UNIONS AND LAW.

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2144, 9 May 1914, Page 6

UNIONS AND LAW.

—-4 —— > REFORM ACTS ASSAILED. SOME NOVEL PROPOSALS. REMITS FROM A CONFERENCE. 1 MR. MASSEY INTERVIEWED." Representatives of the Arbitration ■Unions'' Qonferenco which met recently in Wellington' waited yesterday as a deputation upon tho Right Hon. W. F. Massey, (Prime Minister and Minister of Labour). It will bo remembered that out of this conference arose a proposal Jxi hold a Labour Congress in July next, uuder the. auspices. 'of tho Federation of Labour. .' The deputation was introduced by-Mr. A. H. Hindmarsh, M.P. Mr. F. W. Rowley (Secretary of Labour) attended. ...... Mr. J. Road (secretary of the En-gine-drivers' Union ■ and Federation) was tho principal spokesman. Ho .said that tho deputation represented a conference,, held just after tho Easter holidays, which: was .attended by represen-." tatives of approximately eighty unions. Ho continued that tho conference djscussed matters''concerning unions registered under the Act. In tho first place,' 1 tho conference had drawn up a set of - "principles" expressing the views of delegates ■ with regard to any legislation.,p.ortaining .to .Their .fiijsfc. . submission was: "That registration arid 'cancellation under the Arbitration Act must bo of an entirely voluntary nature by bona-fide workors in the industry." Number two was: "That where a union decidos by a majority vote, as, required hy the Act, to cancel its registration, it . shall not lose its legal , status thereby, and it shall not be competent for that union, or any other.,union in, . the same industry in tho' same locality to be registered withou&.the-.consont of r majority of .thoimembers'bf the said union;" • • ~ . i, 1 Legal. Status.. ■ Mr. Massey asked ,what was meant by "not lose its' status." . Mr. Read said they' claimed that this' would provide for tho : alteration' made by tho -Labour Disputes Investigation ■Act,'. ; ■ ■ ■ Mr. Massey The ". Labour; Disputes 'Aet has'nothing to r do-with 'Arbitration, unions; " 1 " ■ '''' . • Mr: Read said that_ previously a' union cancelling its ■ registration' would .havo had a legal ;status. under the 'Trades'Union-Act. .•» ' • Mr. Massey: You suggest that? if a union should cancel'its registration under.tlio Arbitration Act no other, union' should bo allowed • to; register, without tho consent of a-majority .of tho members of'the u"nion..w'hibh. has", just, cancelled "its' registration ?' Mr. Read: That is practically, the proposal.' . ' ; Mr. Massey : Don't you think that is •unreasonable? ;' : ;V Mr. Read: No. . It is a case of governing hy inajqfity. riile. If a majority of workors in an industry say they qre not.going to register .under the Act ' ' Mr. Massey: It .is all tight up to .that point, but I think you are going too far, when you suggest that no other set of mon shonld havo tho right to register without tho consent of 'the men > who have decided..to. cancel registration. . , Mr. Read: We contend that there should 1)0 one union in an; industry. You aro contending that there should bo two, one trades union and an Arbitration union. After somo further talk, tlio-Prim© Minister said they might agreo to differ on this point. Mr. Massey said that when a union had cancelled its registration it. still had a right to take advantage of the Trades Union Act. The Right tb Work, * Mr. Read said vhis experience had, been' that where union members had voluntarily taken this course otheg unions had been formed notwithstanding tho fact, "which he thought could be proved, that'.a majority of tho workers .concerned were opposed to the formation of tho second union. Another proposal from tho'conference was: "It' shall not .bo competent for. any union to refuse membership to any worker employed or' desiring to bo . employed in tho industry covered by tho union." This, Mr. Read stated, covered certain matters which had como to light during tho last few : months particularly with regard to tlie Waterside Workers' Union in Auckland. He had been in- I formed _ on fairly good authority that this union, formed during tho recent industrial trouble,. absolutely refused membership to ihen who had been en-; gaged for years in tho occupation of waterside workers. Mr. Massey : You mean tho new union? • • 1 Mr. Read] The one formed while the fitriko was on. Even now it refuses' certain men the right, to, join. Mr. Massey: On what ground? Mr. Read: No matter what ground Mr. Massey^You don't dispute the qualification with regard to good conduct? ... , , ' Mr. R-eadli It is a piatter of livelihood. A man has to ! hve, an'd if he is refused the;,riglit