land ad-

The cost of living wa3 another matter. It was not so much the cost of Jiving a« the piano of living. That was higher. When they wero ready to moderate their plane of living more in accordance with tlieir earning power, so soon would tho cost of living come down. Everyone seemed anxious to live a little beyond his neighbour. ' ' . Tho Government .Congratulated. The Hon. Mr. Hnrdy congratulated the Government on their administration of the defenco scheme of the country. While he did not think the scheme was perfect in all its details, it had many points to commend it, and the work was being well carried out. The youths needed discipline, and if they wero taught this they would become second to none in the world. He liked the defenco scheme because it had created a love of country, and created security. Ho congratulated the Government on tho appointment of tho General Manager of Railways, and on the setting up of the Board of Agriculture. He did not think' the school teachers were badly treated, hut ho saw danger in interfering with the present system of secular education. It was wrong to say there was no religion in

tho present school books. Regarding the licensing laws, he thought' Prohibition had been a failure, in that it did not prohibit. Hβ believed every person should join hands to drive out tho drink, but he did Jiot think Prohibition' prohibited. Ho thought that tho Government were honest in tho proposals outlined in the- Speech, and would use every endeavour to get tliom carried into force. (Applause.) Nothing for Labour? Tho Hon. J. BIGG thought the Speech remarkably weak, when looked at'from tho Labour point of view. Tho extension of -workers' dwellings and the acquirement of land for tho purpose was good, but apart from that, ana a proposal relating to apprentices, there was nothing done for Labour. A scheme of unemployed insurance would do a great amount of good. Ho took exception to the Hon. Mr. Hardy's statement that he would have liked to have seen all the strike agitators hung. By agitator's he took it the' member was referring to the strike leaders. He be--, lieved the Hon. Mr. Hardy was speak-' ing in an excited manner when he inado the reference'to-hanging. A member: He did not mean that.

Tho Hon. Mr.- Rigg' said that there .were eomo, aspects of the strike which had not yet been placed before the people.of New. Zealand. When they were, the public might change their views with regard to the strikers. Some of thorn were men who could be respected, but, carried away by their own excitement, they made statements which did nioro l'arm than good to their movement. (Hoar, hear.) They had had muchthe same exhibition that afternoon. • . Council Reform. He was sorry to see the Legislative Council liill appearing again. It it was carried it meant that the Bill would not come into operation till, next year. In the meantime- the Council -would bo brought lip to its full . numerical strength. During the next three years only-nine members would nave to be elected. -.-. - ,

.ThoHon. H. D. Bell: There would bo twenty, to bo elected at the first election, whatever the number of the Council at the time. '.The election would not take- place until the election of 1917.

Mr. Bigg said that he could not -understand why the Government were pressing tlie Bill when they were filling up tho vacancies. The Hon. Mr. Bell: They have to appoint sufficient to carry, tlie Bill. _ The Hon. Mr. Itigg: On the face of it, it looks as if, the Government; were taking advantage Of their position, and making it exceedingly difficult for any future Government to' have a majority in .the Council. He contended that only oho member was necessary to'.eusure tla. passing of the Bill. With regard to the referendum on tho Bible-reading iii schools; ho said that be would nover give his vote to an occasional referendum' to deal ivith such a question. Ho would prefer the Government to stand firm on the question, and say they would have'llo tampering with tho 'present system' of education; Ho would riot w much object'td tho reading of the Bible in the schools, if it was read without comment, for it was. a Book that everyone ought to read. Ho trusted.when the Biblo came before the Council thej; would follow tho 'samo course as they .'>dopted when%Mr. Seddon's Referenduni Bill came . .before them, with-regard to the Legislative Council. That -was rejected again and again. He believed' a Labour Government would be the only one to solve the problems facing 'the country. More Progressive Programme. ' The Hon. ' J B, ' JISNKINSON thought that a much more progressive programme could have been laid down than was forecasted by'the ■.Speech. Hβ did not desire to say much with re'gard to the. proposals of the Speech, but would-rcfcr to tho period of twentyone years : during which he had boon connected with .tho Council. Tho legislation introduced during that period was of auclr a character that nono could be ashamed of "it. The experimental legislation had proved, in most cases, a success. Tho Labour legislation had not been all that could bo desired, bilt he claimed that, to a great extent, it- had been successful. .The Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act had done much good, but needed certain, amendments, which he urged should bo introduced, so as to carry out the ends aimed at -when the Bill was introduced. ' It was a question whether it would not bp better to appoint three business men in place of the Judge on the Court. A simpler method was also necessary to enable a Dominion award to bo granted to workers in any industry. • The Piano of Living. He deprecated the Hon. Mr. Hardy's views that tho plane of living was too high. Education had Taisod tho piano of life, and would anyone say that they should go back to tho standard of twenty-five years ago?. The apprenticeship difficulty was ono that needed consideration. We're their secondary in-dustries-to languish, because- there wero not enough young'men educated to carry them on?. The question of superannuation was one which needed investigation. Some of tho men got less than, they paid into the fund. There was also-the question whether £300 por year was not too much superannuation lor any one man. He instanced the caso of the outside man who retired without any superannuation. Yet that man was paying largely towards the superannuation of the' Government worker, for a. large sum was paid out of the Consolidated Fund to bolster the superannuation up.

Tho Hon. Mr. Bell: You said that the worker does not get as much out of the fund as he- puts in. Ho must get moro if money is required to bolster up the fund. The Hon. Mr. Jenkinson said that some of the • higber-salaricd men : received a great deal more. Sorrto proposal would have to be evolved so that Iho outside worker would get considera; tion. • Ho- deplored any proposal to have an elective Council. Ho would sooner seo the Council abolished.

Tlie Hon. G. JONES continued the debate, and dwelt on the good qualities of the retiring members ot the Council. They had done good work, and he did not see why they should be deprived of their seats. They should be allowed to retain the titlo of "honourable," for they had been honourable indeed. (Hear, hear.) There was no compensation for men who had grown old 111 the ecrvice of the country. Tho miserable pittance of £200 a year almost made him ashamed when 'lie thought of it. Now was the time for the Government to show sqmo appreciation of long ser-' vice,, and provido a pension for retiring legislators. . . . i .The Council , jose at 9.50 p.m. till 2.30 p.m. to-day.