to obtain work,and prevented from''earning d,livelihood, it' is absolutely Hin just. Air. Massey i Do you say that a union should not have the. right to discriminate' with regard to'character? A Mr. Read: A man must'live; if society, is going to say-— ' • • ■Mr. Massey; That is not tin answer to' my question.. ' . , f Mr. Readt It is," rath'er 'itii' awkward Question, t-o put t<y a"man;'' Mr. Massey: Ail Tight, I won't put it. Mr. Read: If a man has a right to obtain a livelihood, I contend that no ■>ne should havo the right to prevent him from having freo access to employment. That-is what ho is depending on, and no union or other body should havo the Tight to prevent-his-obtaining-em-ployment. — The Labour Disputes Act. 'Anotiior resolution of tho conference, Mr. Read stated, was; "That tho Labour. Disputes Investigation Act, 1913, is a most pernicious measure, subversive of tho principles laid down by tho Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act sinco its inception,.and the,,conference insists upon its repeal." The conference had also passed a similar condemnation upon tho Police Offences Amendment Act, 1913. Delegates considered that in times, when many of the 'workers 'wero fairly well educated, Government' must rest'to a groat .extent on the consent of tho governed, and that if laws wero passed .in dircct opposition to the wishes of the workers, then there was an excuse ii fchete laws should be broken. So far as the conference knew there was not one union in the whole of Now Zealand ■which waa in favour ofClauso 6 in the Arbitration Bill. Yet" it was embodied in tho Labour Disputes Investigation Bill and placed upon the Statute Book in direct opposition to the wishes ol Labour throughout the . whole of New Zealand. In case this law should bt broken, they desired that it lie placet oil record that Labour had protested Against it iu tho first place, and had m ■ say in regard to its being placed on tin Statute Book. Now they asked that tin law should bo repealed. Peaceful Picketing. The same applied to tho clauses ii tho Police, Offences Act relating to pick oting. They claimed that tho right U ongaga in peaceful picketing should b

conceded hero as it was uuder British law. It was claimed that tho Dominion was in advance of Great Britain in many respects, but in this .important respect Now Zealand seemed to have moved in a retrograde direction. Another remit from the conference was: "That no unions shall agreo to or appoint anyono to sign- any industrial agreement until a special nieoting of the union , has been called, and a ballot of the union taken, as laid down in the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration 'Act,'-1908." This provision, Mr. Read staged, had been broken in several in6Vancos wjiero agreements had been made by a few individuals calling themselves; tho executivo of a union, thus controlling hundreds of men, in some cases, without their being consulted. Mr. Massey: A union appoints" its own executive. •» ' Mr. Read: No. 'Mr; Massey : That' is the theory at any rato. Can you give me some instance of improper action? The union appoints the executive, and the execu- ' tive nets for the union. Now you come along and! say the executivo is not to act for: the union.' What is the position? ; ■ * Mr. Read said that members of a union executive were sometimes not acquainted with tho details embodied in agreements. . For instance, probably somo members of tho Wellington Wharf Labourers' Union executive had never been employed on somo kinds of work oil tho wharf. Yet they had, ho believed, drawn up an agreement with the employers. ' The conference Which he represented claimed that the men actually engaged in wol'k should' havo. a direct voice in the making of agreements "covering their employment. Another conference remit was: "That the registration of any union or its rules •should-be subject to appeal to the Arbitration, Court'." ' ' Mr.. Massey: I may say that .was in my Bill of, last year. > Awards and Exemptions. Mr. Head -quoted' another resolution: "That" no person or a corporate body shall be exempt from-becoming parties to an industrial, dispute, nor shall they . -be exempted from the provisions of "an ' industrial agreement'or award of the Arbitration' C6urt,"- The Engine-drivers*-Federation, Mr;, Read 6tated', had'suffered severely under' the exemption provision. Giving his last award, at Wanganui, Mr. Justice Sim had declined/ to make tho award apply-.to enginedrivers engaged in the timber industry, though most of ; tliesc -.workers wero members of the Engine-drivers' Federation. The Court, they .contended, should not liavo power to exempt parties under any award., '• Strikes, arid. Lock-outs. % Mr. A, Parlane (secretary of the Drivers' Union) advocated a change, -in .the law .relating to lock-outs. Under the Arbitration Act, ho •' , said a strike was defined as the breaking '/ of a. contract of service by men with' tho intention of compelling employers to agree to certain terms.. A lock out was defined, as the closingdown of a business by an. employer with the intention of compelling workers to accept certain terms. Very, few employers closed down their business, though a great many 1 dismissed large numbers of their men. He. urged that a lock-out should bo defined as . the dismissal of any employees with. t' e in r tention of compelling'them to agree to certain .terms and conditions. It. was almost, impossible to get . a conviction against an employer as. the' Act, stood .at present,'and he did not think any employer had - ever ' been convicted, of locking his. men out., The alteration lie proposed. would make tho Act fair . to both sides. . Mr. Massey pointed, out,, that as. the: law stood an employer might be guilty of a lock-out-if lie closed his business "or any branch thereof." Was not this sufficient? . 1 Mr. Parlane said it wis hot.- Employers might dismiss. largo numbers of men in ord<?r,to bring pressure to bear, but look round and get a sufficient numbed of men to,keep their businesses going. When the new Drivers' Union 'was formed in Wellington, employers made it a condition of employment that men should join the new union. A man had been dismissed because ho declined to accede to this demand. Ho (Mr. Parlane) claimed that this was a lock-out.-Mr. Massey:' You-think that if an employer makes. a condition that his men must join a "registered union that is a lock-out ? Mr. Parlane: Yes, if tho men aio in a, union, and have complied with tho law. The drivers he had mentioned were already unionists. Unless tho law wore altered, employers could impose any conditions without becoming subject to penalties., ■ Sittings of the Court. Mr. Read advocated a number of . minor , alterations in industrial legisla- ' tion. and also urged that the Arbitration .Court should sit once in two . months, in the principal , centres. Another proposal was that an advertisement in local papers and a notification in tho "Gazette" should be sufficient .notification to employers and -workers ' concerned in a dispute as to incidental proceedings; It was further asked that in certain occupations, such as shearing, a union should ho permitted to register, as a! union for tho whole Dominion. ■ ' Political Action. ! Still another proposal was that a 1; union should be permitted to engage in political action; subject to Uho control of a ballot of its members. : I ■ Mr. Massey: What does political ac- ■ tion mean? 3 Does-it mean the expenditure of funds? ' fi •* Mr. Read: Necessarily so. A related 1 proposal was that unions might give r financial assistance to candidates if a majority Members'so desired, i Ho-submitted that Labonr-aspirations would thus bo afforded a legitimate out- • let, and further that the' funds of a 0 corporate body were'no longer to be re- ® garded as individual property. Scime k union might desiro to support tho Rc- " form Party. > • Mr.-Massey: Quite likely. 0 Mr. Read: And some members of the union' might bo Social Democrats. Mr. Massey: Quite likely. Do you think' it would bo fair that the money these- Social Democrat? have provided i, should bo used to support the Reform i* Party? !) Mi'- Read said ho thought it fair that 0 a majority should decide the matter. t- Other requests put forward were that 1 no piece-worker should bo paid less, than ho would, earn at day wage's, and that l- the Widows'.-Pensions -Act should. hA so i- amended a$ not to exclude any widow ! s from benefits who was not resident in i- New Zealand before the Act was passed, n Mr. , Massey said he thought that the II latter provision had .been made in the a Pensions Act of last session. n Royal Commission Proposed. ■c ' Mr. Andrew Collins said that the conference which tho deputation ropresentl9 ed had been held practically outside the j Federation of Labour. He urged that a [0 Royal Commission should be-set up tc |( j inquire exhaustively into the subject of in prosecutions under the Arbitration Act I during the last seven years. Ho contended that at present infractions of the w Act were 'a paying proposition to the employe*, since back pay (where less 1( ] than tho len;al rate had been paid) could J( j only bo collected in rosncct of a period ' of three months. The whole of tho bac!< pay should be collected and if nccessarj the balance not paid- to the employer 0 should bo paid into tho Consolidated Fund. Mr. R. Simpson protested against, tin admission of a third party in industn'a | n disputes. Judge Sirri had 1 laid it down he said, that the only narties to a disputo were. employers and employees, nnr be this attitude should ho maintained. H<

I asserted that employers frequently in- [ trigued with a view to playing off one set of workers against another. Tho Truo Third Party. Mr. Massey said that tlio third party „ referred to in one casb which Mr. Simp- I son had mentioned was the general public. A dispute between timber workers , and millers was settled on the basis of raising the price of timber. On this occasion it was out that tho public had 110 say in tho arrangement between the two parties, although tho public generally, including tho ivorking class, would havo to pay tho piper. „ ' Mr. Simpson emphasised tho hard- 0 ships which arose fropi excluding certain men from unions, and'said that ho did j not think a- man should bo called upon to produco credentials justifying his ad- s mission. c ■ Air. A, A. Agnew, of tho Building Trade Labourers' Union, said that some- s thing should be done in regard to the j character, of _ mc'.i admitted to unions? ( ; On tho Wellington wharves at present ] somo men who had served terms of im- a prisonment and had police records were q getting preference over nieii whoso re- c corns wero clean. • He protested against J the clauses in the Arbitration Act which q imposei penjtflties upon tlioso who ren. j der assistance to strikers. Mr. Agnew c sfa,ted that tho conference whicli they j represented was not a ''Red Fed" gath- t enng, although thero happened to bo ] about threo "Red Feds" attending it. i 111 tho main tho conference was attend- r e'd by delegates from Arbitration unions i v/i'ich had worked under the Act for s years and' long' befoj-e tho Federation 1 was thought of. t A FIRM REPLY, ; '' '• . * LABOUR DISPUTES ACT DE- l • FENDED. The Prime .Minister ,said that he was 1 very pleased ■to have heard the reprementations of the . deputation. It was t quite impossible for him to go'there and i then info all tho propoSals they had 1 made. While he' might not agree with 1 all the contentions they had raised,. < ■.thero was no reason why he should not * hear both sides and look at both sides. ] "You have referred to the Labour Disputes Investigation ~Act," ho continued, ' Valid ,have ;asked that it should bo re- ' pealed. Your spokesman gavo practically no reasons for that contention. (Smiling protests from the deputation,) s I fail to, see why yo.u should object to I that Act. It dots not apply to Arbi- t tration unions; it applies to these that 1 are'outside the Act.'. 'I'do not objcct, t of coursoi to- your- expressing an opin- 1 ion. The: Act applies-to unions of £ employees and employers ' and riot only . to: strikes, but to lockKiuts. When 1 either, a strikc.'or a lockout is intended ( a;- certain' number of days' notice must ' be given to -the. Minister beforo - tho ' strike or lbck-oiit takes place. Then < tho, Minister may refer tlio matter to 1 tho Conciliation Commissioner, or may < set up a Labour Disputes Investigation 1 Committee consisting of representatives 1 of both sides of the question. In cases ' of inability to settle- tho dispute a so- < eret ballot of members of tho union, j or of employers, is taken.' Then if a j strike or lock-out, as the case may be, { is decided upon, it is not illegal.' 1 i have quito made up my mind that tho 1 Acp should be given a trial. As to your ' remark :that it was not supported by a 1 majority . J Mr. Read: I did not,say that. I said ' that not ono union in New Zealand, so 1 far as the conference knew, was favourable to tho Labour Disputes Investigation Act. Mr. Massey said that thero were 59 members in tho .House when , tho Bill was passed., Those' who voted for it numbered 54 and thero were four votes ; against it. Tlio remaining member, was tho Speaker of the House. * A deputationist: You havo learned us a valuable lesson; ' Mr. Massey; said that lie had no intention of going' back on tho Labour Disputes Act, and, though ho did not want tho opportunity, if tho opportunity came tho Act would ho administered. ■ Tho members who voted against it wero: Messrs. Hindmarsh, Parata, Robortson, and Wobb. Ho assumed .that there wero other members in tho House' interested in-labour legislation, but they all. voted for it. Finally Mr. Massey said that he would consider the various proposals advanced, and it was quite likely that h& would give effect to ■somp of them in the Labour'Bill which ho intended to bring down during the' coming session. .